Rabbit hole time.
Apparently, caffeine in soft drinks is synthetic. I thought they just used caffeine that is extracted from decaffeinating coffee beans - not so. Also it's barely produced in the US (anymore), and we mostly import it from China.
Neat part is: it doesn't look all that complicated to synthesize and requires some common-ish organic compounds and solvents to make. As a bonus, the "the raw synthetic caffeine often glows - a bluish phosphorence". If anyone is on his Patreon, please give NileRed a nudge to give this a shot; I think it would be right up his alley.
So we can get by without coffee, but short of running your own chemistry lab, it's going to be a bit before industry can ramp up production of the synthetic stuff. Meanwhile, caffeinated beverages across the board would be more expensive were synthetic caffeine a part of any tariff scheme.
More here:
Finally, the Step Too Far.
Maybe? We also import a shed-load of tobacco. Combined, that's not gonna be pretty.
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/raw-tobacco/reporter/usa
All this insecurity about tariffs has me hoping he have a Boston Tea Party situation. If I recall the story correctly, they threw the expensive British Tea overboard to protest the tax.
Similarly, I also recall a sugar tax, and either an ink or paper one: basically, I hope I can see something similar to see there's still a small piece of American values from our ancestors (not the twisted Conservative heaven MAGA wants, but on the American dream of freedom, liberty, and justice for ALL.)
No Taxation Without Representation!
It’s hilarious how everyone knows the Tea Party and all of the taxes, when the real reason the American revolution happened was that England wasn’t going to let us drive Native Americans out
Some folks were a little late to figuring out what tariffs were okay!
I feel like most people I have heard talking about them while supporting Trump seem to know that tariffs are taxes, but have no concept of how they play out in a real economic situation. Most fall into one or both of two camps:
A) Tariffs are taxes, but they're taxes for companies not individuals, and they're only applied to importing, so they won't affect me.
B) Tariffs are taxes for foreign companies, to level the playing field and keep American business competitive. Since the companies that have to pay it are foreign, it won't affect me.
Spoiler alert, guys: no matter where the tax is levied in the system, the consumer is the only person who ever pays for it, since they're the only ones that can't pass that cost on to anyone else.
Also, while this can make domestic competitors more competitive, it's important to remember two things: first, if it works, it's only working by making things more expensive for consumers, and second, this assumes that the domestic competitors want more business, have the ability and posture to increase their production to meet the new greater demand, and will operate in good faith. Much more likely is that they simply also increase their prices in reaction to the tariffs, so they're not producing or selling any more volume and aren't creating any jobs... they're just padding their profit margins at the corporate/shareholder level while doing nothing for their employees, all while having the average consumer foot the bill.
That's exactly what happened with the steel tariffs in the first Trump term and that's exactly what will happen now...the only difference is that this time it seems like there will be significantly fewer economic buffers between the tariff and the consumer, so more people will more directly feel the sting here...and presumably the mental gymnastics from the MAGAts will be even sadder in their attempts to somehow make it not a criticism of their orange leader's incompetence.
Tariffs are taxes, but they’re taxes for companies not individuals, and they’re only applied to importing, so they won’t affect me.
Typical Magoo (literally my dad in 2016): "you can't tax business owners, they're going to just make everything more expensive for us! They pass on the burden to us!"
Also Magoo: "Yay tarrifs! They are a tax on business but that won't get passed on to me!"
The Magoo motto: Whatever words I need to use to suit my purpose I will use, to hell with reality.
"Surely the company that sells a product for $100 will keep selling the product for that price once tariffs mean that it costs a $125 to produce and import!" - crazy people.
Wanna bet that the search trend spikes again when/if they come into affect?
Chocolate also. Lol I hope you fucking like corn syrup and candy corn you little shits.
I pictured this together in a bowl and it's making me feel a hair nauseated
The syrup helps the little corns slide down better.
Also: I can't feel my toes but I'm sure that's unrelated.
