Their recruiting offices were set up directly across the street from my daughter's high school right next to the Burger King where all the seniors went to lunch.
Shady as fuck
They also exclusively target lower to middle class areas because rich people have options, and the capitalist oligarchy love that poverty to cannon fodder pipeline.
The one in my town is right next to GameStop.
Isn't there a law against people who take advantage of kids being near schools?
I went to highschool and university in the US - I was lucky that I got a scholarship and that covered pretty much all my tuition costs.
But I had a friend, one year older than me, who joined and served in the US army for something like 2 years just so he could get his university costs covered and to save some money for living expenses.
It may not be intentional, but the high cost of higher education is an excellent recruiting tool for the US military.
The poverty draft is very real. Usually it's for enlisted who have no other prospects. But I was in that same boat in college. 2 years in ROTC before something made me realize I was not going to enjoy military life and dropped it.
I went to school in a dirt poor place. Like half of my graduating class joined the military. Recruiters were in the halls like every week. Yeah, it's absolutely intentional.
It may not be intentional
Nothing is unintentional.
Wasn't there some tweet of a US general that said to not get rid of high college costs because they would get less soldiers signing up?
Totally not intentional, I'm sure.
Yes. It was. Now days most jobs offer to cover college. I want to know how they benefit because I don't get it.
They get relatively cheap, more educated workers for at least a short time. And they're often able to keep them at a cheaper salary than hiring someone with the same education. A (proactive) promotion that doubles your salary from $35 to $70k a year generates a lot of goodwill, even if that education and position would usually start at $90k.
Also people who "go to college" that work pays for don't live on campus, so the company is only on the hook for tuition, and not room and board. And it's often not full time. It's worth $10k/year for all that.
It's creepy that they're allowed to text children without their express consent. Assuming that this is a real text exchange and that OOP didn't wilfully give the recruiter their number earlier.
When I was a senior in high school back in the 2000's I got multiple cold calls from Army recruiters. I have no doubt that they've moved on to texting, and that this is legitimate.
Yep. Cold calls, emails, texts, whatever they could get their hands on all through my senior year in high school and at least my first two years of college. Not to mention their tables in the high school cafeteria, at robotics competitions, my engineering university's job fairs. Don't remember how I got them off my back, I might have just aged out of their main target cohort, but my mom likes to talk about how she told them she was pregnant (because she was lol) and they never contacted her again. Do with that information what you will.
So they’re old enough to decide to join the military but not old enough to handle receiving an unsolicited message on social media?
Sounds like you support actual grooming.
I'm going to college right now and I've been getting messages from recruiters lately. They literally text me from their work numbers now.
Not that it matters too much but it looks like Instagram or Facebook direct message
Back in the early 2000's I had a recruiter call my house asking for me, creepy AF.
Seeing the army recruitment at comic Con always skeeves me out. I see them talking to 16-17 year old socially awkward kids who don't know any better. Really predatory.
Really predatory.
It's interesting that the US has not signed the international agreement against child (<18 yo) soldiers - solely so that the US armed forces can sign 17 yo recruits.
I just thought the Comic-Con would have been a terrible recruiting ground. The military want people that follow orders. They actively discourage intelligence.
They don't though. Certain jobs don't need you to be a genius, but the military really wants all the smart people they can get.
And yeah, when you're in, it's about 50:50. You'll meet some of the smartest, generous, friendly people you'll ever know. And you'll meet some aggressive, angry, stupid knuckledraggers too.
Right, cause fucking weebs are known for their superior intelligence and independence in the face of authority.
I knew two people with mechanical engineering degrees who couldn't even make it through nuclear engineering school to work on submarine and carrier reactors, the military isn't made up of 100% dumbass infantrymen.
Throw 'em into boot, they either get ground down to follow orders or beat/shamed out. They're terribly good at psychological manipulation.
As far as intelligence, they know how to play the room now. They'll put you wherever you're best. They have a hell of a lot of tech now and aren't as keen on putting contractors in harms way. If you're better off as a grunt, you're a grunt. If you're skilled labor, they'll find a way to make you useful.
Not to say you should or shouldn't join. Skilled labor makes a hell of a lot more money other places.
I still fondly remember my friend Bob Niederider from high school in the '80s. One day an Army recruiter came to talk to our history class, and at the end he asked if anybody had any questions. Bob raised his hand and said "yeah I have a question: does napalm still stick to kids?" I didn't really appreciate this at the time - and the recruiter certainly didn't, either.
What was the response?
It was basically the scene in Full Metal Jacket where the Marine commander grills Joker about the peace sign and "Born to Kill" on his helmet.
Army recruiters in your school that somehow use social media to contact you?
Institutionalised creepiness.
Wait until you see "career day" at school.
I wasn't going to join anyway, but the military recruiter who came to my school in the 90s ensured I wouldn't enlist.
He ended literally ended every phrase or clause with "'n stuff." And I do mean literally. Every phrase or clause.
It went like this:
"If you wanna join the army 'n stuff, you gotta get fit 'n stuff because basic training ain't easy 'n stuff but if you start getting fit now, you'll do fine 'n stuff."
For 45 fucking minutes.
