I think the real upsetting thing isn't Biden's performance, or having Biden as president for four more years. He achieved quite a bit after all. The real upsetting thing is the DNC being such cunts that they even pushed for this debate, hoping that Biden could win, only to deny and ignore Biden's abhorrent performance immediately after. That Bernie got shafted twice by them, that is the really upsetting part.
It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win. None of the shitty things that Trump wants to do will hurt them, (stupid take if they cared at all about their descendants but they’re either too arrogant or too ignorant to worry about that) but actual progressive policies that helped average people WOULD hurt their way of life. Marginally. Like, the tiniest little amount. Like, your yacht can only have one master bedroom instead of four. But why give that up when you don’t have to?
“It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it”
I’m voting for Biden though, and I’ll keep voting as progressively as possible in the down ballot elections. If a progressive movement from the bottom up can start by doing things like getting rid of FPTP, we still have a chance. And to anyone thinking about not voting, please do. The president is one person. They are the single most powerful person individually, (taking aside impact on the judicial system) but the collective impact on your day to day life is far more influenced by down ballot positions. Research your down ballot candidates and vote. Many of those races are decided by only a handful of votes. Yours matters.
DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win
This was made perfectly clear in 2016 when Hillary stole the nom by colluding with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.
If people haven’t caught on by now, they haven’t been paying attention. Or are just willfully ignorant.
It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win.
It's not in their interests to let a progressive win. Just like their counterpart, the DNC takes a shit ton of
briberydonations fromcorporationslobbyists. Bringing in a progressive who would reform the system or push back against pro-corporate policies is biting the hands that feed them.DNC should've started promoting someone else as Presidential candidate since the last 4 years and let Biden work quietly in the background.
They could be rotten from the inside as well, knowing full well how it would go
I wouldn’t be surprised
https://youtu.be/aDfp-QsH51w?t=2018
Sorry, Piped and other frontends isn't working right now, so you'll have to use normal YouTube or go through VLC.
Or simply have YouTube links redirected to NewPipe.
The title of this video is “An Anarchistic Watches West Wing” or something similar. I only watched 20mins but it was good so far. It’s a criticism of the American Capitalist system, American Democracy (power of the president, presidential hero worship), etc. via the way it’s portrayed in the West Wing.
Democratic Nation of Congo?
Democratic National Committee.
I am a tankie and voting for Biden lmao. The Prolitariat must be protected till enough class conciousness is achieved for Socialism to succeed.
You sound like a rational tankie, which by the definitions that lemmies have explained to me, would make you not a tankie.
You get it! We can't fuck over vulnerable people. We can't abandon minorities and LGBT people. Even if we let things get worse to the point of a societal collapse, a lot of people will die because of it -- and societal collapse has not historically led to better societies down the road.
Right? Imagine it's a fucking Saw Trap, and there's an easy way out without sacrificing anyone... and an equally easy way out sacrificing everyone. Make the less sociopathic choice.
I can’t even imagine how awful the people who fill that vacuum would be.
Biden is literally arming a genocide. He was even adamant about his continued support for that. Meanwhile Dems led cities have brutally beaten up peaceful colelge protests and invited fascist MAGA mobs to attack minority students there.
The DNC and Biden do not protect minorities. They are white supremacists with just a bit more moderation to the means they employ, but they will absolutely resort to authoritarian crackdowns if they feel the minorities to step out of line by demanding justice and rights.
Most based .ml user
Based and practicalpilled
Thank you for being a sane human 🙏
This is the way.
On one hand I'd like it if the Democrats put up someone more certain to beat Trump. On the other Joe has shown he supports labor and things are moving in the right direction in that regard. I'd hate it if he we get a corpo Democrat that halts this progress.
Oh my god! A tankie who's not fucking stupid. I never thought I'd see the day.
The Prolitariat must be protected
By consenting to corruption and a path to WWIII. That is not protecting them, in fact it is ensuring them a terrible future. If you cared about them, you would vote, volunteer, donate, and support the PSL, CPUSA, or Green party instead.
Lmao the green party isn't going to do jack shit. They're completely unserious about politics. They aren't even trying to build up an infrastructure in all 50 states that lets them get suffused into local and state politics. They aren't even aiming for Congressional seats, which would be necessary for an actual Green president to get anything done.
They're just anti science grifters who think wifi causes cancer, entertain vaccine skepticism, and demonize nuclear energy -- the latter of which could be a major asset to stopping global warming. Newer designs are even able to consume nuclear waste, meaning an anti nuclear position results in more waste than we would otherwise.
None of those parties have a ghost of a chance of winning, and with as razor thin as the win margins were in 2016 and 2020, I'm not confident Biden will win if we don't vote for him. I sincerely hope I do not have to explain why Trump would be worse on literally every issue (especially Gaza) than Biden is.
I'd vote for ToS era Pike over Trump. I'd vote for a candidate who only communicates via ouija board over Trump. I'd vote to not have a president for 4 years before I'd vote for Trump.
It's crazy that Trump can get convicted of fraud, be found liable for sexual assault, promise to abuse presidential power to get revenge against those who cross him, actively undermine both national and global security, promise to round up millions and put them into camps, attempt to overthrow the election and refuse to not try it again, and so on, and his side is still so loyal they'll wear solidarity diapers for him.
I'm so down for ouija board prez.
