"They have to do that stuff first to earn my vote! I don't care if they never had the power to do so!"
-Morons
"They've had 4 years to do something!"
Ughh... Learn how it works people. We had 2 conservative "Democrat" (golly gee look how Manchild is not a Democrat anymore literally...) senators deny everything from 2020-2022, then we lost the house to Republicans who's idea of bipartisanship is to give Democrats the finger all the time from 2022-2024... Sooo what exactly could we do?
Then there's the extra special people who want to "balance" by voting D president and R representatives... Ffs... That shit died when Gingrich started his "my way or go fuck yourself" brand of politics...
i'm just here for the yOuUuUuU sUpPoRt GeNoCiDe!!!! chuds to get triggered and provide entertainment
inb4 "Genocide Joe" and "Blue MAGA" comments
Decisions are made by those who show up, it’s as simple as that.
You may hate it, but the Republicans are definitely better at getting people in line, both literally and figuratively. They turn up and vote even if they don’t like the candidate because… that’s their party. And it’s the only one that they feel represents them.
Meanwhile a lot of Democrats stay home because the candidate isn’t the one they wanted, doesn’t support everything they want, is too old/young, etc. There’s this attitude of ‘if I can’t have my perfect candidate, I’m staying home out of protest.’
I get it. Every voter wants a perfect candidate. But perfect is the enemy of good, as the saying goes.
I always look at it like this: if I vote, I might not always get the outcome that I want, but at the very least I’m nullifying the vote of a person on the other side.
If the other guy shows up and you don’t? That’s how you lose rights.
Be someone who shows the fuck up.
I show up every time and it feels like people still make decisions for me.
What keeps me voting is realizing that real life is disappointing and I’ll never be happy.
Republicans are definitely better at getting people in line
That's also really really strongly due to their efforts at voter suppression for the dems. It's so much easier to show up to vote if you can just hop over to the local polling station, go right in, stand in line for like 5 minutes and leave while many urban voters in blue or especially black areas have to stand in line for hours and might still get turned away because their names have recently been purged from the voter rolls.
Every voter wants a perfect candidate.
I'm so tired of this line, as if progressives don't like the Democratic Party because of a 5% difference in policy opinions.
Our options for President for the past 30-40 years have been fascist capitalist or capitalist willing to compromise with fascists. To those who actually care about worker's rights or the environment of the planet we live on, it's a difference between a candidate who agrees with you on 0%, or one who agrees with you on 2%, but only the policies that don't hurt capitalism.
It's not a case of letting perfect be the enemy of the good, it's a case of the lesser evil IS STILL FUCKING EVIL. Fascism now and fascism in 4-8 years still results in fascism; how are we supposed to be excited to vote when those are the only options we are ever allowed to pick between?
Jesus Christ. Do you know how the Republicans have turned America into a right-wing hellscape?
Incrementally.
They inched the Overton Window right every time they won. Every time some egg said "If nobody's offering universal healthcare I'm not voting" they get to set the terms.
They've been doing it for decades now.
Time to start inching it back.
I get it; the entire system sucks. Even here in the Netherlands with a dozen political parties, you rarely get the government you want. But there's still things you can do even if you really don't want to vote in this particular election.
You can support groups that promote voting reform, like ranked choice voting. You can and should vote in all local elections. You can even RUN in many local elections, since candidates frequently run unopposed. You can help inform others about the voting process and get poorly represented groups to vote. If all else fails, there's always the option of shooting your least favorite politician or doing an Oklahoma City. But try those other things first, OK?
Hyperbole at its finest. Don't vote or vote for Trump and see how things turn out.
Yes, let's reward the Cheney DNC so we can see how far right they'll go and how many war crimes they can do! Remember, they can't take away your rights if there's a (D) next to the name!
Don’t believe the naysayers. No matter which state you are in, your vote is important. Extreme Conservatives have been taking over school boards and imposing their agenda on kids.
Offices like Sheriff, Coroner, Secretary of State, Lt Governor, State Representatives, City and County Councils etc. are all important.
Every Vote Counts!!!!!
Edit: Many important local races will be decided by less votes than updoots I received for this comment.
Offices like Sheriff, Coroner, Secretary of State, Lt Governor, State Representatives, City and County Councils etc. are all important.
Not only are they important, it's exactly how the freaks running the GOP took control of the party. They've been grinding 2 things consistently for decades: down ballot races and the judiciary. It's been wildly successful for them. We are going to have to match if not duplicate that effort.
The shittiest part though is how many of those crazies are running unopposed.
force fed the bible.
Dude...I was talking to my 5yo today. They've learned the pledge of allegiance in kindergarten.
He recited it, perfectly, verbatim.
I cringed slightly at the "under God" part, as I'm a devout atheist (though we've barely mentioned religion at all to the kids).
Once he was done I asked him if he knows what any of it means.
"No. But I can say the whole thing!"
Smh.
