why isn't anyone calling for Trump to drop out.
why isn't anyone calling for Trump to drop out.
I get it, Biden is old and that's a problem, but why doesn't anyone seem to have a problem with the fact that Trump is almost the same age, has 34 felonies, raped at least 2 women, went to Epstein's Island 11 times, sexualized his own daughter, stole classified documents, aligned himself with Xi and Putin, and can't remember common names?
Is all of that really better than being 2½ years older than he is right now?
Republican candidates aren't held to the same standards because Republican voters don't care (or they actually like it).
Republican candidates aren't held to the same standards because Republican voters are absolute morons
He gave them $1,600 in stimulus checks. Some of the poorer people think he'll make things more affordable for people, lower costs, make crypto better, and essentially just rain down money. They have to think of their families future, and apparently they think Trump will do that. They don't care what he's done, he's a means to an end, and if they can wrap an American flag around him, profess him the new Messiah, and ban abortions to do it, they will.
Republicans are either extremely ignorant or they just lack any and all empathy. They get their news from Fox that shields them from the truth, and they live in constant fear of blood-drinking evil liberals, illegal racist/murderer aliens, and that their money is being stolen from them by undesirables that feed off the system.
Their entire world view is a facade to make rich people richer and their ignorance of that makes them expendable pawns. It'd be comical if it wasn't so tragic...
His base are enthusiastically slobbering on his c**k, and most prominent politicians for the gqp seem to be lining up to holster it when his base are done. Not to mention the supreme
crunchwrapcourt are in love with him too.fyi most Lemmy instances do not censor slurs, so unlike YouTube and Xitter you don't have to worry about that here
Why did you censor cock?
Seemed like the thing to do. Apparently struck a nerve lol
I’m calling on trump to commit suicide for the good of our country.
personally extending that to a fat majority of republicans
Most of the people who think Trump should drop out have been loudly opposing him for a long time. There isn't just one single thing they object to, no great unifying theme they can point at and say "This is why he should not run," because Everything about him is a reason why he should absolutely not be president. Even his Felony conviction is, while perhaps more than a drop, just a splash in the bucket of what should be utterly career ending circumstances.
The people who still support Trump don't care about any of that. They're not going to suddenly see one particular turn-off and decide that's it, that's why Trump should back out. They're committed, in too deep, they can't back down now because it would mean the Libs were actually right all along, and that presents, to them, an existential threat. And in the end, it's the Republican way.
When Democrats, even popular ones, fuck up, other Democrats are much more likely to turn on them, to call for and get resignations. With Republicans, that's almost unheard of. Republicans take Part Unity to an extreme, circling the wagons and assuming a full defensive position no matter how incredibly abhorrent the crime, no matter how blatant the evidence. Today we're seeing the perfect example. Biden fucked up a debate, stumbling over his own words like an old man well past his prime, and the party is calling for him to step down. Trump has built his whole political career on stumbling over his own words, with the only cogent statements he manages being blatant lies, and his people would rather murder their neighbors than see him lose.
As much as I agree with everything you say, there is one more thing that needs to be said.
I started watching the debate fully aware of the fact that Trump was a POS. Trump was a POS in 2016, 2020, and 2024. On the other hand, I started watching the debate hoping to see president Biden could make Trump look even dumber. What I got was a very clearly senile guy that failed to make coherent sentences 10+ times in a 90 minute debate.
Trump was who he has always been during the debate. Biden was senile during the debate. At this point I'm not asking Biden to drop because I like Trump. That is wrong. I hate Trump. I'm asking Biden to drop because I know he won't be able to beat Trump. On the other hand, he might have no problem beating medicare.
you think rape and pedophilia are going to turn off republicans?
Savage!
And accurate, fighting both existing and new minimum marriage age requirements has been a priority for Republicans in like 10+ different states over the past 5 years or so.
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Most people who want him to drop out were never going to vote for him anyway.
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People (perhaps erroneously) perceive a chance of Biden actually doing it. Trump will never drop out as winning the presidency is his only shot at avoiding incarceration. He'll probably run again in 2028 if he's still around by then.
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Trump isn't incumbent, meaning the GOP already had a full primary in the past year. They've already determined they don't have a better alternative. Technically the Dems could have nominated someone other than Biden, but it was never a very likely possibility, so people aren't as familiar with Democratic alternatives.
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Republicans either don't believe any of the criticisms you made of Trump are true, are okay with them, still believe him to be the lesser of two evils, or some combination of these. This is largely due to right-wing propaganda e.g. Fox News, OAN, Info Wars, etc.
I'm no expert, these are just what I perceive to be happening. There's probably other factors at play as well.
Edit: with the recent supreme court rulings, I'm guessing that he may be able to avoid jail even if he doesn't win. I still don't see any chance he'll drop out.
Doesn’t the US have a two term (total) limit?
Yes, my comment is assuming if Trump loses this year, I'd bet he'll try for a second term in 2028.
Most people who want him to drop out were never going to vote for him anyway.
Isn't that sort of the problem? He's way down in the polls because most people aren't going to vote for him?
"Way down" based on what poll exactly? Both of the candidates are within 2%, certainly within margin of error.
Biden isn't really any different % wise than a month ago. Trump is up 1% from a month ago. It's not like it's 60/40, it's 42/39.8
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/
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If a democrat fucks up, that's big news because they're supposed to have their shit together and act in the best interest of all of us.
If a republican fucks up, that's expected. Any articles about that are like 'water is wet'. It's not informative because we all know, even the conservatives who vote for them, that they're in it for themselves and are out to get everyone else.
The truth is that Trump has done more for conservative causes than any president prior. He installed the far right justices that have toppled Roe v Wade and affirmative action. He enacted things like the Muslim travel bans. In short, either they know he's a scumbag and don't care because he gets results, or they don't believe their own lyin' eyes because look at the results he produces. It's all about the bottom line, and the ends justify the means.
