Ok, before I even get into this, are you aware that to the left of your question mark button is a button that has a right facing arrow, and if you put that right facing arrow in front of any of my quotes you don't have to put quotations marks around my quotes in your responses and it makes your comments WAY easier to read by separating them from mine with a visual marker? Allow me to teach you.

what do you think scenarios are?

I mean, there are realistic scenarios and non-realistic scenarios. When we're talking about an election and I say we ended up in the worst timeline, clearly I'm not talking about all possible fantastic timelines like all humans spontaneously growing a third arm on their foreheads.

Just to keep it simple, literally 4 years ago when everyone assumed Trump was inevitably going to win

But this isn't the same situation. Trump came out of left field and won and no one, including himself, was prepared. And he still managed to create significant chaos and implement changes that have long-term effects. But he also had the highest White House administration turnover rate in history. It wasn't an effective administration at all, which kept it from causing even more damage. Now they have had years to plan. Years to find the people they want in the positions they want them in. They have policy detailing how they're going to dismantle our government and rebuild it in their image. And they openly ran on that policy.

Pick up a history book. Hitler got curb stomped the first time he gained some power and went to prison. Had time to plan some things. Came back and took power and....well...yeah.

This is a much more concerted, detailed effort than the last unplanned for clusterfuck. It is guaranteed that they will do anything and everything while in TOTAL control of our government in order to prevent them from losing any future election. They have paths to effectively make it impossible for a Democrat win. Legislation can be passed to change gerrymandering rules to give them an even bigger advantage than they already have. They have made it abundantly clear that they have no concern for norms or rules in general if those rules don't benefit them.

you don’t understand how the legal system works even at a basic level.

Illuminate me. Please. Instead of just saying I don't, explain to me what I don't understand that makes anything I've said not a real, valid concern.

Laws only work if they are enforced. It is enshrined in our Constitution that presidents must divest from their businesses while in office. The Republican party flagrantly dismissed that directive for Donald Trump. Laws can be broken without repercussion if not enforced. They are now in control of all branches of our government. You think Republicans are going to enforce laws on themselves when we already know they're not willing to do so? Or that they won't legislate the laws that don't benefit them out of existence?

he’s a 34 time convicted felon, he’s already had to pay $100 million and lost multiple court cases.

Can you provide proof to me that he has already paid E. Jean Carroll $100 million? Losing a court case is not justice if there is no punishment actually enforced. Can you point to any actual repercussions that have actually taken place for Donald Trump for any crime he has committed in recent memory? I'm fully aware, as you are, that he was originally fined $5 million for raping E. Jean Carroll, and then fined an extra $90 million for defaming her. Can you provide proof that sum has already been paid to E. Jean Carroll?

he literally was held accountable multiple times already and he’s still under indictment in many cases with more upcoming.

Again, being held accountable is paying for your crimes, not having a judge read off your sentencing in a courtroom. And what do you believe will happen to his other cases now that he's been crowned king? There's really no way for us to know yet, but the likliehood that they will go away just skyrocketed. Because some of what he's indicted for comes with jail time if convicted. Do you honestly believe a sitting president, whose party now has total control of our government, will have to report to prison, especially with the SC's recent broad decision about presidential immunity?

you’re completely wrong and ignorant of his legal status and his past consequences.

Past consequences? Like, are we going back decades here? Like when he lost a case for discriminating against black renters decades ago? I'm talking about his modern crimes. What ACTUAL repercussions has he suffered? He pay that $100 mil yet?

how?

that makes no sense.

you mean this one person was literally never elected to a second term at the exact moment in history?

If you don't grasp how what we're experiencing is unprecedented in American history, I'm not sure how much I can help you.

We have a party that has been taken over by extremists. I've been around long enough to confirm to you that the Republican party now is absolutely not the Republican party of the past. It is being taken over by extremists. By conspiracy theorists. Their officials helped spread a lie about our democratic institutions that resulted in an attempted insurrection on our government. They voted not to certify the 2020 election. They ran a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist who illegally attempted to overturn an election and ran on "dealing with the enemy within" and HE WON. That criminal and extremist party now fully controls our federal government.

THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED.

think about all these basic facts you’ve been wrong about just talking to one guy on the internet.

You haven't proven me wrong on a single thing. The only thing you stated was that I didn't know how our legal system worked without explaining to me why you think I'm wrong. Saying someone is wrong is not proving someone is wrong. You think I'm wrong about Trump not suffering consequences? He hasn't. Prove to me he has since first taking office in 2016.

The figurehead matters, you just lack the historical knowledge and context to see that.

Yes, and he already did his job and put his party back in power. Do you honestly think that all conservative policy and efforts stop when Trump dies? Are you insane? He wouldn't be who he is without the party that backed him. That party remains when he is gone and they've proven to be just as unethical and volatile as him BY SUPPORTING HIM UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.

you’re lucky i like teaching.

Please don't do it professionally. You are extremely bad at it. You don't even know how to use basic keyboard functions that work on Lemmy or Reddit so your replies to me don't look like one long run on paragraph with no clear seprations between what you're saying and my quotes.

again, it is illogical and absurd to believe in timelines and also believe there are only two.

It's time to let this go. Being an edgelord never works in your favor when having a debate. Everyone but you understands what I was talking about. You're being a contrarian and that's only something people bad at debating do.

expand your mind.

Expand your knowledge regarding how to properly use this site's functions to make your replies not look like garbled trash.

you sound like you’re pouting but desperate to learn more from me.

I'm talking to a person so ignorant that they don't understand what's unprecedented about the political situation we find ourselves in. I assure you, I have nothing to learn from you.

Roberts, Thomas et al would keel over from heart attacks, Trump would have an attack of conscience and elect compassionate, wise judges.

I was talking about best case scenarios in reality, not fantasy.

there’s just too much historical evidence going against your theory of defeatist inevitability/futility

Such as?

many of dumps past, current and upcoming cases definitively do not have to do with his presidency and occurred outside of his presidency completely.

Do you honestly think that matters now? Everything we've seen up to this point suggests that Trump will not be held accountable for his crimes and that was BEFORE being crowned king. He will not be held accountable for any of his crimes. You can take me to the bank on that one.

this has happened uncountable times throughout just US history

What we are experiencing now is entirely unprecedented in U.S. history.

not really. Trump didn’t get fined $100 million and lose two court cases solely because of the will of the people.

Has he, thus far, suffered the repercussions of these cases?

already seen it a few times

Being convicted of a crime is not justice if one does not end up suffering repercussions along with those convictions.

this is ridiculous and has zero evidence to support it.

If Trump dies or becomes incapacitated, he is replaced by JD Vance and business as usual resumes. Nothing changes. GOP still calling the shots. Trump is a useful idiot. Nothing more. His presence doesn't matter now that he's completed his primary objective, which was to get the GOP back in power.

that this is not the worst timeline was obvious to me.

It is the worst timeline of the two that were available to us. I'm not entertaining timelines in which aliens invade or Big Foot runs for governor. I was talking about the two realistic timelines diverging because of the 2024 election. I didn't think I needed to specify, but apparently I did for the contrarians out there.

you believe in timelines, but you believe there are only two at any specific moment?

Let it go. Being an edgelord isn't necessary here.

oh yeah. almost all Americans. but you know they voted for it so…

Here is where we agree. 2016 could be chalked up to people being desperate for change and choosing to gamble on an unknown. Although to anyone that bothered to know anything about Donald Trump, he wasn't an unknown and we knew it would be an awful mistake. And he didn't win the popular vote, so he was forced on us by a minority. However, in 2024, we gleefully placed him back in power with a majority. This is squarely on Americans and we absolutely deserve the suffering that's coming. People in other countries that will be affected by this don't though.

