People outside the US, how do you feel US expats or exiles would do in your country or region?
People outside the US, how do you feel US expats or exiles would do in your country or region?
NGL, not asking for a friend. Given the current trends in US politics, it seems prudent to at least look into it.
Most of the online content on the topic seems to be by immigration attorneys hustling ultra rich people. I'm not ultra rich. I have a job in tech, could work remotely, also have enough assets to not desperately need money if the cost of living were low enough.
I am a native English speaker, fluent enough in Spanish to survive in a Spanish speaking country. I am old, male, cis, hetero, basically asexual at this point. I am outgoing, comfortable among strangers.
What's good and bad about where you live? Would it be OK for a outsider, newcomer?
I don't know why anyone (who doesn't have ancestry there) would want to move to Pakistan. Sure, it's not completely undeveloped (otherwise I wouldn't be sending this message lol), but it still has a VEEERRRRRYY long way to go compared to other industrialised countries.
- Electricity has become more reliable over the years, but you still have to deal with increasing bills, so that the government can pay off its IMF loans
- Piped gas still isn't 24/7, it's off from 10 pm to 6 am
- Tap water still isn't drinkable
- Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad disproportionately receive the lion's share of development while smaller cities are neglected
- Even Karachi can be said to not be as developed as Lahore or Islamabad. When I visited it, I found that it was greatly overpopulated and many apartment buildings were extremely worn-down. Chipping paint for instance. My father says that since Lahore and Islamabad are a comfortable driving distance away from each other, the population is more evenly distributed between the two cities. Hyderabad's near Karachi, but remember, it's not a big three city ...
- Even the development in Lahore and Islamabad is not optimal. Mostly relying on private housing projects, not making an effort to make them integrate with the rest of the city
- Suboptimal public transport. In Lahore there is a public bus and metro system, but both don't cover too much of the city. For intercity buses, people rely on private companies such as Daewoo Express. And again, the reliance on private housing projects hinders true city-wide planning
- Professionals (doctors, engineers, lawyers) receive very low salaries compared to what they could earn abroad. The devaluation of the rupee is related to it, but only partially. That's why millions of us have moved abroad to literally every other country, and thus why remittances are a big portion of this country's income
- Lahore is literally the smoggiest city in the world right now. Did I mention it's one of the three most developed?
- Too much non-air pollution as well. There is a culture of littering, partially because people aren't punished for it and thus have adopted a care-free attitude, and partially because there aren't enough outdoor wastebins
I haven't even gotten into the sociopolitical aspects ... I'd be writing a whole book at that point
Canadian Here. prior to the election? we'd be welcoming. now? there seems to be a general sense of "we don't what that idiocy here" the right-wing cons of Canada would likely embrace Americans but the general consensus with my friends and family is that Americans are now considered morons (left and right leaning).
But wouldn't you want the ones who would uproot their lives because Trump was elected? It's the ones who voted for him that you wouldn't want. If anything, Canada could use all the non-maga you can get.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
You would think, but you also have to remember: Canadians are also stupid. They're us, just a decade behind.
The Netherlands is generally quite friendly towards (English speaking) immigrants and expats. Almost everyone speaks English and no one really bats an eye at a non-Dutch resident in most of the major western cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, etc.)
Housing is terrible though, prices are high and it'll be hard to find something nice. One advantage for you (or any US resident), is that you're exempt from the inburgering exam. Which means that you won't have to learn the language and won't be tested on your integration in Dutch society.My partner is from abroad and they've experienced living here as quite pleasant. They weren't exempt from the exam though (different non-EU nationality), which was a bit of a nuisance. But in general, reception was positive. They've been living here for over 16 years now.
But like most of Europe, we've got a far-right government right now, so there's a lot of anti-immigration talk going round. Of course it's only aimed at what they think are the "wrong" (Middle-Eastern and African) kind of people, so I doubt Americans would ever have to deal with it.How trans friendly is the Netherlands? I like bikes and tall people are hot, lol.
