The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.
An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he's in isn't accommodating his vegan diet.
Welcome to the American corrections system, abuses like this and worse happen every day and we just don't normally hear about them because the defendants aren't famous like this one is
It's funny because the little shits like him who think they are smarter and above the law, are the same people who are going to power trip on him in jail. I really hope he spends the rest of his life there, see what it's like to be shorthanded for once.
Most of the fruit, veg, rice, beans, oats, grits, bread, salad, condiments, pasta, juice etc. on the menu would be vegan any way. There might some mixed with milk or butter, but most is just going to be boiled, baked or fried in oil. Plus all the stuff from the commissary.
I think it's crazy the number is people here who think that jail/prison is supposed to primarily be about punishment. Do they not understand the concept of recitavism?
Former Christian fundamentalist here. I think it's a religious thing, actually. It's very common in conservative religion in America to believe that there are good and evil things and people, and all you need to do is punish evil things and people. Any problems that exist are punishment from God for allowing evil instead of punishing it. Everything will be solved magically by God once you and your society are "righteous" enough (disapproving enough of evil), something which will never actually happen because this will literally just make things worse, providing more evidence of God's wrath.
This religious belief has influences far beyond the fundamentalist religion it came from, and it really helps explain why so many right wing movements are so contradictory and hypocritical.
Everyone else is out here thinking things like "if there's a problem, we need to figure out the solution" while a solid third or more of the American people is literally thinking that they just need to hurt the right people and God will fix it.
It is certainly odd, though I bet that's going to change. For some strange reason people love talking about that stuff and even though it hasn't appeared in this thread yet it probably will soon.
Edit: it already happened, someone decided to say that they wondered how chewed he's going to be. You all just can't help yourself with the rape jokes, can you?
What does the idea of punishing people even solve in the first place? It doesn't help them, in fact it actually hurts them. It doesn't teach them how to be better people, so they're likely to do the same thing again. Oh yeah and it wastes resources on punishing these people, resources that could be going to regular people but are instead essentially being wasted to torture someone instead of trying to help them.
I bet somebody's going to come out of the woodwork and try and argue that prison helps people somehow, by punishing them and making them scared, though I've found that making people scared is the wrong way of going about making them into a better person, because scared people just like animals will react, and it's not pretty when they do.
Punishing evildoers doesn't hurt me, it only helps me. What does hurt me and millions of other Americans is when looney-bin cultists like you take the worst offenders and exploit them to manipulate and bully their victims and the victims' supporters into caving to your insane demands just so you can make yourself feel better. That's what actually hurts people.
It’s because most people saying this shit live in America where all prisons are for pure cruelty and punishment, not rehabilitation.
You see, here in America prisons are an industry that generates profits for stakeholders. True rehabilitation would cut into their profits, therefore they do everything in their power to ensure you never leave, and if you do they will leave you with enough mental trauma and behavioral issues that you will return.
Corporate media propaganda ensures americans continue to support this shit just like all the rest of the fucked up shit around here. Thanks corporate America!
I keep seeing the sentiment in this thread that if you go to prison you basically deserve whatever happens to you, which is a fucked up stance in itself, but more importantly:
Why do the cows, chickens, etc. deserve to suffer because someone is in prison? Does that make sense in any moral framework? How would you feel if we bagged random people not guilty of anything and forced prisoners to watch them tortured "on their behalf" as a form of punishment? That's pretty much the same situation ethically and everyone would agree it's fucked up.
Yeah I admit I'm very torn about this. On the one hand this idiot kid managed to blast through 50 fucking BILLION dollars of other peoples' money and shows zero remorse. On the other hand, I'm wondering what the ethical responsibility of the state is for accommodating prisoners' dietary needs from medical conditions, religious observation, and ethical/personal preferences eg vegetarian/veganism etc. I don't like punishing people beyond what the court orders, and it is really disturbing when people cheer and joke about things like prison rape.
Seems to me it shouldn't be too difficult to make a vegan "meatloaf" type food that checks all the boxes. Sort of like ordering the Kosher meal on an airplane. It's not gonna be great but it'll get you there.