"For 45 fucking minutes, 'n stuff"
FTFY
Dude you post A LOT on Lemmy, and with personal information too. I haven't even clicked on your profile, but just from memore I should guess that you're a married Jewish male, in his mid to late 40s, with a queer daughter. (I think you also mentioned living in an east coast state... but this is just solely memory, not actually trying to stalk or doxx you).
If you haven't already done so, you might want to delete some of the posts that might have personal info.
I should guess that you’re a married Jewish male, in his mid to late 40s, with a queer daughter
Can't be too many of those, right?
I think you also mentioned living in an east coast state
I did not, however I can think of one or two East Coast states that have more than one or two married Jewish males in their mid to late 40s with a queer daughter.
I’ll go against the grain here.
I joined not long after high school because I wasn’t gonna be able to pay for college, not that I was a good student anyway.
Spent most of my 4 year Air Force enlistment in the UK doing what I wanted - sysad, basically. Never deployed.
Got out and worked for increasingly higher pay and now I make $250k+ without a college degree.
I joined not long after high school because I wasn’t gonna be able to pay for college, not that I was a good student anyway.
Should you not be pissed off that this was one of the very few options you had in order to have a chance at success later in life because of your economic situation rather than touting this as a good idea?
More options are better, usually, so sure, I would have liked the option not to join.
But like I said, I’m a terrible student and still haven’t gone back to use my education benefit even though it would cost me nothing but time.
I’m simply providing a counter to the sentiment “I don’t wanna die for some oil company”.
To be honest, I think it every time I see people complaining about their prospects. Rather than bitch about it online, I did something to upgrade my socioeconomic status.
^^ Found the lemmy air force recruiter
Well I am assigned to this community…
It is fairly dystopian in itself that army is used as a social mobility tool. A ton of resources go into luring young men into doing what is ultimately useless, dangerous and harmful. Resources that could be spent to help so much more people.
I’m afraid the world will soon find out what happens when the US doesn’t play world cop. I think the US and its allies will be worse off for it.
Given the choice between Russia, China, or the US, my choice is clear.
Regarding it being a social mobility tool, I’d like to think of myself as a realist, if nothing else. The facts remain:
- This is just how it is right now
- It works
Similar story. Air Force 6 years, barely a degree worth noting, and tech jobs since. And damn good times and friendships were had. Wouldn’t trade it for the world. But… I would take it back if I had killed people. Never wanted to do that. Thankfully there is more to the mission than killing innocents on behalf of oil magnates.
Yeah this government system sucks either go into massive debt, or risk dying or depression to protect the interests of a company extracting an obsolete fuel
I’m so envious. That’s what I wanted to do when joining the Navy. The paper said “advanced electronics computer field” and I ended up as an Electronics Technician. What a waste. The cost of ignorance is high. I didn’t have a mentor or father to guide me in such things. Now I’m in my late 30s studying AWS and tryin’ to make a change :-\
Same, gave me some experience and set me on my career path.
Did my 4 years on bases with no flight lines (Like being in the navy and never stepping foot on a ship, lol) and only deployed to humanitarian missions even though the first gulf war was going on.
Still keep in touch with people i worked/lived with all those years ago.
Different world now and am glad my children didnt have to make that decision.
Have you ever worked on anything that made you feel bad?
I hardly even know what most of these systems produce.
It’s like working on a vehicle engine without knowing where it’s been or where it’s headed.
I remember when the Xbox 360 came out, I was in high school.
The army brought a Ford Excursion that looked fresh off the Pimp my Ride show, with a huge flat screen that flipped down out of the back, 4 huge subs, and the current football game playing.
You could only play the Xbox if you signed up.
School recruiters are basically practicing pedophiles. They disgust me. They:
- hunt for vulnerable children, who might be more prone to complying due to trauma or disability or even just recent social happenings or baseline teenage angst
- try to talk to them one on one so adults won't interfere
- entice them with treats or games or other such things
- try to convince the kids to agree to do something they don't yet understand
The SOP of a school recruiter and that of a practicing pedophile are so similar that I wonder how many of the latter are created after someone has been the prior simply due to how the job demands you to operate and consider the kids as just resources... or how often the prior becomes a career path for the latter simply to justifiably increase their access to children.
Back in the late 2000s, I got pulled in to the office in high school because I told the recruiter visiting the school that he was a massive piece of shit and needed to stay away from me and my friends if he knew what was good for him. I said this after he sat down near me and, idk, tried to bond? By calling my female friend that left "a real hottie" and tried poorly to insinuate I could probably seal the deal if I was a hot army boy. Baseline revolting statement from an adult to a child for one, I'm gay for two, she was lesbian for three... so I said what I said and apparently my words were sufficiently hurtful that he ran to the admin to cry about it and I got told off because that kind of language and sentiment is unacceptable towards someone "just doing their job" at the school. They found no issue at the time with his ingratiation technique, though I never saw him again.
Everything about your story is just wow. It’s the exact sort of story you hear in gay bars in the city the rural folk flee to
And yeah I can’t disagree with your points. Recruiters are actively seeking kids out to get them traumatized or killed. Good on you for telling one off
Wow what the fuck
Man that is creepy. Some "I have candy in my van" vibes.
