Victim reports his father missing. Police instead interrogated him for 17 hours, said they killed his dog, and withheld his meds from the victim. Victim tried to commit suicide in the room.
At one point during the interrogation, the investigators even threatened to have his pet Labrador Retriever, Margosha, euthanized as a stray, and brought the dog into the room so he could say goodbye. “OK? Your dog’s now gone, forget about it,” said an investigator.
Finally, after curling up with the dog on the floor, Perez broke down and confessed. He said he had stabbed his father multiple times with a pair of scissors during an altercation in which his father hit Perez over the head with a beer bottle.
Perez’s father wasn’t dead — or even missing. Thomas Sr. was at Los Angeles International Airport waiting for a flight to see his daughter in Northern California. But police didn’t immediately tell Perez.
The tax payer pays up almost $1M and these scumbags remain employed. How predictable.
Also, just in case anyone isn't aware: rule number one if you're in the US and police ever bring you in and try to interrogate you is to shut down and demand a lawyer. Legally, the interview has to stop immediately until you have one present. If the officers don't comply, then you know they're corrupt and there's no reason to believe anything they say from that point onwards.
Unfortunately, there has been precedent for the argument that the right to remain silent is one that needs to be continuously and positively invoked.
So if they keep interrogating you and you choose to start talking, that can be interpreted as you waiving your right to remain silent.
Remaining silent is not enough, you have to articulate that you want to invoke your right to remain silent, unambiguously request a lawyer (no "I think I should have a lawyer for this"), and request a lawyer generally (no "I want a lawyer before I answer any questions about where I was").
"I am invoking my right to remain silent and I want a lawyer" is basically all you should say.
The ACLU remains an excellent resource for being aware of your rights.
My father-in-law is a defense attorney for juveniles, he always said that the best thing to say is " I understand you guys are just doing your jobs, and I really would like to cooperate, but to do so I need a lawyer present".
Otherwise they can basically classify you as a combative witness, or claim that you are interfering with an ongoing investigation.
By saying that you really want to help, it puts the imperative of wasting time on their end. If you guys need the information that bad, you should be rushing to get some representation here as fast as possible.
I watched this video a few years ago. You can tell its age, but I found it very enlighting. In it a lawyer explains why you should never talk to the police even if you’re innocent:
It's fun to mock sovcit whackos, but this is the sort of thing that gives them the idea that there are magic words they can invoke that let them wallhack through the legal system. The judicial system has spent literally hundreds of years working hand-in-glove with police and prosecutors to make it as difficult as possible for the everyday citizen to exercise the legal rights that protect you from them, and only by knowing exactly how to navigate the legal labyrinth set up between you and those rights can you actually use them.
They're also allowed to just be flat-out wrong about stuff. Like, for example, the law. You'd think as enforcers of the law they would be legally required to actually know the law, but that's a big nope.
They are not allowed to lie in court, under oath... but they will anyway. To protect their illegal searches, their planted evidence, their bullying and excessive force, or just to save another cop they don't even like! It's called "the Blue Wall" and they will kill you or send you to prison to defend their right to be above the law...
It should come from malpractice insurance police officers should be required to have.
Bad cops will weed themselves out of the system, when they can’t afford the premiums, if they continue having incident after incident where they are responsible for damages.
Good cops won’t have to worry about high premiums or negative sentiment from the public about bad cops. You’d probably see cops clamoring to wear body cams to back their stories up if they were actually held accountable for their transgressions.
The money should come from municipal funds. What's that? Can't afford parks and other basic services anymore? Too bad, maybe you should pay attention and vote.
So what you're saying is a simple law proposal of "you cannot ask questions without a lawyer present. Any interview done without legal representation is illegal and inadmissible." Would do wonders for civil rights?
But if they're corrupt and don't care about your rights, then that's more reason to fear them. They threatened to kill his dog, that's what broke him. And they probably would have.
Anyone who works for that police department should get asked about it when testifying. That kind of behaviour doesn't come out of thin air. It'll be a product of organisational culture and will be systemic.
The idea that they may continue being cops is insane. They should be locked up in a cell with no doors. I don't trust them in any position in society, much even less one where they have authority over others.
they generally aren't. Unless related information is proven, for example the location of the body.