The good news is that no one is hurt more by conservative policy than poor, rural conservatives. But I'm sure they'll find someone else to blame once the real suffering sets in. They always do.

definitely sucks right now, but this could spur Supreme Court reform or election reform

Even under the best circumstances reforming the SC would be extremely unlikely because it would require a super majority. Same with election reform. Our government, in its entirety, will now be run by extremists who literally ran on deconstructing our government and replacing it with something in their image. The way our government has worked our entire lives is likely over.

Trump could get convicted or impeached on one of the many cases he has coming up

Trump is effectively king now. SC made him immune to any and all prosecution while president. Laws only work if the will of the people make them work. The majority of Americans just crowned a king. They aren't going to make those laws work. You will not see justice for Trump's crimes now. That possibility is gone.

he could die, he could fully go dementia,

Doesn't matter. He will be replaced and nothing about this timeline will change.

I don’t think this is the worst timeline. there are way worse timelines.

I mean, obviously. But considering the two timelines we had an option to be on, we chose the worst. And it's going to be very, very bad for average Americans.

But "businessman good", right?

Lol. We're a nation of utter failures.

Yup. The Confederacy won this time. Prepare yourself for a bleak future.

Yup. As long as the Supreme Court is controlled by an ultra-conservative majority it's game over. They ultimately decide America's trajectory. And this election basically cemented that majority for the rest of our lives.

We just placed ourselves on the worst timeline.

No it won't.

The poster above had it right. The law only works if the will of the people make it work. Same applies to the Constitution.

Public schools in the bible belt have been teaching creationism and putting the ten commandments in their classrooms. Do you think the New Order we just elected are going to go out of their way to enforce the Constitution and make them stop doing things like that?

Be prepared for FLAGRANT violations of the Constitution in the coming years. I mean come on, the guy we just elected illegally attempted to overturn the last election and is a convicted felon.

It's over. America lost.

Not only did we squarely place ourselves on the path of economic/social decline for the foreseeable future, but we also just guaranteed that Trump will not be held accountable for his crimes.

We have utterly failed as citizens in a democratic society.

Buckle up. It gets much, much worse from here.

Trump goes full crazy and openly backs Russian expansionism.

This is exactly what will happen.

Trump's primary trait is to only help people that serve his personal interests. Putin does that. We can kiss Ukraine goodbye (one less democracy in the world) and we will now have to worry about Russia expanding and threatening Europe.

The decision Americans just made will have catastrophic effects on our democracy. We will, absolutely, be living with the negative effects of this decision for the remainder of our lives.

One guarantee is that we will have an ultra conservative Supreme Court for the remainder of our lives. In just the last few years an ultra conservative Supreme Court has removed women's federally protected right to bodily autonomy and decided that presidents are above the law and cannot be held accountable for anything they do while in office. Decisions like that will now continue for the rest of our lives, slowly altering the society we live in, and most likely rendering it unrecognizable by the time we die.

Trump ran on fundamentally changing our government, including dismantling the public educational system. He plans on making an anti-vaxxer the head of the Department of Health. We know Trump only helps those who benefit him personally. That means Ukraine is gone. That means Palestine is gone (I hope the liberals and independents that voted 3rd party or didn't vote over Palestine are happy about that one). Russia will expand their borders and threaten Europe. We will lose allies.

Trump and Elon Musk are vehemently anti-union. We will start seeing anti-union laws, weaking worker's rights and bargaining power. Obviously we will see a continuation and expansion of the persecution of immigrants and LGBTQ+. They promised mass deportations, which will remove a ton of cheap labor from our nation, which will negatively affect our economy.

In addition to the lifelong ultra-conservative Supreme Court we will see our federal courts stacked with conservative judges who will help push through the will of the Republican party for the remainder of our lives.