Literally an idiot trap
What in the actual fuck
I'm surprised they didn't have America's Army running there. That used to be a great game.
The recruiting office near me has a huge portable climbing wall.
I remember mowing the lawn at home in the early 2000s when an Army recruiter pulled up and tried to get me to sign up. We lived in a cul-de-sac, so he was clearly there for me. I was 17 at the time.
The older I get, the more creeped out I am that they showed up unsolicited and talked to me without one of my parents present.
I remember a recruiter coming up to me, trying to shame me.
"Don't you love your country?!" He shouted. This was after 9/11 too, and being brown, I didn't say what I wanted to say because i was 17 and was absolutely sure this guy would beat me up.
After 9/11 I had people telling me to look less Muslim so I wouldn't be targeted by crazy people. At the time, being brown and having a beard made you Muslim, which in turn made you a terrorist.
Sadly all the branches have one at the schools. I made the mistake of taking the ASVAB test in high school to get out of class, scored well and was hounded by all of these guys. The marine recruiter showed up at my house carrying a CRT TV/VHS combo to try and convince me to join lol
Marine got a workout that day
This was in FL too, this guy walked the walk I guess.
It was required in my school to take the ASVAB. If we missed we'd face repercussions. I purposely answered questions wrong-- not all of them because it would look too obvious, but I apparently still scored high enough that they still considered me. I got my results in class, we had someone from the military come speak with us and try to get us to sign up, and even text messages.
Shit was so fucking annoying.
I asked a friend of mine from where I used to live if she had to take it and she asked me what the fuck I was talking about.
I mean, shit, I guess when you live in a state that is known for having awful levels of education they figure they can shove you in the military instead.
...Or football.
What score do you think is the cutoff to not be called?
My guess is they call you regardless of score and use the score to decide how to make the sell. They need all levels of people to stand in front of bullets and maintain a base/outpost.
This is a good theory. I scored high on the ASVAB and recruiters would call me telling me I'd have an awesome technical career in the military where I'd get to play with James Bond style gadgets. I just so happened to be a bit of a nerd, but I still told them to fuck off.
It would make sense that they tailor the recruitment process to kids based on how they score on the ASVAB, and the score doesn't really matter. I wouldnt be surprised if they just use the lower scoring kids as some sort of cannon fodder.
My highschool had the same thing, they made it sound mandatory but a handful of us found out they couldn't force you to take it. So yea while 99% of my classmates took it the 5 of us got to sit in a empty classroom and wait it out
This sounds worse than sitting through a time share presentation.
But better than a friend trying to get me to join their downline.
Joke is on you; they left all the kids that made perfect scores alone. They knew they couldn't convince them to join.
How else are they going to help you leave the state? Teaching you math?
When I was in school we had to take it but the recruiters also passed back the results. So even if you didn't want to join it was supposed to be useful information about what you're good at doing.
Ironically they may have tried harder because you scored low. The phrase "Asvab Waiver" exists for a reason. And there's very few people who couldn't drive a truck or something useful.
Yeah, we had to take it in school as well. Since I had no interest in dying in Iraq, I just filled in bubbles at random. Still got phone calls and mailings aplenty begging me to join the military. They even mailed me a video game that the Army made, though I never played it so I don't know how bad it was.
Was it Americas Army? I played that when it released. Not bad. I’m not a fan of shooters, but it was at least interesting to see a game that had an honest attempt at making it as “real” as possible.
The sniper mission was the only thing I didn’t complete. It had one mission where you had to sit and wait for up to 48 hours real time before you could take a shot at your target. Neat concept, but totally impractical for a game.
America's Army was actually really good because of how realistic it was with respect to tactics
You probably got more phone calls because you scored low. Most recruiters aren't't exactly looking for the cream of the crop. They prey on desperate individuals who have no other choice.
if you still have that game it might be a good fit for the internet archive
Texas?
Close. Alabama
I'm from Kentucky and never had that, so idk.
My dad had to sign up for service in the military in Britain in the late 1940s when he turned 18. He never told me exactly how he got out of it (I suspect he pretended to be gay), but he did tell me about the "intelligence test" he had to take which sounded very similar to the cognitive diagnostic test Trump brags about. He said it was stuff like-
Which of these doesn't belong: Square, circle, triangle, elephant.
He finished it in about five minutes, asked if he could leave, and was told he had to wait until everyone finished or an hour had gone by. Apparently, by the end of the hour, there were people around him really struggling to finish.
Whats ASVAB
I don't know what it stands for, but it's basically a test for recruits to ensure they meet the basic levels of intelligence required to serve. ASVAB
War is lame. It's just a bunch of people killing each other while the real people in power sit in comfy chairs watching it all unfold. Can we just all get along?
Oh wait, you have oil? Oh, um, he hit me first. 💥🔫⚔️🛢️💯
🎵General's gathered in their masses🎵
It's not even much scenic and heroic, actually, despite armies trying their best to market it as all glossy and amazing.
Nah - just a meat grinder, dying in the dirt after your limbs got shredded by someone's grenade, or after getting a bullet into your chest. Painful. Lonely. Scary. Death. No one's gonna hail you; your corpse will be a shredded bloody meat covered in urine. A corpse that may never even get found. That's war.
