"Old and quite weird": Democrats finally discover new effective attack — and Republicans hate it
"Old and quite weird": Democrats finally discover new effective attack — and Republicans hate it
After nearly a decade of being forced to take Trump seriously, Democrats increasingly call BS on the whole charade.
After nearly a decade of being forced to take Trump seriously, Democrats increasingly call BS on the whole charade
Sure, Donald Trump is a threat to democracy — a would-be dictator on day one who has called for terminating the U.S. Constitution so he can hold onto power even after losing a free and fair election. But while draped in the rhetoric of populism, Trump and his MAGA movement are not actually popular; the man himself has never won more votes than the person he ran against, a majority of Americans twice rejecting him and his off-putting cult of personality. That he was ever president is more or less because a few thousand swing voters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania thought it would be fun.
President Joe Biden won in 2020 largely by promising to a return to normalcy and baseline competency. In 2024, Democrats are making a similar argument but more forcibly: They’re pointing, laughing and dismissing Trump and his circus as a total freak show to which we can’t return.
I find it quite strange that "old and weird" seems to work better than "corrupt and criminal".
Probably for 2 reasons:
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quote "all politicians are corrupt and criminal" so this tactic doesn't land (look at the dem senator from NJ)
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few people know convicted felons but they do know "old and weird" people, so they can better draw personal parallels
I think the "weird" attribution has a way of infecting his supporters as well.
If you support a criminal, that doesn't necessarily make you a criminal. If you support a corrupt politician, that doesn't make you a corrupt politician.
But if you support somebody weird? Well that makes you weird. Trump's weirdness infects you. It's the cheese touch of politics.
It's also a plausible way out. Someone can convince themself that Trump was not as old and weird 10 years ago, so they did not make a mistake voting for him then
(look at the dem sensor from NJ)
The one that we're forcing out, yes. Not as fast as we got rid of Anthony Weiner, but they're out.
The worst Dems have at the federal level might be Pelosi making stock trades. You know, like half of congress, but for some reason only she (rightly) gets attention for it. Maybe we should include more people than just Pelosi in that conversation.
Yes, that's probably how it is - pretty sad tho.
A decent number of people also know people who got railroaded into bullshit legal problems.
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I think it's because for so long they've relied on Democrats/people on the left (I say that because it's not just in the US, it's become the right-wing tactic all over the place) being serious and arguing in good faith, IE: they'll just say the wildest shit that's blatantly untrue, and people on the left tend to bust out the facts and links to long explanations of why that's false, and they just counter it with more nonsense until their opponents get tired and quit, then they proclaim victory. But if you just go "you're weird, fuck you" and then refuse to follow up on it they kind of don't know what to do with it.
Also, the amount it's pissing them off means it's working, everyone keep doing it!
arguing in good faith [edit:
faithwas originally missing. That's what I get for Lemmy on the toilet-ing]I specifically remember Trevor Noah having an opening monologue to the Daily Show some time just prior to or after Trump having taken office about this exact topic. Essentially he was saying it allowed Trump to control the narrative. Every time he lied, the left leaning media would be off digging up facts and statistics to come back and says "ah ha ya! Look at this!" But by the time they get back to respond, he's gone off and changed the topic and made another blatantly false condemnation of some group of people. And so the cycle repeats itself.
Noah's proposed solution was the same as a child having a tantrum: ignore them. When things go wrong, make it clear why it's a result of his policies or rhetoric. Stop playing politics like you're playing them with a competent adult. You're not.
But if you just go "you're weird, fuck you" and then refuse to follow up on it they kind of don't know what to do with it.
Well, if it were that easy, the right would've been beaten a long time ago. If Kamala ever gets a chance to debate Trump (spoiler: he will never debate her) she isn't going to just respond to everything he says with some variation of "you're weird; fuck you".
It's because it's a fascist movement.
Fascism is organized around a strong leader who supposedly embodies the values of the movement. A fascist leader isn't a leader who's thoughtful and fair, they're strong, determined, filled with righteous anger, etc.
Corrupt and criminal can be twisted into those characteristics. It's not "corruption", it's taking advantage of suckers. Something you have to be clever and ruthless to do. It's not "criminal", it's ignoring laws meant for lesser people.
On the other hand, a fascist leader's image isn't compatible with weakness and strangeness. Fascism is all about claiming the national identity is under threat by "others", immigrants, intellectuals, homosexuals, etc. The fascist leader needs to be seen to embody all that's good and right about the true national spirit. But, if they're seen as weak and weird, that's not something anybody wants to associate with.
