Sometimes you don't need to fill the silence with sounds. I'd rather be in a relationship with someone that we can sit down and be quiet together
Or you can use literal sounds instead of words. My spouse and I have this thing going on where we make this kind of squeak/baloon sound with our mouth which has the same effect as "hi, nice to see you".
My wife and I do things in threes: three taps, three nudges, three blinks, three noises, whatever. It means “I love you”. It’s a nice way to say it when you’re too tired to say it. I think it originated when we’d say it as we were falling asleep.
The key to understanding is finishing the sentence.
"I hate small talk... with people I have no reason to talk to and don't care about."
I love my partner, and even when it's small talk I can listen all day, just to hear their voice and learn a little more about them, to feel closer to the person I married in many small ways.
But I don't care about what Jim at the laundry mat did last weekend, or which machine he thinks makes socks dry faster.
But small talk is what got you your wife. What if Jim can be your future if you just gave him the time
Drag didn't get drag's dragon by doing small talk. Drag's dragon fell in love with drag because it was impressed with drag's magic.
Get yourself a girlfriend by impressing her with your arcane talents.
But I don't care about what Jim at the laundry mat did last weekend, or which machine he thinks makes socks dry faster.
tough. :) here's what he (might have) said: it's the 2nd and 3rd dryers from the left. the smaller ones. you also need to use the smaller 'double load' front-loading washers. those have an extra extract cycle and get the most water out. the dryers used to literally only cost 25c to dry most loads (an extra quarter for all denim or something), but they (new owners of the laundry) increased the minimum needed per-load to $1.50 (on top of more than doubling the washers' prices). greedy bastards.
Its only "small talk" if you dont actually care about what the other person says. If you are genuinely interested, then its just a conversation. Thats how i see it at least.
Yeah, this. Talking small is faking interest. I'm not good at that. But when I actually care about the other person, "what have you been up to" is meaningful. Cause I actually wanna know.
Yeah but small talk can get the ball rolling on a real conversation. It's just a way of initiating a conversation and it's giving an opportunity for someone to talk about things they might be interested in.
"It's nice day out today!" doesn't literally mean that. It means "there's an opportunity for us to do something outside if you'd like, but if not, perhaps you'd care to discuss something that's important to you instead? Of course you you aren't interested in having conversation or doing an activity, I'm perfectly fine with that too" but in a significantly more concise way. Sure you don't really care about their opinion on the weather or whatever small talk, but it's a completely open-ended expression of a willingness to have a conversation about something that matters to the other person. It's opportunity to have a real conversation without any pressure to have a real conversation.
Also it's not that hard to do.
Yeah but small talk can get the ball rolling on a real conversation.
It can also be used defensively to avoid having the ball get rolling on a real conversation. This is a key defensive use of small talk which can be deployed at occasions such as "Family Gatherings", "Workplace Water Coolers", "Sports Events".
If you know your relative is a conspiracy theorist and will inevitably try to use a gap in the conversation to talk about how the Jews are using their Space Laser to Direct Hurricanes at Lithium Deposits to Remove the Lawful Inhabitants from their Rightful Land... deploy small talk to avoid this.
P.S. Avoid "the weather" as that's an opening to talk about how the recent hurricane was controlled by Blackrock.
"it's not that hard to do" is absolutely giving never had a mental illness vibes
Completely this.
I mean that's basically why a lot of us are great at small talk: we actually do care about the contents of that low stakes conversation with strangers.
Yup, the only two things small talk and conversation have in common is that they take a minimum of two people and involve spoken words.
If people small-talk in sign language, would it be called small-talk?
Your remark about "spoken words" made be think about this and I find it curious, since "small-talk" has become something of a fixed expression.
While words related to vocal conversations do appear in other phrases like "being left speechless" for example, I imagine "small-talk" to be more of a thing on its own in today's usage.
Wife and I have a longstanding argument over whether free-will exists.