It's the same thing with the trans woman Jan 6th rioter. She deserves punishment, but it should be humane. No one should be forced to serve a sentence where they don't belong, and we shouldn't be OK with it in any instance just because we disagree with the person. We should take the opportunity to improve things for everyone.
(We can still appreciate the irony of a trans person supporting Trump/Republicans and then being upset that their gender is not being recognized, then asking MTG and that lot for help. It shouldn't happen, but it is ironic.)
I'd quickly be tempted to adopt a personal conviction requiring medium rare sirloin, loaded baked potatoes, whiskey/cokes and similar fare. If there's no economy of scale, that's not my issue. Respect my religion. It's very specific.
I'm confused about what you mean by animals suffering because someone is in prison. Don't they suffer regardless of if someone is in prison? Like, the animal would die and be eaten, regardless of where the meat is sent.
I'm pro animal rights and all that btw, I just don't get the connection you are making here.
The meals will (I assume) be allocated on inmate numbers, so the animal will be reared, killed, transported, then thrown in the trash because someone doesn't want to eat it.
More generally this is the weird 'opt out' culture of food, where vegan is considered the exceptional position, which is kinda stupid, in my opinion.
I don't think prison should be punitive, but I REALLY don't think jail should be punitive. You haven't been proven guilty of anything when you're in jail.
All of the food served in prison/jail is dogshit and it's not ok. Edible food is a human right. People with ethically based diet restrictions should be protected the same way that religiously based diet restrictions are.
Belief in a make believe sky-daddy doesn't make one persons ethical dietary choices more important than another's. Maybe the Satanic Temple can step in and help out the incarcerated vegans. That seems up their alley.
How about: at least in my town at police department holding cells, they make you pay and they go get takeout. There’s no legitimate reason to not offer a choice of takeout
I have noticed for a supposedly progressive network, there are a lot of posts recently on news stories about prisoners supporting capital punishment and wishing prison violence on them. Very odd stuff.
I'm hesitant to say PINO but there is definitely a cadre of folks who want (for example) food and shelter for the homeless and for their enemies to starve to death in a ditch.
I think it has more to do with rich people getting away with murder because they are rich while homeless people getting the worst punishment for stealing a loaf of bread or sleeping on a bench.
And the rest of society getting sick and tired of it, so I see their sentiment.
I don't believe in capital punishment though, let alone a death sentence.
Do you really expect a jail to cook things in butter? If they could get away with it, they would probably cook things in waste oil from the next garage.
True enough, but it was just an example. More likely something like mashed potato will have milk or other dairy. Even vegetarian nutriloaf might not qualify as vegan.
Point is not everything that starts out vegan ends up vegan on the plate.
He is Vegan. Irrespective of how we feel about what he did, the failure to address his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable. If his belief was rooted in ideas of a higher being or afterlife, everyone would acknowledge how fucked up it is. Not that I'm planning on going to jail anytime soon, but if I could not be able to abide by that daily practice of my life it would be incredibly distressing. Unless he is doing it for environmental reasons (I don't know) he likely seeks total animal liberation, and you're going to force feed him stolen animal secretions? Coproducts of dead baby cows, blended up chicks, and beings bred into painful bodies? The alternative is malnutrition? I would highly consider Jainism or Sikhism on this fact alone. Fuck you if you think he should be forced to go against these ethical beliefs. It is 100% a human rights violation IMO.
That's a very sensationalist way to phrase your point and makes you sound fairly biased in the matter.
In the law, religious belief is a protected class, but dietary choice is not. A reasonable debate could be had about if it should be protected. The prison system nor the court room is the right forum, because it needs to be decided by the legislature.
Veganism is not strictly a dietary choice. Look into ethical veganism. In the UK, Ethical Vegans are a legally protected class. I understand they are not legally protected in America - this does not require me to change my position at all. I made it clear that it's my opinion, and I presented how I would personally feel to be in his position and what I might consider just to have that ethical belief respected.
It's a lifestyle choice based on moral ramifications. I understand that you're not the legislative but it totally should be a part of the same protected class.