It's generally LGBTQ friendly especially in Amsterdam but as the other comment said there's also a far right movement going on so it's not all roses and rainbows.
Im from Romania and if i saw someone move here from a richer country, i would be confused
People in Romania are homophobic, racist, xenophobic. A significant percentage of romanians decided to work in another country in the EU, giving money to their family who are living in the country(or just leaving with everyone to another country)
At least over 50% of people pirate software here, including people working for the gouverment, so you dont have to use a VPN
Its also technically illegal to be homophobic, but no one has ever been punished for that
Pakistan also relies heavily on remittances from emigrants working abroad, although unlike Romania, it's not to the extent of causing a population decrease yet. If it were to join an EU-style union (free movement and all) with relatively richer countries, then maybe that'll change.
That bit about not needing a VPN -- I consider it pretty much the only pro of living in such disadvantaged countries, to be honest.
Mexican here. Generally, most of the population won't be very welcoming. Talking specifically about mexico city. You see, the amount of money you make in tech in the US will allow you to stay at the very best places in the city, which pushes native people out of those districts and makes them angry in the process. However, those districts are already popular for tourists/rich immigrants and that's probably for a reason. I guess business there benefit from this wealth availability so they will treat you well. I'm not rich so idk. Also, it's probably not hard to emigrate here bureaucracy wise.
Speaking Spanish, you will likely do very well in mexico. Good food, good nightlife, good safety and infrastructure (assuming you stay in the good zones), etc.
Personally, having traveled to other countries (talking about US and places in Europe specifically), I love the diversity of nationalities you can find. I think different backgrounds and experiences is very important to drive innovation. I'd love to see more of that in my home country so I'm for more people emigrating to mexico. Feel free to ask questions if you are curious.
Gentrification is a problem in the US too, probably most everywhere. Mexico City would be another great culture to be in, but I'm not really interested in living in some isolated communiy though. Is it possible for a foreigner to live a reasonable middle class existence there?
Well, yes of course. Some relatives have few foreigner coworkers and they seem to be happy. (tho I don't know them personally). Also I've met some foreigners through university and they seem to adapt well. But I guess it heavily depends on what kind of lifestyle you want to have.
People are usually warm and we appreciate it if you show interest in our culture and adapting here. You should be more than fine if you are mindful to that and better still if you are naturally outgoing. Good luck and hope you find a cool place to go, or things get better if you end up not moving.
I'm an American living and working in Europe for years now. It's pretty great, although language barriers can leave you feeling a little isolated sometimes. That said, the thought of going back to the US turns my stomach. European working culture is much more... Human. More understanding about things like sick days, better vacation packages and, better worker protections.
I wish the US could be better, but it no longer looks like that will happen in my lifetime so I'll do my best to find happiness here instead.
Any tips for someone who would want to emigrate, but doesn't have any connections? I am an engineer and I have looked at immigration requirements for places like Canada and New Zeeland in the past and it seems like the only real shot I might have is if I work for an international company that has facilities in one of those countries.
Work is how I got in. The IT sector gives you a fair bit of mobility as a worker, an EU blue card can be obtained without a degree (but with relevant experience) if you have a company sponsor you over.
Get a job that will help you immigrate. My company hired a third party to handle most of my paper work. I still had to get apostille for everything, but then they did most of the visa work. They also paid for relocation.
The language thing can be isolating but it also drives you to learn.
Why would I want people from a less privileged country coming here and stealing our jobs, putting a burden on our healthcare system and making housing even more expensive?
Congratulations America, you're now the english language Mexico... with worse Tacos.
I am originally from the US but moved to AU and am now a citizen. I got lucky and got out just before Trump's first presidency.
Life here is good. Like, better than most Americans can really understand. Healthcare is free, education is good and includes topics like critical thinking and understanding how to spot "fake news".
