I'm shocked more people aren't already better prepared for this, but it's actually the same thing we should be doing now, and continue to do if Biden actually wins:
Organize locally. Get hyperlocal. Organize your city, neighbors, block, building, workplace, and friend group. Establish mutual aid networks, take back city councils, county boards, and school boards from the stewards of landlords and big employers.
Establish protection for those who need it, and plant the crop of future national leaders who will do the long overdue work of putting government to work for the masses. Make it harder for any president or governor to exercise state violence by getting our people in prosecutors offices and judgeships.
The Democrats are not going to save us. Biden is just planning to go down with the ship. Absolutely vote for the lesser of two evils if you live somewhere where your vote matters, but recognize that the Democratic party is not an ally to the antifascist movement, because combating fascism conflicts with the interests of capital.
That can change, but until it does, don't put faith in them. Anything positive they do will be because power-players were replaced. And that starts in your own neighborhood.
Edit: Since this has been well received, I want to say a quick word on third parties: don't be afraid of them.
Without getting into a lot of details, there are a lot of myths about the risks that third parties present, but before we parrot all of that, we should just acknowledge that there is no harm in listening to their platforms. It doesn't make you a kook to hear ideas that often get suppressed by the mainstream, or to use third parties as a way to network and meet people. I think Jill Stein has a lot of useful things to say, and if a pollster asks me, I will gladly try to bump her numbers up so that she is harder to ignore. Don't be afraid to do that.
This is good, and I'm piggybacking so I can add on:
Get a passport, make friends in another country.
Vote to slow them down, yell at anyone who tries to say that it's better to not vote or that Trump would be better for Palestinians.
If you want to engage in electoral reform, you need to start years in advance.
If you live in Texas: Vote for Biden and encourage GOP voters to not vote for Trump. If you're in a place with lots of GOP weirdos, try publicly and loudly watch his rallies at 1.5x speed; I've heard it breaks the spell b/c his cadence gets disrupted. If Texas goes blue, Biden wins and all the DNC voters suddenly know they can win, making it immediately more likely.
If all else fails, remember someone might [Comment Cannot Legally Be Finished], which would solve multiple problems.
Texas was won by fewer than 633k votes. Considering Trump's popularity I'd say it's ripe for flipping but we can't lay down on the job. Also the GOP policies are pushing out liberals and people that are vulnerable (LGBTQ+ and families with LGBTQ+ kids) so the window is closing.
Think it's worth mentioning that U.S. politics sets the tone of politics in a lot of the west. When Trump won, the alt-right parties in more or less all of Europe grew significantly. Here in Sweden over the span of the almost 8 years since, our nazi party grew from a smaller party that the right wingers argued whether or not they should collaborate with in order to create a right-wing coalition and win majority, to the second largest party in Sweden.
This is for everyone that is taking the "oh well" stance... or the I'm going to wait it out stance... If you are unfamiliar with what the Republicans plan to do, I encourage you to look at the Project 2025 plan.
Some highlights
slash funding for the DOJ
dismantle the FBI
decimate environmental and climate change regulations in favor of fossil fuels
eliminate the department of commerce
ending the independence of multiple federal agencies
abolish the department of education
scientific funding would be limited to pro-conservative principles
end abortion nationwide
infuse government with Christianity
criminalize pornography
removing protections against discrimination for sexual or gender identity
terminating diversity, equity and inclusion programs and affirmative action
the military would be used for domestic law enforcement
the arrest and detention of undocumented immigrants
speedy capital punishment
Project director Paul Dans, a former Trump administration official, explained that Project 2025 is "systematically preparing to march into office and bring a new army, aligned, trained, and essentially weaponized conservatives ready to do battle against the deep state."
So, for fucks sake, can we stop saying that we can wait out Trump for another term. There won't be an America left if there is another term.
This sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan from the perspective of a conservative. Criminalize porn so people have to take the urges out elsewhere, criminalize abortions so rape victims have to give birth, and slash social services and education funding to create the next generation of uninformed, emotionally-driven voters.
Swede here, we just joined NATO and this shit terrifies me, and what is worse is that this is what people are saying publicly, how far will they go in practice?
Nah, I doubt they'll manage what they say. Some maybe, and shit'll suck no doubt, but there's a lot of inertia in the bureaucracy. My real worry is what the CCP & Russia will do once they have a green light that the US won't intervene in their expansionist ideals.
The non-voters don’t care. The ones that actually subscribe to the ignorant narrative of single issue protesting are too stubborn to admit they’re wrong. And the rest of them are right-wing/Russian propagandists.
Basically, what you shared is what either of the aforementioned will use as a platform to bolster their effort to sell everyone on their bullshit ideology.