Classic American breakfast 🤌
Who are we kidding? Trump’s going to enforce it selectively to nefarious ends and enrich himself off exemptions that he’s hand picked to be subservient. Free market my ass.
100% this. I see tariffs on foreign cars coming quick.
I've been saying this. I'm curious to see who wins out. In this case it's populist bullshit vs American coffee retailers. Let's see who comes out on top.
So nothing and it's just a money grab
No. Everyone who doesn't have money for him to grab is fucked.
I'm not American, but tariffs to fix import issues is pretty stupid.
This is the capitalist dream, export all the production of the goods you use daily to third world countries, who will have shit labor practices like the US used to have when slavery was a thing (and bluntly, for quite a while afterwards), so that the boots-on-the-ground laborers that produce everything are either treated like slaves or literally are slaves, then import the raw material to be manufactured into whatever you're selling in the US, so you can slap a "made in the USA" sticker on your shit to enhance sales and charge more. Meanwhile "made in the USA" doesn't and shouldn't imply that there's no imported goods going into the manufacturing process to make that thing, just that you took raw materials (from wherever) and made this thing in the USA.
Tariffs unduly harm end consumers, pretty much everything we buy and own is, or has components that are, imported shit.
Most microchips, a large amount of the food we eat, most electronics, pretty much everything you'll find at a dollar general, etc (the list is very very long)... all imported in whole or in part.
Hell, there was a time that it was more economical to have your raw materials, even if they're mined/harvested/produced in the USA, shipped overseas for assembly by slave labor, then shipped back for sale to the US public, than to have it assembled inside the US. Much of that is still true. The US neither has the manufacturing capacity, nor the desire to build their own shit. The only time that's not the economical option is for large cost (and scale, either in size or money) items, like housing or vehicles. Assembly generally happens in the country/landmass where the vehicle will be sold and used. Even a company like Toyota, a Japanese brand, will have assembly plants in the USA for cars sold in the USA, because that's cheaper than importing hundreds of vehicles. For everything else, it's generally cheaper to assemble it outside of the country and import the final product.
You think process are high now? Wait until the tariff wars really kick off.
No company is going to accept the costs of tariffs and be okay with that eating their profits, they're passing that cost into consumers, because we're the saps that are still going to buy it.
When the tariffs come down, and they will eventually, prices will drop, but not to where they were from before the tariffs. Companies will continue to post record profits, justifying not giving raises because tariffs, and wages will remain stagnant. We'll earn less, while they rob is for more than they already do.
The worst part is that when the tariffs are lifted, we'll thank them for lowering the prices by buying more of their shit. We'll be grateful for the opportunity to pay even more into their profit margins.
Congratulations, you're experiencing late stage capitalism. The system is working as intended. You are poor, you remain poor, barely able to scratch out a living, while your owners profit more and more off of your hard work, and you get to thank them for that opportunity.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
The worst part is that when the tariffs are lifted, we’ll thank them for lowering the prices by buying more of their shit. We’ll be grateful for the opportunity to pay even more into their profit margins.
Prices won't go down, companies will pocket the difference
Oh, they'll go down.... But it won't be nearly as much as it went up to cover the tariff.
What I'm thinking is, let's say a widget is $100, tariffs go in at, say 5%. So it should cost $105, but the price increases to $110. People cry bloody murder, but ultimately they "need" the widget so they buy it. Tariffs go away, yay, the price is dropped, it's now $107.99
that's what I'm thinking.
I want everyone to be angry enough to do something about this.
How do we get everyone angry.
How do we get everyone angry.
This is the problem --- taking away my coffee makes me angry, but I'll be too tired to do anything about it.
nor the desire to build their own shit
I would say that we've also largely lost the means to afford stuff built here, in large part as a consequence of our endless pursuit of cheap crap while scraping the bottom of the barrel with outsourcing. Even if you want to buy domestically-made goods, since we've lost so many of those good union jobs, especially in manufacturing, we no longer have the means to pay what it costs to make such a product with American workers. Especially if people intend to continue with their current consumerist trends.