I cringed at the part "pledge of allegiance" and then again at "kindergarten".
Americans don't realise how north Korea style that is.
Couple of years back i stumbled over this video, which i as a german think is absolutely fucked up: https://youtu.be/DjX7zoFrd7g?si=6BtMIxqTxtdAYHvi
Quote from the Wiki about the "Young Marines"
The creed that every Young Marine lives by is:
- Obey my parents and all others in charge of me whether young or old.
- Keep myself neat at all times without other people telling me to.
- Keep myself clean in mind by attending the church of my faith.
- Keep my mind alert to learn in school, at home, or at play.
- Remember that having self-discipline will enable me to control my body and mind in case of an emergency.
Its absolute insane what they do to this kids: https://www.instagram.com/means_tv/reel/C7T93trOtg3/
Two "patriots" mad at fact so far.
Reminds me of when I had to have a meeting with the school about some additional speech therapy for my daughter. It was in the morning and cut to the Canadian Anthem playing. Everyone stopped what they were doing and stood up for the anthem. Fucking weirded the shit out of me. I'm 47 and born and raised Canadian. Standing or reciting anything blindly as a group is fucking weird.
I was, um, gently informed by a teacher once that you can say the pledge without "under God" and it sounds natural as it was originally intended. This blew my mind as a young atheist and made me realize how pervasive religion is.
I would consider the daily fascist flag ritual the pervasive thing here. If someone wants to swear by his faith that seems much smaller of an issue to me.
Incidently it seems fascist nationalism and other totalitarian political ideologies to have been at odds with religion in their times and places. See Hitler and Stalins regimes as examples.
Meanwhile my 3yo stepdaughter in kindergarten spends the day painting with watercolors, singing, dancing, playing with others and apparently learning common courtesy (The other day she told me that in kindergarten they're supposed to say "please" when asking for something).
Much as I've wanted to move to the US for the significantly higher salary ceiling as a software engineer, I don't think I could do it to her.
Well, the much higher salary ceiling might look nice on paper, but let me tell you from experience that it is eaten up quickly by higher cost of living. I have been fortunate enough to work for short (one to three year) stints in the US, most of that in the SF bay area. A few years after returning (more or less for good) to my EU home country where I now have a government job (which does not pay as well as industry jobs), one of my former SF bosses asked how much he'd need to pay me in order for me to come work for him long term. It was quite tempting, and I did the math back and forth and in the end arrived at 2.5x of what I'm making now, and that is on the low end. I have a few colleagues and friends in similar situations, and the 2x-3x figure is what we generally agree on. Between health insurance, child care, retirement savings and housing, your cost will be dramatically higher than in most EU countries, and this does not factor in differences in Labor rights and potential visa issues.
The SF bay area of course is extreme, but a low six figure salary puts you just above the poverty line there (so people say). Working remotely living in some low COL state might be an option, but then again you will live in East armpit nowhere Kansas...
Kids do all that in us schools, too. It's not a monolith, but all those things are pretty standard.
Freedom and democracy my ass.
Every time the Dems lose, they go to the center to find voters. Want them to stop going to the center? Then give them overwhelming and consistent victories.
If you think you can change their platform by not voting or voting 3rd party, you're dead wrong. They will just go to the center voter even more. This is not a Mexican standoff that you can win, because they have an out which is worth double (a center voter is both a vote for them and vote taken away from the other party).
How are we supposed to change their platform? Because rewarding them with victories when all they do is go to the center hasn't been working.
You change their policy by giving them consistent and overwhelming victories.
Rewarding them with victories? They never have victories. They have had control of all 3 of presidency, House of Reps, and Senate for 4 of the last 24 years. Or 6 of the last 32 years. Or 6 of the last 44 fucking years. They need all 3 to do much of anything and they basically never have it. So they go to the center to find voters. So try something new and give them actual victories.
If a centre vote is worth double, then it doesn't make any difference if the left are mobilised to vote or not.
With a mobilised left it's left-vote=1 centre-vote=2
With an apathetic left it's left-vote=0 centre-vote=2
Either way the centre vote is worth more so the party moves to the centre.
But if this is wrong, and the left vote is indeed worth more, then why change policies to court the centre, why not have openly leftist policies to attract this game-changing leftist vote?
You can't have it both ways. You can't claim that the democrats have to hide their leftist agenda to gain votes and also claim that the leftist voting block is the make or break of electoral success.
You have this all twisted around in who knows what. They move to the center when they lose. They don't move just because.
Right now the left never shows up. Occasionally the Dems run on a left platform and they lose. Think Gore, think Hilary saying she'll have a map room. After they lose they go to the center to find voters. Now imagine they don't lose every time they run on a left policy? Because the left never shows up.
