What are some downsides to immortality that most don't think of?
What are some downsides to immortality that most don't think of?
I'll start off with one, Being upset about a breakup that happened hundreds of years ago.
Edit 1:
- Heath death of the universe, Death of the sun, etc, does not count. I feel like focusing on this is an overused point.
Edit 2:
- Loneliness does not count. I feel like we all know immortality means you'll miss people and lose them.
Being asked your birthdate in order to view a game on Steam, and the year dropdown not going back far enough.
Date pickers that assume you have a 5 digit birth year.
Worse still, no manual entry of the birth date, so it takes ages to scroll down and select the year.
All the comments assume everybody else isn't also immortal. I forget the title and author but there's an old sci fi story (or novel?) about a future where everybody lives for centuries, and they've found that the brain only retains a certain amount of experience. They have long careers, get tired of doing whatever, re-educate and do something else, or even have multiple families they eventually forget about. A couple of the characters are surprised to find out they used to be married like a century earlier. To me that seems vaguely like reincarnation, and I kind of don't hate the idea. I really don't see any downside to that scenario, or even just going on forever.
People are focused on having regrets and negatives that last forever. But buck up li'l camper, you can learn to move on from stuff. And I say this as a dad whose daughter had cancer at age 10 (she survived). It was hell and I wouldn't want to live through that whole period again, but I don't consider it a reason not to want to live forever. The trick is to learn how to cope with these things and not let them outweigh the good experiences you have.
Is it: “the age of pussyfoot” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_the_Pussyfoot
That could be it - many elements are familiar, although the title isn't at all, but I have read a lot of Fredrik Pohl. The plot synopsis also doesn't mention the characters finding out they had been married before. Maybe that's a small detail that just stands out more in my mind.
Swear I've read that. Anyone?
Isn't the movie Hancock a bit in this direction?
A scifi short story I read was set in a somewhat idyllic future.
Robots did everything. Everyone was given housing, food etc. Health was covered and people lived virtually forever. Nobody worked, and you could travel and do anything you wanted.
The most prized thing, that everyone was desperate for, was having an original thought.
Reminds me another story about an idyllic world where almost nobody worked and everything was provided. At one point a crew showed up to repair a house, and everybody gathered around to watch, marveling at their work clothes and tools. One guy yearned to use tools so he started making little craft items at home, and trading them to people for worthless little tiddly wink tokens they used for friendly bets on sports. Then his neighbors started doing the same thing and they got a little economy going, using the tokens as currency, until the government got wind of it and squashed the whole thing because commerce was illegal.
Depends on the type of immorality. Do you continue to age? If no, what age do you stop? Eventually the universe will die. So what happens to you then?
It might be fun for a while. Maybe even a long while. But that fun will be gone in an instant compared to the trillions and trillions of years you will float in a dark dying universe of nothing.
Presumably you will advance along with humanity though, or failing that, just figure out the transcendence thing yourself with so much time?
I don't think anyone would choose to stay 'meatbag human' for trillions of years.
Nothing forever will feel oh so fast when you lose any frame of reference.
immortality doesn't guarantee perpetual health, you're alive, but so broken and sick you wish you could die, but you can't
My knees hurt already. I can't imagine living with constant aging forever until you're just a crumpled pile on the ground and then it still goes on.
"I have no mouth and I must scream" could end up being a plausible way to spend eternity.
Just listened to that recently. I could see this being a thing.
I also couldn't believe how graphic it was for how old it is.
Brandon Sanderson wrote a novel about this.
This was the premise of the Greek myth of Tithonus
In short, Eos fell in love with Tithonus, a mortal prince, and begged Zeus to grant immortality to him (but forget to specify eternal youth and eternal health) so she was forced to watch him age until he shrunk into a raisin and was eaten
Basically all of the time you’re alive will be after the heat death of the universe, where you will be floating in space, with nothing to do, nothing to see, nothing to experience. Complete darkness, complete silence, in a complete vacuum, for eternity. Every other particle in the universe is forever out of your reach. You know that you will have nothing forever. You will never see, hear, or touch anything again, for all of time, which will never end. The trillions of years that preceded your float through the void fade into a distant memory as you outlive twice as much time, four times as much, a trillion-trillion times as much, and infinitely more.