I'm making $20/hour at the moment. If I want to buy American, union-made shoes, it'll run me $400 a pair, on the lower end. I think it's pretty reasonable to have a pair of work boots, a pair of regular shoes for wearing out and about, and a pair of dress shoes, which at that low end will run me 37.5% of my monthly gross pay. Now do the same for domestically produced clothing, and you've probably run up a bill of several month's pay, just to have enough outfits to last you a single week, leaving aside coats, seasonal clothing, or formal attire. We're either going to have to sharply curtail our purchasing and focus on buying a smaller amount of goods meant to last as long as possibly, or the sadly more likely scenario, we'll see the establishment of domestic sweatshops to fuel the consumerist impulses of what remains of the middle class and up. Whether we'll just go even more insane in our treatment of the poor here, or use prison labor and undocumented migrants "pending" deportation in these sweatshops remains to be seen, but Americans have demonstrated we shortsightedly value our ability to accumulate cheap trash over anything else.
I'd love to be proven wrong, and see a growth of strong unions and domestic production leading to a resurgence in American craftsmanship again, but the current environment is less than amenable to this outcome, to put it mildly.
I don't mean to imply the US should go back to manufacturing their own goods like they had to before global trade was economical.
I hope the point I'm making is that the people like Trump, mostly aggressive capitalists, are significantly in favor of these trends, and adding tariffs to imported goods will harm the businesses that the tariff is intended to protect.
Sales will drop because most goods are simply more price elastic than that. Cost goes up, sales drop, and overall you lose profits. When costs go up, alternative products are supposed to take up the business you lost by raising prices.
Though, to be fair, that price elasticity model is broken. Most product types have been agglutinated into a couple of large companies in an oligopoly, so all brands of that kind of product raise prices to match all the other brands. With no other competition in the market, consumers have the "choice" of paying more for the same thing, or not buying it.
In any case, the entire economy has been so thoroughly fucked by corporations that is just a money printing machine for the ultra rich to get richer.
I've depressed myself now. I'm gonna go.
Politically-motivated tea tax, what could go wrong?
what would the boston tea party equivalent for america be? dumping an entire mcdonalds worth in the sewers?
"No tariffs without Harris"
In our techo utopian future, the only caffeinated beverage will be Diet Mt. Dew.
Chocolate, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, tea, bananas, and a fuckload of other things that are completely integrated into our regular diets are almost exclusively imported.
Sugar too. That ain't healthy and is kinda fancy but... Can you see them losing their shit over sugar prices? I do.
Tomatoes imports were 2.5B in 2023.
Apparently the us imports 15% of it's food supply.
Sugar is fancy now? Man my grandpa would be thrilled were he alive. There's a colloquial term for the farm-houses of sugar beat farmers in Northern Germany, "beat castles", as they quickly made a lot of money growing the beats in the late 19th century. When sugar became more accessible due to the processing of the beats to refined sugar. The wealth is long gone now, similarly to how salt used to be a luxury good.
And the rest is farmed here by undocumented workers.
A lot of fruit/veg is grown in places they can get away with slave wages and then shipped here because that’s how little labor costs. Less than our already super low paid fruit/veg pickers that are primarily the people who escaped the countries and situations that put them in those even lower slave wage places.
It sure would help if Americans weren’t generally ignorant about uh… tons of stuff and especially anything that involves other countries. All sorts of fruits and vegetables are imported - green beans, cucumbers, squash, tomatoes, lettuce, berries, bananas, onions, cauliflower, broccoli, eggplant. And then at the same time, the Trump bros want to crack down on groups of people who make up a large portion of the domestic agricultural workforce? It’s difficult to see some conservative policies as intended to do anything other than just fuck people over and cause chaos.