There is only a small aisle of frozen food in the grocery store, not nearly as much pre-packaged food. There are affordable fresh fruits and vegetables, and outside most grocery stores is an independent baker, butcher, fishmonger, and fruit and veg stand.
Minimum wage is $24.10 an hour, and you cannot be fired for no reason if you are a full time employee.
If you compare things (and adjust for AUD to USD) like rent, gas, milk, bread, eggs... Things cost about the same here as in the US.
We pay around the same amount in taxes, and get so much more.
Things aren't completely rosy, distressingly, Australia seems to want to emulate the US in certain ways which worries me.
There is also currently a bit of an economic downturn and while it's nothing like what I left behind, it does mean things cost more and luxuries have to be budgeted for.
I think anyone who isn't a dick would be welcome here. There are racist cunts here like everywhere, but generally Aussies are the kindest and most welcoming people.
Welcome to EU! Prepare for a cultural shift:
Considering that everyone on lemmy is 30+ communist tech worker, it's probably a welcome change
Speaking more specifically about Poland, depending on how you measure, we might have the most rapidly secularizing society in the world Some Americans (catholic fundamentalists) seem to think that you can just barge in, snatch a tradwife and plot of land and live like it's 50s, but these people are straight up delusional. Introducing ban on abortion, for example, erased full quarter of support for the party that did it (40% ish to 30% ish overnight) and caused largest protests since dissolution of Soviet Union. There are conservative women, but these tend to be 60+
In tech job market specifically, the bubble has ended (like everywhere else i guess), but if you're a senior or able to keep your current job you'll be fine (not sure how you'd get residence permit then). You'd need to lean Polish as a practical matter, because while lots of people do speak decent English, many don't (esp. 50+ and in small towns) and many official matters can be done in Polish only. Like everywhere else, there's division between more conservative rural areas and more liberal large cities; no one wants to live in the former, even locals, and so most of foreigners live in Warsaw (or Kraków, or Wrocław). It sounds like you'd blend in right away in one of these places. While property prices and rent went up since start of the plague, it's not as crushingly bad as in, say, Berlin or Rotterdam. Random benefits include ability to pirate absolutely everything without VPN with no consequences and ability to use complaint as a conversation starter
I never thought about it before, but I agree - you can start a conversion by complaining.
Living in Poland all my life, I also would like to mention it feels really safe here (as a white male, so...).
Unless you're into football, or low quality clubbing you'll be hard to find violent crime. Domestic violence and related murders do happen, but you'll be hard pressed to get yourself mugged or assaulted these days.
You can pay by card or via app (blik) nearly anywhere, small village shop, street produce vendor, food truck, anywhere. If they don't want your card they are probably doing some tax fraud, or are bad at finding low card payment fees.
TL;DR: I've travelled a bit, and I really don't think I'd rather live anywhere else.
I want to say on that cultural shift, having lived my entire life in the dark blue sections of the US... that would be such a freaking welcome change.
Also fucking shocked that Kansas ISN'T dark blue.
First of all, stop using word "expat" when you're talking of immigrants but from "better countries"
Ive usually seen "Expat" defined as someone working in another country, but explicitly with the intent to be there temporarily and leave once their time at that job ends, rather than moving there with an intent to stay and join that society. Which, granted, doesnt seem to be what OP is actually talking about in this case.
What OP is talking about has been a thing since the 90s and even 80s and earlier with ex-military.
Move to a cheap country where your pension/disability/passive income/whatever makes you wealthy.
Originally places liked it because it was an influx in cash. But then it became too popular and they were gentrifying places to the point locals couldn't afford to live and these leeches never worked.
It became big again with the internet when people became able to work and American job while overseas remotely. But by now most American companies just won't pay American wages. If they wanted someone overseas they'd pay them the low wage they always do.
With those younger people they added the "temporary" because they say they'll move back someday.
What you're talking about (if the job is in that country) would be a migrant worker.