And if you'll stay alive, you'll envy the dead. Death ahead, death behind. One order - and you can be convicted to certain end. In front - the enemy. On the back - soldiers of your own country ready to shoot you down. You lie in the trenches, hoping no grenade, no bomb will find its way there, your feet are cold, you feel feverish. No one cares. Everyone here is one foot in the grave. That's war.
Barely anyone who survives doesn't have severe PTSD. And the worst part - humans do it to themselves. For bullshit glory. Desperate for money. For their twisted model of honor. But really - because those in power don't see problem in letting other people die for their own interests.
If you're lucky to have never witnessed war, take a look at unedited, uncensored footage. Watch it, watch people die like animals for the most stupid reasons imaginable. Watch soldiers screaming in pain. Watch civilians dying in debris. That. Is. War.
We never deserved to have this on us, and it is people just like me and you who make this violence happen, who spill the blood, scared of meeting their own end right where they're at. This is stupid. This should end. And we can make a change.
Yes, all that is true. But, did you know they pay you? /s
Yup. Although it's not generally 1 per school. More like 1 per 10 schools. No different than job recruiters for any other field.
Huh, we had 7 for our school district (one for each branch, and I think the army and navy had two), but my high school alone did have just under 3000 kids.
We had all 7 of these guys (and one woman) going from class to class every day for a month giving four 90-minute presentations per day to pander and force-feed each individual classroom of ~30-50 students a glorified recruitment ad. They even set up one of the portable classrooms as a recruitment office for that month.
I'm curious, did the recruiters hand out forms to kids under 18 that required parent/guardian signatures?
I'm asking because ours did, and I could swear that these forms were a sort of pre-enlistment contract that needed parent/guardian signature in order to waive the 18+ requirement for agreeing to enlist. So although we wouldn't actually be enlisted until we turned 18, we could agree to enlist beforehand with a parent's signature. But, as strong as that memory is, I still can't help but doubt myself because of how insane and illegal that all sounds.
Enlistment papers are thick. Unless they were handing out packets it was probably just a permission slip. Also, while I could see one of them being shitty enough to try and trap kids into the military this way, there's no way the other 7 wouldn't protest and get in their way. And not even on moral grounds. They're all competing for recruits.
Do American schools have a lot of job recruiters who have access to the kids private data?
No? They run tables at career fairs and beg for email addresses on their sign up sheets.
It's pretty fucked, honestly. They regularly posted up in the lunchroom at my school, recruiting students with promises of scholarships.
We didn't get text messages like this, but I'm not surprised to see it. I do wonder how they get the numbers though. Is it just data broker bullshit or is the school system selling out their own students' information?
My college definitely gave out student contact info to the ROTC/National Guard recruiters. I got more than one unsolicited text exactly like the one in the OP throughout college.
Hi I'm SSG Douchenozzle, ever had a nightmare that you can't wake up from? With PTSD we can make that your reality.
Wait till OP hears about mandatory service in other countries.
Do the kids of the ownership classes also have to serve with the rest of the grunts? Or are they sectioned off to champaign units the way George W. Bush did his Coast Guard tour? Or given exception like for Trump's bone spurs?
If aristocrats are on the front line with the of the enlisted, there might be better regard for vets.
I wonder if those countries also face the same degrees of top-down abuse and sexual assault for which the US Army is reputed.
War is Hell, but the US armed forces have more special hells than Big Trouble in Little China
Do the kids of the ownership classes also have to serve with the rest of the grunts?
You will never see the child of a ruler get sent to the front lines.
They all have enough money to avoid serving, anyways. Just go to a different country.
Over in Russia, the art of dodging the draft is a finely developed one. It has been so even before the, ahem, special military operation.
We had a recruiter 20 years ago. The kids are smarter these days tho it seems.
Wait till you learn about places with conscription.
That is hell. Living in a country with mandatory conscription, I do a lot of legal work never to get there.
I am civilian. Fuck everyone who thinks they can force me to be any else.
In the US, you're still required to register with the government agency in charge of conscription when you turn 18 if you were born male. Just in case it might be needed in the future.
That law is so unpopular they stopped charging people for failing to register 40 years ago, and instead made proving you did prerequisite for various things (again, if born male). If you fail to register, you are simply banned from a bunch of jobs and educational options.
Boy am I glad I left such a place as a youngster.
Taiwan is one of them, I am never going back again.
I've got forced military service, but my country ain't at war, so I've just gotta work 6 months in shitty jobs, that are necessary for society for free. Oh, and your free time in the barracks consists of drinking beer, playing cards and smoking
Imma be real with you, every country that has a military recruits from schools. Lots of countries don't even ask, they just make you go in anyway. America isn't an oddity at this.
Never even heard of one in my country. Recruiters are rarely seen outside at all.
The oddity is having a military recruiter for a specific school. All we had was a stand for the military at a fair with all studies options (context: belgium)
Hahaha no they don't. There's only a select few countries with mandatory service too.
I know that my country has a military and doesn't recruit from schools. You actually have to put in a lot of effort to get selected. (Although this might be because we are the most populous country in the world.)