I think they do care, they've just been taught that their vote doesn't matter. This seems to be especially true of non-white people i talk to. How can we encourage people to engage? A meme or a list of concerns is not going to change their mindset when they've been manipulated into generations of apathetic resistance.
What am I supposed to do then. I tried voting progressive and Democrat, I tried organizing, I tried donating and fund raising, I tried at the local level.
And every step of the way the Democrats have gone out of their way to help move the goal posts to the point that my choices for a school board member we're someone openly racist or someone who is openly sexist.
For president I get genocide or fascism... Gee really motivating me there folks.
you get one choice that has shown he can be pressured with reason and public opinion
and one that wants to commit domestic crimes with impunity, that openly wants to have his political enemies killed, and that has shown he can be pressured by Russia. You know, the country that swore to defeat the US from within.
Keep doing what I have been doing - dragging MAGA fence sitters back from the brink one by one. The ones who have adopted Trumpism as their religion are too far gone. But there are a lot who just need to be taken by the hand and shown a better path.
When you see MAGA BS, challenge it with well-reasoned arguments. The object really isn't to change the mind of the poster. It's to prevent them from changing the minds of others.
Yeah, there's a huge difference in tactics depending on whether you're trying to comvince the person you're arguing with, or the audience.
The latter is soo much easier - often it's enough to back them into a corner where they out themselves as wrong whatever they say, and they'll quickly descend into a ball of rage.
Thats what my brother does, but he is a cis het man who works in construction as an electrician. He is very left leaning so he does try to challenge things where he can.
But I can't do that. I am a trans woman and confrontation legitimately would put me in danger and it wouldn't work anyways. People claim I am biased because I am in a group who is being targeted, its bullshit beyond belief but thats how people are.
Can you please give an example of a well reasoned argument that's relevant here?
I'm not sure of the relationship of reason to people that aggressively disregard objective fact and fluidly move the goalpost of their burden of proof.
Look up how to debate. Success is not measured by how bad you make the opponent look. That may work on one person, but you have to repeat it for every person who advances the same argument. Instead, take apart their argument, reveal underlying motives, expose untruths with irrefutable documentation, uncover false logic and bad assumptions, and respond without attacking the messenger.
For instance, "The economy is terrible! Everything is so expensive." Well, stuff -is- expensive. But is the economy really the reason behind it? The US stock indexes are at record highs. Most companies have been beating the expected earnings per share. Isn't it more likely that things are expensive because companies are taking more profit to give to their shareholders? Which candidate do you believe is more inclined to change that?
The object is not to defeat the opponent. It's to prevent others from being convinced by their arguments.
I’m torn on this. I’m “white”-ish enough, no kids, can’t get pregnant (or anyone pregnant) and I’m in the top 10%… so would anything for me fundamentally change? No…. I could stick my head in the sand and ignore it, but that’s really not me and it freaking breaks my heart to see all the people it impacts.
So I see one of three things:
Try to ignore it and keep voting blue and on policies to help those where i can
go one step further and put my money where my mouth is and help run an Underground Railroad for those who need to get to blue states while they still have the rights
flee to another country
I don’t really want to think about it, but it’s been at the back of my head.
As much as I fear what Trump will do to the nation it probably won't have much of an effect on me personally.
I live in a deep red state that's already about as corrupt and authoritarian as it can be, of course that's never really true- but it's not like it's being held up by anything Trump will target. The powers that be and a wide majority of the population are already fully subservient to Trump so it'll just be business as usual here.
I'm middle-aged, own my home, no dependents, all the childhood friends I've had that would be vulnerable already moved away and I have a pretty small circle of family\friends and not really looking to expand. And have a good position that's very insulated from economic and political turbulence. I'm also a cis white male and a gun-owner, I blend pretty seamlessly unless I tell people what I think about state\national politics. And I love the food and nature here. Also I kinda can't imagine job hunting at this point at all, let alone in another state. I'd like to live in a place that better reflected my values but I don't actually think that would help me or anyone else.
I'm established here and I don't really have any incentive to leave. Nobody is coming for me here and me moving to a Blue state won't help anyone there. And my accent has made people react negatively to me in the past and I'm worried I'd actually appear to be more of a fish out of water in those places than I do here, even though that's kinda what I've always been here. I vote, I donate. I used to volunteer but I'm tired now. Weird that I've made such a comfortable home in a viper den but we make lives how and where we can.
I know it's just my privilege to say this but no matter what happens in 2024 my life will be pretty much the same for the foreseeable future. Intellectually I worry a lot about the fate of the nation and humanity but personally I worry more about collapsing global trade and infrastructure fucking up supply chains and creating civil unrest that will effect me personally. But idk what to do about that but worry so I guess why worry...