To add to that I'd like to quote Ian Danskin (aka Inuendo Studios) from his guest lecture about Gamergate at UC Merced:
Bob Altemeyer has this survey he uses to study authoritarianism. He divides respondents into people with low, average, and high authoritarian sentiments, and then tells them what the survey has measured and asks, “what score do you think is best to have: low, average, or high?”
People with low authoritarian sentiments say it’s best to be low. People with average authoritarian sentiments also say it’s best to be low. But people with high authoritarian sentiments? They say it’s best to be average. Altemeyer finds, across all his research, that reactionaries want to aggress, but only if it is socially acceptable. They want to know they are the in-group and be told who the out-group is. They don’t particularly care who the out-group is, Altemeyer finds they’ll aggress against any group an authority figure points to, even, if they don’t notice it, a group that contains them. They just have to believe the in-group is the norm.
Its really fascinating. Their image is to embody what is "normal", "natural", "right". They're bullies, claiming they're better than everyone else, and using those differences to push that superiority.
It turns out the most effective method to combat bullies is to.... bully them. Point out how abormal, unnatural, and inferior they are. Its such a core element of their existence that they fall apart without it.
I'm not proud of it. But also, I'm not crying about it.
It was creepy how many times they said the words "strong" and "strength" during the Republican convention. They worship strength. Might makes right.
i think corrupt and criminal works in messaging toward independents; old and weird works against republicans.
Yeah, the whole thing about a coup attempt and trying to overthrow our democracy wasn't landing... but "old and weird" is somehow catching on?
I think at least some of it is because republicans already call democrats corrupt and criminal. When the dems come back and make the same accusations it just looks like bickering. Ideally the substance of such claims would matter but current political discourse in the US prioritizes sound bites and quips
And they’re not even being real about it.
“You know there’s something wrong with people when they talk about freedom — freedom to be in your bedroom, freedom to be in your exam room, freedom to tell your kids what they can read,” Walz said. “That stuff is weird. They come across as weird. They seem obsessed with this.”
And buttigieg: “Republicans, including Fox News anchors, “will take a look at Donald Trump and say he’s perfectly fine, even though he seemed unable to tell the difference between Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi; even though he’s rambling about electrocuting sharks and Hannibal Lecter; even though he’s clearly older and stranger than he was when America got to know him,” Buttigieg said. “They say he’s strong as an ox, leaps tall buildings in a single bound. We don’t have that kind of warped reality on our side.”
I actually felt a strange sort of relief when I opened this article and saw the headline. But after reading it…that’s it? Why can’t they come out and talk like real-ass people? We get it, you’re professional politicians that are soooo smart. But level with people, for fucks sake.
Just in the middle of a typical dem speech, even if it’s scripted, go “off script” like:
[…]and…I mean. Maybe this isn’t ‘proper,’ but forget proper for a minute…what the hell is wrong with trump? And Vance, for that matter. Why are we all pretending this is normal? That what they say and do is normal? These aren’t normal people. They’re…weird. Really weird. And frankly—they’re just hateful assholes. We can’t let these freaks have any real power again. We remember last time, right? It was horrifying for a lot of people. Good people were being threatened for who they are. Forget that. We can’t let these weird, sad wannabe fascists take power. Give a wannabe fascist any power, and they’re not “wannabe” anymore. They can just be fascists. And with this corrupt Supreme Court? We would be in deep shit. I get it, we outside of the freak show that is the far right, have our differences. Those to the left of us don’t think we do enough. Those to the right of us think we do too much. But, no matter what, we aren’t those freaks. And right now, that is the most important thing. Keeping wannabe dictators and bonafide weirdos away from the adult’s table. We want to do more for everyone. And keeping trump and Vance and all of the equally strange and hateful Republican grifters and con artists will allow us to do more. So…let’s try to keep this asylum from falling to the inmates.
Democrats have just decided that “decorum” and appearances are still somehow the way to go. Be fuckin real with people. Don’t give us the form letter politician shit. That is obviously where we’re at as a country. The sooner they learn that the better chance they’ll have.
We need David Tenant to go on some social media platform and say to the world, "Doesn't Ex-President Trump look tired?"
The whole schtick the right wing is selling is trying to claim that they are the normal Americans.
When you point out that it is weird as hell to worship a reality TV star while wearing diapers and fake ear bandages, they are forced to look in a mirror and realize that actually, no, they are not the normal ones.
The reason it works is because there is no refuting it other than, "Nah uh!" It's almost the equivalent to repeating someone's argument back to them in a tone to sound stupid. HOWEVER, this tactic works when arguing with a kindergartner, so it works here too.
It's also a primal fear for narcissistic men to be called 'weird' or 'creepy' by attractive women.
Get out of my brain.
I was literally just wondering why it's so effective and I think it's this.