When I was in high school, during the last 3 months of the school year ... I forget if they were the Army or the Marines, but they had a table with a display and two guys in the hallway right outside the cafeteria.
That waa back when the coolest phone you could have was a Motorola Razr and computers still had mice with rubber balls instead of lasers... MySpace era. So they just set up in the most highly foot trafficked area of the school.
Same, except it was one guy and the coolest phone you could get was a Nokia brick. It was a super poor school so no one had one.
I very much remember wanting to get the limited edition phone that they actually made, an actual working phone that was pretty darn close to the one the characters used in the 2nd and 3rd Matrix movies, haha.
/Then I would be cool/ rofl.
EDIT: Remember when people would actually clip songs or sounds and had to manually make them your ring or msg tone?
Nowadays everyone just pays for them.
You can still do a custom tone and what not, without paying, at least on android, but nobody seems to do that anymore.
...optical mice are way older than Razr phones and Myspace
You are technically correct but id say optical mice were not exactly common generally in non collegiate school settings, or general consumer or general office use surpassing the popularity of the older mice till the late 00s, though of course there will be exceptions basically depending on how wealthy an area is.
the first Razr came out in 2004. Facebook, the thing that killed MySpace, required a coledge.edu email until 2006. Apple was still selling the Puck mouse in 2000, and Logitech introduced the first laser-powered mouse the MX 1000 in 2004. The death of myspace the track ball mouse and the heyday of the Razr phone all defiantly overlapped in the mid 2000s.
SSG means sexy space girl or super Saiyan god?
Super ShotGun
SauSaGe
how did SSG CarbonizedMiddleEasternToddler even get this kid's number? Like, are schools colluding with recruiters to just ship underperforming kids off to die?
My college sold me out. (Or got hacked or something).
They misspelled my middle name and suddenly, I got bank offers and all sorts of weird shit with that misspelling. I'm actually thankful they misspelled it because it helped me pinpoint my shitty college as the culprit.
I won't be surprised high schools do it too. A little "oops I didn't know" deniability and "fuck those kids" adult mentality.
My college sold me out.
I went to a state school in the early 90s. Taking a specific sequence of physics classes was the cue for Navy nuke tech recruiters. And they were aggressive. Turns out someone in the registrar's office would search for students with that class sequence and sell the info to Navy recruiters. The person got fired, and there was a bunch of pearl-clutching. And yet military recruiters are still such a fixture of college campuses.
Yeah I read recently that selling student data is a pretty common practice for colleges. It's good income for them, and students aren't able to track it easily so they don't make a fuss.
I believe this particular communication is through Instagram messages.
When i was in high school 2003, my physics class devoted an entire period to a military recruiter... Sufficed to say, only the redneck kids were interested.
I went to college in my 30s and got texts and calls from recruiters for months. I never knowingly gave my contact info to them, so I'm assuming they got it from the school.
I had a very anti-war sociology professor that had been protesting since vietnam. Despite his qualms with military industrial complex, he would always say that the the military is the last vestige of upward mobility in the united states as it's one of the few places where you can enter a playing field that is somewhat leveled for new entries, have merit impact your growth, and get access things like subsidized education. Sure there's still racism, sexism, etc. but in terms of economic mobility it provides a decent ladder.
I once read an article that basically called the military a billion dollar vocational school program and it really shifted my perspective. Like I kinda don't give a shit about most people or why they join - maybe it's that chance at upward mobility, maybe it's the desire to serve a cause, maybe it's a desire to feel a part of something bigger, all of which are legit human needs and desires. As an idea, I'm kind of neutral leaning towards negative in the military. It's when I start looking at it in the broader context thag I get angry, and it's not necessarily at the rank and file, and sometimes not even the mid to high leadership. It's the presidents and the politicians and business people who lead the whole thing and play games with people's lives. I even have sympathy for the angry knuckle dragging meatheads because they just got duped, again, by the ruling class.
You'll probably be shipped off to Africa at some point. America isn't interested in oil anymore, it's all about them minerals so we can build them high tech weapons.
Probably. China is investing heavily in several African countries. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a proxy conflict or “police action” there. However, we’re going to have to extricate ourselves from our China Dependency more first before we engage in conflict. Them squeezing our supply lines wouldn’t go well. That’s what happens when profits overrule national security.
Vibranium is where it's at
Sorry, I'm looking for that Unobtainium.
Vibranium = Gold, Tin, Tantalum and Tungsten which are all essential in microchip manufacturing, but yes.
Bro everything in our life revolves around oil. Also American 'energy independence' is a myth. But yes, minerals are also important.
No, America is energy independent, its allies and trading partners are not, that is why the US cares about global oil availability.
Always has been.
The meaning of "recruiter for your school" might have more to do with the Army coordinating who is actively recruiting where, than someone who is permanently installed at said school. So more "I'm the recruiter the Army designated for" than "I'm your school's recruiter". Big difference. I've never heard of the latter.
I recall a few weeks back in the 1990's where different armed forces recruiters were allowed to set up a booth in my HS cafeteria. In hindsight, it seems like the faculty should have launched a whole job fair while they were handing out favors. Which just raises more questions. Anyway, this recent social media angle fits with the same M.O. - they're super aggressive and will work every angle to get closer to potential recruits.