Step one: Buy a few firearms, for different scenarios (which should be easier under Trump sigh)
Step two: Go to work, home, and limit unnecessary errands, order for delivery more.
Step three: Practice marksmanship with various firearms. I have a country, but sane, friend of the family with a shooting range on her land.
Step four: Hunker down in my deep red state, because I hold non-christian belief's and I won't recant them on pain of death. Not because my beliefs "protect" me, but because as an American, I believe in freedom of religion and I'll die a proud American before I die as a Christian, my belief's don't matter compared to that. The protection of those belief's does.
Spend a solid week posting screenshots of my comments on this platform about how the DNC is digging their own grave after they inevitably blame the voters for their loss just like in 2016.
I guess "get fucked", realistically speaking. I can't afford to leave on my own, my social life is empty of anyone else I can depend on, and I will almost certainly have a target on my back as a gay guy -- after they're done with trans people, we'll probably be next.
The only family I have supporting me right now doesn't want to leave the country and can't provide meaningful support from afar, meaning I have to stay here. And staying during a second Trump term could be dangerous very quickly indeed if I'm to believe even half of the insane shit coming out of Project 2025.
other than my family, I just don't have much luck making connections with other people, I get along better with dogs. Unfortunately, dogs don't help pay rent. worse, if Trump wins another term, I would actually consider it dangerous to be openly gay. Not that I was getting dates anyways, but it means I probably won't try anymore if it's going to put me or my family at risk of harassment.
I'm just trying to enjoy every day I have with my family and try not to panic too hard, now, mostly through distracting myself with weed and videogames. I don't know how soon things will get bad, but I don't think we have the resources necessary to protect us from what's coming if he wins again. We're struggling as is -- I've lost my job recently, I had to go through cancer this past year, I'm depressed -- I don't also need to be shit-scared of how the election plays out. Even if he loses, so much is still so fucked with our country right now.
I mean do you like being woken up at 5 am every day? Because we had chickens growing up and it sucked. But with the price of eggs these days, maybe it's a good tradeoff.
There's not much to do except try to stay in my house and not engage with the outside world any more than I have to for four years.
It's also not like the Democrats are going to reign Trump in in any significant way. (Don't get me wrong. I'm voting for Biden, I just don't expect much.)
You are making a lot of assumptions. If everything goes absolutely perfectly we might have an end in four years. I doubt it though. This man has already started dismantling our government with his federalist society stooges on the court. He plans to gut the executive branch so there is no Opposition within government. He has shown he will use violence to keep power.
You don’t oppose fascism by being quiet. You oppose it by being loud and making it impossible for them to do their evil shit.
If anyone needs help moving to the EU (and in particular Finland) let me know. I moved to Finland after 2016 (I saw the writing on the wall for awhile, before Trump - it's just that's when I finally had the best opportunity and Trump accelerated the need to move).
It takes less money to move than you might think to move. If you have a specialty (especially in STEM) it's really easy, and most jobs will even provide language classes for free.
If you don't, it's still possible, but it'll be much harder work I'll admit. You may end up as a janitor or laborer, but know this - you'll still be able to live comfortably. Wages can be much fairer here, public transportation is excellent to the point where you don't need a car at all, and you won't be bankrupted by healthcare. Even a low skilled SINGLE job will afford you financial security - something I remember was not the case in the USA.
And on the bright side, if you want to go to higher education here, university is a lot cheaper or, if you live long enough in a place to become a permanent resident or citizen, free.
If you get yourself at least 8k and 3 months of intensive Duolingo and maybe Mondly, you have a chance to move.
Finland is one of three countries that banned my wife and stepdaughter's race by using a procedural "gotcha." Despite being a part of the Apostille convention in Geneva, Finland, Germany and Greece refuse to accept any documentation from Philippines. Therefore, they are banned from your country entirely.
Thanks for the offer though.
Reminder to all here: USA is not the only country on the planet with racism.
Could you go into more details? I have friends from the Philippines (like, directly from there, never were US citizens) and they still even visit family every year.
I'm not denying there's racism here - there is, especially against Muslims (possibly more their religion and culture than the race itself, since it's viewed very misogynistic and against Finnish values) and Somalians (this one is just racism based off ignorance). Recently against Russians too for, well, obvious reasons.
But none of my Philippine friends have experienced racism, especially the ones with Hispanic names (there's Hispanic favoritism here).
Of course, racism isn't why I recommend moving out of the USA to anywhere in the EU - it's the civil unrest, unjust work practices, broken healthcare, rolling back of women's and LGBTQ rights, corruption in government, etc.
