Look, NATO is bad, that's why it's absolutely necessary for anti-imperialism purposes that Russia invades its neighbors before they can get into NATO!
I am still amazed at the 12 dimensional chess thought process of invading a country that didn't join NATO to discourage joining NATO. All that socialized vodka in the maternity ward must be getting out of hand.
This is logic amped up to 11 right here, folks.
I'd be glad if NATO didn't exist.
It would mean countries wouldn't feel threatened by their neighbors, and no invasions would happen.
But until that is the case, NATO is necessary.
I would much prefer every country in the planet being in NATO.
Any country attacks any other country? Literally the whole world goes to defend it. So no invasions are possible.
It wouldn't work though. Wouldn't take much time for alliances to form that agree to not follow NATO'S rules.
I'd like your comment more if it said: "I’d be glad if NATO didn’t have to exist"
And I'd like your comment more if it said "Ricky is the bestest person on all of the world" but we can't all have what we want.
Are you my hundred year old Jewish great uncle? How'd you get on here?
Every species has weapons embedded into its body, some organisms are specialized members of the species, such as queens and babies, but all species spend a portion of their precious energy budget building weapons.
Given how ruthlessly evolution prunes out anything that doesn’t give an advantage, I think this gives significant information about the nature of existence.
Hostility appears to be as universal as entropy, and just as manageable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_massacre#False_leads
NATO isn't there to defend you, it's there to serve the interests of a bunch of rulers and elites
That might be hard to grasp but sometimes the interests or rulers and elites do align to some degree with the average person in their country. Most rich and powerful people have a lot of investments that are worth significantly less when unpredictable things such as invasions happen that disrupt trade.
I can't hear you with that imperialist cock brushing against your tonsils.
Sure I'm a NATO apologist: I'm sorry NATO is necessary because Russia is such an antagonistic fuckwad.
Russia had a choice: play by the west's rules, or play second fiddle to China. They chose the latter unfortunately for them and for us.
Actual quote from Vladimir Putin:
Dear NATO, we regret being imperialist bastards. We regret coming to Ukraine. And we most definitely regret that the VMSU just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!
Oorah! Lol.
The world was deeply afraid of Marxism. When Russia experienced a workers-led revolution in 1917, Western powers were terrified of the spread of Marxist ideas and the potential threat they posed to the capitalist world order. In response, several Western states, along with their client states, sent their armies into Russia, aiming to overthrow the newly established worker-run government under the Bolsheviks. We attacked first, in an effort to suppress a system we feared.
This antagonism continued and evolved over the decades, culminating in the Cold War, where tensions between the Soviet Union and the West defined global politics. The Cuban Missile Crisis stands out as a key moment in this conflict. In fact, it was the United States that, in violation of international norms and against the Geneva Convention, installed nuclear launch sites along Russia's borders in Turkey, heightening the threat and contributing to the Soviet response of placing missiles in Cuba.
Historically, it's clear that we have been antagonistic towards Russia, driven by a fear of communism and a desire to maintain Western dominance. This pattern of confrontation has had long-lasting effects on the geopolitical landscape, contributing to the strained relations that persist today.
Dont take my word for this stuff, you can easily find information online, in text books.
Not to defend Western European imperialism in Russia because fuck that but no one did more to destroy the newly established worker-run government than the Bolsheviks. I'm assuming you're a ML--unfortunately they don't allow factual discussions of history, so you'll need to read some history outside of the thought bubble to learn the truth.
Gentle reminder that blocking the entire Lemmy.ml instance has made this place a lot less … tankie
Can you do that yet without your instance just entirely defederating?
No. User-level instance blocking is not the same as instance-level defederation. User-level instance blocking is equivalent to blocking all the communities from that instance. AFAIK you'll still see posts and comments from the blocked instance in other communities. More problematically, the blocked instance still influences your feed via its votes.
Most apps have a instance block in the settings.
Ah yes, that paragon of leftist virtue...
...*checks notes*...
Muammar Gaddafi?
And they wonder why they don't get taken seriously.