I wrote a story that features such an entity and what was interesting about it to me was how even the slightest glimmer of life beyond their void would lead to an all-consuming desire to experience "living" again.
So just my normal day?
Or you get to experience another big bang. That would be worth the wait.
Then you could call yourself Galactus
That old person feeling of no longer being with "it", and what's "it" now being strange and scary probably compounds over the centuries.
And this is why elder vampires are so vengeful.
I absolutely love the scene in "Interview with the Vampire" where Lestat is found hiding away in a room, distraught by all the creations of modern civilization.
Life will pound you into an uncaring jaded disinterested unloveable husk of a being after too many emotional scars from losing loved ones, too much of seeing humanity make the same mistakes, and too much watching the knowledge you gained turned irrelevant.
Or, life will beat into you an uncanny ability to converse and relate to others, even if fleetingly.
Watch The Man from Earth.
But do not watch the sequel. It ruins the whole beautiful thing.
Yes and No. You could argue that True Love was the factor between them
You don't need immortality for that. Only a bad decade in your 20'.
I've watched the Man From Earth a couple times. Can only recommend.
However it doesn't fit your description. Oldman says that his memory is basically limited. Just like any mortal's. Only the brightest, most impactful memories are retained and the rest is a blur. If you are forty plus, you barely have memories of your childhood today, unless you have recorded them as soon as you could and rehashed them frequently. Same for him. As such, he is constantly evolving with the world mentally (and physically apparently).
The first paragraph is how I imagine he was during the first few centuries of his life, when all the scars were fresh and he had no idea how to deal with it. From the sounds of it he has been in ruling positions, and may have even enjoyed it briefly, before he adopted the humble mindset that he has now and tries to inspire humanity with small acts of compassion.
(I write "adopted" but I like to think that his actions actually reflect the hazy consciousness of humanity at the time, and so maybe he was molded into this persona over the years, as humanity grew somewhat kinder? Or he learned that the highest value one can have is not through wealth or power, but through compassion, i.e. something that all humans would eventually learn, a.k.a humanity does have value if given a chance).
I do wonder how his skills have decayed. Can he juggle? Can he do a backflip, or it's been too long and he no longer remembers how? How elastic is his brain exactly, and what precisely is there left of him in there that just isn't a hazy imprint of his circumstances over the last few centuries.
Imagine a neural net with limited nodes that has been subject to more training data than it can handle. Eventually it just learns to approximate all the data it has seen (overtrained) and isn't elastic enough to predict or react to new stimulus, and becomes set in its ways. Is this the case with John? Or does he summarize old historical data and leaves himself with enough elasticity to learn new things from the last X decades?
Knowing the answer to some of history's biggest mysteries, because you were there, but being unable to speak about them because, 1, that would expose you, 2, nobody would believe you either way because nobody expects you to be THAT old.
Also, it is already frustrating seeing kids being dismissive or denying events that you yourself have lived. Imagine being thousands of years old and seeing so much shit, but those events are rarely retold, forgotten, or straight up denied by conspiracies or future governments that won't admit their fault on it.
Knowing my memory I'd forget it all very soon after it happened and need a history book to help me recall any of it and the stuff left out or distorted would end up warping that recollection enough that it'd be so unreliable I may as well believe the historians. I can scarcely remember the previous day as it is.
Sooner or later, you will get trapped somewhere forever. Over the course of an infinite lifespan, the odds that a building collapses on you or a tunnel caves in on you basically become 100%. Someday, you will fall into the hole that you will stay in until the sun explodes, and then you will drift in the void until the heat death of the universe.
The rest of humanity will eventually evolve into something you don't recognize and can never be part of.
My thought. In 500M years, you would be like the slime that crawled out of the oceans to the dominant life.
Neanderthals wanted to live forever and now we have bigfoot.
People are commenting 'fates worse than death' and 'being made into a labrat by the 1%', but really, if you have infinite time to just do stuff and you can't be killed -- And you don't somehow squirrel your way into a position of power then what are you even doing with your time and immortality, oomfie?
The loneliness part is also questionable. I know OP said it's overly done, but I also think it's just wrong. If you're an adult you've had people in your life die before. It sucks. You miss them. But then you move on. And you meet other people. You'll still go ":(" when you think about the person and such... But life goes on.
