This is my reason for joining "Fuck Cars"
This is my reason for joining "Fuck Cars"
I love cars (own several) and most are over 20 years old. Why? They were better. Smaller. Less tech. Better looking. Not controllable by your government/corporation (Elmo TeSSSla). I hate almost every new bloated rolling ad infested garbage i see now.
What i don't understand is how fuel efficiency does not seem to be a concern of an average buyer? It is a large factor for me, and I'm proud to have highly efficient car for its class. Are those large trucks somehow more efficient than older, smaller models? Or are average buyers just not concerned with efficiency?
Well not everyone has seen the light of factorio, so i might be over-fixating on efficiency.
Oh, they don't care. Didn't you know the price of gas is always the fault of the opposing parties last or current elected president??? That's the AMERICAN way! Blame everybody else, and never accept the consequences for your own actions.
Yeah all the people bitching about gas prices are getting 8-12 mpg in these things, filling a 25 gallon tank once a week. A lot of these folks aren’t exactly rich either and the trucks are expensive. They’re paying a mortgage payment in monthly fuel, insurance, and loan expenses on these things.
If they could keep their egos in check, they’d save a lot of money.
Or the fuckers rolling coal in lifted diesel pickup trucks. Like if you drive in that trash your opinion on gas prices is null
Part of the issue is that, despite people whining about how "high" fuel prices are, they are extremely low compared to most of the world, even during periods where it's higher than usual. Although a sustained period of higher than usual fuel prices can get some to switch, like the period around the financial crisis.
My coworker complains about gas every other day. Like asshole, you drive your pickup truck three miles to work behind a fucking computer.
It's a 8 minute bike ride.
My 91 Cherokee has better mileage than a lot of modern cars, I think the last time I did some basic calculations it came out to about 25 MPG.
The diesel HD trucks can average nearly 20mpg, and the diesel half tons can get almost 30. The gas trucks will get 10-17mpg with good highway tires. Off road tires bring it down to 8-15.
I’m completely in agreement that the people bitching about fuel prices are often the ones driving something like this. My truck is an HD gasser and I pay 4.50 a gallon right now. Sure it sucks, but I have a need for a truck. Other guys just drive them to an office job where a smaller fun car could easily get the job done. In a surprising twist though of just efficiency and aero dynamics my twin turbo V8 sports sedan will pull almost 28mpg on the freeway. Both are not hybrid.
I have definitely said though that I wish there was a hybrid gas HD truck. It makes perfect sense. If I need to run a welder or other high power usage tool I would love to have that capability, while still being able to tow 17k pounds no problem and carry 6 people comfortably. They have already proven it works with the F150 power boost, and that gets almost 28mpg freeway.
Full size trucks can get about 22 mpg highway. A 2011 Ford Ranger, the last year they were made, got 19 highway, with the v6..
They have gotten more fuel efficent.
Light truck fuel efficiency has slowly been dragged up kicking and screaming by CAFE "fleetwide" rate by .25 to 1.3 MPG per year over the last decade or so. If memory serves we get 1.7 more MPG on light trucks in 2025.
With all due respect, those numbers are terrible.
Fuel efficiency is a consideration but if you want a truck you really don't have many options. You would think the mid size ones do ok but they really don't, at least mine didn't. I just got a full size diesel truck which can get around 30mpg on highway but usually the diesel engine costs more than the price difference of using a gas engine over like, a lot of years. (20mpg vs 30mpg but $5k more at purchase. Can buy a lot of gas for $5k).
Gods I’d love A small truck like that if they made them, I know this is fuck cars and I agree with the sentiment, but I’d much rather these be everywhere than the monstrosities on the road today
May I introduce you to the Kei-Truck?
We've met, and it goes too far in the tiny direction and can't drive on highways. It's like suggesting a moped to someone who wants a smaller street bike.
So happy with my 80's c10. Once I do the engine swap, I'll be able to run it on biodiesel.
Canoo is supposedly going to make a pickup based on their electric van platform that looks really interesting:
The expanding bed is an absolutely killer feature IMO. Small footprint the vast majority of the time but expands out large enough to fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood when you need that. All the fold-out workbenches are a really cool touch too.