The point is not that Gaddafi was a leftist, but that NATO is an evil imperialistic offensive organisation that overthrows governments
Of course Libya was never a NATO mission, was done by two countries (I include the UK as part of the USA at this point) that certainly could have coordinated even if NATO did not exist. France has always been the most NATO sceptical country in the union as well.
Oh and let's not forget that blaming NATO allows them to forget the real reason France got involved there. But why would they want to distract people away from Sarkozy and his neoimperialism? Let me check what's he got to say about Ukraine... Yup, checks out
Yeah my money is on the 60.000.000€ (IIRC) Sarko illegally got for his electoral campaign from Gadaffi (donations and such are very regulated in France and that was clearly very illegal), and then Gadaffi started to get vocal about it... ... and then suddenly he got caught bu French forces and oupsie daisy boom.
Nothing to do with NATO.
I got banned on a lemmy.ml sub for pointing out a post was misleading, that's it.
People here complain about reddit mods being power tripping, but my experience on Lemmy has been equal if not worse. Ml and hexbear being obvious examples, but I've even gotten 7 or 30 days bans, with no warning, for stupid shit that I've seen plenty of other people do, in a news sub and aboringdystopia, obviously because the mod disagreed with my opinion, they were just using some minor violation of the rules to justify banning me.
A lot of folk either have forgotten or never experienced self regulated communities that existed prior to social media.
It is a culture shock to see disagreeable or stupud takes instead of them being removed from their sight and feeds without engagement or even knowledge.
The difference is that the mods in many cases also run the instance. If anything that could be worse for power tripping!
But you can always remove those instances from your Lemmy experience. Not always a great option if there's only one good community for something (e.g. news), but supposedly people who agree with you do the same and make a new community. Given nothing can last forever and even your own instance can grow terrible with time (as Reddit subs sometimes did), it's nice to be able to hedge your bets.
Example, nothing of value was lost defederating from hexbear.
Oh it's absolutely worse here.
Mods have removed my comments for dumbest shit.
Edit:
https://lemmy.world/comment/12050823
My removed response:
I've never bought any Apple product, you triggered ball of catpuke. I'm just pissed at Android manufacturers copying Apple without offering any pros of iPhone. 5 year old iPhone still updates to latest iOS. Good luck trying to do that with 5 year old Android. Keep raging at the mere mention of Apple though. Sounds like a wonderful existence.
I got banned for posting a ProPublica article in their World News community.
I think I was banned from some communities there but I don’t remember which ones and haven’t missed them. I’m probably better off.
lol before I realized what ml meant I made a comment that I thought that communism had never happened yet on earth but that it could one day. You wouldn’t believe the rage and attack from dozens of people who were inconsolable.
They also got mad when I said that there are only a few actual leftists in government in the US. Turns out that everyone is one, dontchano
Your first sentence is not wrong; as I understand Marx’s writing. Essentially it is not possible to go from agrarianism straight to communism without first building an industrial society. That’s how Russia / USSR, China etc don’t “technically” count.
I’m referring more to the fact that Marx envisioned the populace rising up. What really rose in places like Russia and China was a group of self appointed elites who were really just reactionaries.
Tankies get mad because they believe that their utopia already exists and everyone else is an idiot for not ascribing to the same.
Your first sentence is not wrong; as I understand Marx’s writing. Essentially it is not possible to go from agrarianism straight to communism without first building an industrial society. That’s how Russia / USSR, China etc don’t “technically” count.
Don't worry, Lenin et co said you could do it if you believed extra super hard and gave all the power to a small clique of intellectuals. Lenin, like Jesus and the Gospels, takes precedence over prior teachings.
That’s how Russia / USSR, China etc don’t “technically” count.
The Lenin government did experiment with a direct transition to full communism, but found - as Marx predicted - that they didn't enjoy the industrial surplus needed for a post scarcity society. So he rolled back to the New Economic Plan, which Stalin inherited. Stalin went full tilt on industrialization, which upset a lot of agricultural workers and ended with him putting down a revolt in his native Georgia and tendering his resignation as a result.