Ouija board prez 'channeling' FDR: T-A-X-T-H-E-R-I-C-H-Goodbye
lol
He is like a cult's leader, they can do no wrong. People's belief in him is unflappable.
I'd vote for a candidate who only communicates via ouija board over Trump.
Give it a few months
Maybe they can settle for one of those wheelchair computers that tracks your eyes looking at the letters.
I’d rather have an empty chair than Trump.
I'd vote to not have a president for 4 years before I'd vote for Trump.
And now I'm curious how many things depend on having a president at all, and what his role is, by design, in the US and other countries.
Cabinet and federal appointments are the big thing. That's why I'll take Biden over Trump. I'm not just voting for him, I'm voting for the 4000 jobs in energy, health, labor, transportation, etc. to be run by Democrats, liberals, and qualified people.
Trump, and project 2025 plan to fill all those roles with right wing nutjobs who will do anything to please the right. On top of those 4000, they'd expand the presidential appointment power to fire up to 45% of the federal workforce. Meteorologist who said the hurricane won't hit Alabama? GONE! Doctor who said injecting bleach was a bad idea? FIRED!
I'll take anyone who won't put Project 2025 in motion.
Didn't we have a ouija board as a president back when Nancy's psychic was running the show?
No, you fools, the divine spirits of the stars are different than ghosts!
Might be a cool (edit: or probably cringy, given current democrats) meme campaign, listing all the things that are better than Trump one by one. You could have a new one every day until the election day easily.
You realistically could name 100 per day and still not run out of ammo.
I’m voting Brandon but let’s not pretend he didn’t shit the bed. It was fucking awful. Brandon should fuck off, but I’d vote for a corpse over any republican, and that will probably be true for the rest of my life.
It's funny how the standard by which we judge Biden is so high, and the standard for Trump is so low. Like... "oh wow, orange man form complete sentence, he's really killin it" vs "omg Biden stumbled over his words and had one bad night, his candidacy is over".
Stop fuckin strawmanning, jesus
Technically I'm voting for Biden, in reality I'm voting against Trump. I really wish I had a better option...
Outside of voting, you have options. I'm not American, but I'd advise any communists to vote Biden simply because the repression under Trump could get really ugly, hindering any proper organisation. Just view it as what I think it also actually is: A cynical, pragmatic move to save you and other working people from more open repression, nothing more.
But before and after voting: Put your energy into unions like the IWW, into neighbourhood organisations for mutual aid, into community defense like the SRA or Redneck Revolt, into antifascist organisation, into refining your own position and presenting it to others. Create networks and connections. All preventing Trump is doing is buying time for now to do exactly that. Things will only get worse in the decades ahead, with no end in sight for the climate catastrophe and further decay of capitalism - and laying the groundwork of actually being able to do something is critically important right now, in my opinion.
Of course everyone is in the end their own master when it comes to decisions like this. Just - remember that by not voting in this specific election you also aren't changing anything. And while I fully understand the desire to organise for a third party, they have been marginalised effectively, at least I personally don't think electoral politics will bring any relevant changes, one way or the other. They are just about who carries the whip used against you, and in this case if the are openly and harshly, or covertly and less efficiently using it.
That all being said - I think a few people here overestimate the amount of tankies and communists that won't vote Biden. The group is marginal in the big scheme of things. If Biden loses, you can be certain, they were not responsible, they are most likely less than 1% of voters. Personally, I'd blame the corporate core of the Democratic party and middle class liberals for being out of touch with reality.
If Biden loses, you can be certain, they were not responsible, they are most likely less than 1% of voters
Nah, they'll blame us the same way they blame us for losing the 2016 general election. We are simultaneously too small to matter but able to turn the tide of the largest election in the United States.
Don't we all? .. I think very few people would choose Biden absent it being necessary to avoid the hellscape guaranteed by not voting for him
I’m voting party for socialism and liberation and you can too. They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel.
For me there’s no better time to start building a new American political formation. If the democrats wise up and snap left when they see the third party/lack of turnout then that’s fine too.
The left got so close to taking the DNC in 2016 they had to go to court to affirm their right to tell the left to eat a dick regardless of voters or donations, and now they're pushing legislation to strip the red tape from taking away nonprofit status from leftist orgs. Dems are running scared and it has their faschie flag flying high (see op disinformation campaign claiming anyone who dislikes biden is a 'tankie')
Of course, even though they've spent more time attacking the left than they EVER have Republicans they'll be happy to place the singular blame on us then march further right so they can shocked pikachu when the left doesn't vote for them then either.
So, take this point of view as what it is: a view on the situation from an outsider, I am not American, I am a German communist. While I do probably look more closely at American politics than most likely the average American simply from being interested in politics to a pathological degree, I might not have the full picture of an American who is also as interested in politics.
I think in this particular moment, as much as the Democrats do their best to antagonise you, as much as you are correct that someone like Biden will continue with the same status quo bullshit that created the situation to begin with, as much as he won't be helping the people suffering from (neo)-colonialism in a meaningful way overseas - I don't think that this particular election is the time to vote third party. The chance may come, and best then to do it not as individuals based on your personal conscience, but as an organised group, with concrete messaging communicated. And even in other elections and outside this vote, organising for a third party - while I personally don't have a lot of hope for electoral politics - is certainly better than investing energy into the Democratic party, whose supporters seem to have no problems spewing hatred towards you for not agreeing with their party line and view of reality.