I say it does and she has no choice but to say otherwise.
and she has no choice
I am forced to see what you did there :D
Consider this, free will can still be pre-planned. We can choose what we want to do, so what if it was pre planned? I still chose it.
One time I was talking about this with my friends. I said I believe it exists and they all laughed and said "particles have rules, you're made of particles." 🥺
I'm able to make smalltalk. I just don't enjoy it, so I avoid it when I can.
And my wife and I don't engage in smalltalk. We talk about what we actually care about. Seems to have worked fine for the past 24 years.
Pretty much.
I don't wake up and ask my wife, "How's the weather?" Or "Did you see that game last night?"
We talk about real shit. Like yesterday, we had a long conversation about what we would do with a tamed bear.
It's not small talk if you love the other person
It certainly can be.
If I'm making smalltalk with my SO, it's because there's something more weighty I want to discuss, but I'm looking for a way to broach that topic in a better way. So regardless of how I feel about them, it's still an issue because it means I don't feel safe to attack the topic head-on.
That feels like a communication strategy tailored to your relationship rather than small talk. small talk, in my opinion, is meaningless banter without motive. This may be pedantic, but I just don't think I would classify that as smalltalk, since there's an objective and I'm theoretically engaged, I personally would have no issue with it.
It's when there's seemingly "no point" that I consider it difficult
We will sit in comfortable silence together.
Actually this. One of the most meaningful relationships in my life is a woman who will sit in silence with me at the opposite end of the couch, some random nonsense on TV and we're both just on our phones sharing memes with eachother. You don't need to fill every moment of silence between people with words
Comfortable silence. Learn to appreciate it.
My wife is a VERY quiet person. She doesn't say a lot but when she does it's because she actually has something to say. This made me nervous when we were first dating but I've learned to embrace it. Silence is OK. She definitely talks more than she used to but we don't have to talk all the time. Sometimes she just looks at me and smiles without saying anything and in those moments I know that I am loved.
She's thinking of how she'll dispose of the bodies. 😁
Drag doesn't like jokes about how people who socialise differently are serial killers.
Imagine going through a marriage like "how about that weather"
IIIIT'S LIKE RAAAAIIIIIIIIIN ON YA WEDDING DAYYYY
IT'S A FREE RIIIDE WHEN YOU'VE ALREADY PAID
Have you seen the weather, lately?
Lol - yeah, that would suck!
"And what is it with airline food?"
“Oh yes hurricanes every where”
Yeah, no wonder so many people get divorced...
I'd like to have similar interactions with my significant other to the ones I have with my cats. You know, things like siting on the couch together... saying silly things in even sillier voices... staring into each other's eyes while blinking slowly... yelling at her to get down from the cupboard...
If my partner can't handle silence, then there's something seriously wrong. We usually have something to do and if we don't we just cuddle up. There's no need for constant noise.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
The thing about Arsenal is they always try to walk it in!
Pretty sure being in a long term relationship means you’ve moved on from small talk a long time ago.
I don’t want to talk with my wife about the weather, we have more important shit to worry about unless we’re literally having to dodge a tornado.
Small talk is for strangers.
Yup. And if we don't have anything more important to talk about, we'll just cuddle. Silence is absolutely fine with people you're comfortable with.
If you went outside and the weather was pleasant you'd never mention it to your wife? Never say anything like "have you been outside? It's so nice today!"
What if I told you: People who hate small talk only have meaningful relationships. It’s the shallow relationships they lack.
This. This exactly. I’m friends with few people, but I’m very good friends with them.
I think there's a misconception regarding what counts as small talk. "Bland conversation that has no real point but to escape silence" is small talk. Asking you how your day went because I care about you is not. "How's the weather?" is small talk. "How was your trip to the grocery?" is small talk. These are dumb things and, if your relationship can't bear the silence that would be interrupted because "The vegan sausages were on sale today", then it prolly doesn't need to exist.