The party wouldn't accept the resignation, so Stalin had to come back and win WW2 as a result. Russia avoided the fate of many of the Eastern Bloc states thanks to that rapid industrialization.
After the war standards of living surged, in large part thanks to the Communist model. The kind of communal lifestyle possible under pre-WW conditions wasn't attractive anymore, so Russians kept industrializing over the next 40 years. And when they couldn't match the US + Japan speed of development, they fell over in the attempt.
But to say they weren't "doing Communism"... The quality of life in the Eastern Block improved remarkably quick and access to resources was broad based and egalitarian. The economy was centralized and planned. The proletariat dictated the political agenda.
Certainly, at the time, American economists could tell the difference between the US and Soviet systems, even if they doggedly insisted central banks making private loans was freedom while central committees allocating jobs and resources was tyranny.
It's only after the USSR collapsed that we got an earful about "Not Real Communism".
"Read theory and you would know what I'm talking about."
That is a common thought terminating response to any critique of communism. That being said, I learned to flip the table. Tankies talk about theory, so mention empirical and practical results. They tend to either shut down or ban you.
inconsolable
i like the idea of using inconsolable to refer to grown ass adults. Pure comedic value.
Cheers!
…what does the ml stand for?
Marxism Leninism
They are the original Lemmy devs which is why I joined there. Horrible mistake, reactionary idiots who project their insecurity on others while thinking that they are the only ones who figured out the secret sauce. Pretty much exactly sovereign citizen level quackery.
look up the word “tankies” to get an idea
Those... aren't even mutually exclusive opinions? NATO can exist for more than one reason.
There is only one good opinion at any time, citizen. The correct opinion (my opinion) can change any time, but any different opinion is doubleplusungood.
Yup. I was raised in communist Poland and I'm really tired of this. Some people are just allergic to history books and open speech. Looking at you teenage armchair communists. Grow up.
Well if NATO exists for more than one reason and serve multiple purposes, then claiming NATO exists only for defensive purposes is wrong. Since it also exists for other purposes. Then it is also wrong that it is necessary harmless to Russia. I believe that is a logical conclusion?
But as soon as you express such an opinion you get branded a putinist and downvoted. That is why the lemmy.ml community protects itself from
nato expansionlemmy.world users.This question is so hot because it goes towards Russia's justification for invasion, and for the claims of Ukraine and US to be completely innocent in the causes for the war. IF nato not only serves as a defensive organization but also serves as a tool for regime change then Russia does at least have a shitty justification for a preventive war - to prevent more arms building in Ukraine. And the war clearly has shown that Ukraine with enough weapon supplies by the west is a serious threat to Russia.
You do NOT have to be a tankie to be angry about the "brinkmanship" of the US, Ukraine and nato - and Russia. You can be angry at all parties. But the overwhelming propaganda or dogma on reddit and lemmy.world is that only Russia is to blame. This makes any diplomatic solutions impossible.
That is WHY the propaganda is so strong and why this opinion that nato eastward expansion represents not just defensive purposes is not allowed. Because otherwise you might end this war diplomatically.
Now the overwhelming majority of users will not give one inch on this position. You see how they make fun of this very serious and painful topic. I feel empathy for all the ukrainian and russian lives lost and get angry at the jokers preventing any honest discussion about the causes and possible solutions to this war. It is as painful as the israel/palestine conflict. So .ml and hexbear DO need to protect themselves from these kind of "nato is only defensive" crap because frankly, it is painful.
In this "post-truth" sense there is little difference between liberals or "lefties" and MAGAts. They deny historical facts or logical arguments. Except that the magats are weirdly also pro russia because of trump. That does not mean ml users are "pro" Russia or tankies. That is just a slur. There is plenty to hate about Putin. Especially his interference in social media and elections is abominable. But the neoliberals are no better!
What happened in Libya according to them?
Poor Gaddafi was attacked by the corrupt NATO, to the disgust of the rest of the world (except that it was resolution by the UN security council).