I think the true argument is that dietary preference is a bit of a slippery slope. One could easily claim that they abide by a diet of only steak, truffles and lobster.
Obviously that is not feasible for a prison kitchen to fulfil. I do agree though that an effort could be made. I'm not sure if religious preference is catered to (no pork f.i.) and I could even see a point of not serving meat at all.
But the bottom line is that you can't let the prisoner make food demands like that and be considered unethical if not fulfilled. Medically there's not really a case here. Water and bread sounds a bit brutal, but it's not likely that he has no choice at all, it's also a bit of an act that his legal team will no doubt will utilise in court to claim 'inhuman circumstances'
It's not a slippery slope. Vegans have a saying, veganism is the moral baseline. Other prisoners who want to eat steak or chicken or hot dogs are being catered to for their preferences even though those actively cause victimization. But somebody wants to not victimize animals with their diet and all of a sudden it's "fuck them". None of you have thought about this at all.
I also think it's for show. Having worked in a jail kitchen, they serve lots of cheap food like beans and rice but also have vegetables and other foods that'd be considered vegan. I suspect what's happening is that he isn't getting gourmet meals like he was previously accustomed to, so he's refusing to eat anything else to gain sympathy points.
I agree, only because it's about veganism that there is a supportive reaction. If they were not respecting his Christian/Muslim beliefs for example no one here would bat an eye, especially here.
He has been Vegan since at least April 2021. He was not arrested until December 2022. It's not a circus show. The dude's ethical beliefs in regards to Veganism are not in question. They need to be respected.
What he has been accused of doing. He has not been proven guilty. I’m not saying he’s not guilty but until proven so, whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?
Yes earlier in the thread it was very mob like. That's me just placating I suppose. He has not been proven guilty and they're already starving him. Doubly wrong.
It's not about the prisoner. Why are you victimizing animals to feed the other prisoners in the first place, but then acting like it's unreasonable not to do it?
There are plenty of items on a typical prison menu he can eat without eating "baby cow", or "blended up chicks" as you put it. There is no need to live off bread and water when there are vegetables, fruit, salad, juice, rice, beans etc. I'm sure this will be pointed out to him and also the limits of what a system will accommodate - dietary or religious needs. Also, his ethics are why he is in prison in the first place so boo hoo for him.
They are required in most civilised nations. You're just too used to America's punishment focused prison system, look at the prisons in Scandinavian nations and how they treat their prisoners.
Can the state require you to eat the body or bodily fluids of someone you affirm has rights to bodily autonomy, someone we know to be wholly innocent because they lack agency?
Theft from animals is unethical, while theft from humans is ethical (based on his actions and your logic). From this we can extrapolate that humans aren't animals at all.
No what's not okay is that they aren't forcing him it eat meat against his will. This is prison, not a vacation, he needs to be punished not catered to.
That's what happened with Elizabeth Holmes, too. She defrauded both her investors and the patients using her products. She was only convicted of one of those. Guess which one?
Anytime a big corp gets caught fucking with poor people worse they get is a slap on the wrist fine maybe 10 of what they profited and maybe 1-2 years max in prison time for a few fall guys.
I don't believe his choices are THAT limited. Most prisons will have a self-service line with a choice of boiled veg, rice, beans, potatoes, pasta, fruit, grits, oats. Also, and just generally, boo hoo for him. Funny how his ethics extend to what he eats, but not who he steals from.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I was arrested when I was protesting in El Paso. They just brought trays of slop to us in our cells three times a day. It looked close to an '80s elementary school lunch but slightly lower quality. It really wasn't reasonable. I was found not guilty because Americans are supposed to be able to protest. The FBI felt otherwise when they cut off part of the tape proving my innocence but got caught doing so without consequence.
Federal institutions have a national menu that they're meant to provide. I've linked to it elsewhere and if inmates don't receive it then there are avenues to complain through. And to be clear I'm sure even in the best of circumstances the food still sucks, but there is a menu and there is choice. It is also VERY clearly spelt out in the MDC Brooklyn inmate's handbook on page 13 what the food is and an inmate's options regarding it and any religious / dietician exemptions.
