How do Americans win their country back?
How do Americans win their country back?
I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?
Americans HAVE their country, this is what they want, this is what they voted for. Stop treating Americans as if this is something pressed upon them. They chose this. Now they will live with the consequences.
a third of us chose this, while half of us couldn't be bothered to give a shit.
sanity is an oppressed minority in the us, and it's worse than I ever could have thought.
couldn’t be bothered to give a shit
Which means they chose this too. The only people without any culpability are the ones who voted for Harris or who for many reasons were not able to vote.
Doesn't mean that the people who did not vote are as much at fault as the ones voting for Trump, but they share part of the blame.
Yep Imma stand back and watch it all go to absolute hell and I'll be pleased knowing they brought it on themselves.
Same. America, I loved you, but it's not me, it's you.
Who knows. Apparently half my country is full of legitimately hateful people who just want to watch the people they don't like suffer.
How the fuck do we come back from that? Honestly, are we even worth redeeming?
For me, this is it. This is when America died. If you're still "proud" to be an American after this, you're brain-damaged.
Yes. It is too late. This was the inevitable outcome. Sooner or later.
Dems here are like UK Labor. They're a right wing party who occasionally cosplays as a left leaning one when they need to. They stand as the bullwark against any form of left wing populism. And they've done their job to the letter.
Our economy is almost entirely debt driven financialization and gambling. There is another subprime mortgage crisis brewing. Exactly the same as the one in '08, except way bigger. And our economy is far more precarious than it was then.
Truth
Win it back from who?
Other Americans who made this choice know who Trump is and thats what they want.
The Rich have always owned this country. No one is taking anything from them. Its illegal to try.
Yup. Americans just won their country back, unfortunately.
Come to Australia mate
We will send our rejects to America in exchange
What a tweest!
"Americans" did win their country back. We aren't welcome in it anymore.
I think that first you have to start by admitting two things:
- Americans did win their/your election
- Americans have l9st faith in their democratic institutions
After that, you can look at why the Democratic parties fail to appeal to Americans, and try to reform them.
If you go outside of democracy to gain democracy, then you probably lose what's left of your democracy.
Balkanize.
What do you mean? Trump won decisively. Electoral, popular, in the senate, etc...
You're really asking, "how does a minority continue to exist in the face of a fascist majority?"
The answer is, generally, they don't.
You forget that he won decisively... with less votes than he got last time
I think that is an oversimplification. He won the popular vote, but that's the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right? So we cannot accurately say that the majority is fascist. We can only say that the voting majority is fascist.
And then we need to look at who was conned, and how. Of course people who got conned need to work harder to avoid that in the future. We all agree on that. At the same time, the con artists and the people who enable the con, we also need to identify them and figure out what's making them successful. If we talk about major newspapers and TV networks failing to cover how bad Trump actually was, or putting Harris on unrealistic pedestal, newspaper owners refusing to allow newspaper editors to endorse a candidate, the way Fox News preys on people who grew up trusting TV news and now have only watched Fox for the last two decades, open lies about who's eating cats and dogs, a DNC that pushes centrist candidates even after 2016 when the weakness was exposed, and it's clear that many left-wing voters are wildly unhappy, those are all things that smaller groups have done to help create the situation that we saw yesterday. And that's just a short list.
So what I hope we can do, is I hope we can avoid saying something trite like, this is what the American people wanted, full stop. If you want to make that a conversation starter, go for it. But it shouldn't be a dismissive conversation ender, because it ignores what actually happened and What will continue to happen in the future.
Regardless of your views on the Orange Grifter / Gift from God (delete as applicable) this question is fundamentally flawed. “How do we build bridges, find common ground and begin to win over our fellow US citizens who have, in my opinion, made a poor and misinformed political choice that could have terrible consequences for them, our country and the world at large?” might be a more appropriate opener. I understand you’re upset, scared, desolate etc but your language comes off as belligerent and aggressive. Perhaps soften your tone and be more receptive to others’ concerns. For the record, I’ve got no flies on this turd as I’m not from the US, nor do I live there. Good luck.
The Republicans are running on a platform of attacking the rights of racial minorities, and the right for trans people to exist
And the people who vote for them like the pain they cause or are so checked out they don't know/care
Idk if there is a way to work with people who's political agenda is to kill you
If over half of your active voters want to kill people as part of a national policy then you’re probably fucked beyond repair as a people and a nation. My condolences.
So the way it looks now, Trump has won the presidency, and his allies will have the senate and house of representatives, and they already had the supreme court. The three branches of government will not be working as checks on each other's power, unless we get very lucky and the various factions that make up the GOP split. This is obviously very, very bad, but there are still some checks on presidential power.
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Trump's last term was a clusterfuck. Things may just be so disorganized that he struggles to actually get what he wants done.
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The states have limited power to defy the feds. While case law does state that federal law supercedes state law, that doesn't mean all States will immediately cooperate wholeheartedly. Obviously a court battle will eventually get to the supreme court, but that takes time and requires a single panel of judges to beat multiple states into line on each new policy.
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Governments do have a small amount of caution when it comes to their people. One thing the crazy conservatives had right this whole time was that fundamentally, nobody was ever going to come for their guns because nobody wants to force a confrontation with a bunch of armed lunatics. In the same way, they'll probably try to avoid massive riots and general strikes simply because it isn't worth the fight to whoever is responsible.
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Citizens can resist. Go to protests, donate to political advocacy organizations (the ACLU will have its work cut out for it), and for Christ's sake, go vote! Show up every year, just not every 4 years. Without the cooperation of congress, his power would be significantly curtailed.