Are you sure it wasn't missing paperwork or errors? I'm assuming your wife doesn't have a US passport for example since you said all paperwork was from the Philippines, and my high school friend's grandmother mentioned Philippine record keeping, much like Salvadorian one, leaves much to be desired. Especially after Duterte's reign making things worse and not complying with other global governments, if this was 2016-2022.
It takes less money to move than you might think to move. If you have a specialty (especially in STEM) it’s really easy, and most jobs will even provide language classes for free.
Unfortunately I picked the wrong specialty (architecture). Still trying to get licensed by the end of the year, that's the only chance I have at another country maybe recognizing my degree. Regardless, it's not very in-demand.
It is in the Nordics and some western Europe countries if you get some kind of green certification, as eco friendly and energy efficient architecture is in high demand to meet climate goals but there's a lack of architects specializing in that. Though from the news here it seems there's a lack of architects in general as it was seen by many as not the most profitable field for so many years, so ironically you kinda lucked out lol
Continue living in California, and probably not go to any red state. At least not with my wife. Continue to vote Democrat and spread progressive values.
Canada. Maybe northern Europe. But I live in a blue state and I don't want to see how long it takes him to say "states' rights only apply to those that voted for me"
Just try to live my life like I did during all the bad presidents I've had over my life. I grew up protesting against George Bush Jr and my friends still died in Iraq. now I just try to live my best life, and love and help protect others. I've always been lower class and on the outside of middle class suburban America, so I'm used to just going about my life, no matter what's taboo, or illegal at the time. Hell, DnD was the devil when I was growing up and I still played it. I still smoked weed when it was illegal, and I'll still love a man even if they say I can't.
This is the way. Some things you have control over and some things you don’t. Don’t waste your limited life sitting in your house being mad about who the president is. Raise your kids to be good people. Try to find a job that lines up with your personal philosophy. Find a local community and be helpful there.
First I'll do whatever I can to be sure my communications and whereabouts aren't trackable, tell my friends how to contact me, and recommend they use the same channels anyway.
Then I'll find protests to go to and local campaigns to support however I see fit, and I'll do that right up to the point where I feel unsafe, at which point I don't know how I procede.
So be it, I guess. If that turns out to be unrealistic I would just have to be careful about the content of the messages I send. Discord and WhatsApp have to go, obviously, but I think I could convince most of my friends and family to download Signal if push came to shove. Maybe I could look into hosting a small Matrix instance if I felt comfortable with whatever risks would come with that.
I don't think a second Trump administration is going to force me into complete anonymity, at least not overnight. I do want to commit to keeping my finger on the pulse so to speak, and staying a step ahead of whatever threats to my rights may be introduced. I have friends that would be much more threatened by Trump 2 than myself so if I can familiarize myself with these tools then I think I can help them feel safer.
You must realize he's pandering to the far right extremists. He had every opportunity to actually close the borders and realistically build a wall. This guy is so full of shit his eyes are brown.
In any sane world he’d have no chance. At least he’s shown enough incompetence and appointed so many corrupt greedy assistance, that he won’t succeed in doing as much damage as he wants, except to Ukraine. At this point it’s hard to believe he’s running for anything more than staying out of jail, making himself above the law
This time around the people surrounding him know what they need to do. It’s not like last time where they kinda tried to run the government with some pretense of obeying the rules. IMO should trump win this time they’re just going to go all-in and place themselves permanently in power.
Before the election we will be preparing bugout bags for my nuclear family and establishing concrete plans to flee.
After the election, if Trump wins we will monitor and be ready. At the first sign of trouble we get out of dodge. I have the ability to get EU citizenship for my family if need be. In the meantime, my wife and I have skills that can get us the privilege to move into some countries based on their employment needs.
My family and I would have reasons to be targeted by white nationalists if they felt empowered. I have received semi-threatening letters from such people in the past.
Resist. Reorganize. Endure. Survive. Same as we've always done with presidents.
Idk what settlers are gonna do. Probably what they always do: whine, move to someone else's land if they're seriously inconvenienced, steal their shit, ruin that too, complain about how this keeps happening to them.
Just keep doing what I am doing. My kids will have citizenship in my wife's home country by the end of summer. So I can get them out if I have to. Me personally I am in no real danger.
I'd like to think I'm not so backed into a corner that violence is the answer, so I'll do what I do every day of the week: keep my head down and wait.
If push comes to shove, and the lives of myself and my people are genuinely threatened, I won't retaliate in kind. I come from a long line of people that knew the benefits of blending in. I may not have the moxy to be a firebrand or to rally others to a cause, I may not have the heart to pull a trigger, but I have the means and skill to make triggers and the good sense to stay away from they places they get used.