But I think underestimating Trump could be genuinely dangerous. Not because he will "ruin America" or anything like that. Simply, because he will be in a position to dial up repression, potentially leaving you with a situation in 2-4 years, where the party you voted for has to move underground, either having gotten outlawed or further marginalised and infiltrated. The situation looks critical enough to me, that under a Trump presidency, unions and leftist orgs will face open persecution much more than under someone like Biden - who is admittedly bad enough. Persecution up to outright criminalising them, to encouraging right-wing militias to kill their members with a slap on the wrist as a consequence or no legal repercussions at all. Yes, I do think that is unfortinately a realisitic possibility. And at this point, I don't think leftist orgs in the US have the resilience yet to efficiently organise in the underground.
That being said, I won't tell you a vitriolic "you will be at fault" if you choose to vote and organise as you want to. I do also see advantages, like getting visibility for your issues and potentially by reaching certain threshholds getting public funding support and the likes (that exists in the US too, right?). But I'd still advise it in this election - as shitty and cynical as it is - to vote for the old fart that doesn't swing the whip of the state as hard on your back as the one that might outright strangle you with it. Getting a proper communist, grassroots organisation running in the United States is important for the whole world, and I fear it will be impossible, or at least much, much harder under Trump (mostly, again, because there are no proper structures in place to move into illegality and organising underground, from everything I can tell.)
How does de la Cruz intend to stop arms shipments without any congressional representation to push legislation to do so?
If Congress says money must be spent on sending Israel weapons, then the president has to follow that in some capacity. The president could try to stop shipments, but that would result in a swift court case, and the president would be compelled to continue sending weapons. The executive branch has discretion in how to do so, but it unfortunately does not have the authority to end it.
You need Congress if you're going to stop all shipments. Alternatively I suppose you could try to have the judiciary in your favor, but that means de la Cruz now needs the Supreme Court on her side.
It's a complete misconception in American society and politics that the president can do anything. They're certainly the most powerful single individual, but Congress is still much stronger.
The Party for Socialism and Liberation would be much better served trying to win Congressional races so they can push for bills to end weapon shipments. If they could take a number of strong Republican districts with their message, it would give them a lot more influence.
What I've seen so many people not understand with the situation we are in right now, is that we can't fix our current situation in one election. Everything is far to tucked up for that, so the best that can be done is vote for the least fucked up option and work to improve things. People refusing to participate or vote for the candidate who is unfortunately our best option currently (biden) are doing more damage than the people voting for the fascist party. The perfect candidate/option does not exist and never will (obviously not saying everything biden has done has been good).
Forget a perfect candidate. Just go back and watch the 2012 debate and both Obama and Mitt Romney were infinitely better than Joe Biden or Trump.
But they never told me which of them was the better golfer.
God it feels stupid to write that and it being an actual argument during a presidential debate.
People do understand that concept, but it's literally what Democrats have been doing for the past 40 years and it has put us right here where we are right now. The "lesser of two evils" thing just has no propellant left, no one is buying that line anymore. Neoliberalism needs to go before Democrats can start winning again.
You need to understand that people have been saying "just put the neolibs in power again and we'll work to improve things" every election cycle, and now we are closer to fascism than we've literally ever been. You at least understand why people see that strategy as a failure, right? Like, you understand why no one believes it anymore?
A vote for neoliberals is a vote to not have fascism for four more years. America's voting system doesn't allow the never-have-fascism votes to be pooled with the delay-fascism votes, so unless there's a decent chance for a mass swing of voters from delay-fascism to never-have-fascism, trying to encourage a small-scale swing only makes immediate fascism more likely by weakening the only thing with a chance to delay it.
If the plan is to try and encourage the Democrats to have primaries that actually have the power to move the party left, now is not the time to withhold a vote in protest as there's a good chance that even if it did convince them, there'd never be another election that wasn't rigged so they'd lose it no matter how popular they were.
I mean all the concerned people could take to the streets right now.
The DNC wants you to believe that all you can do is cast your vote for something every other year and just take the options presented. In that sense they are worse than the Reps who encourage their base to be active for more than just the ballots and it is working.
Especially now the Dems give me huge 1984 vibes in how the individual should handle politics relative to the party.
so the best that can be done is vote for the least fucked up option and work to improve things.
Democrats were good at the first part, but not the second. I remember lots of Dems saying "Vote for Biden, and then we'll hold his feet to the fire!" Well, there was no "holding his feet to the fire", because that's seen as enabling Trump.
The perfect candidate/option does not exist and never will
Yes, but there are candidates who are better, such as Jill Stein and Cornel West. You can't vote for a perfect candidate, but you can vote for the best candidate.
You need to also vote for someone who actually has a chance to win. Voting for a better candidate who realistically can't win in elections like this were someone like Trump could win is basically handing Trump the win. His base doesn't think for themselves, and would vote for him if he killed their family in front of them. I wish to God we had Bernie instead of Biden, but Bernie wouldn't have won.
Biden is simply not our best option.
What exactly makes a geriatric 81 year old the most fit person for the job?
There is plenty of time to get a new candidate.
Not having enough time and voting for the least fucked candidate is old and tired. How long do we vote for the Turd over the Douche instead of voting for someone that we actually believe in?