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If nothing else, terms are limited. In 2 years we can swing congress. He isn't going to be able to pass a constitutional amendment to do what he likes before that. If we swing congress in two years, it will slow him down significantly, and then we can replace him in 2028. Hopefully people will actually keep showing up long enough after that to reverse all the damage he's likely to do in the next 4 years.
The states have limited power to defy the feds.
Case in point: legalized marijuana. That said, my fear in regards to states defying laws is:
- Targeted attacks by MAGA terrorists, particularly regarding anything LGBTQ+ or reproductive healthcare related.
- The fed withholding federal funds to punish states that don't fall in line.
The former is particularly concerning as police and the national guard are predominately right-wing. My state passed the SAFE-T Act to address abuses in the police/justice system. Naturally, various police departments weren't happy about this, and through obtuse interpretation of the act they'll claim they can't legally do vital parts of their job -- something I've seen multiple times first hand. Refusing to do their job competently in response to MAGA terrorism isn't hard to imagine.
The later gets tricky. Most of the states that would push back against unjust federal laws are also states that pay more in federal taxes than they receive in aid. The "obvious" solution withhold tax dollars going to the fed to make up the difference ... which would be next to impossible in practice. Even if states mange to do it they'd be playing into Republican hands by defunding essential federal services.
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Realistically? It's too late.
We now have an ultra-conservative SC for the rest of our lives. The Republican party openly stated and ran on making fundamental changes to our government if they won the House/Senate/Presidency and to "defeat the enemy within".
It doesn't even really matter if the suffering that is coming shocks our society into rebounding in 4 years. The locked in SC and fundamental changes to our government will have already been set in place. Government departments will be run by appointees with absolutely no experience. Entire departments could be re-staffed with partisan political appointees if we are to believe the words of some of the people Trump promised to appoint. We have been placed squarely on the path to decline. That decline won't happen overnight, but in our lifetimes it will become undeniable. We will probably barely recognize this country by the end of our lives.
This election determined the political order we will live under for the rest of our lives.
Buy a gun. Try to find happiness within your immediate sphere. And stay safe, if you can. Very, very few people will come out on top in the scenario we now find ourselves in. Give it a few years and you'll see. They have total control now, so there's no one else to blame for the decline that's essentially guaranteed to become apparent in the near future. But I'm sure if they do fail, immigrants will be at the top of the blame list.
It was a worthy experiment while it lasted.
America has past the point of no return on education. Anti-intellectualism is the status quo now. It's only gonna get worse now.
Waves Bible they've never read
They won't need it.. they got people to think what it's best for them, what books are good or bad, what values you should have, how you should live. And then they will also have chatgpt and AI that will answer their doubts and even do their work cause they won't be capable of doing it. I wonder if the AI will get "less smart" because of their clients needs being more basic. We'll see
Fisher price ai
The average death age of any empire is 250 years.
Tick tock America. You're proving that figure to be correct.
*proved
Facism is capitalism in decay. America just proved that the decay is rapid.
Liberal institutions just paved the way for facism to take root.
I'd like to learn more about
Facism is capitalism in decay.
Is that just a think people say or are their studies or books about this?
Facism is a reaction to the institutional failures of capitalism brought about by many scholars. Mainly brought about by the working class left behind looking for a change to the system.
Places in history where it happened
italy (1920's) voters wanted a stronger economy with trains to run on time germany (1920's) voters wanted a stronger economy without a destabilization of currency
Here is an explanation.
As an American, I expected most Americans to be at least semi-rational and to recognize what a threat to democracy and our way of life that Trump is. I expected most Republicans to just vote for him out of reflex, but otherwise the rest of America would rise up in our hour of need to vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.
Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. I’d say I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’ll help. This is America.
Agree, and sadly he won the popular vote too (so far). It’s really bleak how many people don’t vote at all.
The frustrating thing is that Trump didn't even get more votes this election than he did last election. There wasn't a bunch of new Trump voters that came out of the woodwork and turned the tide. He was absolutely beatable. He only won because 15 million of the people who voted for Biden last election just didn't bother this time.
A lot of progressive people also moved out of red states after all of the different nonsense happening in them. We won't know until the 2030 census if they actually do that accurately unlike the 2020 census.
Democratic voters just aren’t dependable, or the causes that Democrats tend to champion don’t provide them any benefits. Yes, it’s often the right thing to do to champion their rights or causes, but when the time comes and their help is needed, they’re seemingly nowhere to be found because things apparently weren’t interesting enough.
Go to your Democratic party and demand change.
Find a candidate that will stand on the basis of free healthcare, equal rights, the right to union, enforcing a higher minimum wage, enforcing paid sick leave and a minimum of 20 days holiday a year, and committing to lowering the cost of living.
Once someone stands up for this, push them to the moon for the next four years. Tell anyone else NOT on this platform to fuck off.
Essentially, America needs a Project 2029.
I like the sentiment, but that is predicated on there being another election under the same rule set which would allow either party to win. If things come to pass with the unitary executive theory outlined in Project 2025 and the dictatorship desires that have already been declared, makes it unlikely votes will work to change political parties going forward...
Some of this outcome will depend on how effectively they execute. But let's say they do. Then. in the paraphrased words of JFK:
"He who makes reform impossible. makes revolution inevitable."
Now that isn't a pretty future, or a nice future. But that's what happens when a people resigns itself to performing democracy instead of protecting it.
