Apple keeps flogging 8GB of RAM for its Mac computers but it's still a dead horse

I needed a cheap laptop for audio, so i decided to pick up a second hand m1 air a couple months ago.

It is honestly pretty impressive for the price, I generally don't have issues either. Everything is snappy, and it handles multitasking fine. Its even faster than my $2000+ PC at several things, which frustrates me greatly.

However... When running ableton live (or presumably anything that involves heavy image, video, or audio editing), 8gb of ram is honestly not enough. If you push it too hard, it hangs for a second, then the offending app will just close.

Also there is a weird delay in factorio, absolutely unacceptable.

I have a old HP Elitebook with 8GB ram with Windows 10 and even on Windows I don’t notice slowdowns for daily tasks. Yes the machine swaps but because of the SSD you don’t notice much performance decrease. However, because it’s constant swapping the lifetime of the SSD will decrease and that’s exactly the problem of 8GB machines these days. Yes the machine stays fast (Windows or OSX it really does not matter) but there is extra load on the SSD.

Don’t believe Apple marketing bullshit that 8GB is enough because of the “super duper advanced memory management” of OSX. If it really was enough then Apple would not release MacBooks with 16+ GB ram. The only reason that the 8GB MBP still exists is to sell more 16+ GB machines.

The thing you didn’t notice is that you significantly decreased the service life of the permanent storage on the device, because it ABSOLUTELY dips into swap far more frequently than models with more memory, and all high-speed SSD technologies that I’m aware of have limited lifetime write capacity before performance and fidelity start to degrade.

The MBPs (MBAs too in my opinion, but that’s more debate as it’s the “entry level” laptop) should have a minimum ram config of 16gb. 8gb MBP is honestly a really dumb spec level to purchase anyways - if you want something with that little RAM in laptop form, get the MBA.

To be fair

NO! No fair.

I delivered a season of 4k animations for a network show using Motion, AE, C4D, Ps, AI…all using a base model M1 Mini (8/256), with zero problems.

Of course more would be better, but unless you’ve actually used one, it’s hard to imagine how well it works. I tried mentioning this in another post, but it’s all Apple hate all the way down here

To be honest, I can still do most of my work on my old Core2Quad 4GB DDR2 PC, when using Linux.
And as long as I setup my swap properly, I can also keep as many Firefox tabs open as I want , as I tend to forget tabs (running out of brain memory) before I run out of RAM.

But I just like my 64GB RAM.

People are, just not PC spec heads that like to compare numbers. Practical use is the only real comparison.

It’s not that it’s more efficient, it’s simply used less than in conventional PC architecture.

It's not that you're wrong from a philosophical perspective with that, it's that you're factually incorrect. Memory addresses don't suddenly shrink or expand depending on where they exist on the bus or the CPU. Being on the SoC doesn't magically make RAM used less by the OS and applications, as the mach kernel, Darwin, and various MacOS layers still address the same amount of memory as they would on traditional PC architecture.

Memory is memory, just like glass is glass, and glass will still scratch at a level 7 just like 8GB of RAM holds the same amount of information as.....8GB of RAM.

The article actually quantitatively tests this too by pointing out their memory usage with Chrome and different numbers of tabs open.

Looks like you didn't read the article.

What a load of nonsense. You've got no idea how a computer works. RAM isn't just used for passing data between cores. If anything that's more the role of cache although even that isn't strictly accurate.

Whether a system has a discrete GPU or not doesn't really factor into the discussion one way or another, although even if it did having more RAM would be even more important without a discrete GPU because a portion of the system RAM gets utilized as VRAM.

Guessing you haven't rear the article. That quote is from apple not author, he is actually 100% against it throughout the article.

This is a truly terrible article.

Like why not test these things? This just sounds like ai generated garbage.

That being said, 8gb is an abysmally low amount of ram in 2024. I had a mid range surface in 2014 that had that much ram. And the upcharge for more is quite ridiculous too.

I know it's pc ram but I bought 64gb of ddr4 3600mhz for like $130. How on earth is apple charging $200 for 8!!!!