I'm not entirely sure what counts as small talk. When I think of it, it's usually conversation between strangers or acquaintances where neither party knows the safe topics, the topics to be avoided, or even the general preferences of the other. It's all testing water stuff.
I think that's what people actually mean when they say they hate small talk. They hate the awkwardness of not yet knowing enough about their interlocutor to know they won't accidentally upset anyone. Or they don't have the skill to navigate that social space to avoid negative consequences. It can feel downright dangerous in some circumstances.
And that's tough. Because the socialites think it's a skill issue, which it often is. And unfortunately if you don't learn that skill growing up, the social consequences of being bad at small talk only get bigger and more dangerous, which prevents folks from being able to practice freely.
I dunno. Just my $.02 I guess.
It's funny cause to me it's always meant a third entirely different thing! To me small talk is just starting from a basic place to feel each other out a bit, bringing up mundane things and simple questions to find topics we could drill further into.
"How was your day" to a partner would be small talk, even though I care about what they're saying - I'm just asking so they can bring up something to talk about. "Weather's been shit lately" to a stranger is small talk, but the ensuing story about how they had to rush to work late in the rain would not be.
Given it means three different things to three random people, it's almost like "small talk" actually covers a broad set of social purposes and people who "aren't into it" might actually be missing a lot 😝
I don't disagree with you at all, but the screenie was of a message addressing communication between people who are supposedly in an intimate conversation. One should hope that their conversations can be more substantive, personal, and easy-going in a romantic relationship.
Some ability to break ice with strangers using brief small talk is useful as a starting point for conversation, but if you truly know me, say what you need to say or enjoy the ASMR of my presence.
the social consequences of being bad at small talk only get bigger and more dangerous
Eh, I just went into a field largely dominated by introverts, which seems to have largely solved the problem.
I'm reasonably "good" at smalltalk, but I actively avoid situations where I need to use that skill.
Yup. I ask my SO how they slept because I know they tend to go to bed late and I want to know if I should make time for them to take a nap or something.
We only talk about the weather when we're deciding on plans for the day (e.g. picnic or dine in today?).
If you're talking just to talk, you've already lost.
Remind me never to get into a sustained meaningful relationship then.
Small talk by definition is useless drivel. I don’t build relationships on that…
You can talk about ideas on what to do in the bedroom or kitchen instead of the weather. My girlfriend and I talk about the nature of the universe and consciousness quite often.
I dont know how to make small talk so i just learned to make really good goat noises
You need to change your name to just_an_average_goat
I'd like to be your friend.
I always took it as an early red flag that the person is way too intense and stressful to be around if every conversation has to be a do or die dynamic.
It's not that it has to be that exciting. Just don't talk endlessly about shit that doesn't matter. You bought a new kind of mustard, I don't need a 20 minute explanation on why. To me, someone who can't exist without noise, or making noise is a red flag. That being said, early on in the relationship is different because you're still trying to get to know them.
Yup. If my SO and I don't have anything more urgent to say, we generally talk about upcoming plans, like next year's vacations, shopping lists, etc. We almost never talk about the weather unless we're planning to be out in it.
Been together >10 years, small talk is pretty rare and largely reserved for entertaining guests.
As a person who doesn't really like to talk to most people and believe silence is fine... Let us have this do or die conversation.
Then return back to where you came from.
I was here first so no, I’m not going away or to ‘where I cam from’. Especially considering You’re the one who invited yourself here. You seem pretty desperate to have interaction with someone who is fine with small talk. I would have thought you’d catch that drift and go back to where you came.. I even left the warning there for you to avoid. I wasn’t exactly hiding it. Small talk isn’t going away. But you can choose to avoid it or cry about it more, fragility.
The only people in real life i have met who have ever complained about small talk were in the context of "i do not care enough about [the people around me] to pay attention to anything [they] say not directly relevant to me/my hyperfocus" and i just realize they're the "everyone else is an npc" crowd and let them be sulky all the time and hate every social thing they have to do, and I'll have a fine time chatting with the cashier about her day! These are always the same people who say everyone else is boring, not that they have given anyone the time of day.