And the "deep state", meaning actual subject matter experts doing their jobs throughout government for years, regardless of current administration, are all going to be replaced by kid rock and vaping young republicans fresh from dropping out of their second semester in at The University of Southern Alabama State.
That's who's going to be the dude inspecting your meat for e.coli and signing off on the clinical trials for you've perception meds - Gunner, Hunter and Ryder.
Really don't think anyone is considering the reality of how deeply fucked we're going to be looking at the front door for obvious signs of trouble, while they leaf the crawlspace with fertilizer and gasoline and kick in the backdoor with flamethrowers in hand.
You get it
I'll also add that you need to primary basically anyone that has been in politics for more than 15 years. There is just too much, "common sense," in this party that is just wrong. In 2016, it was smart to run a centrist campaign that tried to move moderates away from Trump, and it failed. In 2024, they ran the same fucking campaign, and it failed.
There are well intentioned people that somehow still think that the 1992, third-way strategy will deliver gains through incrementalism, and it's just not going to happen. Primary them, so that they at least have to contend with the new political realities. Trump picked up working class voters across across all demographics, not just the white working class. Everyone wants change; offer real change.
They don't. It was never their country to begin with, clearly.
The majority of the U.S. has been racist, bigoted, misogynists from the beginning. Hell, the entire electoral college system that just fucked everyone over is a compromise that was put into place because a bunch of rich white landowners in the Antebellum south couldn't stand the idea of freed black men's votes having as much power as theirs. So they immediately rigged the system to keep them in control of who gets power because you better believe no black man was ever going to be an elector.
That is who your country is. There was a brief period from the 60s to the 80s where it became declasse to be an asshole, and so they mostly shut up during that time when they were in public, and then went home and took out their frustration by beating their wives and kids.
Then along came the modern republican party, who began to tear down that cloak of respectability, and it emboldened all of those wife beating shit-heads to say "Hey...we can be assholes again...go us."
This is your America. It always has been. I'm sorry if that hurts. I really am. But right now I'm also goddamned angry at your country on behalf of my country and all the others that have to be caught in the blast.
That's how I see it and I'm sure many like me (not us citizens) will start to see it. People aren't being fooled, they like what they see in it when they voted. At least half Americans do
Democracy is just the tyranny of the majority.
I think that most of the Americans want this, even if people on the outside do not understand. So in that sense they are right now winning back their country, as confusing as it might sound.
Normally in Democracy the majority or popular vote wins, however due to the electoral college America has, it doesnt necessarily mean the majority voted for the winner. This was the case for Bush, and some other moments in the past.
But Trump won the popular vote this time
Whether it's 48 or 52 % is an immaterial difference. Every other American who voted, voted for Trump. The rest don't seem to care either way. He has very broad popular assent and is as popular as Harris give or take a margin of error.
Everyone is lasered-focused on the EC because it makes all the difference for the practicalities, but if one is to make a broad judgement of whether Trump won fair and square the answer is "yeah, mostly". Further proof is the fact that the House is probably going to be his as well.
Americans now bear the collective responsibility for the horrors of the next 4(+?) years. Do not make the mistake of blaming the popular will of outright fascism on institutional failures, because institutions didn't force half of Americans to vote for the fascist, again.
I believe the states responsible for those silly outcomes have since passed laws to prevent it happening again.
Could be wrong, but I listened to a podcast last week with an American professor who's pretty much written the book, explaining the history of the Electoral College and how it really works. I'm sure he said those states since fixed those loopholes.
Either way, the damage is done today. Another four years of stupidity in charge.
u̇nfoṙtcėnetlı, H ſımz t bı ƿinıŋ ð pȯpyulṙ vot æz ƿel.
spoiler
Unfortunately, he seems to be winning the popular vote as well.
No, there is a concerted effort by conservatives to use voter suppression to subvert the will of the majority in the US.
conservatives are clawing back the country right now by hook and by crook.
can't go on forever, but I don't know which is going to last longer: the country or the aging frightened conservatives willing to subvert democracy to hang on to control.
I think that most of the Americans want this
Maybe, but none of the facts directly support this.
There have been large campaigns to disenfranchise several types of voters for decades in the country. The Electoral College was designed to be unfair to appease Slave states. Voter turnout is abysmal, only about 35% of eligible citizens vote. Out of those turnout is usually around the same percentage. The highest turnout recently was 2020 only because mail in voting was expanded so dramatically, and even then it was only 67% of registered voters, so it was still only 67% of that original 37% of eligible voters. So with the highest recent turnout, we're looking at about 25% of eligible citizens actually voting.
Dafuk are you talking about? Voter turnout is 67% of all eligible voters. It's highest since it's ever been. And Trump won the popular vote. At least look at the facts instead of crying "stolen election".
That's what the Germans thought in 1933
vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.
Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. I’d say I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’ll help. This is America.
America needs to focus on decentralizing power. That way, when the other side wins, they can't do much damage. Biggest problem America faces is too much centralized control.
Democracy really is the worst form of government, just not as bad as all the others...
Unfortunately in such polarized times like now, even though majority wants this, the ammount of people for which this is unacceptable is only slightly less than "the majority". And besides, I believe a big part of "the majority" is just gullible enough to be persuaded they want this while it actually goes against their interests
And if the other candidate won, the other half would've been in the same state of "this is unacceptable". Solutions?
Cuz lemmy seems to think if their party wins it's all good and if the other wins it's the end of the world. While in reality it seems there's a 50-50 split with each side equally hating the other.
We radicalize, organize, pour into our communities, support one another, find people already doing the work and join in, and keep fighting like hell.