It may not be the heroic sense of most Americans, but I was born into an America that sold us an action hero instead of providing us safety and I've never been one to buy rhetoric. I will not give my life for a cause, I will live to see it succeed.
I'm a proficient software engineer and have the financial means to leave. I'm staying. 100%. This isn't a fight we can run from. If the US falls to fascism, there's a lot more damage we can expect around the world.
The plan is to increase the rhetoric and efforts already in place, but hopefully with more participation, as people (hopefully) slowly wake up to reality.
I had a buddy once in a previous job who didn't vote in 2016. His stance was that the system was "working as intended", and voting was equivalent to condoning the system. Not voting was his way of exercising his freedom of speech. I disagreed with his logic but I understood, mainly because I couldn't verbalize a valid and logical counterargument. Today I can.
My buddy was right. The system is working as intended. But you can't say that without also stating that, at our best, more than ⅓ of eligible voters don't vote. Couple that with a system meant to disadvantage large populations, and, yeah, the system is working as intended. I believe that our best option is to stay and fight by being politically active and encouraging others to do the same.
I also do believe in our fellow man. Trump has plenty of supporters, but I honestly believe they're outnumbered and endangered. This doesn't make them less dangerous. Probably moreso tbh. And even though they're outnumbered, the only way to truly push forward is to keep up the fight and not underestimate them. We need to be louder, fight harder, and make our voices heard when it counts. ie, vote.
But I also don't have kids. My sister left Texas when she decided to start having children and I support that decision 100%. This is no place to raise a child.
This isn’t a fight we can run from. If the US falls to fascism, there’s a lot more damage we can expect around the world.
saying that it could be similar to germany during that one thing they did would be an understatement, considering how much bigger the US is, and how much more influence it has.
It would be global, if not near global. The only good thing would be the fact that china and russia exist, and exist in significant capacity to do something about it (though it's debatable that they would) oh and india.
I also do believe in our fellow man. Trump has plenty of supporters, but I honestly believe they’re outnumbered and endangered. This doesn’t make them less dangerous. Probably moreso tbh. And even though they’re outnumbered, the only way to truly push forward is to keep up the fight and not underestimate them. We need to be louder, fight harder, and make our voices heard when it counts. ie, vote.
it's important to remember that the right is incredibly fractured right now, every party in the right hates each other. Unless everyone somehow collectively agrees, they will likely deconstruct themselves in part.
It was shocking to see how much better of a society Japan was when I visited. Really the one thing they don’t do as well as us is create shareholder value. To which I say, who gives a fuck?
It' really seems like a great place to live. They don't seem on the verge of a civil war and aren't evil to each other. Has more of a everyone get along feel to it and who cares what you're into.
I hope you’re Japanese or can pass for it. As beautiful as the country is (I loved it there) they are highly xenophobic and racist. There are literally restaurants where foreigners aren’t allowed in (even if you’ve lived there decades), getting housing in most places requires you to be “sponsored” by someone with a very high upfront fee, etc.
So I just barely make it into the classes that do well under trump, but I’m very worried as the social safety net is falling apart for most americans, and that republican rule only speeds that problem. I’m going to be trying to strengthen resources that help people trying to make it to self-sufficiency, but I can’t overcome the typical american attitude of “I’ve failed because I need help.” I guess the best plan for most people is to take care of those around them, be moral and resist bad policy by quiet lack of compliance, and try to help good people get out of bad parts of the country so they collapse all the sooner.
Not sure. But my partner and I have an out, we will probably move to their home country and start a new life there if need be. It's kind of hard to determine when the right time to leave is.
Trump will eventually do something that gets between rich people and their money while also being an impeachable offense. The "sane" bussiness republican VP will pardon Trump after his impeachment and have him live out the rest of his life as a fox news call in guest until he died of "old age".
If we're lucky he'll piss off his Russian contacts and end up falling out a window by accident.
More likely is that this puppet will be used by bad actors to advance their agendas and as usual he'll distract everybody from the actual bad shit happening.
Move faster and work lots of overtime to get the last of my debt paid off then going to a friends place in Mexico. I speak Mexican Spanish well enough so I can avoid areas filled with expats.
....................I really hope you're not in public when the results are announced.
"LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!! HE'S SHITTING AND PEEING IN PANTS RIGHT NOW!!!!"
Maybe you should just stay home. Spend the night on the toilet, ya know? Of coarse, you'll have to shut off the water first, and then flush away the remaining water first.
I mean how ELSE are you going to shit and pee your pants, without making a big mess!!! If you don't shut off the water first, it's just going to clog the toilet and make it overflow.