From my understanding these types of cases are usually hit with a plea deal, which would somewhat nullify this factor of it, though it's still fucked up.
But how can it nullify a plea deal that was met because of all the "proof" they had from a tortured confession? If I knew it was fake but could stop the torture sooner I'd immediately confess and plea for less time if I'm having to serve it anyways.
They don't publish the names of the bad officers in this story or any others because of fear of retribution. But it wasnt always this way. Police unions put pressure on media to remove the names because the officers felt threatened. Imagine being a bully and then demanding protection for it? That's the police. They are cowards and should be exposed to the public as a matter of safety. It will keep the police polite.
Until the police union releases the names of the officers who did this, their community should treat the entire department like they were all collectively responsible, and act accordingly
Because all cops are bastards. The system is working as intended.
There was a case here in Sweden where the Swedish police was tipped off on a potential paedophile by an American agency that had trawled through Yahoo email and found suspected CSAM. Swedish Police essentially swatted this man, assaulted him early in the morning, while he was in his bed sleeping, took him away without telling him what was going on; he thought he was being kidnapped. Eventually when it was made clear that the materials were private photos of him and his 30 year old boyfriend getting it on, they faced no repercussions.
The reasoning behind it? The police were masked so they couldn't single out who was responsible for the assault. Of course they knew who was present, but since they didn't know the actual perps it'd be unfair to investigate properly because that'd put them all under unfair suspicion, and it obviously wouldn't be reasonable to punish all of the police present.
But it's perfectly okay to beat the shit out of someone they think is a paedophile, and honestly it's probably because he's of middle-eastern descent.
When I see this, I don't only see this man, I see every man, woman, and child who interacted with this police precinct.
How many current prisoners were put in prison by this type of psychological torture?
How many of those prisoners weren't as lucky as this man to have undeniable evidence of innocence?
How many citizens going about their day pull off the road when they spot a police car in their rear view mirror due to terrifying encounters shared by neighbors?
Fascist morons. Morons seem particularly useful to fascists, they love being the boot and they are too stupid to look up and see an even larger boot ready to crush them when they step out of line.
You wanna know how to make me a murderer? Make me believe you've killed my dog and make me say goodbye.
Its cunts like this that make me want to bring back public punishment's, let's see how fun it is yo be a psychotic prick when you gotta face actual public repercussions.
I hope some shred of humanity sparks in the person's mind who had that idea, of bringing in this poor guy's dog... Maybe on his deathbed, maybe in the middle of the night ten years from now for no reason, just the full fucking impact of realization that they're the bad guy of the story, that they're evil, that they did evil things that hurt people very badly and they cannot undo the harm they caused unfairly.
I don't think I'll hold my breath that humans are particularly inclined to self-reflect nowadays or especially as time goes, but I can dream.
Sadism. The pigs enjoyed watching him suffer. It's the simplest and most obvious explanation, and all that bullshit about smelling blood is a lie designed to cover their tracks.
In a slightly more just society, that $900,000 would have come out of the bastards' malpractice insurance, their careers would be destroyed, and they would face investigation by an independent civilian oversight committee & face harassment / abuse charges.
A society that was slightly better still would see them afraid to show their fucking faces in that town ever again.
Perez was not released until after the end of the three-day psychological observation period. He then retrieved his dog from Riverside County Animal Services, tracking her down through an implanted chip, Steering said.
As a responsible pet owner, that makes me unbelievably angry. Bad decisions would follow. I would likely go to jail for my actions and argue that I can't be held fully responsible on account of my reasonable and extreme rage.
To be honest, were I in that guy's position and they threatened to euthanize my dog and brought him to me to say goodbye, that likely would have been the ultimate end of my stint in free society right there. Zero chance I don't try to kill them with my bare hands when my sanity is already hanging by a thread. In my opinion this fully qualifies as psychological torture, and no person has any duty to suffer it quietly or otherwise.
i like the romanticism of insurance companies somehow wanting to pay out people who are being fucked over by the police.
Bro they're literally only here to make money, what makes you think an insurance company backing the fucking police of all things, is going to pay out victims lmao.