Tbh if they see others like that im happy to not give them my time and show interest in them either. All social is give and take on every level and those people are always takers. We're where we are now because of people who can't bother to care about the lives of others.
My inability to carry even a basic conversation is just one of many reasons I have no plan to be in any kind of relationship, sustained or not, meaningful or not
personally im a firm believer in the shut the fuck up and be quiet camp.
Who cares if you talk. If you have something to talk about, talk about it, if not, don't it's that simple.
I've seen women like that on dating apps. Claim to hate small talk, include in their bio that if you just open with "hi" they'll unmatch you, and then when you put some thought into actually writing a response, ask a leading question about their interests or what they wrote in their profile, they unmatch you anyway.
#thisiswhyyouresingle
How did everyone take this post to mean that you should only do small talk with your partner and not have deeper conversations?
I think this was written by someone who isn't comfortable with extended periods of silence with their partner.
My wife and I barely speak or communicate nonverbally for hours sometimes, then talk at great length other times. We always give each other an opportunity to talk about our day or whatever else is important, but we don't talk about trivial things simply for the sake of talking. We're comfortable with silence.
There's likely at least a small correlation between people who dislike small talk and being at least somewhat socially inept.
(This doesn't mean I'm saying everyone who dislikes small talk is socially inept. That's not how correlations work.)
I would say it is likely complex. One might also assume for similar simplistic reasons that small talk is primarily used by people who get insecure if someone else isn't constantly acknowledging their presence by talking with them about something.
Likely neither of those simplistic explanations do the full complexity of social dynamics justice.
Someone once pointed out to me that what I consider small talk might be someone else's important.
Sure it might seem like gossip or chat about the weather just for the sake of talking but it can equally be someone trying to say that they are lonely and need reassurance.
I think about that a lot and I've become a lot more tolerant. Besides, you can segue into some pretty big chat from such humble starts.
This is a great way to think about it, goes along nicely with the idea that even the smallest acts of care can have a huge impact on someone's day. Simply engaging with someone a little can be enough to make them feel better. It might even be fair to say it's What We Owe To Each Other (for fans of moral philosophy, and/or The Good Place 😉).
Ha, jokes on them! I haven't been in a relationship in about a decade and I don't see that ever changing so I don't need small talk!
...wait. Who's the joke on?
:P
They seem ritualistic social interactions. Like some bird's courtship dance except there's no relationships interest. So it's just a burden that I didn't want to participate in unless I have a genuine friendship.
This poor individual has never been in a lasting relationship.
If you can’t talk, in full, with your partner such that you somehow need small talk, that’s not a relationship, it’s a one night stand that happens to last for 3 months to a year.
As other people in this thread have said, it's usually more about the person than it is the topic. I'm happy to hear my wife talk about the weather tomorrow but if the guy behind me in line at the store does it I'm answering in grunts and annoyed expressions.
Sure, but it also has more depth than the guy at the checkout. It ties into the garden, the potential outdoor activities, possibly premade plans, possible seasonal house prep (stow the hoses, shut off the outside water, bleed the lines.). And all manor of things tied to your life together. Thus it’s not really small talk.
but seriously free will does not exist.
But I saw him jump over those rocks in the movie, Free Willy has to exist!
Is there any meaningful difference if it's an illusion? We experience existence as if it does exist.
I think it makes the most difference in how we treat crime and punishment. If you accept that there is no free will, then the concept of punitive sentences is unhelpful at best, or barbaric at worst.
and on the flip side, billionaires who win the cosmic lottery are nothing special. everything was preordained for them.
How do people who don't like the color chartreuse expect to color things? Chartreuse is my favorite color!