Occasionally the Dems enact a left policy. Think of Obama's ACA. Thank Biden green energy. Their thanks for this is Obama lost the House of Reps, then lost the house of reps again, then lost both the house of reps and the Senate. Biden lost the house of reps, and polls shows Biden was going to lose. Now imagine they won after enacting left policy. They're probably enact more. But the left never shows up.
If the left wants things to change They. Have. To. Show. Up.
Hide their agenda? They adopt what the
peoplevoters (the ones that show up) vote for. If the left voters show up, then guess what? More left policies will be adopted. C'mon this is civics for kindergartners. You have this so twisted around to justify not voting.
The reality is the majority of the USA is in the center. It's why we usually don't have run away elections.
I would argue that most Americans are apathetic and easily swayed by rhetoric calling reasonable progressive policies "extreme". That's not exactly the same as being in the center, although it does lead to pretty much the same outcomes.
God, I hate fighting people just to get them to vote in a way that makes mathematic and strategic sense.
I have a really hard time staying cool and collected when I discuss politics with people who hold right-wing positions. As a result, I never do volunteer work for political campaigns, because it seems like the only positions available are phone-banking and door-knocking. It's frustrating; I want to help, but I feel strongly that I'd do more harm than good, doing either of those things.
To be fair, you're looking at either getting shot at, going to jail for assault of a nazi, or at best, suffer a heart attack from the sheer blood pressure one gets dealing with those insufferable people. I think not volunteering is probably for the best, haha.
How about putting up signs?
I'm voting Democrat like I always do. I remember being the only non-right wing senior citizen looking person at my polling place for Hilary Clinton when no one showed up. Not with any hope, just so I can say I voted against gleeful hatred.
I'm just pissed that I will never, ever get a vote against market capitalism, as it controls both parties on economic policy and we only get a vote on how to manage the social issue symptoms it causes.
If you keep the left in power your can steer them left, if the right gets in power you reset your progress to 0
Could you walk me through steering them left when they're in power? Over the years the democrats seem to only get more right wing. The thing is, I always thought that you steer politicians through your vote, and if I guarantee my vote to you regardless of what you have done in the past or are currently doing, what incentive do you have to change course in a way that I like?
0 what? 0 A.D.?
Resetting to 0 is a best case scenario for Republicans regaining control
This thread is a shitshow.
American democracy ends in a month if things go poorly. It's done, over, gone. A Mein Kampf reader will no longer have any restraints, no adults at the table to say "no, that's wrong" if he wins again.
DEMOCRACY. WILL. BE. OVER.
Bitch, whine, fuck you bringing this up in thread last 30 days, I live here. So do my fucking friends and family. I don't want to see them or I put in camps to be "deported" for having the wrong skin color, lover, gender, or religion/lack thereof.
Fuck you, vote.
I remember when dems had the presidency and both houses and did nothing stated here.
Manchin and Sinema don't count. Fuck them.
I think they mean Obama's first 2 years
That's more complicated than a simple meme. If you have a party with 1/4 far left, 1/2 moderately left, and 1/4 basically moderate conservatives, it doesn't matter that you have a majority, those moderate conservatives will still hold up any progress, but that's not the fault of the other 3/4 of the party.
They need all 3 for more than 4 out of every 24 fucking years.
kids are force fed the bible
Well that can't be true
Republicans are strongly against feeding children after allBuy our new Trump Bible Mk.39! This new edition features pages made out of pork rinds so your constituents can taste the word of our lord!
Which is why Reps are the ones constantly vying for various "voter security" measures (voter suppression).
Vote like your life depends on it. Because it does.
These new Star Wars films are wild.
Time is a flat circle, except the cycle comes back around again every second. The same conversations over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Had at such frequency, with such vitriol, it is totally indistinguishable from pure noise. It's like a root canal for your brain.
Someone brings up wanting to not vote, on some principle. Could be Gaza, could be them not so slowly capitulating to the right on every issue since FDR got out of office, to the point that we're now running george dubya 2 as president. Then someone says, ah, well, you should vote democrat anyways, because they're better than republicans. Then we get one of two answers, we either get, ah, well, no they aren't, or, they aren't better on this one particular issue that I care about, so fuck it, right. Which is not a super convincing counterargument. Or, we get the real argument, we get the deeper dive into the actual political process, which we all collectively understand to be completely fucked as to basically be unrecoverable, and yet still, somehow, this is a source of constant disagreement. Usually because people who don't know any alternative have deluded themselves into cynically caping for the same broken system as some form of what is basically escapism.
Ah, not in a swing state? You live in a population center? Seems like your vote doesn't matter, better luck next time. Ahh, you don't live in one of like, twelve counties in those swing states? Ahh, well, seems like your vote doesn't matter, either, because of gerrymandering, so, sucks to suck for you. Ahh, well, guess the electorate decided to pick someone different than what you voted for, so, better luck next time. The democrats lost? Ahh, well, if only the left had turned up to vote. You just gotta vote, and then we'll be granted such an overwhelming victory that we will be able to implement all of the milquetoast reforms you've ever wanted! The democrats win? Ahh, well, time to pull to the right twelve more degrees, since we've won the race, and now whatever the voters care about doesn't fucking matter at all. The democrats win, but then the supreme court decides to veto the recount because the voting system in a single state was so totally and completely fucked? Ahh, well, looks like we gotta go kill a million fucking people in iraq for oil money, champ, sorry about that.