Most liberal "insults" are draped in facts and figures, to the point that Republicans just close their ears and say AlTeRnAtIvE fAcTs.
I think the simplicity, and it's fact-less insult cuts through their reasoning brains (which there wasn't much of) and hits them in the emotional centers.
I mean....it took Democrats 6 years to figure this out?
Better late than never but happy we're finally hitting below the belt.
That might be part of it, but the Republicans tried a similar attack against Biden and it mostly didn't land. It only works when it's true in the sense that the average person genuinely finds the position or behavior in question disturbing.
queue up the Faith No More song Kindergarten
Eggs. They're not weird.
Laughter is a great weapon, as even the Irish Bards of old knew. And the plus point is that it is true, they are old and weird. They want to go round inspecting children's genitals.....definitely weird. They rather mothers die than get medical treatment in an event of a dangerous pregnancy. Likewise, they think child marriages are OK. They think forcing women to have babies is OK but passing laws to help those babies live is not. They want to go back in time and roll back all the progress society has made in being kinder, fairer and more inclusive. They love conspiracies and think they have special secret knowledge . There is so much more,I hope someone turns it all into a catchy song that goes viral.
There's two sides to that.
Some of them are like tucker Carlson or Boris Johnson. They look ridiculous on purpose so that's what people talk about instead of the horrendous shit they're advocating for.
So by all means laugh at them, it hurts their follower count. But don't outright dismiss them.
They might be stupid and weird that doesn't make them less dangerous
I think the point is that they are all old, weird, and dangerous. Vance isn't old, but he is weird and dangerous.
And let's be clear, this is a different kind of weird. I'm weird, but I'm weird because I like kids shows, make bad jokes, and pick at my fingernails.
They're weird because they like to fuck kids and underage teens (a surprisingly large portion, anyway), make decisions that hurt the people they want giving them money and support, and want to pick which immigrants are the "bad" ones.
Oh, they are dangerous alright because they consider themselves righteous and having God and "Tradition" on their side. People who consider themselves righteous have no doubts that everything the do ,regardless how vicious, is meant to be by God. So all logic goes out the window. I think not all are like that, but they are a huge useful pool of people who can be used and manipulated with ease. Just like a cult, none of the decisions their leaders make are questioned.
Boris really mastered that technique. That hair of his.
All of the creepy weirdos in the donnie cinematic universe are just so vile and disgusting and so ripe for mockery. Let's see: Bannon, Stone, Gorka, Miller... (and many more I'm forgetting right now) all of them are freaks that no normal person would want to associate with. All of them have designs on America and Americans that are just creepy.
Yep. Watching the Republican cult of personality be exposed this way has given me genuine hope for the future.
It's been ten years since that freak started remaking the Republican party in his own image. Ten years since his face and voice started dominating the news cycle for no good reason (and lots of bad ones). Ten years of his clown show.
But now, at long last, I have hope that it will finally end. That the name "Donald Trump" will fade from our political vocabulary, and be spoken in shame and disgust when spoken at all.
That the name “Donald Trump” will fade from our political vocabulary, and be spoken in shame and disgust when spoken at all.
Don't forget the part where all the Republicans pretend they never really supported him in the first place.
This.
Never let anyone who identifies as or admits to voting republican get away with this. Always remind them they had a convicted criminal rapist pussy grabber who stole from from a kids cancer charity running the show. Not just a candidate, he ran the whole clown show.
Doesn't matter if it's an uncle, dad, mom, grandpa or grandma; always be relentless with this message and have no room for sympathy or forgiveness. Be the bigger person? Time to 'heal'? No, no, no. These people wanted to destroy America and you have to throw that into their face relentlessly.
Sure, have a family dinner or some party with family and friends but the moment politics comes up, you hammer this message home and tell them the discussion on politics is over because they have been proven not to be trusted at all when politics is involved. Uncle Bob want to talk fishing lures? Sure, no problem. Uncle Bob wants to talk politics in any way, shape or form? Be very, very fucking brutal in cutting the traitors of and shut them down. They have lost any and all admission to discuss (or, in my opinion, be part of) politics.
Yep. I look forward to that day, but we need to remind them of the truth when they try to pull that.
Just like the origins of the "tea party", just like how they called themselves "teabaggers" (no matter how much they insist now that it never happened), just like they swooned over both W and Romney, but pretended they "didn't know her" when W's war on Iraq was obvious to even the lowest of low-info that it was a clusterfuck, and when Romney lost to the Blah guy.
Yep. Gonna be big “I was part of the civilian resistance” post-WW2 vibes in the aftermath of all this.
I’m prepared to remind every smug boomer I know until the day they die, and I relish in the opportunity.