IMO this is SBF being a precious entitled asshole in prison thinking he's above the conditions that everyone else in there is subject to. "Oh look at poor me I have to eat bread water and peanut butter". Meanwhile reality says he's lying. This is merely the latest incident of him attempting to control the narrative. He can't tamper with witness so he's holding a pity party and we're supposed to care.
Jail should accommodate a vegan diet, but it also seems like they are to some extent. PB sandwiches are food. As long as he can cobble together a nutritionally complete diet, it isn't cruel to have boring meals. Obviously JUST peanut butter sandwiches won't do it but I have to think they have potatoes, beans, rice on the menu too, stuff like that.
I think that should go without saying, and the real question is why isn't it the default? Why are we bothering to give prisoners (inherently relatively expensive/less sustainable) meat or dairy to begin with?
Crimes aside, punishment should not include limiting a person's diet or basic food options. No one's asking for gourmet in prisons, but basic fruits and vegetables should be the baseline.
The only reason this is being talked about is because he was a billionaire. Boo hoo poor guy stole 7billion Dollars, and now can't have the lifestyle he was used to
It's funny how we want to be treated as human beings but when it's about someone we perceive as "the enemy" human rights be damned. "We" should not be treated unfairly, but "they" deserve whatever they get.
Spot on. The very reason I subscribe to the left wing is because I believe everyone deserves a decent life as far as possible, including people who've (allegedly) committed fraud.
I would prefer if everyone is treated equal. But it is clearly shown that rich people get special treatment. If you can let bring everyone up, bring the special people down
Is it accurate to call him a former billionaire? My understanding is that he essentially embezzled ~$50 billion investor money and never truly owned it himself. Didn't he take a ~$1 billion "loan" from the company for example?
I think it's more accurate to say "he had signature authority over accounts with billions in them" not "he was a billionaire" but idk..
A second attorney for Bankman-Fried, Christian Everdell, also said in court Tuesday that serious Sixth Amendment need to be addressed because Bankman-Fried has no way to prepare and participate in his defense. Everdell said that he has had no access to discovery materials for 11 days and that there are only six weeks left to the start of the trial.
[…]
But he was remanded to jail this month over allegations of witness tampering. His trial is set to begin Oct. 2. On Aug. 11, Kaplan denied his request to delay detention pending an appeal.
Starting to look like it wasn't a smart move meddling in the case, Sam. Almost as if actions have repercussions.
Honestly, as a vegetarian myself (not vegan though), lots of airlines these days have a single meal that satisfies Vegan, Vegetarian, Gluten Free, Low Sodium, Low Sugar, etc.... I'm sure it saves them lots of money, but hot damn are they disgusting.
So let him buy his food from the commissary. The prison doesn't serve potatoes? You can live off potatoes alone for a long time. Is there juice, cereal, rice, or beans? I find it hard to believe there isn't. He's clearly exaggerating the limits of his diet.
It's jail. You don't get to go where you want, do what you want, wear what you want, or eat what you want. You don't get to make choices about your life. That is part of the punishment.
You should look at what prisoners get to eat in France. Here in Spain prisoners wear their own clothes, only guards wear uniforms.
I believe the idea of prison should be that you are punished by you're freedom of movement being taken away. Not by being forced to eat inedible food or food that goes against your moral code.
Therein lies the philosophical question, is prison about punishment or rehabilitation? Dehumanising these people and telling them their beliefs and practices don't matter isn't going to make them want to return as a reformed member of society.
Prison is both punishment and rehabilitation. The essence of it is to teach the prisoner to follow rules. Eating what you are told to eat is child-level rules following and he still can't do it.
Exactly. While he might have to find alternative sources of protein by forgoing meat there is obviously going to be ample stuff on the menu he can eat. If he claims he's living off bread and water, he is either an extraordinarily picky eater, or more likely just a liar out for some sympathy.
You haven’t been proven guilty of anything when you’re in jail. it should not be punitive. Innocent until proven guilty.
When he gets to prison, by all means go ahead (I mean I believe in rehabilitation not retribution but that's personal); until then why not treat him like a human?