For the voters, they really don't believe it. I have conservative family members. Everything is always "Oh that's just bullshit cooked up by the crooked Biden crime family" "Oh he didn't mean the words he said very clearly, what he really meant was blah blah blah" followed ten seconds later by "I like him because he tells it like it is"
I just don't get it. What makes this guy seemingly have a force field that can make people deny their own eyes and ears? Ignoring morals here, just thinking with those patterns would give me a cognitive dissonance aneurysm.
Closeted socialist here. I work in an extremely remote 24/7 process industry. They play Newsmax on the TVs in the chow hall and the only time they don't is when they are replacing tvs. EVERYONE here is a degree of an alt righter. Some were at J6. Some have "Alex Jones was right" on their thermos'. I honestly believe some would kill me if I said I've read Marx. Not a single one of them could accurately define a political, economic, or social system without distracting with tropes, jingoistic rhetoric, or whataboutisms. Academic education is brainwashing. Christianity is a brand-name but you don't have to read the Bible to be a christian. I made the mistake of expressing my disappointment of Trump because of what he has said about veterans. I was mocked for believing propaganda and over time I have become known as "the liberal". That was all it took.
It's frustrating, and I daily struggle with unchecked bigotry. But most people here do not wake up and choose to be racist or evil. They are doing what their wildly misled moral compass is telling them to be righteous. In their eyes, the pandering of the media that we see is absolute and total corruption to them. The media does lie, they have lied. Most of them couch it In ignorance and a whispered redaction, but that's all it took. If they can lie about anything, then they must be lying about the unflattering things. There's a bit of head-in-the-sand and delusion, but in their eyes the rape, the lawsuits, the theft from taxpayers, all of it is exactly what they would say if they were trying to make him look bad. That's enough for them.
I honestly don't blame them. They have fallen for grifts, lies, and propaganda that goes back at least 200 years.
I said the same thing the other day. They don't care. They just want results. It could be a ham sandwich that is starting to mold, and if the ham sandwich got the same results, there would be morons out there wearing ham sandwich hats.
Moldy ham sandwich '24
Has a nice ring to it.
Perhaps you missed the last almost 4 years where people were doing precisely that. There was this whole thing with Ron Desantis, and Nikki Haley, and the brainworms inside of JFK, Jr., etc. It didn't work, and his base chose Trump, if not unanimously then close enough to it, and also far back enough in the past for such a call to not be relevant anymore. Plus conservatives are just different kinds of people - for them, power is not bestowed upon someone by We The People, but ripped out of the people's hands by force of will. Might does make Right after all, in their playbook.
But Dems are not choosing Biden. Also, no primaries are being held. So asking him to drop out is the last hope before holding your nose and voting for him anyway, hoping against hope that just like for Hillary, others do as well (although in that case... well, I'm sure this time will be different. Why am I sure? Bc... shut up, that's why!:-P /s).
holding your nose and voting for him anyway
Funny, because Joe Biden's policies are popular with Democrats AND Republicans. The MSM, one the other hand, seems to believe everyone wants a dictatorship so they are attacking Joe Biden for bullshit reasons. Make no mistake, the right will seize power and end your freedom.
The mainstream media is bought by the trillionaires, so I'm mostly ignoring them.
I thought The Atlantic was basically the last one left. Even The Guardian has encroached first into clickbait titles and now several paragraphs at the top of clickbait content even if the latter part of an article can finally get into real stuff. So it is in transition as it finishes off the enshittification process it already began.
But The Atlantic... I hold to a different standard, in my mind, and when they speak, I still listen. Perhaps I shouldn't - can you point to an example from them that shows that they have jumped the shark too? The Atlantic isn't in the same class as e.g. the NYT!!?! They are still worthwhile (I thought?)!
So media aside, people - especially young people that don't have the personal history with political matters - they watched the debate, or saw clips of its worst moments. They see this shit with their own eyes. It's not just the media doing a hit job, as has been true in the past. This time it's real.
Asking your President to remain awake during a conversation, especially one prepared for literally weeks to months in advance does not sound like bullshit to me. Rather it sounds like the basic foundation for any job that I've ever had personally, and have ever so much as heard of.
Perhaps Biden('s people) should not have agreed to a debate in this format, giving only 2 minutes for each question, that favored Trump's style of false but pithy statements? Nonetheless, he did agree...
Also I'm not saying he's senile, though I would like for a real test to be done. In any case, can we agree that it doesn't matter at this point? Doing the debate in that manner caused a LOT of harm to his campaign. Maybe I'm just not stating it in the right words, but that's more along the lines of what I mean...
In more detail: we cannot control people. Hillary Clinton failed to earn sufficient votes, and Trump won in 2016. Now, is Biden repeating the same pattern? Vote Blue No Matter Who is an authoritarian dogma - but we have no power to enforce it. People, especially the youth, will do as they please. The only hope is to try to earn it? That's going to be a LOT more difficult now, than it was prior to the debate...
"Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line."
I actually disagree with this sentiment.
There's clearly a split in the Democratic Party regarding the candidates and leanings of the old guard, vs a very large portion of their voter base that wants structural reforms in the country (universal public healthcare VS increased access to insurance, for instance), and I bet a large portion of the latter feel whipped into having to vote for a lesser evil rather than for a political project they actually have passion for.
Meanwhile, Trump was an outsider of the Republican party who managed to get their voters in love with him, to the point that he managed to hijack the party and leave it ripe open for a transformation from neoconservative to proto-fascist, despite the Republican old guard initially being hostile towards him.
The Republican party has managed to stay competitive, despite their political goals being less popular overall in the US than the Dems', precisely because they allowed themselves to mutate and stay responsive to the changes in the electorate, the obvious tragedy being that democratic institutions (mostly referring to both political parties) have been far more willing to incorporate far right nutjobs who want to end democracy than they have for left-wing populism that wants to make housing affordable.
Democrats spend all their time telling anybody left of the mid right DNC establishment to eat shit except for the lap they take during election years to blame all their woes on those same leftists.
Since I've been able to vote, I've heard this. But the people in charge of the Democratic Party never seem to want to get people to fall in line. They're content to be the default alternative to a party that demands rigid adherence.