The Republican Party eagerly embraced him. They wanted this.
This needs to be repeated over and over. Remind everyone when Trump is gone. He isn't the threat people, he is a threat.
The seeds of his "movement" were planted by 4chan and other terminally online far right trolls long before he ever took the reins. It's been brewing since the mid-to-late-2000s but was mostly contained to their own corners of the net. Until one day it wasn't. Some people recognized it as just controversial bigoted/racist humor (such as the "Hitler did nothing wrong"-flavored Mountain Dew), others took it seriously and turned it into a lifestyle, and gave birth to the alt right.
It's the political manifestation of every troll board you've ever heard of, 4chan, 8chan, somethingawful, etc. I'm a 'chan veteran myself, I saw it all start.
When reactionaries tell you to stop something it's because it is effective.
If they cry and foam at the mouth you should go even harder.
They're a minority of weirdos and should be reminded of such at every opportunity.
I might even go as far as calling them dumb.
Republicans are so old... and just soo weird.
And trump doesn't laugh or have a dog?
There's a lot of other very bad things going on, but they are also just... They're just so fucking weird?
I like to also add "gross" to Trump and Vance's descriptions. Really helps to complete the picture in my mind.
Eh, adds to it but there are so many words you are missing for completion here.
They both have a real “would you fuck me? I’d fuck me” vibe.
"Gross" seems a lot more fitting than "weird". But what do I know? I'm not a political strategist.
Does he have a cat? If you have the resources to have people take care of all the minor annoyances of having a loving furry friend (dog or cat) that you can call your own and still simply choose not to - you are fucking weird.
Trump eats his steak well done with ketchup.
That sounds like the most un-american thing i've heard all day. Very weird.
I cracked up during the Jan 6th hearings when his aide said she came into a room and saw a broken plate and ketchup splattered on the wall.
The helmet kissing thing at the RNC was insane and hilarious too. Weird dude
Well he lost my vote
Yes, but doesn't he look tired?
ok, i'm eating crow now, for criticizing the "he's weird" strategy. #happyiwaswrong
they really are mentally 5 years old
“When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I’m basically the same. The temperament is not that different.” -Donald Trump https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/04/opinions/president-trump-six-year-old-with-nuclear-weapons-dantonio/index.html
It makes sense. You can't reason with it, you can't use descriptive accurate language because they might not understand, or fail to understand why it applies to them.
Weird - to them - means "non-conforming" and that is a terrible, terrible thing for a conservative.
More than just non-conforming generally too. They super quickly embraced that non-conformist image when it came to the masks.
But it feels like just calling them weird triggers a primal fear within them that they're not really part of the "in-group" after all. It works where other insults don't because they can't easily write it off as their enemies simply being jealous of how cool they are basically.
I think it is really, really effective when women are calling Republican men creepy weirdos. I don't know if it would work to have Biden call the likes of MTG and Bobo creepy weirdos (even though it's obviously true), though.
Some folks don't grow up they just get bigger
At this point can we consider that MAGA is the "new" and Americanized version of the Nazi party, and that Trump is trying to become a somehow worse version of Hitler?
Sure, there's no rhetoric about the Arian race in the public literature, but the ideals and concepts are pretty similar. Instead of considering anyone who is non-white, non-blonde, non-blue eyed, to be less than, it's instead about "God loving Christians" and basically the concept of, if you're not with us then you are not an American.
Transpose some conceptual groups for fairly equal in size/scope groups, and it's essentially the same playbook.
Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. C'mon America... You were a big factor in defeating the Nazis.... DON'T BECOME THEM
no rhetoric about the Arian race
Pretty much a direct parallel
Sure, there's no rhetoric about the Arian race in the public literature
Maybe not overtly, but there are TONS of *wink wink, nudge nudge* rhetoric about the Aryan race, they just couch it in dog whistles and have for decades. Here's the famous Atwater quote from 84 where he admits it:
You start out in 1954 by saying, “N****, N****, N****.” By 1968 you can’t say “N****”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N****, N****.”
I would agree that it's a lot of nudge, nudge, wink, wink, underlying white supremacist ideology.
I don't even think it's a secret. They just refuse to say it overtly because of the social impact of it. A portion of people who voted, and will vote for Trump, might have a problem with them being very obviously racist/Nazis.
I don't think that's a majority, but those that now or less stay out of politics, and are just habitual Republican voters (maybe they're subscribed to the party or something? A "card carrying Republican" type thing), would see the overt racist/Nazi themes and reconsider their position instead of blindly doing what they've always done.
Instead it's about making things "great", an overly broad and obtuse term to use as a focus of your political goals. With vague and ultimately meaningless talk about what that means, without any actual hard statements.