Thanks for the reminder, happy cake day
All the happy cake days to you! What will you do with your time without them? ;) EDIT: i.e., without lemmy.ml
Except there is strong evidence that Western powers (predominantly France, the UK and US) created the fiction of Gaddafi being a global supervillain and then used NATO forces to enact regime change in Libya, under the pretext of "preventing civilian casualties". In fact, the real objective was to secure Libyan oil reserves and open the country up to western markets.
NATO is often used an extension of Western foreign policy. To pretend it is solely a benevolent peace keeper is just as simplistic and naïve as saying that everything the West does is pure evil.
One air campaign in Libya (permitted by UNSCR 1973) > fourteen Russian invasions
Checkmate, Westoids
I’m just waiting till the deferation from lemmy.ml
Only 30 days?
I'm shocked it wasn't a permaban, honestly.
They're being reasonable 😏
If you ever need to have a dialogue on any subject and want a reasonable partner, don't worry - you can just have that morning coffee and you'll eventually shit out better choices than the entirety of ml, hexbear, lemmygrad and a bunch of other cuntwaffles combined.
im pretty sure some of the intentionally satirically idiotic arguments i've had have simply had a better construction to them than what these instances tend to produce lol
Time to block an instance :p
Hard agree. The Fediverse would be much healthier if more instances defederated Hexbear, lemmygrad, and lemmy.ml. They constantly spread propaganda for violent dictators.
I find Lemmy.ml users tolerable, mostly. At least, not significantly worse than other instances. It's the admins and mods that concern me. It's why I avoid .ml communities like the plague.
Time for other instances to defederate. Blocking an instance on the user-level unfortunately isn't the same as instance-level defederation.
Blocked ml months ago, couldn't have made a better choice. Their user's comments still show up though. Only ml communities get blocked.
I give individual users the benefit of a doubt but I also long ago blocked it and several other tankie instances.
I have the "boost for lemmy" app, it has wildcard filters. I used to to get rid of feddit, after about 20 of their users spammed me with slurs for not speaking german on an australian instance
They love to pick and choose who to enforce their rules against.
Mine's not even as interesting. Lemmy.ml rule 4: no ads/spamming. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
how dare you critize the regime comrade
So what is nato then?
Everyone keep asking what is NATO.
But nobody is asking how is NATO.
Whomst is NATO?
Why is nato?
Real answer or NCD answer?
I've literally never heard of the word "real", NCD it is.
It's a list of words for each letter in the English alphabet so they they can be spelled unambiguously over the radio.
Honestly, can't we defederate from that shithole. I don't see why we need to get a post every other day just to ruin everyone's day
Well at least people got educated on left side extremism. I think it puts things in the broader perspective and maybe even someone decided to research these topics some more.
It makes you wonder about communism as a whole. Does it always lead to totalitarianism? Etc
It’s healthy to see all the nut jobs from time to time and reflect on your own steps.
If your views align with the nut jobs for example that makes you wonder hmm something is wrong.It makes you wonder about communism as a whole. Does it always lead to totalitarianism? Etc
considering the answer to democracy is literally "well you can vote one in" as we have recently found out in america.
Yeah probably. If even the most rugged institutions are not impervious to this problem, i think it's fair to safe that no institution is.
It’s healthy to see all the nut jobs from time to time and reflect on your own steps. If your views align with the nut jobs for example that makes you wonder hmm something is wrong.
my rule of thumb for politics is that if you have an opinion it and you are wrong and you should stop holding that opinion. Politics is vastly too complicated for even a lifelong PHD thesis to be capable of understanding. Let alone some dude who gets all his news from idiots yelling at a camera online.
The best thing we can do is to prevent ourselves from getting to extreme before it starts.
This is how it's supposed to work on the Fediverse. If you don't like an instance, you defederate. I take no position on people at lemmy.ml, but unless people are rage addicts the best thing to do is ignore instances you find objectionable.
Can't, it drives engagement.
dont know why lemm.ee the instance am on is federated with hexbears
i was recently banned from like 5 different ML communities, no clue why, hi ML admin or mod if you could tell me why that would be cool.
It was probably something stupid i did, i never read rules. (in my defense, they're always the same and i'm never going to follow them lmao) But regardless, silent bans are weird.