Who here said anything about depriving him food?
He is depriving himself, because he is fixated on an idea that is 100% ideology, compared to just taking the vegetarian option.
It's not a punishment. Jail is the result of alleged bond violation through witness tampering. The same meal that every other prisoner eats there is made available to him.
He's not deprived of nutrition. If there was a medical reason that requires a vegan diet (like the prescribed adderall), don't you think his lawyers and the media would be crying about it? No, his veganism is most likely a lifestyle choice.
Still on nutrition - he may dislike it, but he can survive on boring food.
Yeah, I object to that as well. It may not be easy having empathy for a billionaire vegetarian but ….
When my kids were little, they took tours to meet first responders and see the facilities and equipment. However when police got to the hold facilities, they decided it was a “scared straight” opportunity. Part of their standard procedure was to steal make you pay to buy you disgusting greasy swill their choice of kids meal their quantity at the nearest fast food place. You have no choice, no reasonably healthy options, no allowance for anyone not used to all that grease, and you have to pay for it. I guess spending the day half starving while sitting on the toilet is “justified” for people who haven’t even had a chance to face charges yet.
…. Oh and they were practically gleeful to point out that after a certain time Friday afternoon, the magistrate wouldn’t respond until the next week, so you would be stuck.
But is that fair? Shouldn't prisons be places you can have all of the amenities you enjoyed in life before you broke the law? What are our taxes being spent on if not fiber internet and Netflix in every cell? Signed, SBFaltaccountNERDSlol
But I can't be the only one who thinks these people defending him are extremely sus. They were in other threads too, like the one about the baby-killing nurse; they were in there defending her, making similar arguments to the ones found in here, and brigading and downvoting anybody who disagreed with them. I think it might be connected. Could they be from some kind of trolling group, I wonder?
You go to jail to be held before trial. He isn’t even guilty yet even tho we know he is.
We all know he broke the law but it hasn’t been proven yet. So I guess the question is, is this how all people deserve to be treated before it’s been demonstrated through due processing that you are guilty?
What happened to innocent before proven guilty?
Don’t get me wrong this guy sucks but there’s something to be said about the fact that he’s in JAIL and not prison.
It's really not fair to reduce a philosophy like veganism to "choices for stuff" and denying your right to follow it, which is legally protected where I'm from at least, to "get reduced". It's not like he's complaining that he can't change the channel on the radio.
I'm all for improving conditions in the prison system. However, with how bad we know it is, expecting a vegan diet is a bit laughable. I'm surprised they offer vegetarian options at all.
I disagree. It's a moral issue. What if someone was wrongly convicted? Force them to go against their moral system? I personally couldn't bear to eat the flesh of an animal. I get this dudes a criminal but like, I don't think the issue itself is laughable.
Even if they weren't wrongly convicted. Murderer happens to follow any one of the religions that forbid pork? What's feeding them bacon going to accomplish, exactly? It's purely out of spite when the object is supposed to be to discourage reoffending. Treating people humanely makes them act human. Call them a dog and they'll act like a dog.
Even the more progressive can be like this. People have weird ideas about human worth being something measurable and thus rescindable.
There was nothing to disagree with. I didn't say I don't think they shouldn't supply vegan. I just know what the US prison system is like and wouldn't expect them to. It's fucking criminal gladiator college. There are some prisons that barely feed the inmates and make them need money for commissary food to not be hungry constantly.
I'm sure where SBF is being kept is a white collar low security place where they treat them better. They're still treated like caged dogs though.
At what point do you consider something not an animal? Is it a size consideration? Like, you'd eat a hummingbird but not a chicken? Warm versus cold blooded? Is it vertebrae versus endoskeleton? Would you eat ants and crickets?
Because I get the whole no animal by products, but fermented foods are animal by products. Most breads have yeasts in it, those are animals. Beer and wine, same.
...expecting a vegan diet is a bit laughable. I'm surprised they offer vegetarian options at all.