Biden could do some official acts. But he won't.
But he won't
Should be the DNC motto.
Gallows humor is all we've got left
He should at least transfer a shitton of military gear to Ukraine in the coming days. Not little stuff either.
Top-tier tanks, jets, warships, and more. Enough to absolutely crush the Russian war machine. Basically everything shy of nukes and loads of it.
I'm not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
With a functional justice department we'd have a chance. There's nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines. There's nothing to stop them from not certifying an election. We're about to have the scotus filled with young like-minded Republicans. We're about to have every federal judge biased for them.
Even having both sides of Congress the best thing we could do would be to status quo because every time a veto is overturned the scotus could just stamp it down as unconstitutional.
The president has God King status, he can have opponents jail for executed.
The thing is even if none of these things were in play, The popular vote just voted for a dictatorship. He was utterly and absolutely clear and anyone that says he was joking around doesn't actually believe that they're just too embarrass socially to announce that they themselves are racist/fascist/misogynist. There is nothing here to win back. We're better than 50% rotten to the core and those people aren't going away.
Even this election wasn't right versus left it's right versus more right. If you put a true left candidate in they're just going to get murdered. (That may or may not be literal)
I'm not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
I don't understand this sentiment as I'm hearing it a lot.
We've elected a fascist into the highest office. We're cooked. There's a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing. Organizing your community, your family, your town/village/city. Organizing mutual aid, direct action, and resistance. How much more do we need until people actually get off their asses and start doing something about it? Like the time for peaceful and democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But a fascist is now in power, so are we going to wait until the troops are rolling down the street to do anything? I'm not saying go out and just commit wanton acts of violence in the name of revolution, but the longer we wait the more difficult it will become to get organized, involved, and yes armed.
I don’t understand this sentiment
There’s a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing
Organizing? Resistance? Armed? That's honestly insane.
You're going to organize against half the US? Gonna start a civil war with every last (fully armed) enemy in your own backyard?
They could blockade cities from food and shut down any movement in 3 days.
The Civil War worked efficiently because there was a battlefront. This is more of a Republican Soup.
Good luck with your local police. They'll get a federal warrant and gleefully raid your home at 3 am.
There's nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines.
Given that the Democrats have known the districts have been gerrymandered to hell and back for decades now, why haven't they spent any time at all doing their own redistricting, rather than strongly pushing agendas that affect 0.5% of the country?
The first bill filed in the House of Representatives and Senate after the 2020 election which resulted in the Democratic Party gaining nominal control of Congress and the White House was a bill to ban partisan gerrymandering, require independent redistricting committees, forbid states from imposing onerous voter registration or identification regulations, limit the influence of rich donors and wealthy PACs in federal elections, and generally just make the process of voting better for Americans.
This bill was called the Freedom to Vote Bill and was numbered H.R. 1 and S. 1 for the House and Senate versions, respectively. It passed the House of Representatives in 3 March 2021 and received unanimous support among the 50 Democratic senators when the Senate held its vote on 22 June 2021. The bill was blocked from advancing due to a Republican filibuster.
On 3 January 2022, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York announced plans to abolish the filibuster for legislation in order to allow this bill to advance. President Joe Biden had previously indicated he would sign the bill. Schumer made his move on 19 January 2022, moving to change the filibuster rule to require continuous talking, i.e. in order to filibuster a bill, someone must make a speech and keep talking for the duration of the filibuster, with the filibuster ending when they finish talking. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin, members of the Democratic Party representing Arizona and West Virginia, respectively, got squeamish and voted against the change. All Republican senators voted against the change. This doomed the bill's passage through Congress as the filibuster could be maintained indefinitely by the Republicans.
The bill died when Congress was dissolved pending the November 2022 general election, in which Republicans won a narrow majority in the House of Representatives.
Manchin and Sinema's terms with both expire when the new Congress is convened on 3 January 2025 following the November 2024 general election. Manchin did not seek re-election in yesterday's election and will retire at the expiration of his term. Sinema was forced out of the Democratic Party and originally planned to stand as an independent before deciding against it. She will retire at the end of her term.
Due to the innate malapportionment of the Senate, it is exceedingly unlikely that the Democratic Party will ever regain majority control of the Senate.
So I point my finger at these two idiots for sinking American democracy as we know it.
Oh dems have. But you have to have control of the state to do that. Hogan (R governor) tried his damnest to unwrap central Maryland from Western Maryland.
It's over.
Honestly at this point y'all should just get the fuck out. Where to? Anywhere honestly. You'll probably find the third world preferable to a post project 2025 Murica.
Russia's been having a major brain drain issue as all people with functioning brains either have escaped or want to escape the country. I don't see why Americans should do any different.
FWIW a candidate the left could vote for instead of someone to vote against would help.
It would.
But I think that ship has sailed.
And honestly it might be the third-worlder-accustomed-to-things-being-uttter-bullshit in me. But I think "Winning back the country" is an unrealistic and foolhardy goal. Everyone who is on the radar for being harmed by Trump should look out for themselves and their own. Which includes "getting the fuck out of the country" if that is what it takes.
Additionally: A significant portion of the country won today. They got exactly what they wanted. And pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering one's own ears.
Pretty sure Trump said we wouldn't have to worry about voting anymore. It would all be taken care of.
Damn, and europe already has a lot of refugees to deal with :p
We will take you in NZ.
No you won't, NZ is one of the hardest countries to immigrate to.
I hear Japan is practically giving houses away...
Eat shit.