It's especially fucking insane because the idea of voting for them in the first place is an acknowledgement that we live in a FPTP system where you cynically have to vote for the lesser evil. Every other qualification and quality that the system has, which makes it worse? That shit doesn't exist. We're taking the most simplified, common idiot stance, here. It is so insane that I struggle to think that it's not just bad faith drudgery. Out of the 350 million, only like 5% of that are people who even approach mattering, and, as we also know, it's kind of dubious even then. So, if those are the only people whose votes matter, and we all FUCKING know that, then why the hell am I inundated with constant removed and moaning and whining about how I just simple NEED to vote democrat or else nooo nooo we're going to be plunged into literally a hitlerian dystopia like handmaid's tail? Look around you, look at what is currently happening.
Oh no! Another democratic senator has decided to stand in opposition to this bill, narrowly swinging the votes around and keeping us deadlocked into an eternal hell where nothing except bipartisan things like border spending, foreign policy, spending on the military industrial complex, banning shit like tiktok, and the basic foundational elements of neoliberal economic policy ever get done. Whatever shall we do? Guess the answer is just to vote harder!
If the democrats did actually get an overwhelming victory, you wouldn't get FDR again. They've been very clear about exactly what their policies are, and they've calculated that position as a way to push the buck as far in favor of their corporate sponsors and themselves as they can get away with, while both winning, and also presenting a constant war to the public where it's a struggle to get anything done. The narrowest margin of victory is actually a boon, in that circumstance. It means they can both run on unpopular policy and they can make it look as though they're trying to get things done and oops whoops they're just narrowly failing. If they somehow got a massive win on that platform, probably through some absolutely massive unforced error by republicans. I don't even know what that would look like, at this point. They would probably all have to collectively catch a disease and die simultaneously, and I think that would probably also spell chaos for the nation. You wouldn't see the dems suddenly run to the left, after that,, because the left would have basically no leverage over them, no bargaining power, no hand in their win. You especially wouldn't see them drift to the left because THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE FUCKING CAMPAIGNING ON. SO THAT CAN'T BE WHY THEY GOT ELECTED. The only way they would get that majority in the first place is basically through them moving to the left to begin with, which as previously described, they will never do, or, worse off, and what they are currently trying to happen, is if like, 40 - 50% of the population suddenly drifted super rightward and became neocons.
No democratic party politician is some secret communist that, ah, once they get an 80% majority, after enough election engineering, enough rightward drift, enough calculations that they can get into power unilaterally, then, suddenly then they'll become a communist. The most you might see is that republicans, after losing so badly, might make a better run at implementation of actually populist policies, but then that's kind of obviously a nonstarter for them because they're ALSO owned by corporate entities and they're ALSO doing this same exact gambit. The idea of getting a huge win somehow also relies on the utter delusion that you can outflank the republican party from the right, or, outflank them with your competence at right-wing policy. You could maybe outflank them in competence, but that's both not a good thing, obviously, and it also wouldn't matter to their core base of delusional evangelical suburban whites that have an outsized amount of voting power and oil money.
The reason some people think this, if they even do, and aren't just assuming whatever cynical position they have to in order to push things around, is because they're idealistic and totally delusional about the incentives the system naturally produces. How people in power go through many filters that all but guarantee they'll be acting in their own self-interest by the time they reach the top. There's no secret leftist that is going to reach a presidential level of power and then suddenly come down and save us all. I'd love to be proven wrong there, but it's not fucking happening.
And you know what's the worst about all this shit? Every election cycle, every single time, at the one time when there is the most political interest flaring up in the population, we are met with this fucking insanely dumb conversation that we have over and over and over and over and over again. It eats up space that could otherwise be reserved for actual serious conversations about strategic voting, how to look into local policies and politicians and how to vote for them, where those resources are, how to organize, how to gain political leverage, how to unionize your workplace, how to stage a protest, participate in a protest, when a protest should even be done and what amount of political leverage such an act might buy you. None of that ever gets talked about. Instead we need like a year out of every four where the only political conversations anyone is capable of having is this repetitive overly simplified bullshit. This ideological poison which totally stymies any serious dialogue. And then turn around and wonder why nobody except the dumbest and most aggressive sacks of shit on the planet, that are obviously just taking out their anger issues actually want to talk to you about this shit, sacks of shit like me. It's insane. I don't understand how we keep falling down the stairs. I don't understand how this keeps happening.
Ive waited 25 years for part 2 of Thursday's Where The Circle Ends. I think you've captured the essence of it and spun it into a new statement of our political process.