They're avoiding any commitments to do a specific thing or achieve a specific goal, and it's all a smokescreen. Anyone paying attention knows that you can't have your cake and eat it too, which is essentially what they've promised at every turn. The horrible fuckery of the medicare system comes to mind. They were going to make it "great" and affordable..... How? Nobody knows. They didn't even know. What did they deliver? Not that. It's not great. Affordable? That is debatable. It's not just Medicare. It's everything.
They only other time I've seen this phenomenon is at work. Sales people will sometimes promise clients that a product will do everything for them. Well beyond the abilities of that product. I'm not in sales. I'm a technical support/implementation person. I have to give the end user/client the bucket of cold water to say, no, it doesn't do that, and it's not able to do that. When I approach management about it, the response is inevitably "make it work", aka, find a solution, and don't bother me about it. I tend to quit jobs that put me in that kind of a position, so it's rare that I end up in it.
What Trump, and a lot of what I've heard from his party lately, does is entirely the same. He's acting like a shady sales person, telling you everything that he thinks that you want to hear, then foisting the task of actually accomplishing any of his wild statements onto implementation people who basically tell him that his promises and statements about what we can do, or will do, cannot be achieved. They're told to "make it work" and they do their best, but it ends up making things fucking suck. I don't blame anyone except the sales person telling me that they can do something that I later find out, cannot be done.
My main problem is that, this isn't just his own business that's going to suffer and fail as a result of his insane ramblings. We're talking about the country of the United States of America which will suffer immense damage if he is allowed to continue this circus.
I don't believe anything he says.
I generally don't believe politicians. I also don't believe most sales people. As for a politician with the approximate credibility (or lack thereof), of a sales person? You do the math.
The argument I have heard from the Republican voters is some derivative of “we need to bring this country together and be united!” After a few questions is always under their ideology.
They want everyone to change to worship their fascist, racist, and regressive ideology rather than pull their heads out of the sand and realize everything they stand for is absolute trash.
Most of them don’t understand why we don’t worship Trump like they do. It’s so confusing to them that we don’t worship Biden or Harris like they worship Trump. To be a Republican is to lack all empathy.
“we need to bring this country together and be united!”
EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FÜHRER!
I think he tries to be Americanized version of Putin. And Putin tries to be Russian version of Hitler
Look, I'm sorry I didn't vote in 2016 but I've voted every time since then and started paying attention to local politics. Now I have a protected bike lane next to my neighborhood and the roads aren't full of holes
Good job. That's all we should ask of you. You made a mistake, learned from it, and vow not to do it again. As long as you uphold that, you'll be an outstanding citizen, and that's all we should ask for.
I like protected bike lanes and roads without holes in them too!
So my buddy and I were bored in the car yesterday and I made up a game called “let’s bet how many minutes it will take me to scan through AM radio and hear that the immigrants are invading.” I was really sad when I won in, I shit you not, less than 3 minutes. But before he got to that when I first tuned in he was going on a whole rant about being butthurt that the orange one was being called a weirdo. It really upset the guy which was just absolutely hilarious. Oh and he managed to slip a transphobic pronoun joke in the middle of the rant. Remember all of this happened within less than 3 minutes of me starting at the bottom of the AM dial.
I love in the south and the radio is a fucked up place. It's mostly all Christian or Republican talk radio. They tell people how they should think. like some random dude on the radio has all the answers.
My experience driving thru Indiana has been about the same. And that was some 10 years ago
I'm weird as shit. My life is a freak show and a fail whale working together to make a fail-ipolis.
And I'm fucking goofy.
Though I'm not trying to lead a nation with it. So I take no offense with this.
Being ok with being weird is not a common trait among conservatives.
Hah. The squares are the weird ones now.
fail whale
I wonder what the fail whale would think of Elon
I feel that my guy
still don't understand what's wrong with being weird. republicans just hate it because their bigoted mind associate it with being different and they hate that.
The message isn't for democrats. You insult people based on what they find insulting.
yeah that's what i meant; they're the ones turning it into a negative attack. the dems are just planting the seeds.
I think the term "creepy" would also be effective.
For sure, and it is absolutely true.
I just like "weird" because it only works one way. For people who value individuality and diversity, it doesn't necessarily have a negative connotation. For people who value conformity, it's a devastating insult. Apparently Ben Shapiro went on Megyn Kelly's show to cry about it, which is great.
Yes. Honestly, what's wrong with being weird? maga weird == creepy
This makes a lot more sense than weird. Old and weird is something one could put on a T-shirt or on a lemmy nbio and enjoy displaying it. It's basically a Weird Al Yankovic T-shirt.