Also, I can't justify genocide.
are doing more damage than the people voting for the fascist party.
Hooooooly fuck this gets 27 upvotes? There it is folks. Leftists are doing more damage by refusing to vote than the people who stormed the capitol. This hot take brought to you by lemmy.
The Republican party wouldn't exist if everybody voted. That is a straight up fact. As fucked as our election system is, they are far enough the minority that if everyone got out, the EC wouldn't matter.
You want a "left light" and a "true left", you aren't going to get it by abstaining, or by voting for nonviable moonshot third-party candidates. You are going to get it by abolishing the far right party and making that tiny sliver of the whole population realize that their antiquated views aren't welcome here.
They need to be crushed.
They only exist because people don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils, so instead they just don't vote. And what do you know, a -1 for the less evil is just as effective as a +1 for the more evil.
All of their success is brought on by feeding apathy in their opposition, making it more difficult to vote, destroying any faith in the system, and gerrymandering.
So yes, in my opinion, the far left refusing to hold their nose for a few minutes may as well be voting for the insurrectionist.
33 after I just upvoted. Vote for the Joe.
Who said that? No one said that refusing to vote is doing more damage than storming the Capitol.
You quoted it. Weird starting point to gaslight people.
People refusing to participate or vote for the candidate who is unfortunately our best option currently (biden) are doing more damage than the people voting for the fascist party.
Incredible take. "Say what you will about fascists, at least they support the two party system."
Just because you are still voting Biden, doesn't mean you don't care.
It just means you still don't want the raving malignant narcissist Trump.
Any somewhat normal person would be the obvious choice over Trump. Any person who is not clearly a traitor to USA and Democracy would be preferable to Trump.I don't know about the "traitor" thing. Edward Snowden would definitely make a better president than Trump.
Snowden verifiably paid a higher price while serving the interests of the people. Sacrificed far more than Trump ever has or will. He was a fairly connected govt contractor living in Hawaii, living a good life before he had to flee.
Yeah some treason is cool
Like, yes, Trump is a traitor, but the real problem is he did it for the wrong treasons, making him trash.
This is some weird ass propaganda.
The best thing that Biden ever did was just to not be Trump.
Why are these memes so weirdly die-hard in the support of a man that is visibly unfit for the 4 years of presidency?
No one is actually excited about old Joe. It's just that he's simply not Trump.
It would be best if he steps down so that we can get a person in office that actually excites people for more than just not being the other guy.
Why don't they seal the deal with anyone younger ? Surely there's one better young person in the USA ?
Surely there’s one better young person in the USA ?
None of them ran. Biden's admin and his fund raising base held enormous sway over the party at-large. As soon as he corralled the support of this tiny monied elite, everyone else had to either get in line or get marked as party pariahs and ousted for their disloyalty.
The pastiche of democracy is predicated on a primary system that can produce and sustain rival candidates. But when leadership in the party are terrified of "Russian bots" and "Leftist Antifa Agitators" undermining the general election, they circle the wagons around their incumbents and bow down to their mega-donors out of cowardice.
No rival candidates means no real primary means no one actually challenges Biden on his merits.
I'm sure that herding behind a senile will give the Democratic Party the incentive to reconsider their corporate-oriented outlook /s
Really, if the Dems brought in someone who was like... 50 (and probably not Newsom owing to prolonged hateboner for Cali) they'd gain 10 points in the polls immediately. Whether true or not, the narrative that Biden is old and doddering is there and that debate performance did nothing to dissuade it.
He had a cold, okay. /s
"I just don't get why people would like 'not' being set on fire. Like, it's just a little fire, what are you, combustible fats wrapped in flammable organic fabrics? I guess it's simply that it's not being set on fire that they like. It's so weird and frustrating."
The best thing that Biden ever did was just to not be Trump.
The economy is booming.
It's just that he's simply not Trump.
I'm not sure you realize just how big of a single issue this is.
Trump is a psychopathic cult leader running a campaign of lies, defamation, and retribution. He aspires to be the US's first authoritarian leader, and wants to turn the nation into a nuclear armed Switzerland. He wants to keep inflation high so that corporate America can continue to enrich the few at the expense of the many. He is literally telling business prices will continue to rise, while simultaneously promising the public that he will bring "Biden's" high prices down. It's utter madness.
Because he is "not Trump" could not be a deeper reason to vote for Biden. Especially when not voting or voting for a third party candidate effectively empowers Trump's campaign and the many more on the right who will always vote for their team no matter what.
I'm voting against Trump. Not thrilled to have a president who might have to have his Oval Office relocated to a nursing home.
I don't expect either to last 4 more years. Especially Trump.
If Trump does win and dies while destroying the world, imagine what younger dictator would follow...
I'm more afraid of a smarter asshole. Trump's the starting gun.
Yeah, some ppl don't get that you don't have to like Biden, to vote against trump. 🤷♂️
You mean you don't have to like Kamala? I'm voting Kamala.
Not fond of her, but she'll do better than Trump by leagues and miles and make history while not rocking the boat or affecting any meaningful change. Libs will love her, she'll be a democrat party darling. I bet she gets a second term.
Yeah, I feel like people are freaking out and ignoring that Biden (and Trump) are largely the people they surround themselves with, and the policies they push.
They've both been president for years.
The boyfriend last night was surprised I didn't watch the debate.