And that's just life. It doesn't get any worse if you extend it longer -- If anything it gets better. You might have lost your beloved today, but you have another dozen lifetimes to heal your wounds and meet someone else and fall in love again and (...)
So here's some lower-stakes, frustrating inconveniences of being immortal:
- Your favourite fashion? It's not just out of fashion. It's so out of fashion it is now considered 'historical costuming'. You can no longer find any articles like it at all. Because the only people even trying to recreate the techniques are costuming nerds and theater people who always exaggerate stuff
- You got a song stuck in your head. It is either from before recording was invented, or any recordings of it that existed are too old to be reliably listenable. You have a song stuck in your head.
- You used to really enjoy a job you did. That entire career path is now obsolete. As per the first paragraph of my post, if you're immortal you have probably snuck your way into the upper echelons of society at some point during your infinite time... But like. You're bored. You loved being a Court Jester, now there are no Court Jesters.
- Actually tedium just in general. Sooner or later you'll run out of new things to try, because you'll have done everything that even remotely caught your eye already. So what the fuck will you do with your time? You'll eventually just get depressed and not do anything.
Feeling bad for the immortals who were professional garden hermits.
At some point, our sun will go supernova and you will end up drifting through space.
And all your life before that point will be less than a blink of an eye compared to the time that follows:
Trillions and trillions of years until the heat death of the universe.
And even that time will be less than the blink of an eye compared to the eternity afterwards, when you drift through a black void without any stars.But no people around. So overall a win.
But can I take my Steam Deck with me?
Yes but you don’t have anything to make power to charge it :/
Doesn't this also take into account the universe never does a snap back into itself?
The Sun will eventually fry all life on Earth and boil off the water & atmosphere. Eventually the Sun will die out completely, leaving you on a cold, dark rock.
Once with no atmosphere and the sun going nova, there's a chance of the rock getting obliterated. With a nice boost you might fly off to another planet eventually. Might not be inhabited or even inhabitable, but hey.
I think I'd have enough time to build a rocket....
You’d have Musk-levels of wealth before long, so maybe.
Given a long enough time frame, the vast majority of an immortal life would be spent buried beneath something or floating in the void of space. Think about it, you outlast planets and stars. When those go dark, but you don't die...nothing to do but float in space.
You might counter that with, "well yeah, but eventually I'd find other sentient life forms and/or people again.” And sure, maybe, but that wouldn't last as long as you...and then you're just alone floating in space again, for the vast majority of your life. The only thing to look forward to, since you will outlast everything, is the end of time itself.
Does your consciousness evolve to Godhood, and you reach back beyond time and create the universe which birthed you?
You join the Q Continuom.
The fantastic animated show, Pantheon explores that very idea at the very end of its second and final season.
I think there is a clear difference between being immortal and being indestructible. I would think if your planet breaks apart you'd probably die with it being crushed or whatever. Also always unclear if being immortal means you don't need to breathe air.
I think a good author makes it explicit.
Here's a sci-fi web novel I read years ago, where a couple of the characters end up being immortal in different ways, and in one case they show exactly how far that can go (in the context of the story) even without invoking heat death.
Think about it, you outlast planets and stars. When those go dark, but you don't die...nothing to do but float in space.
LOL, that's just the beginning -- only on the order of 1012 - 1014 years. After that, you're going to be waiting around for proton decay (1036 - 1043 years), all the way up to 10^10^120 years* for the final heat death of the universe.
(* Anybody know how to get Lemmy markdown to do nested superscripts?)
10^10^10
Losing all of the skills you gain. No matter how good you get at something, after a few centuries you'll have lost your edge. You can also only practice so many things concurrently without giving something up. At some point, years down the line, you might try to ride a bike again and completely fail to do it, or try to sing and fail to hit all the notes that came easily before, or do gymnastics but the muscles you need are underused. It doesn't matter that you spent years mastering every skill, your abilities will degrade over time. You'll never really be able to feel sure about your own abilities except for whatever you've done most recently.
If you have epilepsy or Parkinson's or MS, you're just going to likely get worse forever.
Herpes is forever.