Don't worry, there's no reason to read the ML rules since they don't follow them anyway. 90% of bans there have nothing whatsoever to do with the rules.
However, I will say it's generally good practice to read the rules in other places.
based, generally i'll read rules if i'm ever posting actual posts, but since i comment 99% of the time, it really doesn't matter IMO.
You've provided totally inadequate context while seeking shallow bandwagon validation from idiots. It's not logical. And, you've made a bad faith request. Yet, logic and good faith discussion are prerequisites to the study of philosophy.
The core prerequisite for participation in communist discussion is a comprehensive understanding of Capital. If one demonstrates they didn't do the reading then they'll be told to shut the fuck up so as to not interfere with classroom discussion.
I've answered your bad faith request. It's more than you deserve. You should be thankful. But, you're likely angry. No good deed goes unpunished. I'll not even see your response.
You’ve provided totally inadequate context while seeking shallow bandwagon validation from idiots. It’s not logical. And, you’ve made a bad faith request. Yet, logic and good faith discussion are prerequisites to the study of philosophy.
i have no more context than anyone else here lmao.
The core prerequisite for participation in communist discussion is a comprehensive understanding of Capital. If one demonstrates they didn’t do the reading then they’ll be told to shut the fuck up so as to not interfere with classroom discussion.
is ml a commie instance? Am i just stupid and didn't notice this? I just thought it was the other main lemmy instance. It just happened to have a lot of tankies by chance.
you're also not an ML instance user, so i'm not sure how you're answering this lmao.
I’ll not even see your response.
ok
So, I blocked the instance about a week ago, I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
I only wonder how the people/government of Mali feel about them using their country's top-level domain for.... Whatever it is they're using it for.
I dunno enough about Mali to really say, but I'm pretty sure that Lemmy.ml has nothing to do with that country... For them the ML means.... Something else entirely.
Well, yeah. Kinda like how most .tv domains don't really have anything to do with Tuvalu, or .io with the British Indian Ocean Territory, etc.
youtu.be is not a Belgian website.
Yep. It happens a lot. Most of the time it's benign, fairly neutral websites.
As the other commenter mentioned, youtu.be is another example.
I don't have a problem with people using TLDs for other countries or anything, my curiosity is whether Mali cares that it's essentially a site glorifying Marxism–Leninism owned and operated by people who don't live there, and apart from their glorified ideologies sharing an innitialism with the country code, the two don't necessarily have any overlap....
Just seems like a PR problem if people take to using your country code TLD to spread propaganda that you disagree with, because your country will be regularly mentioned when discussing the site.
I don't think anyone here will conflate Lemmy.ml with the people, beliefs or properties of the people of Mali, but all it takes is for one extremist tied to that site, to do something horrible, have a spotlight shined on lemmy.ml, and one over-enthusiastic journalist to mention that .ml is the country specific domain for Mali, and all of a sudden, otherwise ignorant common folk are associating acts of terrorism and violence with your country.
The government of Mali and specifically the department that runs the TLD, has the power to revoke their domain registration... I'm just saying.
It stands for Marxism-Lenininism I aasume.
My understanding is that .ml was cheap (maybe free?) and the Marxist-Leninist thing was a happy coincidence/backronym.
Reminds me of the story of people's .mil emails going to the .ml top level domain and the Malian government asking the US to fix their shit
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the least.
Oh I thought it was machine learning all this time
You need to give up on the whole top level country domain thing, that ship sailed before most of the hardware that current;y supports the internet was even installed.
I mean, sure, lemmy.ml is absolute trash on fire and being distributed by tornado but using Mali's domain is the LEAST of their sins.
Why should I give it up?
Mali literally has authority over everything that uses .ml
The domain name system is largely a dumpster fire on good days, but there's still a clear line of authority for domain names
Wait. Isn't World News part of Lemmy.world? Not Lemmy.ml?
There are about 15 instances with World News communities currently federated with my instance. https://lemmy.ml/c/worldnews is the biggest one of them all.
You can tell this one is .ml by the way the ban happened.
I don't even understand the screenshot. it seems like a ban but reads like someons opinion about their opinion about someone else.