This post is about recovery, not abandonment. Letting America fall will have global repercussions. Instructing us to give up is not helpful.
This post is about recovery, not abandonment
Recovery from what? Fascism is what your own neighbours chose. This is the system working exactly as intended and pretending it's not is covering one's own eyes. There are hundreds of millions of Americans for whom this is a good day. They have the backing of the wealthy and powerful. And their project is to remove any chance of them ever losing power again.
Thinking you'll stop something like Project 2025 in the ballot box is willful ignorance at this point.
Since OP has already made it clear that "violent uprising" is not on the cards, then the alternative is to get out while they can. Hopefully while helping others do the same. Save themselves and their own. Survive and maybe you can make a difference from the outside.
When Germany went all Nazi in the 30s~40s you know who DID make a difference? Not the political opposition who got slaughtered. And not the people who let the Nazis walk all over them while claiming they were still better because they were "civil". It was resistance fighters who helped the allies fight and minorities to escape. And people who got out of Germany and then joined the fight on the side of the allies.
Also:
Eat shit.
Don't threaten me with a good time, gringo <3
I gave up this morning. America gave up on you at birth.
Sending this dude a dm on NZ. I'm sure they need mechanics.
By finally doing what it clearly needs to do, splitting in multiple countries so red States can finally become third world countries like they so want to be.
It's funny that the last time this was floated by Republicans, they thought they were kicking the Democrat states out.
In other words, they thought they were keeping the Federal government.
Republican states need Democrat states far more than vice versa.
If Trump truly does win, Republicans won't split the country. They'll make it even more impossible to leave.
I mean, no matter who gets kicked out by who, there would be at least two federal governments... I think most people don't realize that when a country splits, the (at least two) new entities both become independent countries with their own government...
So where do you think the lines would get drawn? West Coast and New England + New York are the obvious ones to do their own thing. Pennsylvania cuts off the DMV area from New York/New England, unless we go on a county level and excise just the area around Philly to keep the whole northeast Atlantic together.
Is Chicago just left as an island in the Midwest? The red staters certainly won't want it, and without it Illinois basically is a red state. RIP to the other midwest and southern cities too.
Colorado and New Mexico together would be quite fucked being landlocked in a sea of red otherwise.
Congratulations to Hawaii on its regained independence I guess. Alaska would probably be offered up to Putin as a thank you gift from Trump.
Do you think all the red states stay together as a single entity? Texas is an obvious candidate to decide to fuck off on its own, possibly Florida as well. But would South Carolina really care all that much to stay tied to Montana, for example, or vice versa?
THIS is the moment where everyone should be creating 3rd party candidates and going to the streets to spread awareness for the next election.
Not 6 months before the election with trump as a possibility. Get out there and promote 3rd party now, when people are pissed at Democrats for throwing it all away for Israel and people are pissed the trump won.
IMO third party is not viable unless we change our voting system, but people keep voting out the progressive reform party so fat chance.
EDIT: 100% for independents in Congress tho, as long as it doesnt split the vote for progressives.
"Next election" is the issue here.
Those playbooks are for democracy. This is different territory now.
Do you really think they lost over their stance on Israel/Palestina? Not saying it doesn't matter. But I feel if you see how many votes republicans got, that a lot of (perceived) domestic issues played a very big role.
20 million people did not stay home over Palestine. People aware of that issue are also acutely aware of the fact Trump would be worse.
Apparently a lot of apathy among dem voters, or they also think a strongman for a while would be OK.
No, 3rd party will always be spoiler at best with the election system we have... Now is the time to figure out who runs the local Dems in your state/county/city/town and take them over... We need to take over the Dems and transition them to the party of the future
Dnc komissars are brain dead... Another bullshit campaign they botched... 2016 vibes failed again...
Either way, these regime whores are useless.
3p is the only way for a chance of any fucking reform.
Until then beatings will continue...
Tough question. I don't think the descendants of european, asian and african settlers are going back home any time soon.
I think this is going to be the end of the USA as we know it. After this period, democracy will be significantly impacted.
The western world as a whole should be terrified. There has been a sharp dip towards conservatism that will only accelerate with Trump back at the helm in the US. Brexit didn't occur in a vacuum.
It is too late for a while now. Try to be safe, even if that means moving.
And move where?!
Pretty dystopic that you post this quote, because it is doctored to include catholics. Niemöller's wife explicitly stated that he never included them in his poem. Source: https://martin-niemoeller-stiftung.de/martin-niemoeller/was-sagte-niemoeller-wirklich
Martin Niemöllers zweite Frau (seit 1971), Sibylle von Sell schreibt dazu am 23.4.2000 in h-holocaust https://www.h-net.org/~holoweb/ :.“ The trouble with Martin Niemoeller’s „famous quotation“ is that he never wrote it down – which enabled so many hitchhikers over the years to „put themselves on the waggon“. In his „Confession of Guilt“ (as he called it himself: Schuldbekenntnis in German) the Communists came first, then the Trade Unionists and then the Socialists and then the Jews. NO ONE ELSE.”
Just be grateful if you're not in one of the first groups. I spoke up as loudly as I could.
If I had that answer I would be happy to share.
The problem is that nowhere is safe now. I'm Canadian, and I wish I had somewhere to go. And just imagine how the poor sods in Palestine, Ukraine, and so many other suffering countries, are feeling right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vladimir Putin's armies weren't occupying large swaths of Eastern Europe by the end of this term.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Vladimir Putin’s armies weren’t occupying large swaths of Eastern Europe by the end of this term.