But they also don't like that label, they think they're better than it.
It's short for "expatriate." I'm not saying it isn't used in the way you described, but that's not the original meaning.
Thats just the expats changing the narrative when people started calling them out on it.
That's what it means but some people use it wrong and some people complain about it being used wrong, wrongly
I always understood that you refer to yourself and your fellow countrymen abroad as expats. You use the word immigrant when referring to others.
Yes, this is exactly how I would define it.
I also don't think it imparts a general pro/anti integration with locals (not to say some assholes aren't out there).
If I was thinking of immigrating elsewhere, I'd want to be near a few other people from my country who've been there longer than me, if only to make the transition easier and to get help with any issues specific to people from the same place.
That's some old fashion 'us versus them,' kinda thinking.
I'd love to see countries mark "expat" as an option on forms...
Just as a trap to filter them all out.
It was literally in the last couple of weeks that I first came across this. I thought it just meant 'a person living in a country in which isn't their home country' regardless of origin, etc. The only thing I thought of it is that it wasn't necessarily permanent whereas immigrant to me had permanence. It's wild that, to me, it seems to have come out of nowhere.
I always saw expats as something between immigrants and tourists. They aren't trying to switch countries and they aren't just on vacation. There's plenty of good reasons for this category, like being sent somewhere by your employer. This naturally creates a community of foreigners who aren't necessarily worried about fitting in as a new citizen or permanent resident would be.
But yeah, this idea that Western countries have expats instead of emigrants is weird.
Europe here. Plenty of expats here from the whole world. You will be welcomed, but getting a visa is a pain. Our politics are shit as well though.
Brazil is a Bad Idea®.
- There's a reasonable chance that a Trump-like clown wins in 2026. Probably a Bolsonaro ally, or even a relative (there have been talks about his wife running for presidency).
- Repeat with me the Latin American mantra: Nothing Fucking Works®.
- Ask Haitians and Venezuelans how they're treated.
Repeat with me the Latin American mantra: Nothing Fucking Works®.
Costa Rica does!
Depends how they behave. If they behave like "Expats", who don't care about integrating into our society, don't care about learning the local language even after years, they are not welcome.
If they integrate seamless (and this does not imply giving up their identity, just to make sure), and become a good member of this society, be welcome.
Summed it up pretty well.
We love our country, and welcome you to join it. But join us - don't bring your country's problems here.
I am born, raised, and live in one of the most diverse cities on the planet. I could care less about you assimilating to my culture. And I definitely don't care if you can't speak the language.
That's some Nazi crap to judge people like that.
Learning the language of the country you're moving to should be the bare minimum of what's expected of you. I'd suggest taking a history lesson if your goto is comparing it to Nazism, seems rather disrespectful to actual victims of the Nazi Party.
i barely integrate now as an american; mostly because of my neuro-divergence makes it easy for people to misread me due my intonation and body language and the number episodes of misunderstanding happened MUCH MORE frequently when i visited my potential new home country as a tourist over the last 40ish years.
i automatically qualify for citizenship for the country and i wonder what it's going to be like if i have to live there because i have both legal and cultural claim to the country; but i'm very much american plus an american that always seems arrogant and callous to everyone no matter how much he tries.
When I here Expat I assume asshole xD
You would literally lose your job and social life in the US if you said this in America about immigrants lol
The fact you're getting dunked on for this comment shows how delusional people are.
Given that my country is Russia and you are probably trying to escape an authoritarian regime, you may consider another destination.
But still, I think Americans are generally welcome. People can make lighthearted jokes about it and be surprised, but you'll be a welcome guest after all. Bonus points if you say American government, and particularly Department of State, is shit :D
Language barrier might be an issue - most Russians above ~35 have very poor English skills, and younger folks mostly have it on A2-B2 level.
Oh, and the country is sanctioned to hell, so sending money in and out is an additional hurdle. But if you retain your American credit card, you'll be alright and at least able to make payments outside the country.