For browsing the web 4 GB is enough, unless you do some multitasking. Still I wouldn't buy a computer with less than 8 GB of RAM nowadays.

The low ram and storage are to drive you up 2 tiers.
By the time you go "256gb isn't enough storage, so I'll pay 10% more for something useable", you are pretty much at the stage of "if I'm spending this much, I might as well get the ram upgrade as well". And suddenly you are paying $500 more.

That's just the reality we're in now. All components will eventually ship as a single bundle, and there's nothing you'd be able to do. Obviously there are speed and latency benefits to this, but it comes at a cost of a colossal amount of e-waste with hardcoded serial numbers. This only works in their favor, because the groups of people you've described will just return to the shop, and buy a more expensive model

If you have a laptop that supports that, yeah. Which you should, but definitely isn't always true.

Used to be true on Macs...good ol' days

That seems too cheap.

The irony is that it's arguably the opposite, since the GPU and CPU just have a shared memory pool, rather than having dedicated memory and the shared memory pool.

So if you're watching a 4k video, you might have lost a gigabyte or two just for VRAM.

That was just after face planting in a Scarface size pile of cocaine as is standard procedure with all apple marketing teams

iPads don't really multitask so it is super easy to hide the low ram with swap.

We’re talking about laptops though. I was just using tablets as a comparison point.

Even then, 32GB might be cutting it a bit fine for production or professional work.

Most heavy games do need 32GB ram. 16GB RAM will overflow to page file and we all run QLC SSDs, it's gonna get corrupt over time being in constant writes.

Who let the apple marketing people in here?

Android has a garbage collector, meaning it requires an additional 2GB of RAM of overhead to keep things smooth. iPhones run significantly hotter than Androids, and consume more energy to achieve their performance gains.

It's not true to simply state "one is better than the other". There's various metrics in which either one may be better.

And, since the ram is soldered to the fucking mobo, you can't upgrade it yourself. It's a ridiculous and craven strategy for a company already nickel and diming their customers.

but the cultists still love them.

They've being doing this for a very long time, and they do it on all their idevices too (with storage).

It also is perfectly fine for running a few minute long compile cycles - without running into thermal throttling. I guess if you do some hour long stuff it might eventually become an issue - but generally the CPUs available in the Airs seem to be perfectly fine with passive cooling even for longer peak loads. Definitely usable as a developer machine, though, if you can live with the low memory (16GB for the M1, which I have).

I bought some Apple hardware for a customer project - which was pretty much first time seriously touching Apple stuff since the 90s, as i'm not much of a friend of them - and was pretty surprised about performance as well as lack of heat. That thing is now running Linux, and it made me replace my aging Thinkpad x230 with a Macbook Pro - where active cooling clearly is required, but you also get a lot of performance out of it.

The real big thing is that they managed to scale power usage nicely over the complete load range. For the Max/Ultra variants you get comparable performance (and power draw/heat) on high load to the top Ryzen mobile CPUs - but for low load you still get a responsive system at significantly less power draw than the Ryzens.

Intel is playing a completely different game - they did manage to catch up a bit, but generally are still running hot, and are power hogs. Currently it's just a race between Apple and AMD - and AMD is gimped by nobody building proper notebooks with their CPUs. Prices Apple is charging for RAM and SSDs are insane, though - they do get additional performance out of their design (unlike pretty much all x86 notebooks, where soldered RAM will offer the same throughput as a socketed on), but having a M.2 slot for a lower speed extra SSD would be very welcome.

Ok Gramps, we need to get you to bed now

Wamp wamp so true

You're in the minority actually.

Why buy an overpriced Mac and not use it to its full potential?

Just for the logo on the back?

The fun think is that I don't think apple would mind abandoning these people. Most of them would just buy a new device.

Poco x3 pro 8/256, and it have 3.5 jack and microsd slot, i still using one, in fact I'm writing from it right now

Ohh that’s sad to hear. I was thinking to get the Samsung Galaxy A14.

I agree with this. Pixel A series are pretty much the smoothest android experience for cheap. Plus they have a pretty good camera as a bonus. The low end Chinese phones and even the Samsung A series just don't quite do it for me. I think OneUI was made for faster hardware.