"Surprised" is the wrong word, but this thread has me wondering why all prison food isn't vegan. Never mind respecting people's religious/ethical/whatever preferences; why are we wasting meat on folks who don't deserve it? Just making everything vegan would be (a) the simplest "lowest common denominator" of dietary restrictions, and more importantly (b) the cheapest/most environmentally sustainable option (disregarding subsidies to the meat/dairy industry).
(On the other hand, this is half rhetorical because I'm also remembering about a documentary I watched about Alcatraz, which mentioned that the food was intentionally good in part to stave off prison riots.)
Here is a sample federal prison menu. It's hard to see any day where he wouldn't have a significant choice off that list. Him claiming he only eats bread, water and peanut butter is just a play for pity and attention.
Damn, sometimes I just make shitty ramen and some frozen berries for dinner if I'm too tired to cook something real and don't have leftovers. Prisons have some decent sounding meals.
Some of the replies here are absolutely vile: if you're going to endorse locking people in cages for years if not decades and pretend that's a justified response to anything short of their being an immediate physical danger to the people around them, then the least you can do is accommodate their most basic needs and ethical positions.
Prisons are pitched to us as places of rehabilitation - somewhere to pay penance and right wrongs before returning to the community, better for having served the time. I think it's a deeply disingenuous characterisation which serves mainly to let people avoid facing up to the reality which is prison's purposeless and ultimately harmful cruelty, but it is the dominant characterisation nonetheless.
But, if we blindly accept the rehabilitation narrative, then how exactly do we expect to rehabilitate people by fracturing them psychologically? By forcing them to violate ethical commitments which are sacrosanct to them, by alienating them from their communities and forcing them to abide by a clockwork dictatorial regime without any semblance of comfort or dignity, by leaving them to rot miserably for years?
No, and no wonder prisons are factories for broken people and recidivism if this is how people think about them. Get a hold of yourselves.
Also, before anybody retreats to the flimsy position of "but prisoners shouldn't eat better than schoolchildren" or "but what about the poor" - yes, those people are also underserved, and we have resources available to improve conditions for all of them too. All that's lacking is will.
Last but not least, if you concede that you care about neither the incarcerated nor the society they come from and will return to in time - then there's also the question of why animals should suffer? If people aren't even worthy of being afforded their basic preferences, then why should the default be the option which necessitates the lifelong suffering of sentient beings on an industrial scale?
Glad to know veganism is more important than justice.
He doesn't have the right to be a vegan in prison. He's in PRISON. Being justly punished. When you're in prison, you don't get to live the way you want barring basic human rights, and being vegan isn't a human right, it's a lifestyle choice.
Get over that fact and take your cultists out of the thread
I don't especially care whether there's a formally enshrined right for incarcerated people to be vegan - I'm saying that if we continue to insist upon locking people in cages with an ostensible objective of rehabilitating them and not simply performing retributive cruelty for its own sake, then we must treat the incarcerated people with diligence and respect as baseline. You can't expect for well-adjusted people to emerge from a system of institutionalised dehumanisation, cruelty, and uncaring indifference.
I don't think it's unreasonable to respect an incarcerated person's ethical commitment to not exploiting animals, and to be diligent in providing food of a reasonable nutritional standard which doesn't violate those commitments to consume. Peanut butter sandwiches do not fulfil that criteria by themselves.
I'm not sure what you mean by "my cultists" - I didn't bring anybody here, and I found this thread independently through my own feed.
In order to preemptively address some of your assertions in reply to another person in this comment thread:
This thread is not about you, not about vegans
It's not about vegans, no.
It's about respect for a person's ethical commitments in a scenario where you've deprived them of the ability to satisfy those commitments themselves. My argument would not have to substantively change in order to comment on a person whose religious dietary restrictions aren't being respected by the available options, to give an alternative example.
It's true that the final paragraph of my original response speaks specifically to animal liberation, but that's because I'm passionate about that issue independently of this one. That said, I think my original reply would remain perfectly sound with that paragraph removed if you'd prefer to take it that way.
the fact that a dude who stole billions
I don't think the crime or characteristics of the incarcerated are especially relevant here. My argument would remain unaltered if the incarcerated person was poor, from a marginalised background, and in prison for much less exceptional reasons.
is more important than justice and literally everyone else
I don't think that whatever justice there is to be found in the prison system is nullified by respecting incarcerated people's ethical commitments, and I think that applies to all incarcerated people.