The bigger problem is that, like all military posts, they rotate people frequently. IMO, there's little incentive to strictly observe social norms since they're never sticking around for more than a couple years. Yes, you can report people, but that has got to feel like playing whack-a-mole.
Back in 2001 the recruiter at my high school very nearly convinced my girlfriend at the time to join up. She was not cut out for that life, and did eventually back out.
My school's recruiter specifically targeted athletes. Like I'm trying to get a college scholarship, not join the ROTC
this is what happens when your training gives your members permanent irreversible brain damage (haha i love concussions)
The us military is a fascinating thing.
I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from but concussions are probably one of the plethora of shitty things that you actually aren't exposed to during training. Concussions and TBI are common because of close contact with explosives in combat zones mostly, not in training.
Of course I'm not defending the military and their practices, I was in the Marine Corps myself, this bit is just not true though.
This whole comment section is full of people who never served talking like they know what it’s like.
it's not a literal concussion. It turns out the percussive blasts that shit like mortars are artillery produce are akin to concussive injuries to the brain. (with enough and repeated exposure, much like concussions) Which isn't really surprising when you think about it.
I will say the irony of someone who was in the military discounting this is pretty funny though.
And how do you propose they be trained? VR?
with regards to their physical health, that would be a good start probably...
A soldier that has brain damage and cannot make a good decision is not a good soldier, nor is that something we should be doing to them to begin with.
I thought you were talking about the school football players.
they also get that problem but last i checked they aren't trained by the military so.
While in my country, some recruitee bribe the recruiter to be able to join...
What county is this?!
I don't know if bribery happens but joining is very desirable in India
The proud Republic of Unemploymentia, maybe?
No bribery as far as I know, but getting selected for the army is quite hard in India. But we haven't been at war for over twenty years and you get a good pension and a lot of benefits.
i went to a high school that had a JROTC program so having a recruiter was extremely expected for me, but forthem to send unsolicited recruitment texts lol? yall go to some sussy ass schools
Lot of people in here who are very uncomfortable with the fact that the world is a messy place made up of almost entirely morally grey issues with exclusively morally grey situations. Good, now do something about it.
Good, now do something about it.
Like.. protest against it?
Hmm I wonder what sort of forms protesting a thing can take? Surely posts on the internet don't qualify right?
"Everything shit so why bother" is your take?
https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/war-for-oil-conspiracy-theories-may-be-right
don't like the army? do something about it
doing anything about it is prevented by... the army
such an intelligent take.
such an intelligent take
You can join or help the Progressive International. Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine is on the council.
"What do you mean "the"?"
Army is a bunch of parasites on the face of the Earth. Parasites that set the rules, as any ruler turning against them will be overthrown.
Army doesn't make any productive labor; instead, it siphons trillions of dollars making the machines intentionally designed to kill people - and puts them to use.
Society loses literally nothing without armies. They don't "protect" you from anything but other armies, and without armies and wars and threats we could move way further as a humanity.
Don't let anyone brainwash you into accepting this monstrosity. Army is bullying their own countries, bullying and extorting each and every one of us. They are the real enemy. And they will do everything in their power to distract you from that.
I apologize in advance of the things I am about to say to you but this has to be one of the most naive and sophomoric statements I have ever read, so I'm going to address you as a teenager because I hope nobody gets to adulthood believing such bullshit.
To start with I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a substantial percent of humans are violent by nature, which means there is no amount of logical debate that will convince someone to not take your things or your life. This transcends to the national level which is why every peaceful nation in history has an army, for self-defense.
Army doesn't make any productive labor? My brother in Christ you are on the internet. Which means you are using a software that implements TCP/IP protocols specifically designed to build the . . . Drumroll . . . ARPANET! For the US military? Did you type that comment with your phone? Did you use GPS today? Hell the entire space race was funded for military reasons!
I have to envy you though. Thinking that you can simply argue your way out of any confrontation without the threat of violence, must be nice. Ask Palestinians or Ukranians what they think of that.
Full agreement. My heart is with OP, but it's a sad fact of life on this planet that peace without violence or threat of massive violence just is not usually possible.
The truth is there are fucked up people out there, and worse there are the real parasites that seem to love licking the boots of horrible people (staring at Trump and his ass lickers).
Honestly one just has to look at nature - everything from the bacteria to the plants to the birds and mammals are in a constant fight to the death over their next meal or territory - us primates have not been able to escape it, and I don't think we will (staring at water scarcity, food scarcity, upcoming energy crisis, upcoming climate change crisis, etc etc). Sprinkle a little bit of population explosion into the mix, along with wealth disparity - It's just gonna get fucking worse going forward I fear
Oh, sorry, but I am an adult. And, while I'm gonna skip your condescension, to which I see no place on Lemmy, I can't help but point this is where you get complicit with all of that monstrosity. My point is - for as long as we try to talk of armies as inevitable, even if bad, no change will be made. And we should push for their abolition - they won't be removed fully overnight, that would be the most naive thing to expect - but the problem remains that they are parasites and we should not just accept that. The more people understand a little about what army is and what it does (pitches people against eachother and spills blood and destruction, that is all) and stop excusing it, the more chances we have at actually pushing the policy towards demilitarization again, curbing the current war craze.