I don't have one of the ARM ones, and after using Macs for like 20+ years, I barely use the ones I have. But that 16 hour battery life and performance is really nice.

Mac OS X used to wow me in the 2000s and even 2010s; it was definitely why I used Macs. But nothing about it is all that interesting to me anymore, and in some ways it's gotten worse.

Lol $1000 for "decent"

There's the thinkpad x13s. But its pretty slow. Should be snapdragon elite laptops coming out this year tho.

I did the same thing. It's one of the cheapest upgrades you can get for a PC, but Apple will charge triple the actual cost to maximize profits.

Puny mortal! (128GB)

64GB^ddr3

Not cost effective by any means, but then again none buys apple for cost effective anything. Some people just the brand it seems 🤦

How long is the average laptop usable, though? I still have a 2012 MacBook Air with 4GB of ram that gets daily use with no visible issues. I don’t feel like it’s slow. I don’t feel like there’s much (the only issue is usually flash) daily business it can’t do (mostly web/email/pdfs/virtual meetings or classes/excel/word). I’ve never had it repaired or upgraded. I’ve also had about 4 windows laptops since about 2011. My primary desktop is a windows gaming PC and I complain more about its quirks than I do about the Mac.

If the alternative is Windows which is increasingly filled with ads or Linux which shifts the burden of computer administration to a user who might not have a clue about what they're supposed to do if their WiFi doesn't "just work", paying for a managed walled garden that doesn't try to install candy crush without you asking for it isn't such a bad option.

Pretty sure it'd still drastically outperform every single other 8gb ram laptop out there though, perhaps even 3x faster. Not saying it shouldn't have a ton more ram though, 8gb on anything expensive is pretty rude.

If you ran teams on the CERN supercomputer I'm pretty sure it would use up all the RAM as well. The more you have the more it seems to eat up.

Very much like Chrome.

The NON-USER-REPLACEABLE SSD.

Generally good at supporting phones but not at supporting computers, a 5-6 years lifetime is unacceptable from an environmental point of view.

I experienced it last week when I turned on an old Mac with MacOS 10.7. It can't run anything. Everything that you download doesn't run anymore, Firefox and chrome are limited to some ancient version like 40 that breaks every modern website and due to some expired SSL root certificate you can't access any website that's using let's encrypt which is a big chunk.

And it's like this not from recently but at least 5 years, so it was put in a corner and never turned on anymore until last week

It can theoretically be updated to some newer version but the updater to 10.8 has been delisted from the store so you have to alternatively source that.

For comparison, a PC that was purchased the year prior to that Mac is running the latest version of windows 10 without any issue (except slowness due to the 1st gen core architecture)

I have a Linux workstation and a MacBook. The arguments about keyboard and trackpad are personal preference at best. You can use whatever external devices you want with the Mac. I used Logitech mice with mine too.

If you want a package manager on Mac use Homebrew. It’s better than you’d expect for a system that doesn’t include a native package manager. I use docker on both Mac and Linux and can’t really tell the difference.

I bought my last MacBook with 64gb ram. It was probably overkill but I didn’t see any reason not to since you can get one refurb for essential 50% off. It sucks that you can’t upgrade the ram, so make sure you have a good idea what you need when you’re buying the machine. Anyone buying one with 8gb is essentially buying a Chromebook. That’s not adequate for a power user like you.

No, and we all know it, but it's still going to haunt him for the rest of his life.

Yeah they've spent $1 extra on manufacturing costs, but charge you an extra $2,000 for the privilege.

Who doesn't love a 20,000% profit margin

I said, want to have a Mac. Anyways you are right.

I'm fairly sure my computer uses more than 8 GB of RAM every time I much as look at the Chrome icon.

Macbooks, even these low spec ones tend to outlive other laptops substantially. The better build quality and higher resale value keeps them in use much longer.

The argument these devices are e-waste doesn't make sense and doesn't track.

And wanting a macbook is a perfectly acceptable reason for getting a MacBook. I just get annoyed when people try to argue that it's an actually sensible decision.