I’ll just leave this here… :’-)
Well if you care so much how come you're not doing anything about it?? We all know what happens when America cares about someone else's elections...
Yeah no. Your choice has global impact. Sadly enough.
I mean, I follow the presidental race somewhat because it has global impact, but watching the debates is not worth my time, and I'm fairly certain it's not worth anyone's time, especially non-americans.
It's 50% a desire to stay informed and 50% sports entertainment
I came here to skip the debate and catch up with the jokes. But seems like the joke is the debate itself
I will keep repeating this, Biden will be the reason Trump gets reelected. If he loves his country he needs to leave right fucking now. Democrats like him and Clinton are addicted to power. Bernie Sanders could have beaten Trump in both election but the democrats circles of power made sure to get the candidate they wanted. Old fool.
Sanders wouldn't stand a chance. Too many moderate Democrats would be terrified of the scary socialist madman.
"The scary socialist madman" accompanied by the Democratic Party apparatus? A presidential candidate Sanders along with a moderate liberal VP would have gotten both the traditional Democratic vote (as long as the party collaborated with him, rather than giving him the Corbyn treatment, which I don't trust liberals not to do) and a considerable chunk of the electorate who doesn't feel represented by either party. The day you guys understand that you don't have to fight the Republicans in traditional terms, but rather, to change the coordinates of the fight, you'll force Republicans to choose between evolving or getting buried. But the real problem by this point is whether it is too late.
Maybe you’re right but too many of us think the opposite. I would much rather a younger more progressive candidate but Joe Biden has a track record of beating Trump. Biden has done a lot of good things in his first term that I’d want to continue. Even where he hasn’t gone nearly far enough or balanced bad with good, it may be necessary to appeal to the undecideds in the middle. Biden is the only one who can overcome the Trump personality cult
If a big complaint is age, how is that a plus for Sanders? I’m sorry but he missed his chance and now is solidly in “too old for this shit” territory
A track record of beating trump?
Something about the statistical validity of a sample size of one.
At this point, I'm convinced the Democrats are purposely throwing the election.
It's the usual catch - the leader of the losing side doesn't get the post, but keeps power of his faction.
While if that leader is no longer a leader, their personal power would be less even if the faction wins.
Western Roman Empire had a similar story with Stilicho's conviction and execution. The empire loses, but those who ate him get some power.
How about we pick someone who vaguely approaches the average age of an American adult. There's a ton - Buttigieg, AOC, I dunno even Kamala would be a million times better. Literally anybody under the age of 70. Why is that so hard to do?
You keep repeating it because a false dichotomy, that you must choose between a D or R, prevents you from accepting that the lesser evil is, in fact, evil. So, you're stuck on stupid and not asking questions. This should help:
The Democrats already, quite predictably, ignored the outcome of their primary to nominate Clinton. They're not going to do a fucking thing that doesn't make a corporate donor money. All of Sanders proposals took from corporations to provide for humans. He never stood a chance of being nominated as a Democrat and he damned well knew it. If we give him the benefit of the doubt then his goal was education. If not, he rallied for Democrats to avoid the rise of a Labor Party during a critical time in history.
Bernie ain't winning shit at a national level
Its ... horrible how you treat your elderly in closed wards.
I shall avert my gaze.
Didn't mean to pry, it was just too loud to not notice it.I'd rather look at our ... increasingly hard-right EU politics ... wait, that can't be right, wtf.
We used to say that conservative politics in the EU would still be considered left in the USA. Well, I‘m not so sure about that anymore.
Biden’s immigration policy is honestly a wet dream for most right extremists in Europe
I mean, in previous years we did pass some environmental laws (like banning internal combustion cars), not as much or as strict as I hoped, but change was there. Sure hope that doesn't all get undone 'to boost the economy' (in the USA sense - so help the existing big corps to boost their profits & do nothing for the majority).
Hell, I rally like the vast majority of EU regulations (various directives and delegated acts) that were passed & are being constantly updated (to keep up with the times/trends & tech) over the last 20 years, I think its a rally good balance between protecting the people whilst at the same time working with the market to actually achieve a meaningful & painless change over several years. That's why we have representatives. The added "bureaucracy" as companies call it is just extra reporting & testing (to confirm compliance with standards). This benefits us all & is of unbelievably marginal cost when you look at the economy, regardless of what lobbyists say.