They are going to blame the deep state or some marginalized group other than the one they just deported
Yep. If you're rich enough to can profit off the economy tanking
I think thats what the crypto people are banking on. Rapid inflation. You're better off just buying imported goods now though, you can always sell them the crypto people at a markup later. Real goods have far more intrinsic value.
There is also seasonal trade to US even when it grows in US.
New FDA head will just change the food pyramid to Coca Cola is a vegetable.
Right, if all you eat is meat, wheat, corn syrup and potatoes, no problem!
People listing Hawaii like they could meet the total US demand, even if they could scale to maximum production overnight.
Most of the corn we eat is Brazilian. Most of the corn we grow is feed corn for cows and process corn for HFCS and other processed food ingredients.
As an American born and raised in Illinois I can also inform the rest of the populace our corn also gets used to make ethanol, an alternative fuel source.
Ethanol is incredibly inefficient as a fuel source.
If not for the massive subsidies it would not exist.
Still, ethanol is a better fuel additive than lead. (Both reduce knocking)
Still, the far better use is to grow food.
Im guessing they also never seen how much the coffee from there cost. Plus supply and demand you dumb fucks. The cost will skyrocket. Kona coffee ranges from $30 to $100 a bag. Think of a massive increase of demand. Are we going to pay $100 a bag for low end stuff?
Hawaii does have the largest coffee growing industry in the entire US but they are severely limited by the amount of available land. Compared to other coffee-producing nations, the Big Island is microscopically tiny, so they mainly focus on high quality, artisanal product sold at extremely high prices. Not that I would mind if all the coffee sold everywhere would be replaced by Kona coffee overnight, but it just isn't feasible.
Some people have never even looked at a dang banana
Don't they grow bananas in Hawaii? I know they have coffee out on Kona.
Coffee grows on Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and recently in a little bit in CA (to add to water problems)
But Labor + limited amounts means it won't be cheaper
You can grow a banana at home. Dwarf banana plants can grow inside. The normal size banana plant is not living room sized, no wonder people think they grow on trees
But how many people drink coffee? And how many bananas can you grow for your self?
Coffee, tea, and everything you're wearing right now.
A ton of parts of what you are driving, all your maga hats, a ton of stuff that's in your house
Your mom wears maga hats.
everything you're wearing right now
Much of that is cotton. I believe that in the "good" ol' days the US grew that themselves. Start that industry up again, and you don't need mass deportations across the border.
Ah, yes...
All we need to keep that industry running like the good ol' days is a massive industry of government subsidized illegal immigration of easily identified persons
The US still makes massive amounts of cotton. That all gets exported to other countries before getting turned into garments and things.
Cotton takes a LOT of water to grow. And takes up farmland that could grow food.
Most of your clothes are artificial fabrics these days. Or blended
Yea, and I hear children's tiny hands are perfect for picking it.
I wanted some foreign goods to get more expensive. To end slavery, not to escalate a trade war!
I should have checked my vicinity for any stray monkey's paws when I made that wish.
Well, the US turning into a banana republic will at least solve the problem for bananas.
You think it's going to be bad when people find out coffee prices are shooting up? Wait until they find out about chocolate.
Good news - chocolate rations have increased from 30 grams to 20 grams
This calls for 50 milliliters of Victory Gin!
And meat after all that feed gets tariffed.
Most competent governments think like this goose because their believe in rules based order and systems. Trump doesn't ascribe to that view and I think he will make a sweeping change and will personally govern exceptions until it suits himself and his base. Hopefully that mangment consumes his time enough to make him less effective.
So then what companies should be formed in the US to give its citizens a chance at affordability of breathing in this life ?
No more coffee but plenty of PRIME(tm) for all!
I work at a small, premium pet food manufacturer. People already complain about our prices. While most of our ingredients are sourced domestically, specialty meats are not. Lamb, duck, venison, goose, etc. going up will dramatically raise our prices.