Nobody fell in love with biden in 2020. He was crowned the nominee because they told everyone that somehow out of all candidates he was the best chance against trump and democrats fell in line, just like they did in 2016 for hillary.
Republicans love Trump, and Democrats keep ordering their voters to fall in line.
The illegitimate SCOTUS failed to rule on his 14th Amendment disqualification because they don't care about The Constitution. The fact that he is even a candidate shows how many republicans wipe their asses with the document.
Because his supporters support him to "fuck the liberals" they don't care that trailer trash will get fucked harder under trump
The American people called for him to dropout in 2020. He didn't listen.
I didnt hear this. Maybe because I was too far away in europe, but it didnt seem, that the US had enough of this pussygrabber
Because Trump is winning in the polls handily and has robust support from his base.
Biden is the opposite: he's losing in the polls, his disapproval numbers are the highest in the history of modern polling, and many of the people that will vote for him will do it only because they have to.
Trump supporters have to as well but for different reasons. If they don't drink the Kool-aid and play along socially they are ostracized. Which doesn't help anyone.
As a non American, Trump winning the election makes sesne. But in general, WTF is going on in America?!
capitalism just progressing to it's natural end stage.
Also...
First Past The post voting artificially limits the number of political parties to two. This allows the legacy political parties to run incredibly weak candidates since there is no competition in the electoral system.
With a more representative voting system (much like Ranked Choice voting) people would be free to vote for the person that best represents them, while still counting their vote if that candidate doesn't win.
As a non American, trump winning will destabilise things in Europe way more than it will in America. The cunt's said Russia can do what they want with NATO member states. It means all aid to Ukraine stops and Ukraine will lose because Putin has an endless supply of meat to take it if Ukraine can't find the artillery shells. Russia will turn Ukraine's now highly trained, well equipped, and battle hardened army against Poland. Major bloodbath! After enough primary school children have died on the frontline the Baltic states will be next, followed by Scandinavia.
Sure Europe will eventually stop them but at a massive cost. And that's only if China doesn't openly arm Russia or send troops. The only way to avoid it is if the US and Europe remain tight.
People that want to stay free must learn to vote for the most viable candidate, whether they like them or not. Republicans know the left actually value proper behaviour and consistency from their candidates, so the left is vulnerable to this kind of attack. The republicans don't care what you say about their candidate, they just want to win. But especially they want you to lose.
Conservatives need other people to lose, because if other people lose it feels like they are winning.
It's why they call they cops on people for no reason. It's why gender neutral bathrooms are bad. It's why contraception is bad. It's why healthcare and other social safety nets are bad.
If other people don't lose, they don't win. Zero sum thinking means they need you to lose.
They sound like losers
The people calling for Biden to drop out are completely different from the people who want Trump to stay in the race.
Democrats want Biden to drop out because they don't believe he can beat Trump.
Republicans want Trump to stay on the ticket because they're pretty sure he'll crush Biden .
Democrats want Biden to drop out because they don't believe he can beat Trump.
To this point: for those who think that, do they think anyone else realistically could, at this point, other than Biden?
While I'm not thrilled with his chances, I will say that if he wasn't to be the nominee, that decision needed to happen in 2021. At this point, I do believe that statistically, he's got better odds than anyone else, so regardless of his debate or mental state, he's our guy.
To this point: for those who think that, do they think anyone else realistically could, at this point, other than Biden?
Literally anyone born after 1975.
Look, 45% of people are going to vote for the name on the D line no matter who it is. 45% of people are going to vote for the name on the R line no matter what. That last 10% is who you want to win over. And like, they're tired of both of them. But Biden is the dude in office right now, so they're gonna vote for the other one.
All Biden has to do is say "after some reflection, you're right. I cannot serve at my best capacity. I'm going to step aside for the good of party and country," and then they nominate literally anyone under 50. Hardcore democrats are going to vote for whoever is on that line, and middle America is going to see that and be like "that's the honorable thing to do. I respect that. And I may not know who this new person is, but they're not Trump" so democrats still have that tired platform without any of the baggage. They would cruise to retaining the presidency.
do they think anyone else realistically could, at this point, other than Biden?
The answer to that is clearly, "Yes." The calls for him to bow out are coming from all corners; various mainstream media outlets, donor groups, alternative media, pundits, and even sitting Democratic politicians.
Anyone still planning on voting Biden at this point can only justify it on the basis he's not Trump, and wouldn't decide not to vote without Biden on the ticket
A quality he shares with every other American with the exception of Trump himself.
The democrats only stand to gain votes by swapping him out. 75% of democrats would prefer a different candidate.
Because we don't expect him to have any shame or decency.
Trump controls a cult, that's why.
Cult leaders can get their followers to do anything and the followers will forgive the leader for anything, including felonies. They will dismiss any criticism of the leader as lies or made up to hurt the leader politically. No matter how true the criticism might be.
At the end of the day, it's very much like the relationship between religious worshippers and their god.
even in the bible god is a straight up asshole and people still blindly worship
The only people I see calling for Biden to drop out are the media news companies.
It’s basically a fake controversy. They benefit massively from stirring the pot so people tune in to “see what’s going to happen”.
Reality is if Biden were going to drop out, he’d already have done it.
Depends on what social circles and social media circles you roll in. I know of a LOT of people who wish he wasn’t the nominee.
It takes years to plan a presidential run and the incumbent has a huge advantage. It's infeasible to change the candidate now and would 100% split an already very polarized party. It's a fake media controversy and the media companies are the ones causing people to feel that way by editing footage to make Biden look bad, attacking Biden's stutter or slip up instead of Trump's lies and gaslighting. The media is controlled by the rich and complicit in treason, but the rich never get their dues and the right is never held accountable.
This, Biden isn't going to drop out and most of the people calling for him to resign benefit either directly from him no longer being on the ballot, or indirectly benefit in the chaos and doubt of opportunist in the democratic party jumping on what they perceive as an opportunity to enhance their standing and power within the party and political establishment as a whole.