Also this is kind of a stupid take, because these people are literally paid by tax money, if they had to pay for insurance, that would just be covered with tax money, that has been taxed, so we get like a little bit of return on it. This doesn't even solve the tax payer problem fully lmao, plus now we have an entire business who's entire existence is making money, and actively employs a shit ton of private sector people, which also means now we're paying private sector employees doing a job that arguably shouldn't exist, with fucking tax money.
Tbh, I think a big part of the 2020 protests was Covid acting as a pressure cooker. All we had was time and anger. Much harder to get gatherings like that when folks are busy working. Healthcare being tied to jobs makes all my friends raising kids pretty shit for the protest scene too. Much harder to be a revolutionary when you have something to lose.
We have meaningful protests but they're crushed and counter-protested with impunity. People are so dejected and alienated and yes, indoctrinated and turned against one another that it's fucking hard to get any progress.
The cops responsible should be forced to give every penny they have to their name. Cash, property, investments, 401k, the clothes on their fucking back. Then they can go work in those prison chain gangs for 8 dollars a day picking up trash on the streets to pay off the remaining debt. Unironically.
Hey. Political campaign managers. Mandatory malpractice liability insurance for police officers in the United States would be a salient piece of legislation or executive order to advertise.
The problem with the modern police system is that there's not a giant insurance company able to derive profit when courts rule police aren't liable for their actions.
Yeah, that's a fair point. So they'd probably allow an amendment that subsidizes the insurance company with taxpayer funds and makes the total cost of coverage tax-deductible for the cops.
Peace would be ideal. But the reality is that with the manageable sized protesters that show up, they would probably order the crowd to disperse and when they don't, you're likely to be beaten, tear gased, and arrested by some militant armed thugs in riot gear despite being peaceful. It might make rounds in the news for a couple of days then everyone would forget about it before long and nothing will change as usual. All the while the ones who sit above the law (you know, the class that cops protect) are laughing away while sipping fancy wine in their gilded towers with private security, looking down at the entertaining misfortune of the poor batteries that power their money printing machine.
Soo fucked up, and not alone.
In 2006 they interrogated a man that they suspected for murder of his girlfriend while he was visibly SHOT IN THE HEAD, and denied him medical care even tho he has a victim. He died 10y later from brain damage.
Ryan Waller.
Absolutely horrifying. I'm sure this has already been said here, but it bears repeating over and over and over again: If the police bring you into an interrogation room and read you your Miranda rights IMMEDIATELY REQUEST A LAWYER. This is true even if (ESPECIALLY IF) you have done nothing wrong. Don't give them any of this "should I have a lawyer?" or "I think I might need a lawyer" bullshit... they have and will twist that; continue to question/manipulate you. You need to state it EMPHATICALLY "I will not talk without a lawyer present, I want my lawyer present." Legally, the police are allowed to lie to you, deceive you, and a limited amount of bashing you around verbally. There are no police badges that say "this is a good cop who is not trying to manipulate you" and never for a moment think you're smarter than an investigator... you might be smarter than some people at some things, but these folks whole job is to manipulate people. You need a legal expert on your side.
Yeah, they aren't going to cut you a deal or show lenience that they can't show later. Lawyer up immediately. Fuck that "we're on your side" stuff. They are not on your side as long as they see you as a potential criminal
Watch the “Pot Brothers” video clips that deal with traffic stops. Not exactly the same situation, but the rules are similar. Don’t talk to the cops. Cooperate, but stick to your rights, and shut the fuck up.
Pretty much this. Since the taxpayers are footing the bill and, from what we can tell, the officers have had absolutely no discipline placed upon them, they'll keep doing this. Because they know it works. It doesn't matter that they tried to get an innocent man to admit to actual murder, all they want is that confession - not necessarily the truth (because the truth is hard and simply threatening or beating a confession out of someone who's been arrested is much easier).
to all the people talking about malpractice insurance here.
Please stop, like seriously, what the fuck are you blabbering on about? You're arguing that we should pay a private sector company, who's entire goal is to make money, using tax dollars, to then use those tax dollars they got (but only some of them because we make profit, remember?) and then give that money to people who win cases against insurance.
This is an objectively worse solution. The current system with lawsuits against the state is much more efficient, and has this cool little thing where we don't randomly decide to give money to a fucking insurance company of all things..
you are literally suggesting we create a state funded extortion company.