"They've both been president. I was paying attention. I know what their presidencies will be like. Why listen to them talk about it?"
That's a very good point. The president is in charge of appointing a lot of other people that are more important for making decisions.
This isnt a dig at him but Biden probably hasnt made a single decision without heavy guidance by all the people around him. This is always the case to a degree i assume, but probably even more with senile people like him. It just makes the whole concept of a president so nonsensical.
This is what Germany in 1929 was - without social media.
I mean the alternative is literally fascism. Not the silly internet "fascism" that's just about someone that disagrees with you that you perceive is right of you on some silly made up political spectrum. Actual full blown fascism.
So yeah you need to vote for Joe Biden.
Well when the only other vote is fascism, hate, and bullying... Yeah we're gonna vote for the not ridiculous choice.
fuck off Yanks, stop making every post about you
Bloody ell fooking wankers. We will throw your shit in harbor, you better stop playing you tea sipping global citizen 😋
Íf he wore a clown suit and only spoke Pig-Latin during the debate.... considering the alternative
He would STILL be the only viable candidate worth voting for
But NOOOOO both sides both sides lalalaa can't hear you both sides lalalaa /s
In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.
-Hannah Arendt, German-American philosopher and political theorist, in fuckin 1964 lmao. some things never change!
I've been called many names, including "tankie", so I'll take a stab at responding.
I'm not mad about the debate at all. I expected something fairly similar. I'm mad that Biden and the Democratic leadership seems to have put their own interests above the interest of the
partypeople (edit: Ugh. Terrible typo).If Biden had gracefully stepped aside and given just about any other Democrat his full support, we'd be in a much better position now. Instead we have a candidate with a ton of baggage and who presents an easy target for Trump's style of argument. Many mainstream Democrats, including the NYT, are finally starting to realize this. Unfortunately it's probably a year too late. At this point it would just make it look like Demoratic kingmakers forced him out.
If I went by the modern definition of "tankie" as, an anti-american authoritarian communist. I probably wouldn't be mad at any of this. I'd be cackling with glee because either of the current nominees will be terrible for the US. Neither of them has a serious long term plan. Neither of them can articulate a policy position. Both of them will continue to erode the power and moral authority of the United States.
Like it or not. Trump is likely to be the next president https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/. At this point it's probably wise to start thinking about how to limit his impact and how to start cleaning up the mess afterwards.
I'm mad that Biden and the Democratic leadership seems to have put their own interests above the interest of the
partypeople.The interests of the party is the interests of the rich :)
It was a typo. I meant to say that the Democratic leadership seems to have put their and their parties interests above those of the people but I wanted to avoid editing my post too much.
Step 1: Flee the country
Step 2: Laugh at all the idiots getting what they deserve
Step 3: Get nuked anyways
Step 1: Flee the country
Good luck doing that. It's a bitch to live just about anywhere else you'd actually want to live without citizenship.
Biden still owes me $600
Damn right he does.
Would be nice to have a candidate who stands for something other than "he's not the other guy" or "I'm sticking it to [group]!"
Isn't that Biden? He sees himself as a desirable candidate and stands for his own stuff. It's the supporters who often stand for nothing more than fascism slower.
Jill Stein
We got to bruh, the shit Trump & MAGA are planning for 2024 is wild.
Still voting Biden, but this feels an awful lot like many past elections where people are holding their nose and voting for a candidate they don’t necessarily like just because they really don’t like the other candidate: Bush v Gore, Bush v Kerry, Clinton v Trump. Those elections never seem to turn out good.
I see the coping, Biden is cooked and the election is Lost.
Liberals are self-infecting a loss, and are blindingly running into a wall, the smack will be heard from outer space.
I think what will DEFINITELY help is all the immature passive aggression, like this post, that manifests when anyone dares to suggest they might have an issue they need to fix.
/s, in case that wasn't clear
Yeah.. sure. Not a tankie, I'm European and don't care about influencing you to vote for one or another. But after seeing Biden "debate" Trump I know the dems are fucked. I mean sure, still go out and vote, but I honestly don't see many people doing so.
Absolutely go vote. Tell everyone you know to vote. Don't vote for Trump. But for the love of god, if you're otherwise not going to vote, at least vote third party.
It's honestly extremely sad that the primary requirement to be a leader is "ability to speak perfectly on stage for 2 hours."
It should be a basic requirement of literally any public office. That fact that we have got this far baffles me utterly.
Yeah it's not great, but like... coming across as coherent is important no matter the position. Biden kinda failed that basic competency test, probably just due to his age and not like, stupidity or a personal failing of any kind. I'm still voting for Biden, but yeah it's not exactly an enthusiastic vote.
The Dems are intentionally throwing it. It's the only thing that makes sense at this point. The "Not Trump" donations are lucrative, and there's no way the R's will make insider trading illegal.
This might be the spark we need for a legitimate progressive party though. Or we get a civil war, who knows.
Biden supporters on the Internet are the worst thing that could happen to Biden.. and they say Tankies are doing Trump's work for him
"Biden wins the election. Here's why that's bad for Biden."
At this point I doubt tankies should be much of a concern. What are they, 1-2% of the potential Dem voter base? I'd sooner worry about the indecisive ones who have seen the performances in the debate.
Exactly. More specifically, I'm not afraid of how people vote, I'm afraid of people choosing not to.