The whole thing feels like the Kei trucks people in other comments are mentioning but upsized and up-powered to be more feasible on US roads.
Just went through Japan and Korea and there are a lot of perfectly capable trucks that aren't giant land-whales
Ford Maverick
I was very interested in the Ford Maverick up until the 2024 model year when the hybrid engine stopped being standard and instead a $2500 upgrade on top of an already significant price hike. That, and the complete inability to find one to buy anyway were what made me give up on the maverick entirely.
A move in the right direction for sure.
Not 100% definite and it's likely going to look a bit weird, but real good chance we're going to have a model based on the transit vans you see rolling around called the 'ford courier' in a year or so but regulations make it difficult to release a truck like that nowadays.
Maybe Telo Trucks might be worth keeping an eye on?
Even from the renders I can tell you that it's probably not going to work out, all other things being equal. Sharing the "format" of like, a cabover, similar to a kei truck, means that it would more readily be suited for smaller scenarios in which maybe turn radius and immediate over the hood visibility is more important, right, but then, its size kind of defeats that, and I suspect that the slant of the window, in order to make it aerodynamic at highway speeds, and efficient, is going to end up putting the driver back so far that it's going to eliminate your ability to actually see over the hood as much as you might want to. Probably the format also has adverse effects on crash safety, as you really want a hood on your car in order to catch a pedestrian, scooping them up by the legs, and also as a crumple zone to dispel some of the force of crash from the front, which is ideally where most of your crashes are coming from.
I think probably also that the conventional american automotive taste might defeat it, as americans kind of, historically, prefer a larger shittier hood on their vehicle. They prefer the sort of idiot dominance that a big hood gives them. Carolina squat style. I could be wrong on all that, though.
I think my biggest concern would probably be that, even though light trucks are the segment of the market which are very obviously viable for EVs right now, the people who buy trucks won't want to buy them, and the people who want EVs won't want to buy them. Implicit in both of those is those who can afford them, which I think automatically maybe selects for people who have the worst taste of all time. Light trucks make sense for EVs, right, you have a rear suspension which is supposed to be beefier for large loads already, conventionally in consumer trucks you're not going to want a longer travel distance because they're not supposed to be these highly efficient vehicles, and going electric gives you a pretty good and easy tow rating and high levels of torque low in the power curve like you might get with a diesel engine.
But I dunno. Basically I think americans might be too stupid for it. Might see more success in japan, but I have no idea what their EV infrastructure is looking like or if they already have kei trucks or larger cabovers which are electric. Fleet vehicles would probably need something like a swappable battery on the cheap, or a fast charging system that doesn't destroy the battery immediately, but the first one probably requires more infrastructure and the second one seems maybe like it would be a limitation of the technology.
Doesnt even list payload or towing capacity. What a joke.
I had one, a proton Jumbuck, great little machine. I'm not sure they are still made but you see them second hand occasionally.
Giant land yacht with the LED permanent highbeams tilted up to blind oncoming traffic.
I would not say that we can completely get rid of cars, or that all cars are evil, but such absurdly big, extremely inefficient trucks with negligible visibility just should be taxed to shit.
At the very least you should need a special license to operate them. They're classed differently to avoid safety and emissions regulations imposed on regular cars, so its perfectly reasonable that there should be different requirements to purchase them and get behind the wheel.
Not even taxed. Outright banned. What happened to governments regulating and revising car safety standards? They can even collect all these back and offer change into more environment and traffic friendly ones, like they were doing 10 years ago.
What happened? Regulatory capture happened.
The guy that drives the land yacht once brought home a couple of two by fours in it from Home Depot, so he feels justified in owning it too. "Sometimes there's just mo substitute for a good truck." When his ac cannot handle the heat, he still won't experience any introspection.
The beds are the same size too. It's not even a better truck than the old one.
Aren't some of these going to a 4.5 foot bed? I once had a bargain basement Isuzu pickup because it was the cheapest car you could buy new in the US (early 90's). I'm pretty sure that had an 8 ft bed or close to it.