And the meaning of brat really hasn't changed except in some limited social circles, just like the close association between coconuts, monkeys, and primitive tribal connotations. It's as if someone was leading the Democratic marketing campaign by selling it within the bubble but in such a way that it is ultimately ineffective and easily twisted, and it's giving me serious 2016 vibes. I really hope I'm wrong and just out of touch.
The only problem I have is I'm weird and I think weird is cool, I like weird people and I love towns that have a motto that is like keep Portland weird. I celebrate weird, but I guess it's time to normalize the weird I've been supporting and ostracize the truly weird
Weird is a loaded phrase. It was a gamble to see if it can track but in this way, against Trump, its working. I agree it was always my preference to be weird then be cool when I was young but this isn't that kind of weird.
To someone who is conformist being "weird" is the worst thing. If you aren't being weird is a badge of honor and people wear it proudly. This is why it works so well right now.
You are overthinking this and make it about you. This is meant to get under their skin because they are weird and cannot handle the phrase.
We expect you to not be so easily irked and intelligent enough to realize wat the spiel is here...
I don't know if Republicans hate it as much as we just love it.
They absolutely baller move right now would be to STOP saying it.
Let it sit there and don't say it again. Move on to something else for a bit.
Let them get all frothed about it but never refer to it again.
Otherwise they're going to regroup and have a response.. stopping now means they waste their energy
Glad it is working.
Y'all know the story of Hitler coming into power? Right?
Trump is not a normal opponent who one should (or can) engage in a high-minded debate about tariffs and industrial policy. He’s a clown: scary, but often sad and ultimately a joke.
This is exactly what most German people thought about Hitler, and why they thought he could never come to power. Fascism is weird, but also weirdly appealing to a very determined and violent subset of people, and they'll do what it takes to coerce others to go along. You're right we shouldn't be too confident that sanity will naturally win.
This is exactly what most German people thought about Hitler, and why they thought he could never come to power.
I mean, I bring up Hitler, but this is also exactly what people thought about Trump first time around too.
Fascism is weird, but also weirdly appealing to a very determined and violent subset of people
Some people crave a King. They want to be ruled. That's the structure that makes sense to their brain.
should be worth noting that the only people who said "weird" was a pejorative were republicans, though.
Yeah, that's why "no you" doesn't work here. I know I'm a weirdo. I like being a weirdo and hanging out with other weirdos. You call me a weirdo and I'm like, "Yeah, cool."
But group identity is everything to a conservative. Conservatism, as it has been said, depends on an in-group and an out-group. "Weird" could only ever be a pejorative to the conservative who really needs to conform and not be weird. A person who accepts the diversity of humanity doesn't need everyone to be the same, so weirdness isn't really all that weird. When the in-group is weird, it's not an insult.
Im glad they finally found something that sticks but sometimes I wish Kendrick just came out one time to call Trump a certified pedophile. Id laugh so hard I'd piss myself and possibly even someone else.
"they not like us" [photo of Trump and Clinton with Epstein]
Well then maybe they should stop being such weirdos.
promising to a return to normalcy and baseline competency.
Here's the thing. Biden hails from an era of politics where one would absolutely get lit up by the media for breaking decorum.
It's been a slow decline for some time, but the Republicans along with
their propaganda outletFox News have slowly changed the country's thermostat on this over the last few decades. Much like wearing a winter parka in the summer heat, maintaining complete and total political decorum in this climate is no longer a boon, it's a handicap. We all saw Biden take one heck of a beating while taking the high road and never really taking the (rage) bait to hit back in quite the same way. But while that approach is performing on virtue, the optics are one of a punching bag in the eyes of many crucial voters.So tactics have been changed, and boy have they ever.
What I appreciate about this approach is that it's actually very light-handed, considering all that could be done. It also looks downright polite compared to how much right-wing media has run with hyperbole and even outright fabrication. Yet running on the rather casual sounding observation of "old and weird" is generating actual results. It's also refreshing to loudly point out what we were all baffled about from the get-go: "Don't they know? I mean, they're seeing the same stuff we are, right?"
I welcome this new shift to "bless your heart" politics.
I welcome this new shift to "bless your heart" politics.
This is the equivalent of pointing out grammatical errors in an otherwise logically sound argument. This is not a positive development, it is a sign that things are continuing to get worse.
It is, in fact, not at all the equivalent of that. Get your lab equipment tested.
This is also the tactic employed in major hiphop feud Kdot v. Drake
How'd it work out for the weird guy with rumors of pedophilia who is hated by the majority of people who worked with him?