What are they, 1-2% of the potential Dem voter base?
Add a .000 in front of those numbers and you might be right. If those numbers were accurate you would expect somewhere between, what...1 and 2 million tankies in the US alone?
We need all the votes we can get.
No, see, that would mean there are people out there who disagree with me who aren't either tankies or maga, and that impossible because that would mean... that would... oh no...
Jesus has my vote..no not him! Jesus Gonzalez from Colombia..He did my cabinets and all I can say is....WELL WOULD YOU JUST LOOK AT THAT
Sometimes you just hafta look at it
What is that from? Just reading what you wrote cracked me up.
Maybe we don't associate Biden with fascism frog
If we let the fascists claim any symbol they want, we will have nothing left.
Pepe was just a depressed frog boi. Pepe is only fascist if we let the fascists win
I used to joke back in 2014 that if Milo Yian-whatever, Ben Shapiro and Gavin McInnes just had a biweekly meeting and decided on a hand sign, an image and a word to use heavily in social media for the following month that everything could be made into a dogwhistle within a year.
Go ahead and get a few swastika tattoos then
He's already associated with support for genocide.
Pepe and his variations never represented any political ideology. The only thing that Pepe and Wojak represent is the internet
Is this loss?
No one minds you voting for Biden believe it or not. We do mind being demonized and straw-personed for not voting for him.
Do you understand why you are being demonized though? You're making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better, but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout.
You want to make a difference? Great! There's a lot of ways to do that. Campaign and fundraise at the local and state level. Push for election reform, ranked choice voting, end to gerrymandering, term limits, electoral college reform, curtail lobbying... any number of things, and push for them more often than once every four years. Voting third party in a presidential election does NOT help.
If you want my respect, acknowledge the reality of the situation and vote for the best option (or the least bad option) among the viable candidates and then work for change within the system. It sucks that we are in this situation, but make a choice grounded in the real world, not a fake ideal world.
If you want my respect
I don't.
Voting for the stunt double from weekend at Bernie's does not grant you superiority.
Most of us have been voting in the primaries and are involved in local politics. It didn't matter. The R/D machine drowns out all opposition to its duopoly.
Biden will not win this election. Democracy died while he confusedly stared into the camera for 6 seconds. Beyond that, he fumbled his closing statement which should disqualify from any public speaking position.
Trump is inevitable. We did all we could to get an alternative to Biden, but his hubris will destroy us.
You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better
If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn't be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it.
I think Biden does want our vote. And we're telling him that if he wants our vote, he has to stop the genocide. That's how we can use our vote to influence the government. That's how democracy is supposed to work.
but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout
There are real and vulnerable people dying in Gaza right now because of what Biden is doing.
Well said, „Radio Free Arabia“ 😂
You vote for fascism if you dont vote for him so you deserve it.
using a pepe to post this is letting the mask slip a bit there bud.
The original image even says "don't care, still voting trump" this is just an edit changing it to biden. Both democrats and republicans can agree on punching to the left. Of course, democrats have to use dog whistles like calling them all "tankies" just like how republicans love to discriminate against minorities while making references to them as "inner city youths" or whatever.
Classic BlueMAGA play
I suspect BlueMAGA are Trump-to-Biden voters. Like this is Project Lincoln bullshit.
Good to know Democrats aren't interested in winning the left vote anymore
Leftists - making progress the enemy of perfection and fucking themselves over since always.
Look on the bright side: a vote for Biden is really just a vote for Kamala Harris with extra steps.
Harris is a joke and a cop that made her name on being super hard on small criminal offenses.
She ain't it. I mean, have you heard the weird things that she says while she's speaking?
She's a terrible candidate. A somehow even worse Hillary.
Yeah, but is that supposed to make us feel better?
I wonder how many of the dyed-in-the-wool DNC supporters would stay home or vote third party if Biden wasn't the candidate chosen at the convention.
This is the thing. People like to blame Berniebros and whatnot for Clinton's loss in '16, but the reality is that the centrist Democrats that vote for the party's corporate-backed candidate wouldn't vote for a progressive one, so even if Bernie had won the nomination, he probably still would have lost because he would have lost the support of these DNC hardliners. I heard people literally say in '16 that if Bernie had somehow won the nomination over Hillary that they would have just stayed home. It's wild to think how ideologically balkanized the Democratic party is, with so many people fervently belonging to the leftist minority that holds their nose every election to vote for another mediocre person whose best attributes are being "not an outright fascist" versus the people who will never vote for a truly left wing candidate because they're fiscally conservative but socially liberal and just allergic to compromising in the same way that they've forced the leftists in their party to do since forever.
What is sad is the American people DID vote for progressive policy. The problem is American politicians represent their donors, and turned their backs on their constituents.
There is no expectation for an elected Democrat to align with their party platform. Likewise no one can or should expect a Republican to break from their party. Any reliance on either is a fool's errand.
I mean about 70% of Americans support at least a public option for health insurance. Yet there is no pathway forward for 70% of Americans with either party.
So it sucks that such an intransigent faction isn't even representative.
You address this to tankies. I see very few of them around here these days.
Cringe karma post.
They're trying to conflate anyone who isn't in full support of Biden as a tankie. It's more of the same from the last year that's been used to shut down any debate or criticism.
I will never vote Democrats!