If one singular data point (a bad debate performance) is enough to make you or anyone else think a person should immediately step aside, you're exactly the kind of person these attacks and campaigns are directed at: someone easy to sway and scatter. I don't particularly like Biden or most of what he's done in the last 2 years specifically, but I also know that splitting off from him or encouraging a third candidate that will split the vote is just going to hand GOP the reigns for the next 4 years and given how they've spent the last 8 stomping on rights and democracy, it'll probably be another 20 years before they lose power short of another revolution or civil war. So weighing those two scenarios, yeah I'm just going to vote Biden, sleepy or dark brandon, doesn't matter since he can always resign after the election and let Kamala take up POTUS.
How would replacing Biden split the vote?
Never thought about it like that
Firstly, foreign nations interfering with our country wants chaos. Trump is chaos but they will latch onto anything to sew discord and craziness.
Second the Republicans don't care they are voting for Trump period or against democrats period there is little to change their mind. Conservatives don't have to do something to win they have to hold every one and anything back.
Thirdly, the left is critical thinkers who are trying for better so there is always dissent or people criticizing/arguing the best way to do a thing causing lots of bad will. Doesn't help we don't have a left party and have a middle party always trying to court to the right.
Lastly, there is tons of could been better should have done better. Democrats and DnC sucks. They have a bunch of old fogeys holding onto power and their donors want people who won't change things to much. Doesn't help the corpos where use to having zero lights shined on them under Trump and they can do whatever. Where as even if most of it was toothless Biden actually did a little bit and said a few things that upset the corps
Ok everybody. New plan. Everybody vote for me. Here's my platform. Fuck EVERYBODY!!! Equally. No racism. No discrimination. You ALL get a middle finger to the face. In fact, fuck the donkey, fuck the elephant, my party emblem is a big middle finger. The fucking party. Don't you want to join the fucking party? I know you want to join the fucking party. You know how hitler had the hitler salute? Well we have giving people the finger. Thats our partys gesture. In fact, do two middle fingers! Double up, mother fuckers!
And my campaign promise? I will fuck up this country at a slower rate than these two old geezers. Actually, first day in office, my first official act as president will be to give both of them the finger.
My second act will be bacon. Just.....just bacon.
Don’t forget Kim Jong Un. “Beautiful” letters.
Lots of people have a problem with Trump. All the more reason to want someone opposing him who can beat him.
Who do you have in mind?
I don't understand how this is supposed to be like some 'gotcha' question. Biden wasn't a strong candidate in 2016 and lost to Hillary, who then lost to Trump. He wasn't a strong candidate in 2020 which is why he barely squeaked by Trump to victory. He's an even worse candidate in 2024 which is why Trump again has a shot at the presidency.
None of this is new information and the party has has nearly a decade to find a good candidate, yet they keep foisting some of the most unlikable people upon us election afrer election after election. It almost seems as if they're doing it on purpose at this point. It's not our fault that they've waited until the 11th hour to listen to the complaints and even acknowledge what we've all been saying for years. If Biden loses again, maybe stop looking at leftists to blame and start looking at the people in charge of this private organization deciding the fate of us all.
there is 333 milion people in the us. roughly 1/4 of them is of sufficient age and pro-democracy. one of them has to be able to put together coherent sentence.
Anybody but Biden. Kamala seems to be the expected replacement, that works. If not her, pretty much anyone else. Trump is a terrible candidate. While he has experience in show business, he's way past his prime and pretty much any person should be able to beat him in a debate at this point.
I was actually recently thinking through people I've known and whether they could've done a better job debating Trump than Biden did. Generally any adult with a functioning mind would do better. Adults I've known with a HS education could've crushed Trump in that debate. I'm actually not sure if a homeless guy I once debated on the street regarding the meaning of pi would do better or worse than Biden, he seemed to be at about Trump's level of sanity and if Trump won this last debate, well yeah even he'd do better than Biden. I can also think of some older teenage jocks I once knew, and while they were dumb as rocks their teenager swagger would've been more convincing than Biden's rambling failed attempts to remember rote speeches.
If I try to think of who is actually about at Biden's level, I think of myself at the age of 13, when I had a presentation in front of the class on an issue and for some reason I was struck by that early teenager nervousness, and haltingly tried to give a presentation as the class tried failingly to hide their laughter at how terribly it was going. It was probably the most embarrassing day of my life. That's Biden's level right there, because he sounded just like me back then giving that presentation. So any person in their late teens or older with a full grasp on sanity should be a much better candidate than Biden.
If he had any decency or moral, Trump should have stepped down himself.
Also, kindly remind everyone with a vagina and everyone who cares about someone with one: This year's presidential election is about abortion access. Roe vs Wade was repealed by extremist MAGA judges appointed by Trump.
If he had any decency or moral,
Trump
Lolwut
No one is asking him to drop out because they aren't afraid he's going to lose. Simple as that.
Everyone with their panties in a twist right now could have done something about it during the primaries, but apparently protest votes about Israeli atrocities were the priority.
I did vote against him in the primary so I reserve the right to have my panties in a twist. My protest vote was for another candidate.
everyone is kind of giving snarky answers with a couple helpful tidbits in between but the true answer is:
trump is polling well. current polling indicates that trump is doing good enough at what is expected of him, which at the moment is simply running a campaign that will beat the democratic candidate.
people only really start calling for dropping out en masse when polls start to significantly falter because it’s an indication that the candidate is no longer running a competitive campaign.
Yeah but the polls didn't significantly falter, they're still statistically tied with only a margin of error shift since the debate.
This isn't an organic moment of partisan reconsideration. It's being pushed by the same folks who were already loudly and obnoxiously telling us about how they don't like Joe and threatening to vote protest or skip voting because, shock of shocks, nobody primaried the sitting president and risk sowing division right before an election where the other candidate is Hitler's inbred pet mango.
I can't believe how far down I had to scroll for a genuine answer. Thank you. Have my only upvote in this thread.