Unless you think we haven’t noticed you’re hiding behind a debate about the importance of punishment, the viability and legitimacy of the prison system and abuses of the U.S. prison system in a situation that has nothing to do with them because you’re trying to promote veganism.
I'm a prison abolitionist first and foremost, and I thought that'd be clear from the overall thrust of my original post - but apparently not. Respect for the incarcerated, their humanity, and their ethical commitments is very much the compromise position.
Prisons are pitched to us as places of rehabilitation - somewhere to pay penance and right wrongs before returning to the community, better for having served the time
In America? many states don't even pretend with that pitch. They want to be "hard on crime" and "give justice to victims". And voters vote for that.
To be fair, there are lots of unhelthy vegan foods. Just because "veg" is in the name of your dietary preference doesn't mean you can just eat oreos all day
Same for gluten free diets. Some people think eating gluten free is healthy (it isn't), but cram your face with GF pizza, pasta, cookies and candy and you'll be as fat as anyone else. As for health, my kids are celiac so I frequently peruse the ingredients of these products and even simple GF breads can have dozens of ingredients to give it texture, bubbles, elasticity & taste similar to regular wheat bread.
And unhealthy doesn't automatically mean fat, either. It's all about calories in, calories out. You can eat all the junk food you want and still be skinny, so long as you're burning more calories than you're consuming.
Yeah, fuck him. But also they should accommodate for his diet.
The reason we imprison people for life as opposed to executing them, is because we want to demonstrate compassion. Prison is merely isolation for the safety of the public.
His diet doesn't just affect him though, if his diet is to reduce suffering of non-human amimals by not eating meat, then he's still doing good.
Think about the flip-side of this, if in prison, vegan meals were the only option for everyone, and an inmate refused to eat until given meat.
I don't like SBF at all, but I also think veganism should be a respected ethical position. Just like how I don't like Caitlyn Jenner, but I'll still use her preferred pronouns.
It's being brigaded by vegans who only care about veganism, not other people, and people who think it's unethical that anyone be punished for anything they do.
You know, apologia. They're actually really disgusting
I knew one of you loonies was going to start demanding he be released.
Well, you're wrong. He absolutely should be in prison, preferably for the rest of his life along with every other scumbag who stole money out of innocent people's retirement funds, 401Ks, home equity, and every other heinous white collar crime committed on the American people by the ruling class.
You don't care about justice, you only care about what makes you feel better and that's wrong.
Hmmm, 4 hour old account with comments solely on this post? Pretty suspect.
Especially when you’re using the exact same language as another user in this thread.
You don't care about justice, you only care about what makes you feel better and that's wrong.
I’m pretty sure they even used this exact line on me. Lol any chance this is the same person, and you made more accounts to upvote your own comments and downvote those you disagree with? That’d be pretty sad.
Hard disagree, the point of veganism is literally to stop victimization of animals, you want to justify victimization because you don't like someone who's requesting it doesn't happen? That stance is just horrific.
locking him up won't get anyone their money back. i don't know what would be the right thing to do but i don't see how keepin him in a cage helps anyone.
If you don't, aren't you just saying to the next con man that it's okay, jail is too hard so you won't actually get punished, might as well steal billions of dollars?
i don't think he's a malicious conman trying to swindle grandma out of her retirement: i think he's a stupid guy who dug a whole way too fucking deep. and i don't think we should put people in cages for being stupid.
Our society locks up more than just dangerous criminals. And if you're arguing against it there's probably millions of people more deserving of more lenient charges than this guy.
if you’re arguing against it there’s probably millions of people more deserving of more lenient charges than this guy.
no doubt. but this is the guy we're talking about right now so i thought it was worth pointing out that jail is bad and we need to rethink that whole thing.
i don't relish the idea of keeping people in cages and this guy in particular just seems stupid. i don't think there is a good case to be made that inconveniencing him for weeks months or years does us any good, especially since maintaining jails is, itself, kind of inconvenient for us.