Since I do not intend to move to the US but I vote the lesser of several evils here in Europe
The dying geriatric insane old pedophile or the dying geriatric insane old pedophile who is being used to enact Project 2025
Decisions, decisions...
Voting Biden!
Giving Hexbear aura. Could be shittier though, too much corn 🌽
No ones mad at you for voting you dweeb, some people just wont vote for him, the debate changed nothing.
I'm a tAnKiE and I dont even get a vote, pretend youre voting for me, have at it.
I am starting to think tankies part of another troll from. No way these idiots can be for real.
There's a lot of money in propaganda. It's everywhere now.
Some of them are useful idiots, some are shills using LLMs to push agendas.
Putin actually is on the record that he prefers Biden as he's more predictable.
LOOOOOOOOL
Dems don't have a platform or a personality without Trump to lord over anyone they don't like, but will take Trump over moving an inch left 100/100 times
did the image originally say trump? or is it from 2016 and said bernie? or maybe even ron paul?
BuT tHaT mEaNs yOu LovE gEnOcIdE.
That's what extra militant Joffrey says so it must be true.
Why are so many biden supporters arguing like a grade schooler. "YeAh WeLl ThIs Is HoW yOu SoUnD"
It's just because we LOOOOOVE genocide /s
💤💤💤💤💤💤 nememene 💤💤💤💤💤💤 nememene 💤💤💤💤💤💤 🥱😌 a uh I uh a hmm? I skibdi with um hairy legs turn blonde... COVID dealing with uh....... everything hmmm... we had to uh deal with uh....... OOOooorereaaaa if we finally beat Medicare...... Finally beat Medicare
"Old man bad. His alternative not worse."
Are u a secret Republican or something?
no old man funny
I will cast my vote between tears but nobody ever promised preserving democracy will always make you feel good.
In fact, I am close to launching into a really hard condemnation of every last one of you lazy-ass motherfuckers who expect everything to always play out like a 2-dimensional anime plot where you're the good guy so you're supposed to always feel good, and any struggles are easily overcome, and if it doesn't play out like that, then you go full doomer-mode and grab your soapbox to preach how pointless life is just because you're lonely but too scared to talk to a girl. Go back to your discord safe-spaces and let adults out here make the hard choices.
Okay? Oddly specific
Your ignorant use of tankies is what bothers me the most. I already knew you'd vote dumbly no matter what, Blue MAGA. 🙄
An administration is more than a man, Trump with absolutely 0 political experience was able to keep the country rolling, albeit making awful decisions, then the current mental state of Biden means very little. Having said that, as someone who watched my grandfather pass from Alzheimer's, it's really sad to see.
Don't care, still voting Stein.
Then you're a fool. Nobodies like her do not get randomly seated at Putin's table without a reason.
why would i be mad for you wasting your time? go right ahead.
Exactly, why did they feel the need to tell us?
It was just a honeypot. Served its purpose.
Still drawing the line at genocide. Hate me.
It’s just kinda dumbass, since the other guy is going to do so much worse. Like, if you value human life, you should draw the line at the putz who’s going to kill the fewest people. You can piss and moan all you want, but before you lies a binary choice. There’s nothing you can do to change that.
I assume you are referring to supplying weapons to Israel, in which case, do you think Trump (who called Biden a 'Palestinian' as an insult during the debate) will be the better choice and stop supplying weapons to Israel?
okay so vote for trump who will give even more to israel, great plan, very thought out.
Hypothethical imaginary situations that are supposed to scare Leftists or other sensible individuals into toeing the dem party lines are false and useless
i keep seeing this analogy and conclusions pop up everywhere on here over the last three months and I'm think a neo-liberal developer has unleashed a host of bot accounts that parrot their party's propaganda on Lemmy
....I struggle to see how any sane individual would vote for either option. Or allow their emotions to be unnerved by "politics". It is also concerning that more people are not aware of how the electoral process works. The popular vote bickering with one another while both sides laugh at you.
Please stop making decisions rooted in "the lesser of". If you can pick between the "lesser of two evils" its because you've got evil in you...
...Someone is going to watch your child and you're given two choices: one is a convicted pedophile and the other is a convicted murderer.....
.. for some of us, there is no choice to choose from. Even under duress we have free will. A gun to my head might influence my decision making, I still made a decision....I could have decided otherwise.
I wont get worked up over political theater. It's more agonizing to witness them play the same trick, generation after generationn and yall keep drinking the kool-aid 🫤
The problem with your pedophile vs murderer analogy is that Biden and Trump are not equally bad. Trump is a drastically worse choice than Biden. It's not even remotely close.
You can choose not to vote and try to wash your hands of the whole situation, but they will never be clean. If you don't vote and Trump wins, that's on your hands too.
Biden has pushed plenty of problematic legislation to further dismantle and demonize anybody further left than mid right establishment democrats and third parties in general - plus continuing to not actually DO ANYTHING to stop the ones they claim to he the "last line of defense" from or to codify the issues they claim to protect - but y'all don't mind fascism that doesn't affect your personal status quo.
Two serial murderers, one with a higher body count and is also a pedophile, rapist, con man, national security threat, insurrectionist, and convicted felon.
And at that point, it's not an analogy any more.
@Pastabatman 😅... you read my comment & thought I'd engage in political banter with you😅 don't insult my intelligence😆. Only to reply with political comparisons. Tells me you didn't comprehend. Any retorts rooted in political jargon tells me the message was lost. The analogy isn't exhaustive....nor was it used as direct synonyms for Biden & Trump....