I can't believe how far down I had to scroll for a genuine answer. Thank you. Have my only upvote in this thread.
One party has principles, arguably too much in some sense.
The other either just voting for them because they love tradition so much they need to vote someone conservative, just want less taxes, or outright just evil and want to see the suffering of their fellow human beings if those happen to belong to the wrong group.
Horse Race reporting, it's literally all the mainstream has to say people are concerned about because his performance actually holds up when you check the stats.
But if you dare say that people are literally being manipulated into thinking he's worse than he is you're "not understanding the median voter's struggles"
We need to force the sale of news corporations to the journalists so this profit maxxing bothsidesifying shit can go the way of the dodo.
Consolidation of US media. Billionaires will burn the world down rather than cede an inch, and it's their narratives that get amplified.
People do, you call them Biden supporters and dismiss them because “they wouldn’t vote for Trump anyway”
Or you say Trump is the reincarnation of Jesus and it’s all lies created by the devil
Because people have a slight sliver of hope that Biden might listen to them.
Because we know he won’t. It’s pointless. They both need to just fucking die.
Because, realistically, he won't listen.
Biden won't either, because he's already proved he can win this race and you don't retire a winning horse.
I keep seeing this sentiment, and it boggles me. Last season's winning horse just debuted this season with a huge limp, and the response from some people has been "it's fine, stop panicking, we'll win if we just keep betting on it."
Also, his debates last time weren't... ideal, but he at least remained awake during them!? Anyway, I'm with you: I understand someone wanting him to win, but how on earth can this be considered a done deal already?
There is a time and a place to stop all questions and get to work. But we aren't there yet!? And being ready to change one's mind based on the most current set of facts is literally the hallmark of the Age of Enlightenment, as opposed to e.g. the divine right of rulers to continue for as long as they wish to?
Trump has 88 really good reasons not to drop out. Without control of the justice system he’s going to be in jail for the rest of his life and republicans have shackled themselves to him.
I don’t know if you’ve been not paying attention but even if he’s not elected, he will never see the inside of a jail cell. Trump is untouchable. I’m not sure why, most people speculate he has dirt on some very powerful people - really serious dirt on many really powerful people. That’s only speculation, but if you recall during his first campaign he bragged about how much he was loved and worshiped he said he could walk out of Trump tower onto Fifth Avenue, and shoot someone dead in broad daylight and he would never face any consequences whatsoever. And he was right.
Biden won’t either, because he’s already proved he can win this race and you don’t retire a winning horse.
this isn't 2020. it's 2024, and a different race. Trump has had 4 years to retcon (or rather double down?) on his reputation. (whatever, he's had four years to shore up his support.). Further, in 2020... the war in ukraine hadn't started yet, neither had the Israeli genocide in gaza; the Pandemic was still on-going (and trump was fucking up left right and center on that.)
the point being, the circumstances are different and Biden has a lot of baggage he's carrying- especially lately with Gaza. As they say in stocks: Past performance is not an indicator of future performance.
It's going to be a battle, and I'm not sure Biden can win.
That said, Trump belongs in jail. (or the grave. I make exceptions for certain things. like being a rapist pedophile traitor.)
In a sane world, that should be enough for a cardboard cut out of Yogi Bear to win. I used to think that Princess Amidala being 14 and the planetary head of state was hilariously unrealistic, yet here we are hoping to elect an asshole that supports genocide because the other guy is a cartoon villain that would happily genocide his own citizens because they didn't let him do his pedophile-rape thing. It's the kind of plot Palpatine would appreciate.
This isn't 2020 though, at this point in 2020 Biden had a 8 point lead on Trump and even then he only won a narrow victory in the electoral college with Pennsylvania, Arizona and Wisconsin, now he's down by 2 points overall and down even worse in those swing states. Then he was a relative unknown and people were willing to give him a shot against the known evil of trump . Now people have gotten to see him and they do not like what they see, his approval rating is worse then Trump's was at the depths of the pandemic.
A winning horse?!
It's hard to imagine how you could pick a horse less likely to win.
Except, presumably, all the people he beat out for the nomination.
Look, I loved Dave too, but it was fiction.
You do when the Kentucky Derby is next week and it's got a broken leg
Because they don't have anybody else who can pull in his vote share.
If you want an honest answer, I'd recommend finding some place that has a decent population of openly right-wing people so you can get an answer from them directly, rather than left-wingers snarking and saying they're all brainwashed fanatics that would never dissent from the party's candidate.
The short answer is that they don't believe any of the things OP said, or they can overlook them because they believe worse things about Biden/the democrats.
Why would he drop out? His racist and nonsensical ramblings are what Republicans/conservatives/the wealthy and his base want. It's leftist and some liberals who don't want that. Which is why there are calls for Biden to drop out. That's not complicated. I barely even understand how this is a question
Because suggesting your enemy do things is meaningless.
I'd be thrilled if they both dropped out.
I think you misunderstand who is asking Biden to drop out and why.
Dems are interested in who is the DNC candidate and Republicans are interested in the GOP candidate.
Republicans as a whole are OK with Trump. He's not incredibly popular, but he has some achievements under his belt and has a relatively small but very loyal core group of voters. The average Republican believes that a) Trump has good chances of winning election and b) will likely move forward conservative policy objectives.
Therefore, why would they want him to drop out?
If we look on the other side at Biden. A growing group of people believe that he is not 100% mentally there because of his age. Because of this, not only does he a) have lower chances of winning the election but also b) is he really competent enough to be president? Sure, there's a sort of shadow administration behind him but people still put value in having a strong and mentally quick head of state.
Beyond that, there's also a small group of progressive voters who are unhappy with Biden's policies. He simply isn't a very effective leader and is one of the most unpopular presidents in US history. He's even more unpopular than Trump, who was also a deeply unpopular president.
So, people want Biden to resign because they believe other people would not only a better chance of winning election, but would be more effective leaders in terms of advancing DNC policy objectives.
Except your arguments against Biden easily apply, and more so, against trump. He is absolutely not all there, a mere three years younger, and certainly not competent (and absolutely corrupt on top of that.)