HSV vaccines are being developed thankfully, so nothing is forever. ✨
Discovering the upper limits to what the human mind can retain and just constantly forgetting all the shit you used to find important.
Boredom after some period of time, you will have some everything there is to do.
You get to pursue all of the really niche crafts. Things like clock making and random complicated stuff like that.
I don't think one could ever be bored with enough curiosity, and the means to pursue it.
That's really a valid point.
Without getting into the heat death of the universe and all that, I can think of something that happens much, much sooner. I'm only middle aged and I already don't like where the world is going. Can you imagine being centuries, or eons past the era you identified with? Can you imagine how insufferable young people and old people alike would seem when you have centuries worth of life experience and wisdom? Can you imagine a horde of little edge lords on the internet confidently yet incorrectly telling you about the signing of the Declaration of Independence, when you were there when it was signed?
The eventual heat death of the universe would be painful
But would you survive?
If you remember your parka
Government Bureaucracy.
Renewing a driver's licence or passport. The individual looking at your application will see the date of birth and raise a red flag.
Having to constantly find new hiding places for the blood chalice, and keeping up with all the latest scanning methods so you can develop countermeasures. Your secret is never truly safe.
I would assume that over centuries or eons, you'd amass enough wealth and power to comfortably circumvent those sorts of things. If you're not running the world after living for 2000 years, then you're a ley-who-say-her.
If it's the realistic kind where you just don't age, the statistical certainty that you'll eventually die in an accident, or to war or murder. Your odds of getting to the heat death of the universe without making backups is pretty slim.
If it's the kind where you're indestructible, you're highly likely to encounter someone who tries to bury you alive in a subduction zone eventually, because humans are like that, and then you get to spend eternity slowly moving into the scorching mantle.
I would hope to get realllly good in avoding people who'd put me in a subduction zone 😭
It would be an obsession of mine, if I was cursed with the inability to die under any level of duress.
I'm not saying it's common, but punishment by live burial is a thing, and billions of years is an awful lot of human history.
The death of the sun will then eventually set you free into the gravity well of the sun where you'll live burning hot untill heat death of the universe. What to do after that is anyone's guess
Well, depends. The Earth is actually right near the edge of where the sun will expand to, so there's a chance the scorched glob that used to be Earth will stay in orbit. Either way, it will still be hot for a while, and you're ultimately stuck in something solid - be it a dead planet or a white dwarf.
There is such a thing as merciful death; it would not be good to be cut off from it.
Getting trapped under something for a few thousand years.
The longer, the worse it is, not because of how bored you'd be, but the knowledge that you'd be more and more out of touch if ever found.
Cancer. So much goddamn cancer. It doesn't matter what kind of immortality you have, you WILL get cancer. Repeatedly. Over and over. Forever.
That really depends on the type of immortality you get. Brain upload to a cyborg body doesn't get cancer.
Immortality means you could, just keep ripping it out 🤣
Cut the head off to heal
How much more annoying the (much) younger generations would be.
Yeah, they always gloss over how you'd have a very noticeable accent within a couple hundred years, and would straight up be using a second language within a thousand.
As we get older, our perception of time speeds up. An immortal would easily lose track of time after just two human lifetimes, causing an immortal to suffer from dementia-like symptoms where they expect one date but find themselves habitually late. And since time doesn't mean the same thing as us to an immortal, they would eventually become disconnected from the world around them and be unable to reintegrate. They wouldn't be able to maintain friendships, relationships, mortgages, payments, etc. They would be surrounded by people but forever alone.
You know how the curse of pet ownership is that you will almost certainly outlive them?
That, but with everyone you love
That, but with everyone you love
Agreed. You will have to move state to state after three decades. New identity, new job, basically new "life" so as not to raise any suspicions.
You do not wanna spend the rest of the eternity being a state government "lab rat"
I believe there's a movie about this.
There's another https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1655441/
I had a really nice washing machine. Then it broke. The manufacturer was dissolved 25 years ago.
I had a really nice cast iron pan. Then it fractured. Modern cast iron pans aren't smooth.
I had a really nice car. Then a part broke. Replacement parts haven't been available for 50 years.
I had a really nice flip phone. It was made by Nokia so it still works. People think it's weird that I use a flip phone.