Perhaps this will help bring it home...a quarter...is still a quarter no matter hown you flip it, or what side it lands on..... you still engaged in commerce....
Yall gotta stop reading stuff online and cherry picking whatever triggered your emotion, being willfully obtuse, dismissing everything before during and after lol it's so funny😆
@dodgy_bagel - I just skipped to the latter part of your reply. Nothing happens until, if ever, the masses can have a common understanding that is based on truth. Expecting the very thing that oppresses you to free you is asinine. Expecting a broken system, a broken process to fix itself is less than smart... you've been hoodwinked and bamboozled, the fix was in and has been in for generations. It's nonsense once you unpack it all and once you do you see the world, things, as they are, and not as they should be. All the brilliant minds in the world and THESE two are your options 🤣😂 why are people so content on elderly people, specifically old white males in office. Living on this planet is definitely interesting to observe....I just smh🙄 what good do your words do if they can't understand you...
So in your reality, what happens?
Seriously, what are you hoping to gain? What's the desired effect?
The progressive faction just.... never votes. What happens? Magic? Revolution?
You're the sane one, so tell me.
@Pastabatman 😅... you read my comment & thought I'd engage in political banter with you😅 don't insult my intelligence😆. Only to reply with political comparisons. Tells me you didn't comprehend. Any retorts rooted in political jargon tells me the message was lost. The analogy isn't exhaustive....nor was it used as direct synonyms for Biden & Trump....
Perhaps this will help bring it home...a quarter...is still a quarter no matter hown you flip it, or what side it lands on..... you still engaged in commerce....
Yall gotta stop reading stuff online and cherry picking whatever triggered your emotion, being willfully obtuse, dismissing everything before during and after lol it's so funny😆
@dodgy_bagel - I just skipped to the latter part of your reply. Nothing happens until, if ever, the masses can have a common understanding that is based on truth. Expecting the very thing that oppresses you to free you is asinine. Expecting a broken system, a broken process to fix itself is less than smart... you've been hoodwinked and bamboozled, the fix was in and has been in for generations. It's nonsense once you unpack it all and once you do you see the world, things, as they are, and not as they should be. All the brilliant minds in the world and THESE two are your options 🤣😂 why are people so content on elderly people, specifically old white males in office. Living on this planet is definitely interesting to observe....I just smh🙄 what good do your words do if they can't understand you...
@Pastabatman 😅... you read my comment & thought I'd engage in political banter with you😅 don't insult my intelligence😆. Only to reply with political comparisons. Tells me you didn't comprehend. Any retorts rooted in political jargon tells me the message was lost. The analogy isn't exhaustive....nor was it used as direct synonyms for Biden & Trump....
Perhaps this will help bring it home...a quarter...is still a quarter no matter hown you flip it, or what side it lands on..... you still engaged in commerce....
Yall gotta stop reading stuff online and cherry picking whatever triggered your emotion, being willfully obtuse, dismissing everything before during and after lol it's so funny😆
@dodgy_bagel - I just skipped to the latter part of your reply. Nothing happens until, if ever, the masses can have a common understanding that is based on truth. Expecting the very thing that oppresses you to free you is asinine. Expecting a broken system, a broken process to fix itself is less than smart... you've been hoodwinked and bamboozled, the fix was in and has been in for generations. It's nonsense once you unpack it all and once you do you see the world, things, as they are, and not as they should be. All the brilliant minds in the world and THESE two are your options 🤣😂 why are people so content on elderly people, specifically old white males in office. Living on this planet is definitely interesting to observe....I just smh🙄 what good do your words do if they can't understand you...
I'm a capitolist, and I'm not voting Biden.
Enjoy the Trump win everyone. We deserve it. You can thank the DNC. And Hilary Clinton.
Also, who's actually making the calls and decisions right now? It's not Biden. Obama? Clinton? Or are the DNC themselves deciding?
Greetings comrade!
What is being strange? Am just a normal warm-water port-loving Americain like you.
So who does the capitolost vote for? The rich control the decisions. Like always. The ones who fund the parties. The ones who back the people in power.
If the people got who they backed we'd probably have Bernie or someone else who got grassroot funding.
Not sure who I'll write in yet.
ever heard the term "blue maga"?
The fanaticism and fatalism produce some interesting parallels
Normally I would agree as a democrat. But I genuinely think trump is a better pick over Biden rn. That's how bad he is
You are either a troll or an idiot.
Just an undecided voter
I agree that it is heartbreaking that the democrats keep pushing candidates no one wants. But no amount of incompetence is a reason to give fascism a try. I don't live in America, but considering they run this joint, I'd hate for it to become a shitier Russia.
Biden is definitely not fit to do anything him self, but he's surrounded by good advisers and he actually fucking listens to them. Under his term not nearly as many horrific things happened as under trump. Trump's an immediate menace to the world order as we know it. I find it really ironic how he claims to be pro American, but actively destroys the reasons people look up to America and let it have so much influence in the first place.
Quite frankly, go outside and have someone slap you in the face and wake you the fuck up.
It's not remotely close. Biden still has an actual solid policy agenda, Trump is a senile and decrepit badger, shitting himself and scratching at everything he sees.