Whenever I see some jackass driving these I comment to them how nice and clean it is. Usually they don't get it but sometimes I go a step further and say "wow you must really never do any work with this work truck!" Fucking pussies
I mean... I have worked for contractors that don't even drive their truck off work hours who kept it very clean as a point of professionalism, but then again, they had obvious signs of it being specifically a work trick. So. Your still completely right.
I remember reading a study done in the late 1990s (I'm pretty sure it was ford) that looked at who was most likely to buy a pickup truck so they could market them better, and they found the people who buy pickup trucks fall into 2 categories, one, a blue collar boss buying it for his employees, or two, an insecure man in his 30s-50s trying to compensate
a blue collar boss buying it for his employees
I assume this means for his business, to be used by employees? I can't imagine a boss buying his employees a truck.
bUt ThEy ArE oNlY sElLiNg ThOsE bEcAuSe ThAt Is WhAt We DeMaNd
I have one of those 2 seater pickups from 2010. Best vehicle ever, 7-8L/100km and the same size box as the whale behind it.
There's no way you can get 7-8L/100Km on a pickup in the city. Are you living in the countryside so there's no traffic?
Now, TBH the truck in the back can carry a much heavier and/or physically larger load. Even though the beds are the same length, it’s bed is slightly deeper and likely a good foot or two wider. But how many truck owners transport such loads on the regular? In fact, how many truck owners have anything other than Pavement Princesses?
The truck in the front is more than enough truck for most “truck owners”, they just choose the back option for it’s utility as a penis extender.
You're correct. I managed two raised garden beds with two trips to Lowes in a fucking civic. I moved apartments with one of those tiny pickups.
I have an S10 with an extended cab approximately in the class of the little Tacoma above. perfectly capable truck. fits in a parking space, easily carries a sofa, there's room in the cab behind the seats for baggage so it comfortably carries two people plus gear, I've yet to find a mission my pickup couldn't do that didn't require a box truck.
Canyonero! whip crack
What's really interesting is that the bed size on both of those trucks appears to be the same.
For myself, when I'm looking at pickup trucks--which I sometimes do, although I am unlikely to buy one any time soon--I'm looking at the ability to carry full sheets of plywood.
What is the load each can carry? I ruined the transmission in a small Nissan pickup truck like in the photo hauling old carpet to the county dump.
I would need to look it up for each.
A lot of the older trucks--like the early 80s F150s--were veyr small by current standards, but still had the bed size and overall hauling capacity of current gen F150 trucks. They were very clearly work trucks though, and had very few comforts that you'd expect in a car.
the bed size on both of those trucks appears to be the same.
The length, definitely. But having owned similar sizes with the same bed length (Mazda B2200 & F-150), I can tell you that the larger truck has a much higher max weight capacity, with at least 2-6in greater rail height and anywhere from 12-24 inches greater bed width.
As in, you could put a standard 4×8 sheet of plywood down in each, but in the smaller truck this sheet would be sitting on top of the wheel wells, while in the larger truck it would likely be sitting between the wheel wells entirely.
I get what you're saying, but looking at old full-sized pickups, the overall width is about the same. What's different is the ride height and wheel/tire size. A very high weight capacity creates it's own set of problems, namely that control is compromised when you have no load at all, because there's no preload on the springs.
You may be interested in www.minitrucks.net
Thanks for sharing
I would love a flat faced kei truck for camping. Adjust the bed into a cool mobile camping rig.
Making absolutely positively sure, that if you run a guy over, they can't sue you, because they're dead.
Can we get AI to make a version with increasing recursion into city-sized monster trucks?
That was great. I hope the ai that made that was also ironically and horrifically resource consuming.
The front truck is wonderful. Put a small lift on it and you can literally go anywhere in north America
Holy shit that was scary. I clicked the link without really looking and all of a sudden I was presented with a "promoted post" and I thought Lemmy had enshitified overnight.
Thank fuck it was just reddit being reddit and me being unobservant.
I thought Lemmy had enshitified overnight.
Even if you saw a "promoted post",
- If your app did it, other apps wouldn't have it
- If your instance did it, all the other instances wouldn't have it
- If the codebase added it, there would be a fork overnight
The power is in the people's hands on this one 🙏. Lemmy devs and admins know the best way to grow their site is to do what the users want
Good point.