The turquoise text is the comment that op made which prompted a .ml admin to ban them.
The bottom text is the mods reasoning.
Yeah I get that. I think its because the banned comment is sorta sarcastic so its generalizing the opinion of the thing which then with the ban just gets sorta wierd to read. It feels like the not not not of pinochio from shrek.
Goddamn it thank you for reminding me why I stay off of Lemmy. 😡
Lemmy is a big place bro... this is lemmy.ml a notorious tankie pit where they glorify various communism regime and excuse their genocides and war crimes.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/8419342
more than just a few instances it would seem
even one of the mods is a commie
PSA: Not every commie is a tankie
I was using them interchangably
Read the username wrong at first
Everyone's just throwing away their masks left and right. Left is becoming full-blown marxist/leninist, right is becoming actual nazis.
Hey, as a non-authoritarian leftist, I can assure that MLs are just a subset that really wants to pretend they're spearheading the Left to fulfill their bloodbath fantasies. There's lots of us that don't like them and aren't like them at all.
fulfill their bloodbath fantasies.
as if there's not enough killing all over the world and in our very schools, these fucks always want some kind of civil war.
sick fucks.
Anarchists: Are we a joke to you? Yes? Fair enough. We'll be over listening to folk punk and reminiscing about Dr. King being right in his Letter from Birmingham Jail.
Please be sure to draw a clear distinction between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism.
Like, MLs are doing literally what Marx saw in 1848 and spent the rest of his life firmly against - you can't just will a revolution into existence. Even if the world would be better if you could. You can make a good go of it, you can die nobly in the attempt, you can even maybe overthrow the current elite - but what comes next is not going to be socialist, it's not going to be a worker's state, and very likely it's not going to last. No matter how hard you believe in the virtue and intellect of your vanguard party.
You are a brainwashed propagandist with that comment. Good for them. Can you explain to me why the US and NATO did not intervene with the genocide in Georgia? Make that TWO genocides. Who did? How much territory did they take? You know that counts in your inaccurate figure just as an example.
Americans are too stupid for the Internet.
Lmao of course this place is ran by hardcore war crime apologist PugJesus who advocates for jailing Edward Snowden and Julian Assagne.
Tell me more about how October 7 was Legitimate Resistance(tm). God knows you can't get it up unless civilians are getting murdered.
Boo fucking hoo, you were wrong and come crying here about "tankies"? You are the exact same, just on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Get some self awareness. NATO is a bunch of warmongers who managed to get Putin to do the greatest PR coup for them just as they were losing significance - and now they could be important because at this moment Russian regime is the greater evil. But instead they do fuck all in helping Ukraine to a decisive victor, proving again that those shitstains just want to prolongue the conflict to line the pockets of their buddies in the military industrial complex. Disgusting fucks, all of them!
NATO is a bunch of warmongers who managed to get Putin to do the greatest PR coup for them
Lmao. I refuse to believe that any sane, adult person can hold this opinion. Nobody's THAT fucking stupid, right?
Nobody’s THAT fucking stupid, right?
Narrator: "They were, in fact, THAT fucking stupid."
I love that NATO is even Putin's puppetmaster.
It's funny how NATO members continue to throw more and more money into the alliance like they're about to be attacked tomorrow. Russia can't even conquer a third of Ukraine, so they're hardly going to be much of a threat to everyone else.
If NATO is indeed a defensive alliance and the deterrent works, then there's no need to put so much money into it at the expense of domestic needs for each member state.
It's a fantastic revenue stream for arms manufacturers who can keep getting fat contracts to make more equipment. The day the war ends it will be a disaster for them.
Make sure you don't pull a muscle performing all those mental gymnastics.
That is indeed the way it appears that the west is viewing this conflict. A great way to make extort a lot of money from taxpayers for "not enough to live but too much to die" support for Ukraine, and it's perverse that the powers that be don't even blink at sacrificing the lives of tens of thousands of Ukrainians for that.
And come to think of it - a shorter conflict would also mean less Russian lives lost.
Capitalism is murderous. :(