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If you have any questions or comments about me, you can make a post to LW Support lemmy community.Yeah, trying to overthrow the government and create a theocratic dictatorship, run by a probable amoral atheist felon who is functionally illiterate is pretty weird. Life in general has just been weird for the past 10 years now, but I feel like a large part of it is caused by Republicans in general enabling weird shit to happen.
Not sure it's all that new - I've heard bluegal on The Professional Left call many, many, many Republicans creepy weirdos for years and years.
Because they are very, very weird and quite creepy when you actually learn what they want to do to America and to Americans.
Great! Now do all of the GOP congress and senate.
I've always prided myself on being weird....how can 'weird' be such an insult? I'm going to have to test this out on a couple conservatives before I believe this.
There's "wear an animal costume to the nightclub" weird and there's "have 23 kids, homeschooled all of them, and cover up the oldest son's molestation accusations all while being the most self righteous bigots in Arkansas" weird. Now, Trump doesn't have nearly that many kids, but he's definitely closer to the latter than the former.
You said it at the end there. Conservative means status quo. Which is not weird.
That's the dictionary definition perhaps, but not what they're pushing for. Conservatives talk about small government etc, but really it's about rewarding the ingroups and punishing the outgroups.
They want to revert reproductive rights, with the government tracking periods and investigating women's bodies. That's weird af. They love the police state and mass surveillance, recording people's messages and web activities is hugely creepy. It's weird if a person snoops on you like that, and it's weird if the government does it. They care way too much about what's between your legs and which gender you sleep with, again, weird.
Edit: also just to add there is good weird and bad weird. Good weird is being yourself despite what the mainstream does, bad weird is forcing your viewpoints on others
These folks are against the status quo. Roe v. Wade was the status quo. Having a peaceful transfer of power after you've lost an election is the status quo.
Republicans hate this one weird trick.
I hate this messaging because I’m proudly weird. It’s a rhetorical step towards ostracizing and othering those who are different. I think this is a really bad move that can and will backfire, especially when the opponent is fascism.
Weird is just anything you aren’t used to. Kamala is “weird” to trump supporters who aren’t used to seeing women or POCs in positions of power. Compared to every president before her, she stands out as a lot weirder than Trump.
“You’re weird!” Is a really bad strategy. Queer and weird were once synonyms, and mostly still are. Don’t disenfranchise your base.
There are subtleties of language that depend on context. I think most people understand that this line of attack refers to malignant weirdness as opposed to quirky or outside-the-mainstream weirdness.
For example, the GOP’s obsession with micromanaging women’s bodies is fucking weird. From context, you can probably see that I mean it is sinister, strange, and gross.
You're weird. I'm weird. We both know that weird is where it's at, and the worst thing either of us could aspire to be is "normal".
This strategy is about rattling folks whose identity is still external rather than internal. Introspection surrounding the idea of "weirdness" is the goal.
The expectation to conform to a set of principles foisted upon you by superiors is the idea that we're fighting against. The people who support that way of thinking want wealth consolidation, conformity, and all others in cages. Weird is a dang battle cry in the face of something so oppressively ordinary.
I think it's part of a larger reframing of the conversation. You're right, it used to be that queer and weird were synonymous, but why should it be?
Queer should be normal. Trans should be normal. Black and Brown and Asian and Native should all be normal. Fucked up right wing ideologies should not be normal.
And the only way we get there is by acting like we already are. You reframe the narrative. You move "normal" to where it should be instead of where it is. You bring all the people who used to be the "weirdos" and outsiders into the tent, and you leave the bigoted xenophobes standing outside in the rain.
Queer is the new normal. Bigot is the new weird. That's a world I'm down for living in.
This I can almost get behind, except that “weird” has a lot of queer and diverse and non-white connotations/baggage that can’t be ignored.
A white-on-the-inside coconut may not see it immediately if she was raised in a California context. That word didn’t just fall out of a tree, and it exists within the context of all the uses that came before hers.
Sure, we can reframe what behavior is acceptable vs not, but “weird” does not mean and has never meant “unacceptable”. Weird Al is generally considered to be acceptable. “That’s weird” is usually quoted as the fundamental driving statement of advances in science. Rejecting weirdness is fundamentally antithetical to progress, and carries with it baggage of rejecting solid portions of the democratic party’s base.
Sorry but linking it to "queer" is just completely ridiculous. Nobody is calling them queer and nobody is hearing them being called weird as being called queer.
I somewhat agree with you, which is why I refer to them as old convicted felon and couch fucker. It doesn't have a great ring to it but seems accurate
"We should choose the moral high ground against people who would exploit us taking the moral high ground. 🤡
It’s not about taking the moral high ground against them, it’s about not disenfranchising and alienating large portions of her base so she can win, and it’s about not using an attack that frankly is more applicable to her candidacy than to his.