I don’t know about y’all, but I just cannot get over that driver in the larger truck in the back and how strong, virile, intelligent, secure, and selfless they obviously are.
I saw someone in a Dodge Ram yesterday when I was out of a bike ride. Frigging huge it was. This is in rural England where the roads are really not designed for these sorts of vehicles. I'd imagine that it wouldn't actually fit down some of the narrow country roads because it was so big.
Dickheads. Looking forward to meeting one around here on my tractor and making it reverse uphill into a T junction.
Just an FYI that you can buy used kei trucks from dealerships in the U.S. and they are pretty cheap.
https://boekiusa.com/inventory/new-jersey/paterson/all-vehicles/available
I believe they aren't legal in all states though
God I hope these aren't the only legal states. Those vehicles look great.
Looks like there's either no law in place or they are specifically legal but with restrictions:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/kei-truck-legal-states
Also minitrucks.net
All I am looking for with one of these is LHD, PW, AC and stick. All other non-default creature comforts are superfluous.
But yes, would love one of these, especially if it came with a 2m³ capacity dumping bed.
I don't understand how those trucks can be up to $8,000
I guess because they're pretty old? Most of them are from the 90s. I haven't priced used cars in a while and trucks aren't my thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if American trucks from the 90s are in that price range.
Check out my old forum /key truck
Tell the admin that we or she should start a new forum here.
I got permanently banned... maybe that's a reason to just fuckreddit. Nevermind, don't check it out.
I know that truck
I ain’t no stranger
I know that truck
It’s a Ford fuckin Ranger
Sir this is a picture of a toyota tacoma and a ford f250
Both are too big
To be fair, the first pick up can haul dirty stuff or things that stick out like pipes, signs or maybe something like small boats. It's still hilarious tho that the carry capacity is comparable. Like you could theoretically fit a small pizza oven into it xD
What baffles me about Americans is that truck owners insist that they need to haul things. And I'm always wondering why would anyone spend time and money doing that? Here in the UK delivery is usually free. New bed? Free delivery. New PC hardware or huge TV? Free delivery. Lumber for a DIY project? Free delivery. A palette of cat food? Free delivery! Why the fuck would anyone waste money on petrol and haul shit themselves? The only paid delivery is groceries and it's £1 from Sainsbury's, I ain't driving for £1, fuck it.
That's a Piaggio Ape (or Apecar), which has been made in literally any and all possible shapes and uses. It has been used by generations in Italy and many other countries to haul everything imaginable. The standard variation has an open bed, the one posted in the image is a modified Ape with a closed bed.
It's the Vespa of the pickup truck world.
That Tacoma is what USA got. Check out the Toyota workmate which was born out of a camry with an aluminum tray. Even the 2024 model is modest by today's vehicles. https://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/workmate
And both manage to have the same internal dimensions of a Nissan Micra.
fuck cars
Capitalists hate competition
I have a similar comparison between my 2000 bmw z3 and 56 Chevy bel air with a 74 Chevelle engine and I have tested my z3 mpg and got 29mpg and knowing my z3 tank and bel air tank are the same size and every week of daily driving my z3 has about a quarter of a tank left and my bel air typically has half a quarter left so I guesstimate my bel air gets about 20 or 25 mpg but because I work at a dealership I get to see the mpg of every brand new car that comes in and I've seen 4runners tundras and Silverados that roll onto the lot rated at as low as 15mpg how the fuck is my car from the 50s more eco friendly than a considerable number of new cars on the road today if my car had a overdrive I could probably understand but I have a 3 speed automatic that it came out the factory with I should be needing to have at least a modern engine and transmission to make my bel air comparable but no just having a early 70s motor is enough to get better mileage then new 2024 trucks
Here, you dropped these:
. , . : ; , .
The bel air probably doesn't have any emissions stuff. That's why it gets better gas milage than you expect, whereas the newer stuff absolutely does. Plus trucks are geared for torque, unlike a car, which reduces mpg. A more apt comparison would be to older ('50-'70s) trucks, where you were probably talking more around 9-10mpg without emissions.