The US far right actually made a project of helping the far right in Europe.
Well I suppose the answer I'd give is that because of how right-wing the US is compared to much of the Western world, it becomes a patient zero for whatever the far-right is cooking up - which inevitably influences far-right groups in other Western countries
Word.
Putin planted his seed with Trump in his greatest enemy (democracy/America). It quickly caught on & has spread globally.
Hundreds of Billions of dollars in US defense hasn't done a thing to halt the attacks on democracy Putin has wraught with a few million spent on his troll army.
The man can't carry out a physical attack for shit, but his cyber attacks have no equal, only willing collaborators (Murdoch et al, the maga army).
America sneezes, the world catches a drone strike or something
I follow closely what is happening in the US from France because even though we have a very different culture I still think US politics is a preview of what's to come here.
Right now I consider we are at the step where our media are crumbling and becoming unable to properly inform us. A step that has been reached a couple of years ago in the US in my opinion.
The next step will probably be our own coup attempt in a few years and a steady increase in the division of the country and far right movements.
I mean Brexit predated the Trump election by 5 months
As a French tho, do watch the debate between Gabriel Attal, Merdella and Manuel Bombard. See how Bompard (the left wing candidate) politely wipes the floor with both shitbags.
Is it the official French stance to omit the Oxford comma?
That's the topic of the next debate.
Correct, no comma before the last element if it is preceded by a conjunction (e.g. "et", that is "and" in English) in French
Yes,
WE 👏STAN👏BOM-👏PARD👏
The thing that's pissing me off though is that the centrist party decided it would rather demonize the left than the alt right, I suppose they know they already lost and are trying to get as many votes off of those they know might vote for them (some socialists).
Centerists will always attack the left rather than the right. They are actually right wingers that don't want the social stigma that goes with admitting that you're right wing. Once the progressives have been killed off by the right wing, the liberals will take the mask off.
The lot of them are cowards and the left is a whole lot less scary than the right, since we don't go on random killing sprees frequently.
Yeah, I think going toe to toe with the far right once again was always Macron's plan. This is the foe he's familiar with, against whom he won before. The short deadline for the anticipated election was probably to keep the left from organizing, as to not disturb their duel. But it backfired when the left immediately formed the Front Populaire. Now he's nervous. The polls give his party third place, so he's playing for second. He thinks if it's the centrist against the far right, the "barrage vote" will save him once more.
What's shocking is the extent to which they go to demean the left, and the amount of media that help spread his baseless accusation. Everyone knows at this point that the center will lose, so they're choosing who they'll lose too. They maybe think it'll erase the left and let Macron's clan be seen as the alternative to fascism during the next presidential elections...
The vibes I get from the French left in social media remind me of the days when Podemos (in Spain) was soaring. It gives me a bit of hope. Good luck.
Unfortunately, when America farts we're all forced to smell it. America wants Europeans to stay out of American business, buts that's rather difficult to do when that country demands to be the center of attention.
America wants Europeans to stay out of American business
I don't. Please send help!
And all that hot air rises to Canada.
Unfortunatly it seems america just shat it's pant.
I've been begging for europeans to export unions and labor rights to America for years, we meed help
As a french person we have bigger fishes to fry lmao 😂 (I might live in a fascist state soon™)
As an American, I feel ya.
Well, France is known for their national holiday: revolution
Time to start a new Republic. 5th is the charm number. I guess.
yeah but your family seems to make your problems our problems so we wanna know just how fucked we are.
Yeah it's like listening to your mobster neighbours fighting. It's their business but anyone can catch a stray.
The answer is always "Very."
In german media there is so much content about america even I sometimes get confused whoch country I actually live in.
At least you can tell where something happens by place names, I get headlines '12 shot in Manchester gun fight' or 'Birmingham man kills 8 in roadrage incident' and there's just no way of telling it's America... OK, well those examples are obvious but the point stands.
They are conveniently placing flags everywhere, to help your memory.
It's not that us outsiders like to watch your elections closely. But we need to since they're gonna have a big impact on the world we live in, whether we like to admit it or not.