Why wait? Did the math, and depending where you go and what state you currently live in, you might even pay less in taxes (or even about the same if you go somewhere high tax like Finland and are coming from a lower tax state like Wisconsin - only 2.3% difference) while also not having to pay in healthcare. Public transportation is so excellent here a car is literally just a luxury, so if you can even consider transportation savings.
Really the only hurdle is language, but practice everyday really hard and you can get the gist of it. Most international companies here use English as primary working language anyhow.
The main hurdle is really experience (I am <5yr) and family (my parents are aging and may need my intervention in fewer years than I think). Firms usually only hire internationally for skilled engineers and there's no guarantee my accredited degree from the US is valid anywhere else. And if I went someplace other than Canada, the travel costs would likely result in me only coming back to see the rest of my family once every two years, which sucks and could pose actual problems.
Don't get me wrong, I honestly do like the idea of going someplace with real human rights, but unless it becomes clear there is actually a threat to my existence I can't justify that big of a change. I love my family too much.
Hope it's not as bad as I think ("as bad as I think" means "mass killings;") What else can I do? Everyone else here seems to be privileged enough to have the skills or plain cash to say "I'll go somewhere else," isn't as worried as they should be, or think they're Apocalypse Badass Man (see: accelerationists.) That's not me. I'm unskilled, poor, I have the self-introspection to know I don't have what it takes to be a revolutionary.
I'd still prefer to not get set back another decade by having him in office, and the danger of him never leaving office by way of dismantling all of the safeguards that prevented his coup in 2021 can't be ignored.
If there are ways I can resist, I will. If there are people I can help just by reaching out, I will extend my hand to them. I won't let Trump's hateful rhetoric poison my humanity or turn me against my fellow man.
If things get bad enough, my girlfriend and I have a "bug-out" plan that we discussed and agreed upon that basically amounts to - withdraw everything from our financial accounts, sell everything that isn't nailed down if we can or abandon everything in place, round up the family and buy plane/boat tickets to head somewhere that has low requirements for citizenship or will accept American petitions for political asylum if things get desperate enough. This is in the worst-case scenario where the U.S. descends into a full fascist/totalitarian state and there is a clear and present danger of us getting killed just for being political dissidents.
Ideally, we'd like to stay here and hope that things get better, but every year things seem to get worse and worse. The American Dream is dead and rotting, and we can just barely see a pinhole of light at the end of the tunnel for us to be able to achieve a life, but we're both left wondering if we're even going to be able to hold on to that if we do manage to seize it given how much the economy is backsliding each year.
tl;dr: the plan is to keep our heads down, but our spirits as high as possible, and always know where the closest exit is in case of an emergency.
I was going to say something along similar lines, once the borders are ordered shut, you'll have a much harder time getting out of dodge, not impossible, but much, much harder.
As a person made utterly destitute and disabled by a series of crimes committed against me, well, I have SSDI and thats basically it.
Cost of living is way lower in Ecuador, i can relearn the Spanish I knew in high school, and theres a good number of affordable cities and towns there with considerably better crime statistics and public transportation than anywhere I can afford in the US.
I have done the math and it would be vastly more cost and time effective to move abroad... as I have been evicted, and basically that means I can't rent anywhere in the US for at least two years.
I am seriously considering noping the fuck out if Trump wins. Spent most of my adult life advocating for minorities, the poor, the disenfranchised, and now I am too fucking tired, in too much pain and too broke.
(Ironically my last job was at a non profit assisting the homeless, who didn't give a fuck about me becoming homeless.)
Not like anyone will miss me, every family member and friend I thought I had either committed crimes against me, told me to fuck off, or told me that they what was happening to me was too emotionally traumatic for them to deal with right now.
Of course this plan goes to shit if Trump and the Republicans somehow massively defund or cancel Social Security.
I used to think they would not be so stupid as to actually do that, as... an insane number of Trump's core voter base rely on SSI ot SSA or SSDI... but obviously with the MAGA crowd, anything is possible.
Guess I can always teach English. Maybe if I can ever walk again I can guide tours.
as I have been evicted, and basically that means I can't rent anywhere in the US for at least two years.
There are an increasing number of sublets and private rentals in my area, that don't check rental history. Everything is fairly under the table, month to month with no binding leases, for better or worse depending on your situation. Just bringing it up as a potential avenue to consider, maybe there are options in your area too.
I am basically bound to my current roach motel that just happens to allow month to month rent, without kicking you out after 3 weeks.
I have been using a shit tier 4g phone for months now trying to find no credit check apartments. Everything is a scam, and none the shady apartments seem to actually list online anywhere.
'Look for private rentals!' Is good advice but... with what search engine, what rental website actually has a private rentals filter that actually works? Ive not found one.
Craigslist is bone dry where I am, and the few times a listing pops up, either they don't respond or they don't allow evictions or , again, its a scam.