And Russia will use, what? Tanks from the Cold War?! There have been many reports from professional defense intel groups and countries that report that Russia has been struggling to keep fighting the invasion of Ukraine. They've had to resort to asking North Korea to send thousands of troops to fight in Ukraine. With the weapons that the EU, Australia, Britain, and the US have been sending them, Russia is going to have a tremendously difficult time fighting back. Let alone, invading another country.
There's a theory going around that China might take action and 'take back' what they claim to have been their territory from the early 1800s. Either they capture Serbia as a whole, southern Serbia, or a large portion of Eastern Russia. Which might look like the northern point of Lake Baikal to Uda Gulf or the push further and take Taul Bay. The southern part of the Kamchatka peninsula would be advantageous to them. The US and others would have a harder time "controlling" China's fleet of ships if they had ports and bases up there as well.
I can only hold onto fool's faith for so long, that the world doesn't experience another major war.
Violence. There will not be a second option.
Feel free to wait until the camps start, liberals. That will be the "civil" course.
Americans have lost. Bestyou can do is try to save NATO.
It's been "too late" for 'mericans to "win back the country" for a couple of decades at least. I mean, the entire electoral/voting system needs to be redone from the ground up because it's very non-democratic.
If Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote I'd say it is.non-Democratic. But he won the popular vote too. So half the country are just self destructive.
There's a lot of fuckery that happened since before and after the election. They fucked with the census to give red states more ec votes. They changed voting rules and redistricted in many states. They got ballots thrown out in certain areas. Yesterday the voting computer system in my (blue) county didn't work for the first two hours fortunately I voted early. There's also a lot more nuanced targeted misinformation out there now. People have these ideas in their heads and I have no clue where they came from. I block ads all the time but I imagine places like TikTok can easily manipulate people without anybody around them knowing about it.
California has only counted around half their votes so a popular vote win for Kamala could be a thing.
I'm sorry, you're looking at these results and seeing too little democracy in play?
Please cram another corporate candidate down my thoat daddy 🥺
If you consider that more people didn't vote for Trump and he still won, then yes.
This isn't sides anymore.
Until America wants to be tolerant of more than intolerance, it seems it will vote with its penises, wallets, and weapons.
Edit: unnecessary apostrophe
No, no, it's fine. Americans don't know how to use apostrophes properly.
They're the political opposition now. They should do what good opposition work includes. Hold the government accountable, force them to deliver results. Make the people pay attention and realize if their bills become less or more expensive. And I'd say re-consider life-choices. And make some fundamental changes. Maybe start a new political party if the Democrats are beyond hope.
They just did. They'll happily lie in the bed they shat in at first. By the time they realize their mistake, it will be too late.
A cancer metastasizing is the opposite of Americans winning their country back.
They were referring to what the slack jawed morons who voted for trump think
It'll be when a dem takes control and they'll blame the fallout on that person. Same as usual.
Hope there will be a legitimate election in 2028, and show up to the fucking primary before it and in 2026.
I think Trump won because of the economy. Yes, he has a rabid base that really does want his fascism, but the voters who pushed him over the edge are ones suffering because inflation and the wealth gap that has just been allowed to increase unimpeded. Those voters don’t want fascism - they’re just dumb AF and don’t pay attention. They just voted for “change.”
These problems will only increase over the next 4 years, so there will be another opportunity defy the status quo in 2028. We had a chance and failed to do in 2016. We came closer in 2020. We didn’t have a real primary in 2024. When we get to 2028, it’s time to fucking do it.
Ah yes, because nothing says "change" like "unchecked conservatism"
Well I did say they are dumb AF.
Here's the thing... He said he would bring change. Biden, and Harris after, both said that things would basically stay the same. For a lot of people, that's an active issue they're dealing with everyday.
The politicians just don't understand because they haven't lived like normal people for decades, if ever given the history and family of many of them.
See, there's the horrifying possibility that they just did and this is what Americans are.
Eh, forget it. they probably need a minute before reckoning with that one.
That's the thing .. looks like he'll win the populist vote.. You're not "taking your country back" this is your country...
Wait 2 years, and hopefully put people who will mitigate the damage into the positions listed on your ballot. All you can do now as a law abiding citizen is wait.
I fear that the next election will be more ceremony than democracy once they have finished rigging it. At this point, I expect a third term for Trump - if he lives that long.
He won't. The goal was to get Vance in all along. He's a docile pet for Thiel and co to implement their fascist agenda.
Your fear of a 3rd term makes it all the more important to vote in your future elections. As the two term limit is imposed through a constitutional amendment, they'd need to create another constitutional amendment to reverse it. They need 2/3rds of both the house and the senate to agree to even get the ball rolling, as such, it is vital that you do what you can to prevent them from acquiring those numbers to avoid that situation.
If it did happen, I wonder if the democrats would run Obama again.
Fat fuck will die inside of 4 years. So, it’ll get worse.
I admire your positivity
Maybe Biden could pack the Supreme Court before leaving office.
It wouldn't be a great idea in the long run, but it'd potentially stop the entire system from functioning right now.
He should have expanded it as soon as he was elected.
Packing the court requires legislation, in which he needs Congress to send him a bill, and between the Republican House and the Filibuster in the Senate that was never happening.
Education, unfortunately those in the most need of it are out of an educational institution so they will only be fed on a diet of commercialism and disinformation.
you organize to pressure the burgeoise, as always, because they are the ones funding every winning political candidate.
except for americans fascism seem to be tolerable but god forbid you learn from marxism and socialism.