Also remember that those trucks are both heavier and less aerodynamic than your Bel-Air. A well-equipped Tundra or Silverado is pretty close to the weight of your Bel-Air and Z3, combined.
I guarantee that your 70s motor isn't really all that eco-friendly. Once all the emissions stuff is warmed up, those trucks are honestly pretty "clean" in regards to tail pipe emissions compared to even a car 20 years ago. Remember that CO2 and water aren't the only things emitted, and while they're worse on the CO2 front, anything without a catalytic converter is going to emit some pretty nasty stuff in addition to all all the CO2.
I used to own a 2012 Jeep Patriot. I swapped the air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs, plug wires, and coil pack. Chrysler sent technicians to me to verify that, yes, as long as I kept the tach between 1000 and 2000, I was getting 35/50 mpg.
I figured this out because I was a delivery driver at the time, and managed to go from Lexington, KY to a town in northern South Carolina that I cannot remember the name of, on one tank of fuel.
On the flip side, the number of people I see towing an RV behind a mid-sized SUV with the front wheels lifting off the ground is astounding. For every guy that bought a truck that never tows anything heavy and never sees any dirt, there's two idiots towing something 4x what their car is capable of putting you and everyone else on the road in danger.
What a comparison. Pavement princess evolution.
If you compare the same type of truck instead of comparing a regular cab mid size truck with a full size crew cab truck, you realize that they're mostly higher than they were before but otherwise their dimensions aren't that much bigger, especially if you compare with the evolution of car sizes. The mk6 Jetta was a subcompact even though it's the same size as a mk5 Passat which was a compact.
I agree a bit more a direct comparison would be helpful. And you're right, that besides height (which is a HUGE issue), their dimensions haven't change much outside of safety norms.
The main problem (besides that height) is what's being sold has changed drastically. In the 90's, a regular cab was the default, now it's special order or not even offered. A 2024 Ranger has way more power and can tow more than a 1995 F-150, yet so many people still get a F-150 to just tow the family trailer, if that.
So let's compare a modern mid-size to a classic full size truck then. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmqo0vj17ytm61.png
Usually if you're hauling anything significant the bed isn't even used. You use a trailer.
The beds are usually smaller than the cabs. It's kinda silly
Eh... I've owned multiple trucks and used them to carry a shit load of stuff including 16' lumber, I only got a trailer when I switched to a car.
You really shouldnt haul stuff that long, even if you have a 8 foot bed.
#murica
Not just Murcia, I'm starting to see these mothafuckas here in Germany too 😑
Those are trucks, not cars.
So tiny truck built on a car platform vs heavy duty pickup
What is this? A truck for ants?!
Which one holds more cargo?
In the bed? It's nearly the same size. New trucks are just jacked up with larger tires and an inflated plastic shell. Size sells even if it's all fat. Yeah- the newer model added the passenger space so you can preserve your manhood when driving the kids around... but bed space hasn't changed much.
It's not necessarily even consumer demand. Truck size and the EPA standards are linked for some reason. Essentially bigger trucks are allowed to have worse mileage.
This story talks about it. There are probably but better sources, but the point remains.
I would actually argue that many truck drivers don't want a bigger vehicle. Mid size trucks came back on the market after a long hiatus. There are even a number of compact trucks available now, like the Maverick, Santa Cruz, etc.
Neither of them seem to be holding cargo
From what I've heard they're the same bed size, but the newer one has a back seat area too
People pussy foot around the answer and give you the wrong answer of the same, but the f-150 can haul up to 1000kg and tow 6300kg while the ranger can haul 850kg and tow a whooping 3,400kg.
The superduty, and it's not even close.
2001 Tacoma: 1,600lb in the bed or 5,000lb towed 22/25 mpg EPA
2018 F250: 3130lb in the bed or 17,600lb towed (not EPA tested, real world 16mpg, Lie-O-Meter usually shows 18mpg)I really don't understand the fetish for small pickup trucks. They aren't coming back, if only due to safety standards. Plus, you can't get in them while wearing a hard hat.
quick edit: my old '95 F150 is a 6cyl. It carries about 800lb of tools and materials every day and gets a real 17mpg on the highway if I keep it at 65mpg. Since it's that old wheezy I6 motor it'll drop to about 14mpg if I push it to 75mph. 15mpg on my normal days staying in town and not driving long distances on those fast highways.