I bussed halfway across the country to find the cheapest motel rates I could.
Im not a resident of the state as I do not live in a residence.
I dont qualify for rental assistance as I do not live in a residence.
And I don't qualify for homeless assistance as I am not homeless.
I would immediately erase everything that I have ever posted, anywhere. I would go underground as much as possible, online speaking. When the purges come, I would be a target.
IDK if we would leave. We are not prime immigrant status, not qualifying for Canada. That shocked me, TBF.
I'm a govt. contractor. I will retire the day before he's swarn in. I'm not sure what I'll do beyond that. A lot of Americans already retire to Costa Rica or Panama. I'll have to decide whether to run away or stay & resist.
We cannot house and feed you. Most of you will die of exposure the first winter you are here.
If you have thoughts of coming here with guns and taking our homes or food by force know that most of us outside the cities are armed, we're just not so scared that we constantly show off our guns and feel no need to go prepared for combat to buy donuts or groceries.
So, Mexico is your best bet, if they will take you. I bet you'll be glad that all the talk of a border wall was just neo-fascist virtue signaling.
The Diagaloons want to divide North America in half with a line drawn from Alaska to Florida and put all the Liberals on the south side of the line. We get BC and Alberta, Texas, the Pacific northwest, and California and they get ice, snow, and Florida.
Yeah. Also, clearly doesn't understand what is going on (TBF, I don't know shit about Canadian politics either), but the stupid violent people with guns will be overjoyed if trump is the president.
I simply pointed out the reality of the situatuation. Canada can't take in millions of American refugees fleeing a christofascist authoritarian regime.
You're well north of the south most point in Canada. You're practically Canadian. We just don't have enough housing up here to take in a bunch of refugees. If Americans end up in tent city refugee camps they will die in winter. We could put a few tens of thousands in school gymnasiums and community centers but it would turn into a humanitarian disaster.
Same as every year the country gets shittier, keep trudging along, voting, and hoping things improve. The way things are set up here I can't feasibly leave, even moving in country would be a beast to save and prep for let alone out of country.
The "Freedom" we have is voting every couple years and that's it. Even then they have tried everything possible to strip the voice of the majority of Americans. We are pretty fucking powerless for the most part.
Have a general sense of disappointment and despair as I watch bad decisions be made. My glimmer of hope is that he is an old man in bad shape and he could drop dead at any moment now.
I live in Texas and i work in public education. That said, I'm in a mostly blue bubble, I have a pretty good retirement fund, and I'm unlikely to get pregnant. My school district is still mostly reasonably run (by idiots, but not magas, just regular idiots) but we're feeling the budget cuts, increase in kids with needs, and difficulty hiring. I'm hoping for the house and Senate to protect us because it looks like the justice dept is already too far gone.
Ill see what happens, presidents like to talk big before they're elected, but if everything really goes down the shitter, and project 2025 is successful I'll seriously consider leaving. Very fortunately I am British by decent. Not the greatest improvement but a significant one nonetheless.
Start getting into a resistance mindset. People have a rapidly vanishing window to organize for what's coming. Biden or Trump this cycle it doesn't really matter that much, Democrats and their supporters are simply are not equipped to resist fascism. We've reached the terminal end of the lesser of two evils, and it's going to be bad. Genocide Joe won't save us.
Indeed. I keep asking what is the plan to stop a fascist MAGA candidate from winning the Presidency in 2028, when the Democrats don't have incumbent advantage, and the historical pattern is a party flip, and have received only one (joke) answer. I have heard no talk whatsoever about how to handle a Biden win this year, although the MAGA politicians are signaling another attempt to overturn the election. (My state AG is still "investigating" the fake elector scheme from 2020; no way a prosecution will happen before the election, and likely never.) "Vote harder" is not going to be effective.
Anarchy seems more likely to mr than fascism in the aftermath of such an election outcome. Trump has too many haters for there to be a peaceful transition this time.
My plan is to vote in candidates at all levels that are endorsed by The Forward Party.
We need to overhaul our voting system so that we're not trapped in this downward spiral of a 2 party system that we're currently in. Ranked Choice voting, Star voting, Approval voting... they all have pros and cons but any one of them is better than the current system that we have.
The way we get better options for Presidential candidates is to have a voting system that gives other parties a chance.
I don't care if I have to vote for a particular Republican, Democrat, or some third party individual for this to be accomplished.
Following the trend of "vote out all Republicans/Democrats" is how we got here in the first place.
Can I persuade you to choose party for socialism and liberation over fwd where there is one?
Psl is a far left party whose vision of democracy is radically far reaching, extending into even the workplace. Unless you simply favor the self described centrist policies of fwd, psl might be more your speed where there is a candidate.