I'm not usually known for preaching peace, as I genuinely do not believe there is a peaceful way to defeat fascism. But, now is not the time to kill anyone. Violence at this moment would be ineffective and unfocused.
For the next four years (assuming Trump is not wholesale slaughtering us) becoming a politician would be a better use of your time than engaging in violence. For the next year or two, civic engagement (or political subversion) will have more effect than physically fighting
However, if widespread murder of the innocent begins taking place, please disregard my peaceful message.
Correct. The time was in July but that guy missed.
Not too late for someone to give it another shot.
However, if widespread murder of the innocent begins taking place, please disregard my peaceful message.
We're a year deep into the slaughter of Gaza.
Gaza is about to be erased. Their genocide will be accelerated and completed in Trump's first year.
The local genocides here in the U.S. are going to happen over a longer period of time and may not begin right away. When they do begin, though, that is the time for violent resistance, for whatever good it might do.
There's nothing to win back, this is America, always has been.
You let it burn.
Yup, progressive politics in the US has been an exception not the rule. After about ~30 years we are just going back to business as usual. People forget segregation and women not being able to have their own bank accounts and abortion being illegal (the first time), is not something from ancient history. And before that the country literally went to war over itself over the idea that they should be able to own other huma s as property
Win back? This country was bought and paid for long before any of us were alive. We keep fighting against the oligarhy for liberty and freedom like we've always done.
Let the loud mouthed Marxists finally carry out the revolution they've been babbling about for the past 10 years. Oh wait...
U glowing
The Democratic Party needs to run a candidate that is elected through a fair primary process. When this happens, dems win.
2008 - Obama was popular and won the primary 2012 - same 2016 - It was deemed Clinton’s turn, she was given every advantage, and lost 2020 - Biden won the primary as elected by the people, then won again 2024 - Harris was given the candidacy without having to primary, and lost
It is a simple trend.
Though to be fair, Biden won the (practically uncontested) primaries in 2024 and probably would have gotten his shit stomped in just as hard
Biden was losing 2020 by an embarrassing margin until ALL the other candidates except Bernie Sanders dropped out to coalesce behind Biden in SC.
Whatever happened to Liz "et tu, Brute" Warren?
If Trump actually won, it is too late. Time to make plans to leave if you can, otherwise, prepare for the worst
Got any tips to get started on that? I've got a wife and kids to take with me, so emigration will be complicated.
When will countries start accepting US asylum seekers?
Don't call yourself an asylum seeker. Generally the rest of the world welcomes American immigrants, but we all get a bit antsy when it comes to helping people who actually need help.
If you got skills, pick a country and go to their immigration website. They will happily walk you through the process.
Well, it varies country by country but if you apply as a refugee/asylum seeker that usually includes your family. There may be some other options for becoming a resident, but this varies a lot depending of the country
How do North Koreans win their country back?
How do Chinese win their country back?
How do Russians win their country back?
How do Hungarians win their country back?
How do Iranians win their country back?
How do South Koreans win their country back?
What do you mean by "win back"?
They're trying to get liberals banned by coaxing out suggestions of terrorism
By watering the tree of liberty?
With urine?
No, blood from fascists
Most Americans like and support Trump. That IS America.
Yup, it's the election where hate won.
Now that is something to think about.. sad really
Yeah. Most people are probably experiencing the shock of what they thought the American people were vs what they are. It's hard to understand and accept.
As foreigners, our views are heavily affected by things like Hollywood, celebrity and visibility to the "best of America". But the bulk of America is not that, at all. So the veneer is torn away and it's jarring to most people.
The only positive I see in all this is that we get to watch the US get what they voted for. Pain can be a teacher, but I doubt they can learn from it. Any and all agony from this will just be the other parties fault, always. Too much venom and malice in the politics and too little earnest substance.
Even if it was to get uncivil, the side with guns in now in charge
We have guns on the left, too. We just aren't as masturbatory about them.
Hell of an uphill battle against MQ-9s, hellfire, and LRAS.
Too many people stayed home when they should have voted. It was their civic duty and moral goddamn obligation to the rest of the world. Fuck....
Liberals have more guns. I hate hearing this bullshit point echoed like it's some grand revelation.
Bro, have you been to any red necks houses? Cause if you had you wouldn't be saying that
They will over the next 4 years. Elections swing back and forth. Midterms will probably be greatly fir democrats
Apparently, the majority of Americans believe they won back their country yesterday. Looks like Trump is going to win the popular vote. That's where we are.
I majority of Americans think thats what theyve just done.
A majority of the voters. 72{ish. We're still counting)mil is not the majority.
As someone from a country with mandatory voting i will not take a single second of any shit argument that hinges itself on people too lazy or stupid to excise their right to have a say in their own future. If u didnt vote then ur opinion and value for the purposes of political disscussion are 0.
Too late for that.
We engage in democracy.
Harris was a terrible candidate who was forced into the race. I was hoping she could pull it off but it's pretty clear that what we needed was for Biden to step down before the primary so that we could have a real election.
Trump by all metrics is a much much worse candidate. The democrats should have been able to run a literal turd and still win. It's not about the policies, Trump ran a cult and it worked. Its absolutely mental.
I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil.
Firstly, undestanding what left actually is would be a good start. You're not talking about the left. You're talking about liberals. Liberalism isn't left. Liberalism is right-wing, and always have been.
The actual left is very happy to be "uncivil."
Secondly, a good second step would be to finally accept that liberals, and liberalism in general, has never, and will never, oppose fascism.
Those are two very basic things you can do right now.