The violent percentage of humans are held well by the police, and on the national level the policy should be dictated by the masses, i.e. we should have and uphold democracy, which is a base struggle we already have.
I'm well aware Army made ARPANET, but the Internet as we know it was a public civilian endeavor, so it is not fair to attribute it to army to begin with. GPS - sure, but after that we, again, have seen the rise of navigation systems built with civilian focus, and currently the civilian purpose is more than reason enough to sustain it. You might argue that army was still the first, to which I'll say - yeah, they were the first to funnel money that could go to public research which would make it civilian from day 1, while making proper use of money currently wasted developing more technological ways of killing each other.
The space race was a vanity project first and foremost, aimed at showcasing national prestige. It started without military purpose (just a beeping satellite) and it always kept that way, with just some exceptions like certain Space Shuttle programs (that would happen anyway). Currently, almost everything in space is civilian-purpose.
As per Ukraine and Palestine...you might have skipped the part when Russian and Israeli Ministries of Defence (ironic, huh? they're all talking defence to sugarcoat their true purpose) caused it all. Armies are only good at fighting back other armies, and my proposition is not to have either to begin with, or at least drastically reduce them to decrease the potential for suffering - i.e. leveling of Ukraine and Palestine.
You lift the mask off the Military, and it's Imperialism. Lift the mask again and it's Capitalism.
"And I'm getting away with it too, despite you meddling kids!"
An unfortunate reality - one that I have to admit as a communist myself - is that imperialism doesn't have to come from capitalist powers, even though capitalism has a distinct way of causing it and pretty much constantly leads to imperialist outcomes.
Aside from dismantling capitalism, we have to dismantle authoritarianism and we have to distribute power as evenly as possible. One man's unhealthy ambitions or political games can cause a lot of harm if this man is given full power.
l don't think there has been a year without war, in the last 6000 years.
Thanks for posting this, we seem to be going through a kind of renaissance of militarism. Or pacifism or "world peace" seems like an outdated concept. Like we've just accepted that it will always be like this and that conflicts are just normal part of civilization. A kind of capitulation.
Basically the army has become a kind of welfare program that dumps money into the hands of the military industrial complex and employs people that otherwise would be out of a job.
We need to get back to the plot of demilitarization and only having a UN peacekeeping force that can be deployed without every imperialist having a veto. And eliminating all nuclear weapons.
But we are very far away from that, especially with the rise of fascism and nationalism everywhere (which is the end result of capitalism) and climate change turning the world into a powder keg. It's almost assured that we will have nuclear war in the next century if nothing changes.
Which is exactly why we should fight back and never ever capitulate. This matter is existential, and it drives me insane seeing people just accepting their doom.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Hammers in search of nails.
They don't "protect" you from anything but other armies
Yes, but other armies do exist. And that will always be the case. There's no way to convince everyone to not have an army, especially because someone would have to be first and no one would want to do that because then they are defenseless.
We don't have to remove all army overnight, and we have a body to discuss demilitarization efforts - the United Nations. Moreover, military alliances should be reformed to include everyone who signed up for demilitarization in order to have enough collective power to defend from others and enforce compliance.
With enough political will - will that should come from the bottom up, from us - we can push governments to discuss that. But instead a lot of people just get into that "inevitability" trope and do nothing to stop the meat grinder - especially in countries like the US or Russia or Israel or other corrupt forces.
Here in Mexico, if they did that, an army of moms would kick their green asses in all of their offices.
(UK here) We had some people from the “Territorial Army” (basically reserves as far as I know?) and almost immediately lost the entire attention of class. No one would pay them any attention or sign up
You know, there's an aspect to the bond, the camaraderie, the discipline, the fitness that I really appreciate about soldiering. Growing up with films like Band of Brothers practically on repeat, having read pretty close to every book that came out from those guys — well, I have admiration. But at the same time as I grew up and became more leftist I of course had many issues with the volatility of our leadership.
If I could've joined Norway, Canada, or German armed forces under the NATO banner, I may very well have done that. After seeing everything transpiring in Ukraine, I often wonder if I'd have the courage to do what those brave people are doing every day. In the right context, under purely defensive conditions, I'd like to think I would've thrived, but who knows...
But second to volatile leadership is quite honestly the type of people the military tends to attract. The desperate, the jar-head conservative types. If life is on the line, I'd rather not be in a foxhole with them if I'm honest.
But there's a lot of talk that finally the culture may be shifting within the US Military — to attract smarter, better educated people. I know a lot of conservatives are retiring early and not joining up because they feel the "culture is changing," which is a good sign to me.
The desperate, the jar-head conservative types. If life is on the line, I’d rather not be in a foxhole with them if I’m honest.
Conservatives are all about making small in-groups and large out-groups. If you're in the out-group, go fuck yourself. If you're in the small in-group, their life goal is to elevate their in-group above all the out-groups.
In a foxhole, conservatives and liberals are pretty much the same. Only the people in the foxhole matter at that moment.
It's when they come home and conservatives can't give a damn about more than a dozen people and can only see six months into their future that is the real problem.