I think you're misunderstanding what the Forward Party is.
You can be a part of any side of the political spectrum and still fall in line with the Forward Party.
The only thing that the Forward Party cares about is overhauling the voting system with something better: RCV, Star, Approval, etc.
They don't take a stance on much of anything else.
And in terms of priority, any candidate endorsed by the Forward Party has my initial vote. If multiple candidates in the same race are backed by the forward party, then I will start digging in deeper to figure out which one I want to vote for.
the same thing i did when even biden, et al. voted against gay marriage; gays in the military; supported gay ban in the federal gov't and stayed silent on a slew of anti-immigrant & anti-abortion state laws.
I'm a bit cynical here and I think the country is headed down the same path whether Trump or Biden wins in November. We're seeing pseudo-fascist rhetoric increase in frequency. We're seeing authoritarian and militaristic policies pass virtually unopposed through our political system. War is virtually guaranteed with either candidate.
I know this opinion may be unpopular but I don't think this election matters very much. There are of course potential differences- such as access to abortion. If Biden wins, maybe there's more hope. But that's really it- just hope. Democrats have had majorities dozens of times since Roe V Wade was ruled and never wrote abortion into law.
I don't think it's suddenly going to change in the next 4 years which looks to be a potentially very dangerous period of time geopolitically speaking. Biden isn't going to have very much political capital to spend and the Overton Window is gradually shifting right.
Instead of looking only at this election, look at the next. And the one after. Do people think MAGA will go away? The world is in economic and geopolitical restructuring- instability breeds radicalism. The problem will likely only get worse. Especially with another weak Democratic administration.
Which brings me to the answer to your question. I have dual citizenship in South America. The only reasons I would leave the US are if there is a WW3 scenario or some sort of clear descent into a form of fascism. We're toying with it right now, but it can get a lot worse.
It probably won't be much better in my home country if I'm being honest, but there will be less chances for war. Any global war will inevitably involve the US in some capacity.
Have you heard about Project 2025? This is what’s so scary about Trump that isn’t true about Biden. In 2017, Trump was the dog who caught the car, but in 2025 he will come in with a plan and allies helping him move as fast as possible to unravel environmental protections, public school funding, consumer protections, scientific research, and increase the amount of right-wing Christianity in the US government as much as they can. And that just what there is skimming the Wikipedia article. In 2017 Trump started his term with some clumsy executive orders, many of which were immediately enjoined/overturned - in 2025 he will come in with prewritten executive orders with a much stronger legal standing that will be much more effective.
Trump put polarizing figures in his cabinet in “acting” roles because he couldn’t get them through the Senate (like Betsy DeVos who screwed over thousands of student loan borrowers and worked to take money out of public schools). He’ll do that again.
And while I agree there’s some things I’d like Biden to do that he isn’t, he and Trump aren’t remotely equivalent. Biden has gotten a huge amount of legislation passed for climate action, he’s forgiven student loans for 10s of thousands of people (many of whom were promised service-based loan forgiveness and then screwed over by DeVos).
You’re right that MAGA won’t go away. But Trump is a unique figure on the right, and one that is particularly dangerous right now. There isn’t one thing we can do to change the minds of his supporters, but every election we keep him out of power is 4 more years until all the Project 2025 shit can come true.
I've heard of Project 2025. It seems like the Democrats in office have not. Heck, just this morning, I read Jennifer Rubin's op-ed about how Sen. Durbin (chair of the Judiciary Committee) is so peeved he's almost on the verge of sending a Very Sternly Worded Letter about one of our Supreme Court justices being an insurrectionist.
Lol. Opportunity to be on the other side of the brain drain effect but refuse it. Fine, some other continent will reap the benefits of a bunch of smart expats.
Well, as an Australian I'd hope they'd not come here either, happy to have refugees and help then out as much as possible but not Americans.
As to brain drain, you come from a country that's destroying the planet, acts like a spoiled child when it doesn't get it's way, (look at the reaction to the ICC arrest warrants for Israel) you've created a monster that has little to admire, the "brains" that created all that will hopefully stay there.
This is a country that has threatened to invade the Hague if any US person or allly is indicted by the ICC for example. Churlish doesn't even begin to describe it, stay there.
Probably enjoy the peace and quiet on social media when all the right- wing… I mean- “far left” propagandists disappear after succeeding in getting their beloved fascist elected.
It happens every four years. It’ll happen this year as well.
The irony of YOU asking this probably isn’t lost on anyone I’d assume.
All the young uni kids who went full anti Biden on one issue, are likely too young to remember what president Trump was really like. They're gonna love him, since being miserable and outraged seems to be their preferred default.