Many of our products are chicken, pork, or beef-based, and these ingredients are sourced domestically. The fun twist is the rise in popularity of breeds and designer mixes that are predisposed to ingredient sensitivities or allergies. Many of these breeders advise against chicken or beef in these dogs' foods.
You'd think people spending 3-9 thousand dollars on puppies would be in a position to afford special diets, but my experience says otherwise. It's about to get a lot worse.
We're lucky, in that we're one of the few brands who utilizes mostly domestically sourced ingredients. I would expect pet food to jump generally, which doesn't bode well for the increased pressure shelters and rescues are already facing.
Gonna be some cranky leopards in America.
They are just gonna blame Biden still
"I can't believe Kamala did this!"
Huge uptick in folks drinking 4 Loco.
It would be interesting to see the first bipartisan riot.
The first bipartisan riot in the US was kinda the whiskey rebellion.
They can't get out of bed for it without their coffee.
A LOT of food sold in the US are imported.
No more avocado toast
Yay! I can finally afford a hous-… and Blackrock just bought it out from underneath me…
Uff, we'll have to eat Florida avocados, I do not think they taste as good as hass avocados.
I will literally cry if Trump takes coffee from me
Thankfully they only placed tariffs on covfefe imports.
Thank you for reminding me there is at least some comedy coming in the future
Invest in Hawaiian. Maybe Trump can add a few more islands out there so we can compete and export.
Peter Theil coffee farm ships
I'd bet they exempt it. The corporate grinder doesn't really work without stimulants for the workers to purchase so they can work (and consume) more and sleep less.
No, need to keep the peasants to tired to revolt
Not sure if nafta is still active but I don’t think we can tariff Mexico. Mexico has some good coffee options
And I’m not defending trump at all but I don’t think he has any plans on putting tariffs for South America. I thought it was like only a China thing.
Hahaha, shame on you. I live in a country where we make the coffee and we still pay taxes for it.
Apparently, farmers buy a lot of fertilizer from China.
Don't worry, that can be sourced locally. Trump produces enough bullshit to supply the country.
Unfortunately toxic bullshit isnt great for growing things.
Yeah but all his hot air isn't got for global warming.
Dude, if we tariff coffee I will personally write a strenuous letter to Trump. In crayon, and strenuous because I won't have had my coffee.
I do think like 1 million americans sending letters to the white house telling them to fuck off is a funny thing to do. How many letters can be opened by 1 person a day?
All of them in severe grogginess crayon writing on construction paper. So they know as soon as they open it.
inb4 ersatz coffee revival
My chicory plantation will finally turn a profit! Wait till Dandelion Dan hears about this!
Chicory makes my teeth hurt, and it tastes like ass. Just seeing the word makes me want to explode vomit out of my eye sockets. It's horrible what the fuck is wrong with you people
Coffee :(
Honestly though the coffee industry is really awful and I should probably stop drinking it
Drink your brown go-water, slave. You need to output at least 10% more than the last quarter, every quarter.
I am kinda surprised the banana country authorities let this happen at all
Hawaii for one
Hawaiian coffee is $25 a pound, at least it was when I bought some there a few years ago
Lived in Hawaii most of my life: the big name coffees from here are terrible and only have that insane price because it's from Hawaii. Though there are some small local roasters here
Kauai Coffee is a relatively large operation that exports to the continental US and is more like $9 retail (and perpetually on sale for $7.50 or so) for a 10oz bag in the grocery store.
It's not cheap coffee, but it's certainly not top of the line priced coffee.
They do make some coffees that are more than $25/lb, but not the "regular* stuff people would buy in a store.
Of course I agree that their price will go up with the market with tariffs introduced, and that in general the tariffs are a terrible, terrible idea.
Unfortunately the Jones Act means shipping from Hawaii to the continental US requires the use of a shipping vessel constructed in the US, flying the US flag, and entirely crewed by US citizens which makes the shipping costs expensive as fuck.
We should just put a tarrif on all other imports 😂😂😂 🤡
Hawaii is wayyyy too small to meet the coffee demands of a country as big as the US.