Americans, humble? We could never
If you can figure out a way to cut America down to size, please fucking do, it's not healthy letting us be Too Big To Fail
There's no need for that, unless parts of the US want independence, like some Scots regarding the UK. But break it all up because it's too messy, not healthy? That's what critics of the EU or the UN also say. Myself I've always been an advocate of unity and collaboration since it's the only way we're gonna be able to solve climate change and every other major world crisis.
We're so fucked it's absolutely insane.
I thought Trump had a chance before, but now... My god Biden embarrassed the shit out of himself... Fuck the goddamn DNC for condemning us by REFUSING to have primaries... Yeah it's the tradition because usually the incumbent has a chance, but 90472828 year old Biden? Ffs...
Yes Trump is old too but it was plain as day how much more lucid trump is than biden...
This might be a hot take but any leadership selection where candidates are ranked in terms of how lucid they are is a bad time for all involved.
Being lucid is supposed to be a minimum requirement to even apply. But here we are.
Yeah, I mean we're like lobsters being slow boiled.
This whole situation is mad, but it feels plausible because it's been ratcheted up so gradually.
Can you imagine the country's reaction if they say this 2 decades ago?
Does it really count as "lucid" if you enunciate your lies, fabrications, misrecollections about... everything?
No. He was not lucid, just loud.
Loud and lying every second word != lucid.
It was a goddamn travesty that there was no fact checking by the
button pushersmoderators.Everything was allowed to stand as fact. It was disgusting :(
I see so many people screaming that primaries should have been held, especially today.
Biden would have easily won the primaries.
The only reason I agree with this is that I was still living in the Midwest during the 2016 primary. I moved to California during August of that year. Time after time, I got told by Midwestern democrats that Bernie just wasn't electable / was too progressive. The coasts would have primaried Biden, but flyover country would have messed it up.
Yes Trump is old too but it was plain as day how much more lucid trump is than biden...
And also an unrepentant crook and liar. Who also dreams of being a dictator and getting revenge on his "enemies".
I would love not knowing about any debate but lemmy is like: Nope you'll read American "news" if you want to or not.
So next time keep your national humiliation fetish private please
Indeed. I created a Lemmy account the moment I saw an opportunity to block US-specific communities. But alas, US content makes it onto other, more general communities as well (like politics on the memes community)
Some cunt could post a meme about a samurai in Cote/ d'Ivoire eating a durian fruit and some yank would still say "Ya that's such a democrat thing to do brah"
Don't look at American centric communities then. You're the curator of your experience, not everyone else.
I mean I wasn't really serious as we are in a shit post community right now.
But do you realize how fucking hard it is to keep US politics out of your experience here? So many seemingly unrelated communities post election bullshit it's not even funny :/
I do think that the next presidential US election is important not only for Americans but the world. Although it really is tiring to watch from over here and I can only imagine how tired most Americans must be...
Will this ever not be appropriate?
yeah but that kiddie pool is being rented out for 1500/mo
Yeah and you're getting renovicted so they can split all the bedrooms up and double the occupancy (and rent)
I dont know, I dont think Canada has much room to throw bricks in glass houses at the moment.
We wish... the good/bad neighbour analogy is very apt here; whatever happens in the USA spills over here all the time.
We are about to enter our own Trump shit show when PP is elected next year.
The worst part about the politics here in Canada is that the Liberals always spend years setting up the layup that the Conservatives use to dunk on Canadians. This round is going to feature a whole host of anti-competitive business, bad trade deals, media favouritism, privatization, waves of attacks on worker's rights... all this and more thanks to the moves set up by the Liberals doing things like refusing to stop the Rogers/Shaw purchase, the failure to make deals with other countries, setting up media and "CanCon" subsidies that favour big media companies, and the intentional attacks on the efficiency and effectiveness of public services.
We are so fucked.
Are the mooses swimming in the pool a good thing or a bad thing? Or maybe just a weird thing?
I don't know how to pluralize moose
If goose are geese, moose must be meese.
Serious answer: the plural of "moose" is "moose," not "mooses."
Too late, I watched it all. It would have been funny if it hadn't been so sad.