You're not wrong fwiw.
Actual analyses done on this topic by Pew, Breugel, and National Affairs suggest this effect is largely not true. When considering the entire electorate, a significant number of non-voters lean Republican or are politically unaffiliated and would not support the democratic party.
Further research indicates that, despite popular belief, higher voter turnout does not consistently benefit either party across the board. Over the past 70 years, there has been no strong correlation between increases in turnout and the Democratic vote share in presidential or midterm elections. This suggests that while higher turnout could marginally favor Democrats, it might not drastically alter outcomes.
Democrats could gain some advantage from 100% turnout due to the inclusion of historically underrepresented groups, but the overall impact would likely be less substantial than expected, as the partisan balance among non-voters is more evenly distributed than commonly thought.
The notion that 100% voter turnout would deliver sweeping political control for Democrats is just a comforting illusion—one that feeds into the fantasy that everyone secretly agrees with you. Both parties indulge in this kind of wishful thinking, convinced that non-voters would tip the scales in their favor if only they showed up.
The truth is that America is fiercely divided, and non-voters are just as politically varied as regular voters. Believing otherwise is just a way to avoid confronting how split the country really is.
Also, popular opinion tends to shift to the right when times are tough and times are tough. You can see this happening in Europe as well, every European country.
The government keeps fucking everyone but the democrats blame the republicans for it, and the republicans the democrats for it, not realizing they are talking about the exact same group of people.
I'm shocked either party can maintain the illusion at this point but thats just my perspective.
“I’m not going to vote because democrats aren’t communist which makes them basically republicans” - average Lemmy.ml user
Jk it’s actually something more like “I’m not going to vote because I’m European”
Eastern European specifically.
Even more specific?
As east as you can get in Europe :)
it’s actually something more like “I’m not going to vote because I’m European”
That or they’re not of legal age.
But I thought Russians were voting in us elections? 🤔
Do you not think genocide is a good reason to not vote for someone else? As far as red lines go, that's a pretty good one.
it is more like genocide vs genocide + whole bunch of other human rights violations.
if you are not planning to overthrow the government by revolution then there is no way to go from these two options to an "ideologically perfect" (whatever that means) government in just one election cycle, needs to be done in smaller steps.
For me it's the genocide.
• Democrats are VERY reluctantly adhering to a trade agreement and trying to negotiate and end to their hostilities.
• Trump said they need to “finish the job.”
bOtH siDeS!
Forgive my ignorance please, I'm not an american. I see these posts often on reddit and lemmy, but shouldn't these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don't vote frequent? Is there any stat at all to show whether such posts work?
I think it's actually mostly a product of the overton window kind of being split, but, not really split in the ways that you might think. It's not so much that each party is getting more extreme in what their actual beliefs are, it's just that people are getting more extreme in their rhetoric, more extreme in their isolation. This, if anything, encourages people they disagree with not to vote. You need only look beneath these kinds of posts to see the sheer amount of people that chirp up, disagree at any time, and then totally fail to be convinced.
No, much like underpantsweevil said, this is purely something that's for the in-group, to make them feel good, to make them feel like they're doing something productive, and more than any of that, it's a way for them to work out ideological insecurities and reinforce pre-existing beliefs. Which further feeds into that rhetorical isolation. Keep that running for 30 years online (maybe more like 10 if you're just considering web 2.0), and you shake out to about where we are now. Continue this for another 10 or 20 years and you're probably directly headed for some absolutely heinous shit as the gulf gets wider and wider.
Pay no attention to them, they want people to vote for someone who supports genocide. They know they’re losing so they’re doing everything and anything they can right now, just tune them out.
So your solution is to let Trump win and make everyone but the rich pay for that genocide, probably destroy us democracy, while all this will change nothing for Palestine ?
A LOT of the time spent being an adult is about making choices where only bad ones are available. You don't have to like one or the other but you have to be grown enough to recognize the difference between an orange hippo flinging shit around and someone who you can trust won't be taking an actual shit at the table during a meeting with heads of state
Love seeing bullshit like this downvoted. It goes to show how common sense and an adherence to reality can effectively stand up against propagandist bullshit.
Both support genocide, it's not just the democrats.
Then with a supermajority the dems will talk about bipartisanship and you'll watch the slowest change ever.
just like obama when they could have passed universal healthcare the dems stalled until the next election cycle
I recall they only had like 8 months of a super majority (if you include Manchin) before Ted Kennedy died in office and was replaced by Scott Brown.
Fuck that. Post trump they can GTFO.
Our voter turnout is shameful. And oh man, the primary elections turnout... (Chefs kiss) Abysmal.
I agree wry everything you said, except please don't say "chef's kiss".
Here's the chef from the muppets to get rid of my shudder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UerBCXHKJ5s
Where meme?
Is this not a modified star wars opening? You know how Lucas loves politics.