I had a really nice peace and quiet. Then someone invented ambulances. Now I cower in the corner of my bedroom hiding from manmade horrors beyond my comprehension.
Repeated surgical corrections for your ever growing earlobes
Science fiction is going to age poorly. A lot of it is already hilariously dated. Look at most of Star Trek. They're flying at FTL speeds through space with artificial gravity, teleportation, lifelike androids, and replicator technology, but their screens absolutely suck. More and more of those inconsistencies are going to add up over the centuries and make things ridiculous after a while.
The number of new things that people enjoy dwindles with age. Just about everyone agrees that the music that was being made when they were teenagers is the epitome of the art. Are you going to be able to enjoy anything when you're 2563 years old?
The older you get, the faster time apparently moves. Having grown up in the 80s and 90s, on some days, even "The year 2000!!" still feels like it should be the future to me. I can't imagine what even a few centuries would do to this phenomenon, let alone a millennium or megaannum (I had to look that word up.)
On the upside, presuming I'm the only immortal, I'll be the only person currently alive to see if they actually finish that performance of Organ2/ASLSP in Halberstadt.
If we're talking magical immortality, as in you can't die, at all. Then the fact that however much enjoyment and experiences you get while the universe still exist, it will be followed by an infinite stretch of nothing after the heat death of the universe.
Having to keep track of that evil snail.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5ipinn/you_and_a_super_intelligent_snail_both_get_1/
If other people are also immortal, the awkwardness of all of them eventually becoming your exes
"Hey, we talked about this. You stick with the 52 states while I herd my broken heart down south"
Just depression in general. I don't want to live one lifetime, let alone never being able to die.
If you're immortal in a body that isn't broken then that might be a different story, but you'd still grow to love people only to have to lose them and go through that pain over and over.
Highlander does a good job at highlighting this.
Wage slaving never stops
Based on your question, you might dig the book “Boat of a Million Years.” The author put quite a bit of thought into just that.
People, corporations, and other entities would over time gather more data about you. There's always some kind of information footprint that you leave behind. And you'd stand out from other humans by the way you talk (i.e. using slang from 200 years ago, and speaking about historic stuff with details that the general public is not aware of) and other traits, which makes you traceable.
Having potentially thousands of years of embarassing moments of social awkwardness to think about. And, over the aeons, being relieved when the people you know and love die because they won't remember the things you're so ashamed of.
Nobody:
Your brain: remember that time you said the wrong word in 1374?
You'd procrastinate things for 100s of years, until at one point you're simply no longer able to do it. Wanted to domesticate a saber-tooth cat some day? Too bad, they're extinct now. Wanted to visit the baths in ancient Rome? Well, it is not the same Rome anymore, and all the baths' floors are cold.
Either "Boredom: After some time you have seen basically everything." or "Can't keep up: The world changes so fast, and I'm, stuck in a mindset I acquired in 1543".
And: Bureaucratic nightmare. "We have you on file as being born in 1924, but you don't really look like a centennial. Can I see your passport instead of that of your great-grandfather, please?"
I cannot connect to the boredom one at all. Are there books, video games, stone tablets, cool rocks to look at? Outta here with that boredom nonsense.
The disappointment of experience winning lifetime supply of something but that would eventually turn into a lie
Getting imprisoned for thousands of years unable to get out.
That's a lot of time to figure out an escape plan and execute it!
Life sentence and they start wondering why you haven't died yet.
You'll be perpetually behind the times. People tend to get set in their ways even by their 30s. You'll constantly lag behind the trends, language, and tastes of the younger generation...
If you were the first to be immortal, you may not have the best version of immortality and it may render you incompatible with better, future types of immortality. Like magical regeneration that prevents you from getting a personality upload to a cyberbrain that is a million times faster and smarter than the squishy biological brain.
On one hand, you have eternity to come to grips with everything you've done. On the other hand, it might take eternity to come to grips with everything you've done.
Seeing all of your friends and family die, knowing you'll never stop missing them.
Having the perspective of centuries. Seeing society make the same mistakes over and over again because they forget, but you never do. It would drive me mad. Already does, considering I have the ability to, and have, read history. I just imagine living it over and over to be tedious.
Friends, family, and lovers dying before you.
Family meals that take 3 restaurants No retirement
Rephrase?