It was just…. ugh. 😞
It shouldn't come as a surprise.
How is this fascist right wing shit show not a global debacle? Putin, Netenyahu, Bolsanaro, Trump, Modi... Italy & Germany both rolling right. North Korea (of course) jumping on the Russian bandwagon and Xinny the Pooh.
Does Britain's finally dumping the Tories (after a decade & a half+) make them one of the few to break left at this time on the global stage? {Something about broken clocks being right from time to time.}
No I wouldn't think that about the UK. Tories shifted massively rightwards over the past decade and they are really losing most voters to Reform - a hard right party, so they are simply not hard-right enough for most voters, meanwhile Labour has shifted massively right to occupy the space Cameron-style neocons were in before.
The right win in the long run because if labour wins, the dynamic will be of that between Cameron-esque conservatives under Starmer Labour and hard-right conservatives under Reform/UKIP/whatever Farage party as the two major parties. This is the final form of the overton window shift, on which the UK and US led the world on in 2016.
If anything the lib Dems - if you take their manifesto at face value - are far more progressive than Labour at this point and don't adopt the "managed decline" style of governance.
This is where the UK FPTP system might actually work well, Reform could get as many as 17% of votes, ahead of Tory 15% and become the 2nd largest party, and yet end up with like one parliament seat because they dont end up with a majority in any one county this time around.
The only hope then is that Starmer is just secretly a really good guy who won't say so because the tory media would eviscerate him on culture war shit, that he survives the power struggle of a labour seat supermajority and kicks out the likes of Duffield and Streeting.
Poland and Hungary also did fairly well, if I'm not mistaken
As part of the CUSMA trade agreement, I think us Canadians and Mexicans are allotted one sigh of disappointment...
Como parte del acuerdo comercial T-MEC, creo que a los canadienses y los mexicanos se nos permite un solo suspiro de decepción...
Mexicans should absolutely be keeping an eye on American politics. Especially since half the debate was: Sir please explain how much you hate Mexicans and what you’ll do to prevent any Mexicans from entering our fair country and how you’ll remove the Mexicans problem when you’re in power.
Trump: internment camps, American Auschwitz if he can
Biden: further tighten border control and further restrict ability to obtain legal entry
This is comparable to a loud family feud carried out on the streets with yelling and throwing stuff at one another and then yelling at the shocked onlookers to move away.
We're the family that gets kicked out of the Applebee's for having a very loud and emotional fight while some other family is trying to celebrate their kid's 8th birthday
Nope, you can't stand there for generations going "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" Then get shitty when we do, we want to watch you drive that burning bus into the the ocean.
It's just a face, and doesn't usually represent the people.
Prez has little power when compared to most world leaders. Their lead is more of a cultural one.
So to say, it's really not so violently serious
I wish Prez had been real, and not just a Sandman president.
Absolutely fair play and you are statistically likely to be in a country we've wronged so I won't begrudge you the schadenfreude
No chance, I usually don't care about American politics but I'm not gonna miss the chance to watch 2 geriatric fucks attempt to debate one another.
It was so much worse than I envisioned it to be though. Like one guy seemed to make up literally everything with insane claims that were delivered with confidence only rivaled by how stupid they were and the other sounded like his brain turned to soup if he spoke for more than 5 seconds and when not speaking he looked like a frog seeing a very tasty fly on the wall.
I really hope Europe can get our collective shit together and supply Ukraine once the US shits the bed there.
one guy seemed to make up literally everything with insane claims that were delivered with confidence only rivaled by how stupid they were
that's exactly how he was when he was president from 2016-2020. he tried to nuke a hurricane and buy greenland. his own party basically lets him say whatever dogshit he likes as a distraction while they engage in graft and tax evasion
As a foreigner I sinned for I disobeyed the advices and watched it…
I couldn’t believe it was so bad… once I saw it I couldn’t believe I was watching that.
But think of all the popcorn we are able to consume watching you shitshow. This is way more entertaining than the usual movies, series, and shows that you produce!
The crazy thing is everything up to this point was so much better. They'd show biden waiving at "nobody" and then they'd zoom out and there's someone standing there. Or he'd say "president of Mexico" when he meant to say "president of Egypt". But then last night was like nonstop fail. It's the perfect nightmare scenario because now everyone can say "You shoulda seen it sooner!" but really, we couldn't.