I'm sure someone will give you ten vague paragraphs to scroll through, that's like Star Wars, right?
At what turnout does nancy pelosi break bank insider trading?
Americans: ...... what's that? .... (Fox news blaring in the background) ... are you sure?
Fox is one of the greatest atrocities to ever hit the airwaves. I do wonder how much of our recent national damage is directly attributable to it. Not a majority, most likely. But a non-negligible chunk.
Reminder: you can find instructions to check your voter registration here, as well as voting resources for your state.
That site is busted. I'm registered but it tells me it has no record after sending me into a loop of putting in my info. Republicans probably pushed fascist updates to it.
vote.gov is busted?
Or your state's registration website?
That's right reader. YOU are responsible for this nightmare. If only you
recycled your plastics more,used a non plastic straw, shouted at your peers to vote, you could have prevented this hell hole. So hold yourself personally responsible and then push that anxiety and stress onto others without any nuance. Cause if you can prove your moral goodness maybe the world might be heaven without any work other than checking a box.This is not really at all accurate math and it won't change the people happily voting the other way. Or the Electoral College. Or the ridiculous amount of bribes, corruption and party politics.
I hate this photo for so many reasons and I also think voting should be a mandatory holiday. I just refuse to pretend that this idea that it would fix everything because you yelled at enough people to
pray harder, vote more."You" in this context, is reffering to over 200,000,000 individuals.
People don't vote because politicians don't materially benefit them. When politicians provide significant support to regular ass people in way that materially benefit them you will see more voters turn out, not when you whine to them about them not voting. If politicians wanted this to occur, our state reps and their staffers would be in our work places, talking to people, giving them reasons to be involved with the political party apparatus, and providing material aid to the poorest and least represented among us with their own hands. We have bad voter turn out because shitty, myopic politics breeds political disinvestment. This post has it pretty much exactly backwards.
Anecdotally, I have friends from MA who don't give one fuck about politics. Haven't voted in years despite me telling them, messaging them with voter registration status, and locations, giving them every resource they need to make it as easy as possible. None of it mattered. Two of these friends in the last year have told me they want to vote for Governor Healy because they intend to use the free community college program, unprompted. Went out of their way to tell me. Another friend told me they like their state rep because they showed up at a union rally for their union and my friend realized from talking to the politician personally that the rep was a socialist who just happened to have a D next to their name.
What I don't understand is what harm is being reduced by doing "harm reduction"? I get maybe one or two election cycles the candidate isn't ideal but after decades of horrible candidates that increasingly become more right wing over time it seems that no real harm is being reduced. Working class people are are still starving under Biden and likely will under Kamala, simultaneously the Capitalist class continues to aquire obscene amounts of wealth. Meanwhile we're all supposed to go along with the idea that Neoliberalism is the only option while so called "radical leftists" (social democrats and social liberals) are too extreme for government. This election cycle we're offered a candidate that has promised to encourage fracking, likley will not offer any federal protections for women and other minorities, openly supports Israel, and is overall a spineless corrupt career politican that for some reason we're all supposed to nod our heads to and say "yup shes the face of the American left". If we keep doing "harm reduction" soon we will all be reduced to nothing.
It's not about harm reduction, it's a slow boil towards fascism. We're all just frogs in a pot of slowly heating water, except frogs actually will jump out before they boil to death; humans aren't that smart.
Every four years the centrists say "vote for us, because the Other Guy is worse!" And they're not wrong, especially since 2016. But they're also not even pretending to be on our side anymore. Everyone says the Republicans have taken the mask off and aren't hiding their evil, but it is the Democrats running a candidate who is openly working with members of the party of greater fascism, it's the Democratic candidate who is pro
fuckingfracking the earth, and it's the Democrats (as well as the Repubs) who aren't even bothering to lie to us about wanting to stop the genocide that our tax dollars are directly funding.However, I have to say that I'll be voting for the party of lesser (or at least slower) fascism come November. Not because I agree with a single thing they're doing (since their platform is still "We're not as bad as the Other Guy"), but because they threw us exactly two bones in dropping Biden and giving the VP to one of the few Ds who actually looks progressive (where he can do the least damage, of course).
I did:
It's crusty as hell but checks out.
Vote for supporters of ranked choice voting
I don't mind the kids being force fed the Bible. At least they're getting something in their bellies.
I will give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that voting simply isn't convenient or accessible to them.
Offer voting by phone, website, or app, and then see what the numbers look like.
I'm Canadian, and the last time I voted it was at a place that you basically needed to drive to. And take time off work to get to. Super inconvenient, despite my motivating to vote being high.
If it were an option by phone or website, I'm sure far more people would, because they don't have to disrupt their lives for something that takes 5 seconds to do.
I should be able to vote by texting a phone number. Remember how they used to do American idol voting by texting a number. It should be something like that.