This is factually accurate by a several orders of magnitude
On slave plantations for the most part
Foreign slave plantations.
.... Not that slave plantations anywhere makes it better, but the fact that it's foreign will mean that not only is the labor mainly performed by slaves, but we're also paying a premium because it's imported goods. Double jeopardy.
Yay capitalism!
Wonder if we will see an uptick in American made "koffee"?
Something like the Ersatzkaffee from yesteryear. I mean they have the means of making caffeine so maybe it will be better?
Black Rifle Koffee
But (assuming a tarrif is something that can even pass) I imagine you're going to see a swiss cheese of exemptions for favored countries. And these countries will become a back door for imports.
Expect all of your coffee to be mysteriously harvested from Canada.
About a year of shelf storage life for green whole unroasted coffee beans.
Been thinking about them beans
No tariffs have been set but we're going to just assume they'll be put on items we can't even make. 100% tariffs on everything, trade isn't something you strategically do.
The incumbent has claimed repeatedly that there will be 10% tariff on all foreign goods. We can certainly bury our heads in the sand and pretend it's not happening, but that doesn't really do us much good.
That’s the problem. Trump is a complete fucking idiot, so just because something is a terrible strategy doesn’t mean he won’t do it. Look what happened last time with the tariffs on Chinese goods and the small trade war he sparked that screwed over soy exports. Did Trump learn anything from that? Or his voters? Evidently not.
Maybe there’s money in starting a coffee exporting business to the US…
???
Not only do tariffs decrease demand by increasing cost, I think you'll find that people have, in fact, considered that idea before.
As a non-drinker of coffee, I am fully onboard with raising the price of coffee. Everyone is far too addicted to it and drink excessively to an unhealthy amount. Less coffee would be better for general health. Same for chocolate, as I saw someone else mention.
Too bad Trump doesn't care about that and doesn't actually have any plan in mind for this kind of economic policy for the welfare of the people.
"I want things to be worse for everyone who isn't exactly like me."
You're the worst kind of person.
As a non-drinker of coffee
the rest of your opinion is moot. you have no say in this because you don't understand the concepts behind coffee.
I had to stop drinking coffee for health reasons. it was fucking awful. drank a cup a day for decades. I couldn't function properly even six months later.
eventually I started drinking decaf, it helped.
you know why? the routine. the caffeine content is abysmally low but it comforts me first thing in the morning. It's probably the same for many coffee drinkers.
so really, do you want to inhabit a world where at least HALF of the people you know start their day out on the wrong side?
It worked out fine with cigarettes.
Maybe the improved focus from a nice cup of joe would have made you realize how foolish this sounds before posting.
Not something Daniel Suelo buys
Get yourself a few bottles of caffeine pills. They're really cheap and might get you through some tough times
I'm sure the fuckface is going to only tariff countries and products he doesn't like, that saidF we have no idea if Mr. KFC drinks coffee or andrenochrome (joke) my guess is he hates mexico so coffee is getting taxed and things like monster and coke are gonna be the only caffeine available. Start growing coffee folks.
I have a gut feeling that his talk of tariffs is a bluff. Even if it's not my gut still tells me there's going to be exceptions for certain things that are big money makers for Trump and his allies. Trump's administration is not going to tax themselves unless they can provide a loophole to get themselves out of it. Ultimately it's the consumer who pays for tariffs, but they're entire purpose is to slow down trade and if that costs Trump and his allies too much of their wealth it won't happen.
Trump is as predictable as he is unpredictable because he doesn't stay consistent. He changes what he says and does to be perceived as best he can in that moment. Which makes understanding his actions a little easier, his past actions are irrelevant to his future decisions, it's just about what's in his head in the moment. Which is just a lot of words to say that Trump, his administration, and his allies are just chaos, and you never really know what chaos will bring except a change in the status quo. It's not looking optimistic though.