I really don’t understand the fetish for small pickup trucks. They aren’t coming back, if only due to safety standards. Plus, you can’t get in them while wearing a hard hat.
The smaller trucks are primarily for non-business uses like hauling smaller amounts of lumber or mulch, possibly with a smaller trailer in tow. You know, situations where nobody is wearing a hard hat.
Do people really get into trucks with hard hats on?
Tye fullsize has more payload and towing
Q: How many parking spaces does the small truck take up?
A: Exactly the same number as the big one does.
The problem is all cars, not just big cars. Small cars contribute to cities being designed to cater to drivers at the exclusion of every other consideration just as much as big ones do. Small cars require just as many lanes of traffic, and just as much otherwise-useful land paved over and obliterated for parking. Walkability gets ruined by minimum parking requirements just as much whether the cars in those spaces are Priuses or F-250s.
Posts like this are nothing but a circlejerk for small-car drivers to feel smug about themselves when the reality is that THEY ARE JUST AS MUCH PART OF THE PROBLEM.
This is not how the world works.
People don't always get to choose where they live. People don't always get to choose their mobility. People can choose to make good decisions for their situation, like small cars.
I avoid my car when I can, which is a lot, but it would be hard to survive here without a car. And town planning isn't going to change just because someone doesn't own a car.
People buying cars in car-centric areas are not the problem. Regulation on town planning, is. Don't hate on those that do the best they can when you haven't been in their shoes.
Edit: E-bikes are taking off here more than scooters/bikes/motorcycles ever had, so I am hopeful for change. Baby steps.
What I'm hating on is misattributing the problem to scapegoat one class of cars, which is always implicitly motivated by the desire to rationalize driving another class of them.
I don't hate on people who drive because they have no good alternatives while owning up to the fact that driving is bad, but that's not what posts like these are doing.
It's the difference between "yes, I know smoking is bad and I'm struggling with addiction" vs. "hey at least it's just cigarettes and not cigars so it's not that bad."
Those two vehicles are different. The one behind carries more people, can tow greater weight and with the right tyres probably has better capabilities off-road and in poor weather (floods and snow, for example). If the owner only needed it for the boot space then they'd be daft to get the bigger one (and probably wouldn't, due to fuel efficiency) but how does anyone here know what the owners need them for? Judging by looks is rather passé these days isn't it?
Most owners don't need them. Else why is there not a single one of these cars on the roads in the entirety of Europe? Are we so different?
Europe licenses trucks and trailers differently than in the U.S. An American one-ton pickup can tow at a combined weight of up to 26,000lbs in most states on a standard Class D license. The same license you need to operate a Honda Civic. This weight would require a commercial license in Europe, raising the bar for entry.
The lengths of trucks and trailers is also regulated more heavily due to smaller European streets. A vehicle rated to tow a 26,000lb load in Europe would need to be much shorter in length to abide by these regulations. This is why you only see “cab-over” style “lorries” in Europe.
What follows is my opinion on some additional factors:
It’s more affordable for Europeans to hire a professional driver for heavy loads owing to the short distances between destinations. It’s also less likely that your average European owns land or has a need to haul a heavy load to maintain said property.
I don't think the spotless white f250 parked in what looks like a strip mall parking lot in a warm climate is doing any off roading or driving through snow.
You've got a point about towing/load capacity, but the large majority of the time I see those big 4 door pickups driving around, they have one passenger, an empty bed, and no trailer behind them.
boot
So you're not American right? Over here large pickup trucks are literally the most popular selling vehicles. But only a small portion of these people actually use these things for anything they'd need one for. Half of my apartment parking lot is large pickup trucks. They pollute, they're less safe, they're a waste of money, and they crowd parking space.
Even among the minority of people who regularly do things necessitating a pickup, only a small fraction of those need these huge heavy duties.
I'm not mad at the rural guys with these trucks hauling heavy equipment and trailers around out in the country. It's the urban and suburban people who don't need them at all is what gets me. If you need a pickup truck once or twice a year you can rent one for a day for ridiculously cheap.