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs, and willing to do any of this. They will not I am sorry to tell you that
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs
It assumes Dems are in the majority at a uniform distribution. As though an extra 10M Californians voting for Harris will bend the needle on a race in Ohio or North Carolina or Texas.
Nevermind the "You get a supermajority and can pass anything you want!" is a scenario we already had in 2009. And what happened? Big bank bailouts. Lukewarm regulations. A bloated Pentagon churning out failed project after failed project to the tune of trillions. No DC statehood. No SCOTUS majority. No gun control. No immigration reform. No Single Payer. No Abortion enshrinement.
Republicans only hold power because you let them hold power
True! But only for the leadership of the party. When grassroot Dems turnout in droves, the senior leadership takes office on a platform of Bipartisanship and Cooperation. When grassroot Dems collapse in exhaustion and despair, suddenly you've got a Unitary Executive and a Simple Majority in the House and Senate and a SCOTUS that can tear up the Social Contract at its leisure all stacked in the favor of Republicans.
What does happen if Harris wins big in November? Do Democrats get anything they were promised over the last 30 years? Or do we get a Democratic President more fixated on going to war with Iran and "balancing the budget" on the backs of SS/Medicare than offering an improved quality of life for American residents?
no matter what time it is going to be the second, agian the Democrats are not beholden to the people, they know who's intrests they serve and they lerch farther to the right each election
They only held a supermajority in the Senate for 72 days. The Minnesota seat was disputed and another democrat died of a tumor. Plus, enshrinement was not important back then as RvW wasn't considered to be in danger.
Your opinion is not welcome on Lemmy!
Get out of here! Downvoted.
#VoteKamala
1 what lemmy lemmy.ml lemmy.world lemm.ee lemmygrad please specify [email protected] I need you to be more specific
Second Oh no your down vote hurt me so much how will I ever recover that someone on the internet disagreed with me.
80% of Americans don't support gun control. American Political parties are coalitions among themselves. Even if Ds won by 20 points they won't have the support to do things like implement nationalized healthcare or overturning the 2nd Amendment.
"80% of Americans don't support gun control" is pretty laughably wrong, considering the numbers actually paint a much different picture. According to Pew and APMRL, 58% of Americans want stricter gun laws, and nearly everyone—86%—supports universal background checks. 86%. Not exactly a fringe opinion, is it?
Also, the idea that no one’s on board with any gun control measures conveniently ignores the fact that a majority of Republicans even support some restrictions like keeping guns out of the hands of people with mental illnesses. It’s almost like you made this number up.
Sure, not every gun control proposal gets broad support—take things like an assault weapons ban, which has more partisan splits—but even there, almost three-quarters of Americans are on board with requiring licensing and testing, just like with cars. So, trying to paint gun control as some sort of massively unpopular idea just falls flat.
According to Pew and APMRL, 58% of Americans want stricter gun laws, and nearly everyone—86%—supports universal background checks. 86%. Not exactly a fringe opinion, is it?
They hyper majority of gun sales have background checks involved in them. Universal background checks would either ban the private sale of guns (which SCOTUS would likely overturn) or open up the background check system to private citizens (which will almost certainly be abused from a computer security perspective & will lead to people realizing just how poor the system is).
The point isn't that 80% don't support gun control, it's that each thing on the wishlist isn't widely popular. And even if the actions would lead to a landslide, Americans wouldn't be happy about it.
You would have to define "gun control". As I'm sure that more than 20% of Americans would be in favor of incarcerated prisoners not being allowed to carry guns, which is a form of "gun control".
80% of Americans don't support gun control
Lol, seriously? Did your NRA rep tell you that blatant lie? Source please.
No polling says that. There's like 50-60% support for "more strict" gun control.
70% opposition for a Handgun ban. And only 20% support for an outright repeal to the 2nd Amendment.
So even if the above gathers an 80% supermajority it won't be able to maintain it if it does thing that are widely unsupported.
Most Americans are stupid and think gun control means Guntakeaway
Especially when you look at the US's largest metropolitan areas like New York and Chicago that's really the only knob that hasn't been turned. It's defacto illegal to own a gun in those areas for the common man or woman.
Dear US Americans,
please vote for anything that speeds up the downfall of your country.
Sincerely everyone outside of the USA.
Well it's more open and honest than some things I've heard argued from your instance.
This instance bashing is funny because back than when I chose lemmy.ml, I had no fucking clue about Lemmy and it was the developers instance.
Bazinga based
The easiest way to increase turnout is running a young charismatic candidate with a progressive campaign, like 08 Obama....
Unfortunately we don't have that option this election, probably not 2028 if Harris wins this one, so keep your fingers crossed for 2032 when people might be able to vote for a Dem candidate and not just against the Republican candidate.
Until then we're doing the same dance as the last decade, holding your nose and hoping shit at least stops getting worse. And praying enough other people do the same.
I’m pretty optimistic about Kamala
I don't know if I would say optimistic myself, but I'm willing to give her a chance.