Sounds like an excuse.
What I mean is: it sounds like his handlers kept making excuses and you kept accepting them because you wanted to believe them.
I know, I'm frustrated too. I dismissed the Alex Jones Fox News crowd because they were known liars, they'd lied to us for decades, and this really did seem like standard conservative projection to deflect from their candidates' obvious mental issues.
Hate to admit it. But the conservatives were right and we were wrong.
I don't see how what conservatives say has to do with reality.
Biden has been "senile" and "too old" for years now, during which time we've had a functioning Biden administration.
The Trump admin was limp, chronically understaffed, weak, ineffectual. That's what they're pretending is better than Biden. Conservatives don't even care about senility so if you hear them rag on Biden and think they're right, you're not understanding what they're really saying.
We've seen this before with Reagan. We took the military industrial complex to the next level. If history repeats with banks deregulated as they are now... It won't matter one fucking bit, really. It's not very important whom they choose to front their cons. No President can save us, or would want to. Our oppressor is not our savior.
No, plenty of nonpartisan and even liberal people were yelling this too. I had no illusions of Biden's age.
America is not just two internet echo chambers... even if it feels like it right now.
ZzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzz I skibdi with um COVID dealing with uh everything hmmm we had to uh deal with uh OOOooorere if we finally beat Medicare
We are so fucked if this is Joe's new demeanor. My god, the orange bafoon handled it so much better...fuck
Your family is in our neighbourhood and in this domestic dispute I'm just wondering if I need to call the police or the abundance.
I’m just wondering if I need to call the police or the ambulance
Both? One of these guys is a convicted felon turned robber baron and the other is a retirement home escapee who has lost the light in their eyes.
I say this as an American: maybe start making friends with the other countries because we are not gonna be okay whatever happens.
In America, you can’t call just one—you’ll still get police if you ask for an ambulance.
Source: am American, have tried calling for only an ambulance before.
Who's driving that ambulance?
I'd rather drink bleach than watch this shitshow.
A dum question: if both candidates are unable to function, then what happens? (Trump for his crimes, Biden for getting dementia...)
Meanwhile in Finland: the Finnish version of "build the wall":
Parliament's Administrative Committee will not resume its discussion of the Refoulement Act until after the weekend. The committee is still so far behind schedule that it could not complete its work today. The debate on the bill continued during the committee meeting, which started at 5 p.m. but ended quickly. Peltokangas says there was no drama at the meeting. yle.fi
The bill needs 5/6 parliamentary approval and politicians are already sweating over it because it touches too many international treaties + constitution. Debate is mostly: is it ready yet? is it ready yet? is it ready yet? (While the committees checking the bill are getting more uneasy by the bill's content...)
Also you got link text and url backwards.
Oops, fixed.
If it's after they're elected then it'll run down the line of succession: VP, Speaker of the House, president pro tempore of the Senate, then the cabinet.
If it's before they're elected, I'm no expert but I believe the Democratic and Republican parties are private organizations that can do whatever the fuck they want, even fail to abide by the results of their own primaries.
Checked out the Refoulement Act and it looks ugly, I wish you good luck over there with your own government
This reminded me about comment I've seen that French parlamentarism is now shipped from Finland.
Also you got link text and url backwards.
Hey Everyone! That was just a funny joke, haha parody..you know how we do! Real debate next month haha
I'm in the backyard of your family's lot, remember?
What is the over under on the return of Hilldog?
I find it almost impossible to believe they will continue running Biden, but then again I did not expect them to let him run again from the start.
She's fried toast. She's been trying to raise her profile but she doesn't poll well at all. If they went with her suddenly, it would be worse than staying with Biden. Newsom is probably the highest profile person who could feasibly replace Biden now. Unfortunately at this point parties don't tend to take extra risk so it would be a straight white man with just the right amount of gray in his hair and in their political prime.
The real problem they face, if they want to switch Biden out, is convincing the governor of California to resign to run. He has 3 years left on his term. But he's also term limited so he could go for it.