The simple answer is- people expect Republicans to be degenerates. They don't expect that of Democrats. It's nothing but a shitty double standard we've let dictate politics for decades.
You have to look at it from the GOP perspective. Trump is the most popular candidate, he managed to accomplish big ticket items in his administration, and he is more "mentally there" than Biden.
Just look at debate. Trump spoke quickly and confidently. Biden mumbles and forgets what he's talking about, stands there with mouth open staring, etc.
There's a reason in 2020 debates, polls showed most people thought Biden won the 2 debates. But in the last one, overwhelming % of people thought Trump won debates- even democratic voters.
One thing I never understand is that all I ever hear about from Republicans is how old Biden is. While being true and not that I necessarily like Biden no one ever talks about how Trump is only three years younger. Biden has to answer for his age all the time but it's not a thing Trump typically deals with
Different standards. Conservatives did this since the fall of kings, and doing this while want to reinstate them.
If the opponent messes up, they're incompetent. If they themselves, it's either someone else's problem, just part of being human, or try to cover it up with the media until everyone forgets it.
Because if Biden can't finish his term, a black woman will be president.
Because tRump doesnt stutter and plays golf like its his religion, which keeps him in decent shap for an old man, and now that he is on ozempic he is finally slimming down and looking healthy for the first time in 50 years.
Keeps him in decent shape!? Thanks for the laugh!
On top of that, it's an issue that will easily change the leanings of a lot of low-information voters. Republicans know that the 2025 agenda isn't popular with moderates, and while most of Biden's policies have been short-reaching, they're generally considered a positive (save for Gaza), so they attack at the very obvious and glaring weak point that isn't actually policy-related.
The people calling for Biden to drop out are supporters of his party, the democrats, who recognize that he’s unfit and incapable of winning. They want him to be replaced by someone else to increase their party’s chances of victory.
No one is calling for trump to drop out because he’s looking more fit in comparison to Biden and he’s projected to win. No one would call for a candidate to drop out when they’re in the lead if they support that candidates party.
Criminal allegations, true or false, don’t enter into it because America has a two tiered justice system where the wealthy and powerful are less beholden to the law than the rest of us and because presidency requires the violation of myriad international laws, norms and human rights.
The job title might as well be War Criminal in Chief and none of the allegations leveled at trump are disqualifying.
I don't actually think that statement is true. Polls are notoriously wrong all the time, and the members of the Democratic Party requesting he drop out are doing so because they're afraid to say otherwise. I'll give you an example. Members of the Republican party notably were very critical of Trump until they realised that to continue in the political sphere they were going to have to get along to get along when it became clear he was the front runner.
The members of the DNC who are asking for Biden to step down are doing so even though they know that no other possible candidate is likely to win. They did the same with Bernie Sanders in 2016. They aren't worried that he'll lose the popular vote. They're worried he'll lose Electoral College votes because some of them are apparently still on the fence. If they wanted to put forth another candidate they would have already. Who have they put forward to put on the ticket? No one. Because they don't have anyone else either. For them it's a no win situation and they're scared so they're trying to cover their own asses.
I actually agree with your last sentence. it's a no-win situation for the democrats and there's a seemingly growing contingent that thinks the best loss they can take is one where a new candidate or set of candidates are introduced to the electorate.
polls are wrong all the time, you're right. what does it look like if against all odds, biden wins? the man has shown himself to be incapable of cognitive function. should voters fall back on trusting his cabinet and handlers "our competent administrators, their unelected sycophants" style?
hes facing significant opposition from the other branches of government and even at the end of his life when faced with a supreme court ruling that gives him the legal go ahead to enact his administrations policies he won't do it.
that's not looking like a great second term. if he lives through it then they're the do-nothing democrats who can't accomplish their agenda and abandon their constituents, if he dies then they've got kamala who would be very funny but is incredibly disliked.
the democrats are between a rock and a hard place right now because they ran on trump being a dictatorial fascist who will crown himself god-king and now that hes going to win they're at fault for cynically using the threat of fascism to get votes instead of building the kind of base to oppose fascism that one and a quarter centuries of history would dictate or being the boy who cried wolf if it turns out there's a peaceful transition of power in 2028.
basically there's no way forward with their current messaging and platform because when trump wins and institutes american fascism (it's already here, but i'm typing from the perspective of democratic strategists) they're naive buffons who pissed away their time and resources trying to get people to vote for an inadequate candidate on a shuffling the deck chairs platform and when trump doesn't send the brownshirts into the streets and has a largely uneventful second term theyre the people who pissed away their time and resources on a candidate and platform which aren't up to the challenges we face because of orange man bad.
they're done for and the best possible outcome is an uneventful trump presidency with a smooth handover complete with "restored faith in our electoral process". in that case it's best to go ahead and start getting their benchwarmers out on the field to find out whos up to the task in 2026 and 2028.
I think you'll find that basically everyone on the left would like for Trump to step down. But it's a waste of breath to actually voice it.
I would gladly have Trump drop out. It won't happen. Trump is running to save his own ass. For my part, I have grave doubts about Biden's ability to win that have been building for a few months but came sharply into focus during the first minute of that debate.
....is this a joke?
Because conservatives are cowards. It's that simple. They are afraid of those who may challenge them.
Are you only counting insular social media bubbles like this one and/or media like CNN which takes that to be the default position and therefore doesn't repeat it ad nauseum, or do you mean you've been scoping out trumpsocial where you'd be more likely to see conservatives talking amongst themselves and so you'd be more likely to see that type of infighting? Cause maybe that's why.
Republicans have no shame
Because
- None of the above legally prevent him from running.
- Republican voters will still vote for him en masse.
It's that simple.
It's like he's a real life Zaphod Beeblebrox, only far, far worse.
Zaphod had way more rizz
Because we know he won't. He knows he's unwelcome by the majority of the people. That just makes his worshippers praise him even more.
What do you expect...Democrats ask him to step down because he's a convicted felon? He's gonna listen?