Imagine having a relationship based on talking about the weather today. I talk about things I enjoy talking about. If I don't have anything to say then quiet is peaceful. 😊
When family/friends asks you how you are doing but don't listen to the answer that really sucks. Or they hear what they expect and make a comment that clearly means they weren't listening. Personally I found that too much of small talk is someone saying or asking something with no intention of listening. Maybe they think they are being polite or some social obligations to talk but I hate it. If I ask "How you doing?" "How's work?" I'm going to listen to your answer. If I make a comment about the weather and you comment back I will listen.
Quantum physics, theoretical alien biology, the alleged obsolescence of battleships... Do these all count as small talk? Because this is the stuff my wife talks about with me.
Alleged? Oh man, let me just get out my modern day naval warfare mini figs, and the modern rulebook (do you like 2e or 3e?), and let's see your battleships take on my missile destroyers! It is ON, Farragut!
how do people who "hate small talk" plan on being in sustained meaningful relationships
That's the neat part--I don't!
I'm in this picture and my SO doesn't like it.
Ehm. Yes?
The weird shit in my head is not suitable for public utterance. I can give you engaging statements or appropriate statements, but one statement that is both requires far more effort.
Small talk with strangers, acquaintances, neighbors is draining even when I like those people. Those closest to me do not require appropriate statements, so with them it never feels like small talk.
Personally I think that small talk is also regional. Some places small talk might be discouraged at a store while other places it might be encouraged. The same might be for the subway, a restaurant, the bathroom, etc, depending on the country or culture it may be totally ok or exceptionally discouraged.
I really fucking hope there isn't a place on earth where smalltalk on public transit is encouraged.
I don't know about encouraged, but it's definitely not uncommon in some places. Small talk doesn't have to be a lot of communication either, it can be as little as basic platitudes. It's things like sitting at the bar in a pub and the guy beside you points out an amazing play on the television or it could be the person on the bus pointing out something crazy they see out the window.
I tell jokes. I don't really do small talk. But, yes most conversations are deeply personal and deeply philosophical. I have lots of great friends, a lovely wife, a good job and fantastic kids. So yes, you can do just fine with almost no small talk. Become yourself, not what some unimaginative poster on the internet desperate for validation of their opinions thinks people should or shouldn't become.
good job
That's exactly how my wife and I do things.
Some people view certain talk as smalltalk but im always up to know about the weather or bad traffic or anything I can avoid or indulge in if I can.
Breathe, son.
Honestly, I always engage in small talk. You can hate it but I see you on a regular basis and I'm always attempting to make a connection, one day we will connect.
Is that a threat? Oo Because that kind of sound like a threat
It's a promise
I mean, yeah? That's always been my relationships, I've only ever had pretty long-term ones.
Do y'all literally talk to your significant others about the goddamn weather or food every day?
Idk about y'all but in my current relationship I'd usually start with an in-depth analysis of some latest media I consumed or a geopolitical development, we'll be briefly reflecting upon developments in Palestine or Ukraine or UK politics or the latest on the US election while we share a couple Red Bulls and try new Elfbar flavours.
Sometimes this descends into a hearty debate on economics like whether increased taxation can raise the value of currency through demand creation (technically but it's not an effective measure), however eventually i will be pivoting into a technology I had learned about or historical context for some such, perhaps reflecting upon my cybersec exploits, relating to my independent study or my dayjob.
At some point she'd relate it to a material or technique she's been studying for her masters in material engineering, she'd remark on disliking inorganic chemistry, and we'd get into in-jokes, (latest being about Aerobiz 2000 for the Sega Genesis and my interest in the inner workings of an A320 and less than stellar business acumen) which will inevitably make us watch a video essay on YT or play a light game together like Life is Strange or HOI4 or even just listen to some music, later we'd order some Domino's Pizza and have some intimate times, a couple of nice sweet Barefoot wines and maybe a bit of Kinder Chocolate (not Bueno) for dessert later, we're asleep.