Same.
Most everyone is. The only ones that aren’t are MAGA and single-issue leftists that weren’t going to vote no matter who is running, but they’re already statistically removed from polling data. So… irrelevant.
You're not wrong. Running on progressive policies would mobilize a lot of people to get up and vote. I think people just don't want to hear it right now the only options presented to the public are Harris and Trump. With Trump being the most overtly fascist candidate we've seen in quite a while, those who don't want Trump see Harris, who is running the same campaign as Biden (aka, business as usual) as the only option, because she is the only other option other than Fascism in this race.
Because of that, I think many people see any criticism of Harris or her position as advocating for Trump during this election cycle. Which I absolutely disagree with. I think everyone should absolutely demand more from our representatives. It is on them to galvanize support and get more people to vote, by advocating for legislation that those people want.
I think this mentality that it is the fault of the people for being apathetic, instead of the fault of the politician for not galvanizing more people to vote via popular policies, is misplaced due to the very real fear of the Republican parties policies and lack of influence over the Democratic party.
Instead of politicians aiming for wider public support through progressive policies, we see more democratic backsliding and a continuation of neoliberal policies. Which I think only makes more people apathetic.
Vote Harris. Even with the most pessimistic view, Fascism now is still much worse than Fascism later.
...
So you understand that Harris being more progressive would get more votes and help beat trump...
But because it's so important to beat trump...
You think no one should publicly comment that Harris being more progressive would get more votes?
Biden isn't the candidate anymore, there's a decent chance Harris might listen and give voters what they want Or are you saying you don't think she ever will?
Fuck your gun control. If you'd stop trying to disarm the proletariat you'd have all the other things.
This might surprise you, but we don't want gun control.
We want to send our kids to school with out worrying that some whackjob is gonna loose 200 round of military grade firepower into their classroom.
We want to to be able to stand in line for pizza without it being a life threatening event.
We want fast food workers to be able to run out of French fries without getting fired upon.
We want to be able to sleep in our own beds, in our own homes without worrying that our neighbors will mix up houses, come in, and shoot us thinking we are an intruder.
Thats what we fucking want, and if you can find a way to get all that without enacting very slight inconveniences to the sale and ownership of firearms in the US, then you need to speak up. Otherwise you need to fucking shut up.
*assuming you live where your vote matters
Me voting or not voting for the Democrats here in California doesn't effect the election one bit
I still did it because they ditched the shitty old guy who said he wasn't going to run again, but I'm not pretending I've actually done anything in doing so
No. There are plenty of down ticket races even if your vote for the presidential candidate doesn't matter, it might very well make the difference between a good School Board candidate in your school district or a right wing book banning bible pushing nut job
It might be the difference between a normal city council or a far-right Nazi take over of your city council.
Just. Fucking. Vote.
There are plenty of down ticket races
No shit Sherlock? Post says "if you want to avoid trump" so I'm commenting on that race
But thanks for the condescension, it's always cute
Stop wasting your vote with the duopoly; voting out of fear should not be the norm.
Do not give in to the fearmongering that the establishment and the politicians push on the people every four years.
Our long-term goal should be to continue to build up grassroots movements for the working class; this won't happen in a day.
Our long-term goal should be to continue to build up grassroots movements for the working class; this won’t happen in a day.
Cool, now which is easier to build movements under, a fascist regime, or a moderate milquetoast capitalist regime?
Will throwing your vote away in protest of 'the duopoly' do anything, in this election, to change that or meaningfully contribute to a grassroots movement for the working class?
We have a thousand tools at our disposal. Voting is one - an important one. Tools should not be misused, but each one used in its own unique way to maximize its effect on your goals.
Cool, now which is easier to build movements under, a fascist regime, or a moderate milquetoast capitalist regime?
Let's be real here, the kind of person ranting on the internet about "ThE DuOpOlY" is not actually interested in building anything at all. They just like to stomp their feet, and shout "no fair!" over and over again like the petculant children they are, while the grownups are busy trying to prevent the country from descending into fascism.
We are currently in a fascist regime; both parties are heavily lobbied by corporations that dictate policy.
People continue to struggle more and more under both parties, while they play political theater to continue to divide us.
Voting outside the two-party system will help establish that people do have standards when voting.
Voting is one - an important one.
Yes, and a good percentage of the populace decides to stay in and not reward the duopoly with their vote.
Hey vote and you can accomplish alllll this wonderful stuff, all the stuff you want.
You: wHy dO yOu WaNt mE tO vOtE iN fEaR.
Hey vote and you can accomplish alllll this wonderful stuff, all the stuff you want
Voting is a necessary but not sufficient condition for accomplishing things. For example, I voted for Obama to get some kind of single payer and that didn't happen.
Plus there's things I want that no amount of voting will accomplish, like the dissolution of nation-states.
^ THIS… is what MAGA wants you to believe. ^