She’s the weird one! That’s why I’m voting for her! Trump is just more of the dark side of America that has always been present. Nothing weird about him. Plenty weird and unique and novel and different about Kamala. I’m voting for the weird candidate.
Being weird is not an insult to us, we wear that hat with pride. But our weird behavior falls on one side of the "normalcy range", the quirky, the funny, the confidently different, the queer side.
There is another side of "weird", the side of creepy weird, the side of child predators, the side of tikki-torch nazis, the side of whatever the couch fuck is wrong with J.D. Vance. And they don't wear that hat with pride, they wish they were normal or think of themselves as normal.
To the ones who hate us, who can't stand our confident weirdness, and to the ones who are on the wrong side of weirdness, it's an insult. That's why we can be proudly weird, while they start foaming at the mouth at the mere implication that they might not be "normal". That's why this attack lands, they are the anti-queer, the anti-weird and pointing out that Trump behaves outside the accepted range of "normal" behavior (just in the opposite direction of our weird) is an effective attack.
I'm feeling the same way. Using "weird" to attack anyone is just shallow and mean, and isn't going to resonate well with people that grew up being dismissed as weird. It's a bullying tactic that politicians should be above.
*It's also worth commenting on how this serves to legitimize their own bully tactics. If just saying someone is weird matters now, so does all of the right's attacks on names, looks, disabilities, etc. Emboldening those tactics is a mistake.
Positively tame. Some people like weirdos yknow
Not those kind
Fox & Friends host Brian Killamead is trying to spin it as, "aren't we all a little weird? What's normal anyway?"
don't be orange
don't not be not orange
"aren't we all a little weird? What's normal anyway?"
Weird tack for people who are against (checks notes) anybody who isn't white, straight, and Christian.
Yeah thats why i say hes not weird just mean and nasty
This just comes off as circle jerking. I doubt any Republicans really care what Trump is called.
But they do care what they are called. And when you support a weird, corrupt, philandering pedophile, people will rightfully point it out.
After eight to ten years it's calling him weird that gets under their skin? Lol, I love your optimism.
Democrats gonna be the party of traditional values i guess.
Yes. The US has always had a disconnect between what they say they believe and what they actually do. So, it's up to progressives to align what the government does to what it professes to believe.
Supporting trans kids and making abortions legal, safe, and accessible both fall in line with "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". The Founders never said anything against abortion or trans kids. You can't even find anything in the Bible about that! Conservatives just took their bigoted ideas and slapped a "traditional values" label on them.
If you say so. Weird Al Yankovic is a fan favorite of many old people. I can perfectly see people wearing “Old and weird” purposely. There’s no shortage of old people wearing edgy T-shirts, specially in the Trump crowd.
I'm no psychologist, but the irony of praising being called "brat" while touting calling the opposition "weird" makes me feel like I'm back in preschool. These lowered bars, man ... definitely on our way to surpassing Idiocracy.
I don’t know who thinks “weird” is some kind of effective attack. IMO just happens to coincide with the wave of feel-good associated with Biden stepping aside and Harris stepping up. Personally I find it pretty lame. stick with dishing back what the republicans threw at Biden - trump is old, he can’t form coherent sentences, question his health, and show everyone he wants a hereditary dictatorship that subjugates women and fellates the ultra wealthy so the US can be just another shitty kleptocracy.
Serious question. Why do we need "attacks" at the ready? We don't need to stoop to their level
Edit: I'm not trying to be a centrist with this. I just think it (somewhat) encourages more internal strife and I'm a little afraid a civil war (or maybe something less dramatic) is coming. I can tell you I've never had my mind changed by somebody who treated me poorly. I still respect everybody's opinion who disagrees with me, though!
Did you read the article? It explains this.
By taking a buffoon seriously, you help legitimize their buffoonery. Eventually, somebody has to say "Look, this is ridiculous! The emperor wears no clothes!"
We don't need to stoop to their level
It depends. When Republicans steal elections, Democrats shouldn't stoop to stealing elections, too.
When somebody's slinging mud at you, though, it's appropriate to sling mud back. You can't just stand there and say "My, what an astonishing lack of decorum!" as the mud slides off your face and onto your shirt. That was Biden's way, and it wasn't working. It made him look like a wimp.
It's messaging. The GOP has been so much better than the Dems at messaging. "Build the wall" , "lock her up", etc is all easy to understand and convey.
I honestly couldn't tell you what Biden's was?
It's about time the Dems started hitting back with stuff like "old and strange". Taking the high road where it matters but getting in your hits when you can is exactly what the Dems need to be doing.
Because Trump could win