Sometimes we get nostalgic and talk about what life was like before we met on Tinder or talk about our future dreams, plans and aspirations.
I think smalltalk is okay when you're in a work meeting and you just want the coworkers to go away as soon as possible and let you get back to sleep, but I'd never date someone who is so socially inept that they would resort to smalltalk.
And thus a healthy relationship wherein the individuals are mutually becoming smarter, with better norms, instead of increasing the normalcy of less intelligencegrowing conversation as their minds and norms deteriorate from it. Weird how it's the rarity.
I hope it's not, and this is just twitter being twitter but you never know I suppose. Not worth making assumptions over one tweet, least of all about anything in the real world, nothing further from reality than the average tweeter.
Absofuckinglutely. This is what I do, and what she does, though our methods of exploration vary.
Plan...?
Yeah, that's pretty much how it looks like for me
Actually I have this kind of conversations. I don't care so much about monkey problems
I wish I knew why small talk is important and why the example in the post is a problem. It would be helpful if someone could explain it.
If you date someone for 2+ years, at that point, you know what their opinions are on all meaningful topics. All there is left to discuss is small talk: how's your day, did you like the TV show, etc.
Unless your both happy sitting in silence, you'll probably drift apart.
Edit: I think the issue a lot of people here have is not small talk itself, its small talk with strangers. Asking a loved one about their day is small talk, but that doesn't diminish its value.
I love small talk. It's just noises that communicate emotion or very basic information, and it has a script!
I think no matter what we do most of the things are outoff our control
Small talk stinks Small talk stinks See the young man in his new gown Talking up to his bouffant drag He says he loves you with flowers Something that he's never had A sentence should be like a serpent Quick with a sting in its tail -bauhaus, Small Talk StinksYou need small talk to find the big talk.
Of course they dont say stuff like that.
Great thinkers have been telling us that free will is an illusion for decades.
I mean, that would be ridiculous......
Its me, they're talking about me aren't they?
Sorry, what i meant to say was, I think there's always at least two ways to go about things and, whatever side you fall on, you just have to follow your truth because, ultimately, you have to be true to yourself. I think thats all you can do really because, if you're not being true to yourself, then you're living a lie.
So, you've just got to do what you've got to do because, at the end of the day, it is what it is and that's not going to change anytime soon.
I've heard some people talking about not being able to sustain meaningful relationships. Well, I don't know much about that. But what I do know is that I enjoy the freedom of doing things my way and to just be me. If being against me not being me is wrong, then I don't think I want to want to be right.
Are you happy now? Is that what you wanted of is it still "too big" for you, John?
If you can question free will, you have free will.
I'm a naturalistic determinist, I literally can't not question free will
Or were you predestined to question it?
why?
haha I just small talk to appease social standards. In my ideal reality, intelligent beings are creating and doing greater things themselves every day and viewing it like a wasted day if they have not. I could, right now, talk about my design decisions I'm coding in to this editor today and what some of the plans are for it as of now. I wouldn't talk about Why I'm focusing on the editor before the game because I've already been over that so there would be little gain for the ultimate quality of what I'm making in that conversation. And, with my ideal type of person, the conversation could easily drift in to what groundbreaking realms they are in too. It should be like this every day for an individual to be considered healthy. Comparatively, small talk is a waste meant to give vocalization options to beings fulfilling low to medium potential roles that cannot enter any realm of novelty themselves ~followers that cannot be waymakers. I know I say this in a realm of 90% people who are just fulfilling a low potential role while otherwise 'passing the time', just like the person in the post. So downvote me. You know it's true tho and it isn't the smalltalkers who are the next feynmans, einsteins, etc. Where do you aim for yourself? 'passing the time' 'smalltalk' level or higher?
💊
I have a meme answer to this.
I’m not going to be in a relationship with anyone who thinks “freewill” is a word.
Sounds like Germans are gonna be at an inherent disadvantage.