Republicans to have him step down...why? Because he said lies(that they believe) and sounded good saying them?
Biden we at least know is receptive. And he's got an amazing career behind him. Losing the presidency, as an incumbent, to Trump (the incumbent he just barely defeated four years ago when he exuded much more confidence when he spoke against him) would be a terrible way to end it.
There's nothing in the world more powerful than a good story.
The problem the Republican party seems to have right now is that it's caught in a bizarre cult of personality, where the only viable candidate is Donald Trump. Eight years have been dedicated to a man that likely won't be around for another eight due to his age and lifestyle. Donald Trump can't drop out, because to many he IS the Republican Party.
Put succinctly, if Trump were to drop out, could you realistically see him backing another candidate, without making it about himself?
In some ways it's petrifying that Trump could win. In another, it's hilarious to think that IF Trump were to lose, how would the Republicans recover in four years? Trump will never not make it about himself, and I bet he'll put himself on the ballot for as long as he can, further eroding the right.
Trump’s the perfect figurehead for MAGA, why should he drop out?
I'm honestly pretty damn mad these people got perfect representation and we get stuck with neolibs who think "yeah yeah 40 years of the same hasn't helped, but this time it will work!"
It's because Democrats are not "we." Both parties serve corporate interests.
Because being a fringe lunatic insurrectionist fascist is forgivable. Left or right, everyone either assumes Trump is so bad or so good that he is beyond criticism.
Same as it ever was. No one, left or right, expects the Republicans to change or get better.
Those are virtues to his voting base, if he can get away without accountability for all that, think of how much he can fuck over the people he claims to not like (ignore that your face is just as edible to the Chester Cheato)
How do I blacklist the word Trump so that I don't see posts like this in my feed?
Because not a single Republican has been held accountable for their actions since Nixon. Prove me wrong.
Because he'd never do it anyway.
Because everyone in America who has fuck you money (everyone, even that one rich person you like who says shit about Trump) benefit if Trump gets elected.
Every news network owner, every sports star selling sneakers, every rock star who flys a private jet, every CEO that benefits from slave labor, every single parasite in the country. They all win huge if he gets elected.
Republicans are dismantling every roadblock to them having even more money.
People talk a big game but in the end we're all greedy selfish short sighted fucks.
Not that the Democrats don't fuck people over.. but they'll at least buy us dinner and maybe use some lube.
Because people think Biden may actually do it. No one is stupid enough to believe Trump would put aside his ego long enough to consider the problems created by his extreme age.
People think Biden may actually do it? I hope I'm wrong, but I think that's pure fantasy. One ego is definitely bigger than the other, but you don't become President by being a good person.
I was so, so very wrong. And I'm quite happy about it.
Sycophants gonna sycophant.
It'd be wasted breath, really. Trump will never step down, because he's trying to remain out of prison. If he loses, then there goes any chance he had at pardoning himself for his numerous crimes. So he's not only the far and away favorite Republican candidate, but he's also highly motivated to stay in the race for personal reasons. No appeal to his sense of patriotism will work to get him to step down because he has no patriotism. He's in it for himself and himself only.
Biden, on the other hand, is just the default Democrat guy because he's the incumbent, and the party figured that'd be enough to win, and so haven't been trying very hard. And that has everybody terrified, because if he loses, then we get another 4 years of Trump, and probably never get to vote again. Basically, people are calling for Biden to step down because the stakes are way too high to fuck around.
Because nobody expected him to do anything but lie through his teeth and shit his pants.
Check and check.
I get it, Biden is old and that’s a problem
Biden was old in 2020 and that was a problem back then. In 2024, Biden is senile and that is a problem now. He failed to make coherent sentences 10+ times in a 90 minutes long debate.
At this point I do not ask Biden to drop because I like Trump. I hate Trump. I ask Biden to drop because I'm confident he can't beat Trump. Yesterday, someone leaked the poll numbers from DNC. Before the debate Biden was leading Trump by one point. After the debate Biden is trailing behind Trump by 8 points. If things move forward as they are, then Trump will be the only Republican candidate to win popular vote in the last 2-3 decades.
Because Trump is very deeply popular with a huge voter block. Going against him means he'll just point those people at you and say "this guy's bad, also probably a pedophile or some shit idk" and then your career is over.
And he knows what a pedo is, having lived it for much of his adult life
What good would it do? His "fanbase" would drown out all such requests
In addition to the other people who replied, the answer is simple:
Fear.
Look at Kinzinger.
Look at Cheny.You're labeled a rhino. Your career in politics is over. And then maybe Trump retweets that there should be a military tribunal to try you for treason.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ImT5pYdKw5g
It's worth noting that treason is one of the few crimes enumerated in the constitution.
Why?
The founding fathers were all guilty of treason to the crown. And virtually anything could be charged as treason under King George.
You have to TRY to commit treason in the US.
Trump at one point asked for a list of our spies in the field. A few weeks later they started turning up dead. Trump had met with Putin between those two events. Trump refused that any records be kept from those meetings. Draw whatever conclusion you want from that knowledge, but I personally find that disqualifying. Let alone whatever he was wanting to accomplish by keeping national secrets in his bathroom in his country club.
He also happily hosted LIV's golf tournament at Maralago. Who owns that organization? The same folks who paid Jared Kushner 2 billion dollars to "invest". The Kingdom of Saud.
Because Trump won't listen. He's a narcissistic asshole and doesn't give a shit as long he has money and power.
People are calling on Biden to step down because Biden isn't a huge fucking asshole.
The Philadelphia Inquirer has. The problem is that Donald Trump and his supporters don't care what the editorial boards of the Philadelphia Inquirer, the New York Times, or the Washington Post have to say about him.
Trump's specific faults are irrelevant to the calculation insofar as they are profound, and they are legion. Anyone who doesn't understand that he should never hold the reigns of power is damn near irredeemably ignorant/hopelessly deluded. Ideally he would keel over and land in a trash compactor.