Fair point, and to that I admittedly use this as an explanation for why Ukrainians can fight side-by-side with the likes of more right-wing extremist groups in their military (e.g., Azov). It would be little different if the United States was attacked and I and some dude from the Proud Boys / Oathkeepers / The Base / 3%ers was with me and we were fighting to protect our family.
In that respect, sure. I just couldn't pursue it during domestic peacetime as a career given that and the volatility I mentioned.
That's really interesting. I'd never considered where Germany would find experienced commanders to support their role in NATO and be the front line with the Soviets. It's obvious in retrospect I suppose.
It's very similar to people like Werner Von Braun that went to the US, were key to the space race, but also key to advancing the technology that went into military missiles etc.
The only armed forces worth joining IMO are UN Peacekeepers.
NATO will always struggle with that very leadership issue, it is not representative of humanity and can be used in an offensive.
I just hope more power will go to forces that are actually aimed at curbing any sort of violence on Earth.
That's the only good use of the military.
Dude the fact that you said 'soldering' made me think this was either a shitpost or a copypasta
LOL
Can't you get paid to become an officer with a good non-combat role in the US? Sure being cannon fodder sucks but becoming an engineer or a doctor at their expense can be a decent upstart.
Not everyone can be an officer. They're basically upper management in the military; there's way more enlisted than officers, and the officers are held to such high standards, it's hard to qualify to become one.
Source: I spent 20 years as an enlisted guy in the US Air Force. Considered going officer, but there was way too much politics and regulation involved. Screw that. Just let me do my job and go home at the end of the day.
I worked as an IT guy in the Air Force. I was always far removed from battles, and I joined right before the 2003 Iraq War kicked off. Serving in the military isn't bad, as long as you pick the right career field. Army and Marines abuse the hell out of their people. They treat them like govt property and they always get the worst of everything. The Navy and Air Force actually take care of their guys, though.
The Navy and Air Force actually take care of their guys
As an ex-USN carrier type, there’s a common phrase used in the fleet: choose your rate (MOS), choose your fate.
My carrier, the Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72), was (and probably still is) among the shittiest commands a sailor could be assigned to, and during the five years I spent aboard it as an E-5, I saw just about the very worst it had to offer. Deck Department got brutalized, and so did the nukes in the Reactor Department and the snipes in Engineering. The AZ’s (Aviation Administration) had it fairly good, all things considered.
The ship was bad enough that I EAOS’d from the fleet off of it, and never looked back.
The fleet can very easily be just as horrifying as the Army and the USMC, just in different ways. Luck is not always the lady.
In the UK, the colloquially named Chair Force had some NCO's go through who stuck out their term in a field that had lots of factors that transferred across to civilian employment. Top of the tree was air traffic controllers - certain branches of the RAF's ATC capability was based at Swanwick anyway so if they ever went to the National Air Traffic Service, a lot of the time they could pick up their stuff from their desk on their last Friday, and move it across the room to another desk for when they came back in new clothes on Monday morning.
Vets are another field that is great to get into if you want your fees paid for, but most of those are officer grades, same deal as pilots. The clerks are generally well trained too - those who used to "fly a desk" as they put it, went on to be good accountants and heath and safety ninjas.
Certainly for the UK, the military gave the option to poorer backgrounds to get expensive qualifications while not generally going near theatres or on deployments.
Spent 14 years in the Navy, and they don’t care much for their people either, just in a different way from the Army and the Marines. Imagine the Air Force but like 1/3rd as much money to spend on its people because they spent the rest on ships.
I once saw a junior officer get chewed out by a superior for using the word "ain't". I knew then that I could never measure up to those kinds of standards, and would go crazy if I tried.
There are ethical reasons not to though. You would still support a hyper aggressive military that constantly attacks other countries and kills innocents all over the world.
True. The taxes you pay do that already though, might as well get a degree and leave as soon as you can if it is a good option.
That's like applying to McDonald's as a burger flipper, hoping to become a ceo
Well in my head it isn't crazy, you can join the royal military school of Belgium with a high school diploma and get a degree while being paid, fed and hosted. It isn't great fun and they're pretty strict, and you have to serve them for five years (or sometimes more) afterwards, but it's a pretty good deal if you don't want to spend a lot of money on prolonged studies like becoming a surgeon.
"Hey, cool, were friends now, but seriously how you gonna get health insurance or pay for college? Sure would be a shame if..."
Nice.
When I was in high school and I replied to the appearance of an army recruiter in my social studies class I objected to his presence there with the phrase, "surely you don't think it's appropriate for you to be here recruiting impressionable youth to bomb brown people in the name of fascism?" My teacher made me stand in the hallway and gave me a "0" on the days quiz. There was no fucking quiz.
I once stole an entire stack of pamphlets from a miltary recruiter it was hilarious.
I wish I was asked to join the army, but no. They just send me a letter and then expect me to join. If I don't, they will drag me there by force. The whole ordeal would be easier if they just did it like this and I could send a meme saying that I don't want to join.
Treat these guys like the scum they are. "Oh cool what does ssg stand for? Sucky sucky guy?"
and they wonder why they're considered a nation of fuckin rednecks