Not sure who you're listening to but no one has suggested using tax dollars for the insurance. The cops have to pay for it, if they do shit and get sued, the insurance company pays out. They like their profit, so they drop the cops that lose them money. Cops can't get a job as a cop if they can't be insured.
Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it's just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can't fix bad behavior with no consequences.
I work in police professional liability claims / litigation. The general public has no fucking idea how much money is paid for shit on the daily. Only the few that hit the media cycle. It’s truly absurd and it’s in every state and every city town Burrough etc. It should make people’s blood boil way more than it does
Not sure who you’re listening to but no one has suggested using tax dollars for the insurance.
remind me again who pays the cops salary?
They like their profit, so they drop the cops that lose them money. Cops can’t get a job as a cop if they can’t be insured.
or they just don't pay out claims, because not paying out claims, and raising premiums is an even better way of making money.
Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it’s just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can’t fix bad behavior with no consequences.
i fail to see how this punishes the community any more than paying cops tax dollars, to pay insurance companies, who would then have to deal with problems, which not only adds more bureaucracy to the problem, but less efficient cash flow.
We should be creating a legal solution to this problem, rather than a private sector solution to this problem. Cop does something reprehensible? Bar them from working law enforcement for life. Pay out with tax dollars, because it's going to be more accessible, and much more efficient than traveling through an entire insurance and claims system. I don't really mind paying tax money if it means people who were wronged by previously spent tax dollarly doos. I have a problem with a dysfunctional system that does nothing to remove the dysfunction.
Putting insurance in the mix here does nothing to remove the problem, it just disincentivizes it, while making the whole system vastly more bloated and bureaucratic.
Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it’s just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can’t fix bad behavior with no consequences.
genuine question, how is this any different from forcing cops to pay for insurance, which is paid out of pocket. Why is a for profit industry, which then leads to less state money getting to the people who need it. If we actually punish cops while benefiting the offended party, this would solve the problem.
Yeah what we need is criminal incompetence laws for police, and they need to be consistently enforced. This was a serious crime the police committed and they need to be punished for it criminally
Jesus Christ. I'd like to think I'm aware enough to know the police lie and to not talk without a lawyer present if I were to be in a situation like that. But if they were to threaten to kill my dog then I'd very likely do whatever they asked.
Just don't say anything but "I'd like a lawyer" literally every time they ask you something. Nothing but that sentence, period. They are legally obligated to get you one. Kid didn't know any better. Fucking assholes.
Gentle reminder, in many places, "I'd like a lawyer" and similar statements do not actually invoke your right to have an attorney present and have been judged too confusing by the courts to count.
Sorry, your argument that you asked repeatedly for your lawyer does not mean your rights were impeded. You see, our cops are idiots, and not only is that your problem, it's also your fault
And don't use any slang. In one case, they said "I want lawyer, dawg". The police later said that they thought he wanted a lawyer dog and since such does not exist they didn't comply.
You are a fucking shitty investigator if you have to threaten to kill a man's dog to get him to talk. I'm surprised this guy still has all of his fingernails.
This exact thing was done to me, sans the "we killed your dog" bit.
The Finnish authorities see nothing wrong with having a person paint a cell in their own blood. They tried charging me with vandalism for it. They denied me my prescription medication, ffs.
Not exactly a high bar. The system itself is probably more progressive, but authority will always draw those who seek to abuse it no matter the overarching ideology if the institution.
This is what I don't get. I'm a nurse, and since I (ostensibly) have people's lives in my hand, we are checked and double-checked, have to do continual education, and literally everything we do needs to be documented and audited.
And our goal is always to prevent harm to the patient. Why do people who can legally end someone's life not have the same, or much more strict, standards (I'm asking this rhetorically, I don't really want an answer).
It seems like adapting medical licensing and reporting requirements would help get us on the right track, or at the very least help hold police accountable.
I don't understand what's the point ? Why would the police even do that ? I mean, unless they are psychopath of some kind ? Why would they lose 17hours of their time like that ?
Me too, though, while I've seen him be critical of tactics, admittedly I've never seen JCS do an entire episode about crimes committed by the police themselves.