The 2 year age gap between the two is hardly the point. If that's what you think those calling for Biden to step aside are focusing on you're not understanding what the issue actually is.
I can only speak for myself. The reason I think Biden should drop out is because I. DON'T. THINK. HE. CAN. WIN. If we need to discuss whether Biden's downfall is fair, unfounded because of x, y, or z, the product of unscrupulous conjecture, etc., etc., ok. Ultimately it hardly matters if in the end the remaining conclusion is still that I. DON'T. THINK. HE. CAN. WIN. Biden is infinitely more desirable than Trump, but if he can't pull off a victory it's more important to remedy that than barrel forward into calamity because "I thought it was clear he was going to be the nominee".
Genuinely, I don't know that I could take another Trump term, let alone the prospect of this looming fascism taking root. I would rather roll the dice than play a hand that I absolutely believe will lose.
We can disagree on this. This is a complex situation, and the stakes are high. I'm not going to pretend that I can see into the future. Whatever happens I'm hoping for the best.
Because there's no way he'll do so
Because this is a media blitz
I am actually surprised that USA can't find any better candidates. Unless it have anything to do with money/power... IMO the candidates should not matter, just follow the party line, but the president have more power than that.
The forecasts are showing that Trump is ahead and his lead increasing since the debate.
The democratic party is in a panic mode, trying to salvage the situation. That is why they are asking Biden to drop.
Oh also Biden is enabling mass murder and genocide.
1 is narcissism/cult-of-personality,
the other is cult-of-institution/inertia.
They are not identical, and not even functionally-equivalent.
_ /\ _
Because he’s winning.
The people calling for Biden to drop out are doing it for one reason: Because they fear Biden won’t win.
It has nothing to do with how moral Biden or Trump are or are not.
They are always projecting, covering, and making you look away. Most of us are saying trumpet should drop out, but his cult followers are being told what to believe by their "news" stations. Really, both should have dropped out before 2016, but here we are, with two geriatrics hoping for the best.
Because you have to beat trump since the democrats are cowards and can't even lock up someone for inciting a rebellion.
Because it's the 2024 "but her emails"
Because lemmy is predominantly far left and the far left has a hate boner for Biden and Biden alone. They seem to be completely fine knowing that if Biden doesn’t win, Trump will do FAR worse.
It’s completely fine by them though.
Why? You’ll have to ask them, but be careful, if you do it in the wrong community- you’ll get banned. So stay out of .ml, and the lunatics that mod there.
Because he's sadly going to win.
On Lemmy you'll find a lot of blind (and some not so blind) hatred for all things US.
Accelerationists want the worst case scenario for their worst imagined enemy, and voila.
because what democrats consider bug, republicans consider feature.
stop with this whataboutism. trump being piece of shit doesn't make biden good.
I mean, both trump and biden are genocidal lunatics so they should both be in prison, along with anyone who excuses them.
Mainly cuz no one cares this is all internet shit flinging. No one talking about anything will do anything besides smell their own fart.
Also people are more concerned with making sure they have enough to eat and can pay rent for the month.
It's your privilege to spend all your free time reading about politics, make sure to check it.
It's not age. It's competency. There's 100 year olds that are more competent than Biden. I'm not calling Biden stupid. I'm saying like the rest of the fkin world has been saying for the past few years, Biden's mind is degrading.
Meanwhile Trump's syphilis riddled mind is sharp as a tack?
The dude literally wears diapers.
Helluvalot sharper than Biden from what the world witnessed in that recent debate lol
Even his wife treats him like a fkin child, "ooooh muuuuh gaaawd, I am sooo proud of youuuuu!! You answered all the questions!!!"
Literally wears diapers, eh? At least the entire world isn't accusing him of literally chitting his pants.
LMAO, seriously, I couldn't give a fk less about Trump, I only like him because during his reign, the economy was popping, people were thriving, businesses were booming.. chit was glorious especially for those of us trying to get ourselves into home ownership. If another Democrat runs this country for another 4 years, we're ending up in WWIII and isolated from the rest of the world except the NATO alliance, if they don't turn their backs on us too.
He's not competent enough to run a campaign that defeats Donald Trump.
And I was told that "Beat Donald Trump" is the most important thing in the world. But now, I guess, it isn't? It's just about appeasing the ego of a senile old coot and his weird family.
Because you keep making salacious claims that can't be properly sourced instead of focusing on provable arguments.
If you are actually wondering; because most of the things you listed are exaggerations, false or not proven. They like trump because he is funny and actually goes against the people they dont like.
The main reason the common man should like him is because most of the people in power hate him and will do anything to stop him from getting elected. Unless you are super aligned with the elites agenda.
Damn, trumpoids made it to lemmy? How? Shouldn't you be spending time with your grandchildren or getting your brain melted by AI slop on facebook or something 💀
Trump doesn't care about you just as much as biden doesn't care about us.
Thats fair, but I dont really care about how much they care.
First of all, thanks for being on Lemmy. I get nothing out of it when the lefty hivemind argues against a strawman. At least you give us the real thing. Fuck gh0stcassette.
Second of all, Trump only campaigned on a populist platform in 2016. He railed against CEOs, various special interests, and other "swamp creatures" under the premise that he was going to fund his own campaign and didn't need their money. It was honestly kind of refreshing, even if he was ultimately full of shit and failed to deliver. But I haven't heard Trump's 2016 rhetoric in a long time. Not regarding the ruling class. Maybe he still says "drain the swamp" now and then, but many of those who opposed Trump in 2016, e.g. Wall Street, now largely support him, and Trump openly panders to them for their donations. It's not that people in power hate him; it's just the people you don't like in power who hate him.
Vote third party if you hate the elites.
Yeah, lemmy kind of sucks if you dont just repeat the lines you are supposed to. I am not a trump voter, the closest thing would be libertarian, but I dont like their candidate either. I dont think trump was particularly good president, but all the rest have been so bad its not a high bar to be better than Biden and Bush. I just mainly get annoyed that 80% of the things that get said are just lies or misleading, and if you point that out people freak the fuck out.