I think they're saying this:
Family meals would comprise of three restaurants worth of people since they're all immortal
Separately, you can never retire since you will never hit retirement age
Having to listen to that Queen song, forever.
Forgetfulness. Think how forgetful people get after having lived a normal lifespan, now go for a few thousand+ years and you’ve probably forgotten whole centuries of your life. This is actually the premise of a solo journaling game Thousand Year Old Vampire, you have to cross out and forget memories as you progress through the game, just forgetting whole parts of your life.
I don’t think you’d remember a break up from hundreds of years ago, let alone be upset about it.
Vampires are always like this in stories. I feel like reality might be more like ergo proxy. Where what is a relationship that tastes 10 or 200 years compared to thousands?
Being eaten by sea anemones, tuna, sharks, swordfish, sea turtles, penguins, and other jellyfish.
Btw if you were actually immortal, after a while you would just go into shock and enter a vegetative state from all the psychological stress.
How can you be sure?
And after a while you’d come out of that state
I think you're undervaluing loneliness. Loneliness isn't just missing some one. Loneliness means there's no point in connecting with people because they will just die. Loneliness means that no one knows the depth of your condition because it isn't available to them. It means that as they change and face new obstacles, you'll be oblivious to all of that. You'll not only see them die, you'll see the vitality deep out of their pores as they age. All the while you'll never know what that means personally or feel that slow slipping.
Also, super weird that your example is a breakup and people dying is something not worth registering.
I kinda disagree with you. Why would it be different from now? We know that people will die.
I've had good friends pass away at different times, and it hurts but eventually, I move on.
My only exception, with the knowledge I have today, is that I wouldn't have any kids. That attachment is straight up reptilian brain and that would be way too hard. Otherwise, it would be okay.
It's the difference between knowing you'll grow and graduate together with your classmates vs knowing you're only going to see them for that one month before you move away.
Loneliness. I think being immortal would show someone what true Loneliness is
I suppose it depends on the rules of this specfic immortality. As someone who lives with chronic pain that literally never feels physically comfortable in any position, immortality sounds like a cruel joke. Not that I'm suicidal or eager to die, but the fact that it would progressively get worse and worse without any sort of end is.... horrorific.
One of my books features an immortal protagonist and I've as such thought about this quite a bit. More than the answers already provided here, what I found interesting as a writer was the balance I needed to find between making an immortal detached from mortal values while still being engaging to mortal readers.
Said as a pithy question, if you can outlive everyone's decisions and mistakes, what would it take to make you do anything at all?
Not being able to kill yourself.
I'll say no one can truly know. Unless you are yourself immortal
secrets!
If it's just you being immortal, loss of all family, and friends, and loss of new friends, rinse repeat forever. Eventualdieyoull watch society collapse and regrow (possibly), and the planet will die. Immortality is forever after all. Then you're left alone on a deserted dead planet. Electronics you have will eventually break and fade away to time. The sun will grow and die off, and it'll burn because you're immortal but still stuck on a planet that'll get enveloped, eventually. Living forever would be terrible unless it was forever until you died of something physical, just not age and illness.
Read this on the largest number every used in a mathematical proof.
Then ask yourself, if you think you could handle this number in microseconds let alone an eternity
Does yer dick still work when you’re like 150?
Yes, in the oncoming capitalist hellscape, even white dudes named Richard will need to work
LoL investing and compounding! I literally have all the time in the world.
outlasting humanity and all its trappings
All the people trying to dissect you for science.
Idk id be super depressed if I was able to experience my family, friends, family's children, and so on die.
i think that experiencing all the things & people i care about would be the worst of it.
either that or seeing us repeat history over and over again as a society complete with all of the indifferent cruelties it entails and studying it, but ignoring it anyways
Everyone else in your life that isn't immoral (if you're the only one who is) dies eventually, so every time you make a friend or start a family, you do so knowing that you will have to watch them all die someday.
Wow you're a real smart one, nobody has ever thought about that. Read the Question in the title again.
Watching history repeat itself.
being alive
As OP mentioned, a lot of replies focus on loss, that friends will inevitably die and objects will break........ we already face that reality with regular life! That's hardly a downside of immortality itself.
Man, you took it too real too quick