Seems all but impossible they'll switch candidates now. There's not a mechanism for it. It would have to be something like Biden having a major medical issue or dying.
I think we all just watched Biden have a major medical issue
There's not a mechanism for it.
Democrats can name anyone as candidate at the convention in August. Biden being the candidate isn’t official yet.
Those don’t seem implausible based on my watching half the debate… Biden was struggling to get anything out(and it wasn’t just stutter, he seemed to not be in the room part of the time) and trump just vomited lies and non answers constant
That is technically a mechanism. I'm wondering if Biden, Trump, or both experience some incredibly bizzare....accident...before November.
Idk if it even needs to be complicated. With Biden it could be every bit as simple as "Oh wow, look, he died in his sleep. NEXT!". He looks rough. Wouldn't take much.
I think they'd nominate Newsom over Clinton tbh.
The conspiracy theorists all say Joe is supposed to step down and Gavin Newsom somehow is added to the ticket which then will win. These conspiracy theorists also say that candidates are selected in advance by the powers that be and it’s all pagentry to deceive the gullible masses. Was this debate really an unepected plot twist, or was it planned?
This will be up there with 9/11 for worst things to happen to the country
Well, i would have gone for slavery or genocide, but downing a financial building is probably the same from a POV.
/s I'm just joking
America needs some perspective. You complain that your only choices are a doddering fool or a toxic narcissist who wants to actively destroy the nation.
Here in Canada we look at our options and think "America is so much better, I wish we had an option to vote for a doddering fool. All we have are narcissists"
No joke I wish we had a leader as good as Biden. The bar is so low that the devil is doing the limbo with it down in Hell.
No I would definitely vote for trudeau a 100 times over before Biden, and we have at least 3 choices in almost every riding. We don't have to worry about gerrymandering and voters reform while unlikely is at least a topic mainstream politicians will tall about.
Comparing ourselves too much to the states is why canada is the mess it is, it's still no contest with the states.
Trudeau over Biden?
Trudeau is importing the world's problems in the name of propping up the real estate investor class (of which he is a member) and pumping up fake GDP numbers. GDP per capita is plummeting in Canada with excess immigration.
Singh is in his pocket, a waste of a vote. I was an NDP voter all my life, I'm done.
Polliviere is an absolute idiot who will ride a wave of hatred for Trudeau into office.
Voters in Canada have no power and no representation as all votes are whipped. Your MP is a seat filler. We have no ballot initiatives or direct democracy options that America has, and reform will never come.
Biden listens to people who know what they're doing and stands out of the way... Passed legislation supporting workers and unions, energy infrastructure etc. meaning he's both more left than Singh and more business-friendly than PP
grabs popcorn
British politics are funnier anyway.
I don't get why Lord bucket head didnt get more votes
Yeah, you true. Get out the popcorn and watch USA go down either with a 3yo minded constant liar or a 80+yo laggard. And learn mandarin.
The 3yo minded liar is near enough 80 anyway.
Why are you scared of oranges?
Because of the implication
There's bloody stuff under the skin?
I'm right at the border (Windsor) and I don't want to live that close to Gilead (which will happen if Trump wins).
Yea, sorry, no. You Americans cannot be trusted with something so important.
Biden was horrible, he is old, he should retire. (Saying this as an outsider) I have not much knowledge of US politics, just saw debate because it was viral
At this point the only thing I care about are hordes of m1 abramses if putin crosses the border. I don’t have any other expectations or hopes.
Trump was somewhat ironically right about paying for it. Because if that’s the only thing that America can offer to the world then better name a price for your single trick.
Independent party exist, we need to wake up and vote for one great candidate that is not either of the two they present to US
It's best to start doing that in county and state elections first.
Unfortunately, that isn't feasible in the current system. In first past the post every vote is damage control at best.
We need ranked choice voting everywhere before people will even consider a third party.
I found your ballot box:
This way of thinking is how we end up watching this shitshow debate
Piss the fuck off you yanks
To all you inside the US: you might want to look up how assault rifles' can be modified to be automatic.
I have a feeling that if Trump wins, someone will do the nazi salute thing again, but maybe insert "hail god!" somewhere into it, and this time it'll be done by someone way more mainstream...
Ok let's get you back to bed