The left is such a small population in the US, it's irrelevant. If we are to believe Trump's rhetoric, any group that becomes too much of a nuisance will be deemed "the enemy within," and be shot.
The left is such a small population in the US, it’s irrelevant.
And yet this "irrelevant" left managed to beat the far-right off the streets despite the far-right enjoying the support and protection of the police, not to mention luxurious funding. You don't have to believe me, you can hear it from a Neo-Nazi himself.
It's almost like... if you were to stop paying attention to the liberal gaslighting you might realize the answer was right in front of you all this time.
The us is ground hog day, they won't win it back instead they will spend two years bickering then two years bad mouthing and it will continue to repeat as they believe they've got 'democracy' you guys don't your being played by the political elites and the capitalist. Also stop throwing liberal around as a broad left notion, liberalism is an insult to any leftist.
If you want change then join a socialist party that is connected to an international. Make moves in unions. Build workers power. Be willing to fight. Educate yourselves so you can educate others. Marxism isn't some silly notion or wond waving. Its a scientific approach to a healthy and just society, Karl Marx watched the birth of global capitalism, predicted its failures: failures we are still seeing today, and sort to tackle the issue with years of research and analysis. What he made is a solid base for us to build on.
By not being single issue shit heads.
I didn't particularly care for all of Harris's positions and history, but I voted for her. I know many who felt the same. Even considering attacks on ballot drop boxes and such, based on what I've read so far, the majority of voting Americans picked the... Well, the one whom appears to have won.
So, to me, the question is not the one you proposed. The question to me is more along the lines of getting more voters/engagement and the like. To your actual question: they actually got it back and it makes me feel sick and ashamed, but that is the reality as much as I despise it.
See, this is why I rent.
As if the majority had a fucking choice.
Legally, there are a couple challenges to be made to his eligibility that will likely be brought by some states. The main one that comes to mind is If there is a case for insurrection then the 14th amendment applies.
Another potential is the 25th amendment. This would require J.D. Vance to get half of the cabinet on board to remove Trump from power. I'm wondering if this is something that is already in the works considering J.D. Vance's true feelings for Trump that were revealed in the past. It's probably a long shot, but who knows.
I would imagine (if they’re savvy, and the people running Project 2025 definitely are) they’d be more likely to keep him around as long as he was a useful distraction, then have him assassinated at a key point, and blame a liberal.
That would not only get him out of the way so the real work could begin, it would do double-duty of riling up his murderous base and giving them a ‘legitimate’ excuse to start sending the military after blue states and political rivals.
I guess they already did. That's what they wanted and voted for.
"They" being about 37% of voters.
Wait till next election. Trump can only run for two terms.
One would hope that is the case…
There will come a time when Trump is not physically able to keep campaigning. You might not be rid of MAGA come that day, but Trump won't last forever.
Putin also was able to only serve for two terms, so he replaced himself with a crony until he could change the law to remove term limits...
Thank god he's old, then, because he's not going to last long enough to be long time dictator. But maybe thats not the point, even if trump is gone, if hardcore republicans dismantle elections to ensure they're perpetually in power, then who the current figurehead is will be the least of our problems
Electoral whiplash is such a waste of time
With the current rules, which he now has 4 years to repeal.
Winning back? They just won it.
Dam it must have taken you a while to come up with that one.
That little squirt of dopamine you get when you're malicious, you know the one you chase like a drug addict? It's unhealthy and creates a worse world for everyone to live in.
Stop being a malicious drug addict
Clearly not by voting, you guys sucks at it.
If the Communists are willing to do what they say we need to do. This is a big "if" that I don't see any evidence for.
If you read communist theory you'd understand that revolution isn't easy, it takes multiple factors such as the current state of capitalism, class contusness and the global landscape. Once these things align we will witness the capitalist unable to deliver for the demands of the majority and the mass populous will soon realise how akin to slaves we are at that point the workers will fight back. I'm personally very active in my party building workers power through unions, attending demos and dispensing theory, a few months ago I traveled to Germany for a 5 day conference. It is only through these actions we can see change. It takes 15 present of the population to create real change so while you might feel content sitting around criticing our efforts you could be down here helping your comrades, the international group my party is linked to sent a dozen sp member to chilly to help in revolutionary action so rest assured that we are doing some heavy lifting.
Blame the democrats for choosing a weak nominee. The left could either whine and burn down every big city or give trump another ear piercing, your choice guys.
Talk and gasp befriend those with whom we disagree.
If you're trans there's a significant number of politicians who simply want you dead.
They disagree I should be allowed to live though
These people support, a fucking rapist, gleefully. NO
Fuck that filth
Ekſkyuz M f heziteıtıŋ ėbaut bııŋ frendlı ƿið pıpėl hu "diſėgrı" ðæt Uı hæv ineılıėbél hyumin ruıtſ.
spoiler
Excuse me for hesitating about being friendly with people who "disagree* that I have inaliable human rights.
İf ðiſ z'n dju̇ſt ė muıkrokȯzm v kėnſṙvėtiv pėtṙnėlizm. "Y did'n ækt greıtfᵫl inu̇f t M f letıŋ Y hæv livıŋ privlidjz, ſ nau Y kæn hæv ðem bæk ƿen Y lṙn t pleı nuıſ ƿið M æ a muı frendz hu aṙ teıkıŋ ðem frėm Y!."
spoiler
If this isn't just a microcosm of conservative paternalism. "You didn't act grateful enough to me for letting you have living privileges, so now you can have them back when you learn to play nice with me and my friends who are taking them from you.