We've all heard about the tariffs. If you thought life was expensive now, buckle up. Donald Trump has filed for bankruptcy multiple times and has a rap sheet of failed businesses a mile long. He is not a good businessman and has absolutely no idea how to run a national economy. Even before the pandemic we were seeing the negative effects he was having on our economy. All metrics showed that post-pandemic we were recovering better than any other nation. You can kiss that goodbye.

The Repbulican party historically favors the wealthy, removing roadblocks designed to keep them in check, which ends up weakening the positions of average Americans. Trump will accelerate that. Prepare to watch the wealthy become even more powerful and average Americans lose what little power we have.

The last time they wre in total control the Republican party promised to address healthcare and infrastructure. They failed to do both. The Democrat president that came before addressed healthcare. The Democrat president that came after addressed infrastructure. Do not expect the Republican party to do anything to assist the average American.

I believe a lot of Americans live under the impression that no matter how bad things get, we can hit the reset button every 4-8 years. That simply isn't true. Even under a "normal" administration things can be set in place that are permanent, or that can only be changed through extreme effort over long periods of time. This administration promised changes to our government that cannot be undone without historically significant events, like war or revolution. They promised to change our system in such a way as to provide themselves with a permanent power shift. They attempted to overturn the last election. They've spoken about dealing with "the enemy within". Their representatives do not care about science. Their ranks are filled with conspiracy theorists. We just gave the keys to the kingdom to extremists with little to no government experience.

Make no mistake about this. What we just did changed the political paradigm for the rest of our lives and set us on a path of undeniable decline based on what we already know about Trump and the Republican party's history.

We just made a very, very large historical mistake. And we absolutely deserve the suffering that is to come, because it's our own fault. Be prepared for very hard times for the foreseeable future. Plan accordingly.

Not even close. This was a turning point election.

This election determined that we will live with an ultra conservative Supreme Court for the rest of our lives. In just the last couple years that court has removed women's federally protected right to bodily autonomy and determined that presidents are above the law and can't be held accountable for anything they do while in office. Decisions like that will continue for the remainder of our lives and chip away at our nation as we once knew it.

Trump's administration ran on making fundamental changes to our government, including deconstructing the department of education. He promised to make an anti-vaxxer the head of the department of health. Ukraine will cease to exist. Palestine will cease to exist. Russia will expand their borders and threaten Europe. America will lose allies. NATO will be weakened.

We made a criminal who failed his last term as president by every conceivable metric and illegally attempted to overturn an election the most powerful figure on the planet. He will fill all positions with unqualified toadies, just like he did last time when he had the highest White House turnover rate in US history.

What Americans just did was change the political order we will be living under for the foreseeable future. And no one will suffer more for that than your generation.

We categorically failed you and the decline we are about to experience could last a generation and the suffering is currently unquantifiable. The decision we just made will change the world we live in in a negative way we can't fully fathom yet.

The remainder of your life just got a whole lot harder and I'm sorry. I did not vote for it to be this way.

Realistically? It's too late.

We now have an ultra-conservative SC for the rest of our lives. The Republican party openly stated and ran on making fundamental changes to our government if they won the House/Senate/Presidency and to "defeat the enemy within".

It doesn't even really matter if the suffering that is coming shocks our society into rebounding in 4 years. The locked in SC and fundamental changes to our government will have already been set in place. Government departments will be run by appointees with absolutely no experience. Entire departments could be re-staffed with partisan political appointees if we are to believe the words of some of the people Trump promised to appoint. We have been placed squarely on the path to decline. That decline won't happen overnight, but in our lifetimes it will become undeniable. We will probably barely recognize this country by the end of our lives.

This election determined the political order we will live under for the rest of our lives.

Buy a gun. Try to find happiness within your immediate sphere. And stay safe, if you can. Very, very few people will come out on top in the scenario we now find ourselves in. Give it a few years and you'll see. They have total control now, so there's no one else to blame for the decline that's essentially guaranteed to become apparent in the near future. But I'm sure if they do fail, immigrants will be at the top of the blame list.

It was a worthy experiment while it lasted.