New Zealander here. I work in IT. Americans seem to get on fine here in the IT sector. NZ is less right wing than the US but you wouldn't earn as much and housing is expensive
Weird way to talk about immigrants
Heidelberg, Germany. This town is already more American than some towns in America.
If you're a nurse or some other skilled professional in some specific fields... We have kind of a labor shortage with some jobs here in Germany. I live in the city, should be okay for outsiders. I guess.
I'd recommend to visit a place before considering to move. See how the people act. And you'd need to learn the language to be able to take part in regular every day life. (Edit: And for most jobs.)
Ja, aber man braucht wenigstens b2 für eine Ausbildung zu machen. Das gelt auch für wenn man möchte als Pflegefachmann/frau arbeiten
Here in Scotland / the UK you'd be absolutely fine so long as you're a decent person. There's not even a language barrier beyond dialect, and dialects vary hugely within the UK and each part of the UK anyway. Just please don't insist that your great-great-grandmother is actually from Clan MacWhatever.
What if my mom grew up across the road from Bellahouston Park?
Then it's no wonder she left
Does establishing some kind of ancestry actually do anything? I did a whole report on my great great grandfather on my mother's side and learned about the name and the clan. Still remember the motto and official plaid and all that jazz. Never once considered it'd ever be relevant to anything.
It is fun seeing "nec sorte, nec fato" pop up ocassionally tho.
It might allow you to join the clan as a social club, essentially. A fair few of them have newsletters and run events where they get together, so it can be a good network. It doesn't affect the day-to-day life of the average person, though
In my country you'd be locked up at a random moment of your stay. Tortured in prison, used as a trading chip in a complex web of international intrigue and diplomacy. Accused of terrorism. Paraded for political manipulation of the masses. Then unceremoniously put in a plane to Canada so US authorities can go pick you up. But it would be very nice and welcoming up to that point.
man, france really changed its tone
Lots of Americans here in London, UK. They've generally been transferred by their company though. I expect it's v hard to get in when applying for a new job.
I never even considered the UK, in spite of having English friends here in the states, and US friends currently living there, and enjoying it. My limited knowledge is that visa issues are problematic, and the cost of living is rather high. Culturally it would be great.
The UK spent hundreds of years searching for and taking home all the culture they could due to specifically not having any culture whatsoever back home. They also used that culture like they used their spices, which is not at all. The English are a terrible example of humanity and should not be recognized as anything other than the barbarians they are.
Ireland is full of tech jobs that pay well and that's the only way to live well here right now since basics are so expensive. Housing is a big issue, but that's not just our problem. Come on over, you'd be welcomed.
I don't know why but this is the first place I actually thought to move after Trump won again... I've never even been able to afford a house here...
I would love to take my family to some place that is more accepting of interracial relationships/children. because we all knew it was racist country but I didn't realize how racist it was until trump won again...
I could see them trying to end interracial marriage just like they want to outlaw same sex...
You hit the nail on the head when you said "expats or exiles"
They're immigrants, and it's only Brits and Yanks that refuse to admit it
I'm an immigrant. Learn the fucking language yous cunts. Respect the country's mindset. Pay your fucking taxes.
I'm roughly between b2 and c1 in German after living here for 2 years. I met another American who has lived here for 12 years and spoke lower than a1 german. I could only speak to him in English. Don't be like that guy.
I'd say currently in Germany it's all depending on which state you pick. Bayern z.B. is the most international place I've ever lived. The people here (speaking from my view point) are very loving and caring. I feel my day with small talk and jokes and have no problem making friends, which is the opposite of what I read from others on the internet.
So I guess it all depends on where you live, how hard you work to integrate yourself, and most importantly is TRY to learn the language for gods sake.
Either way best of luck to you and enjoy your journey!
Working with a few of them. One moved here around 20 years ago, and one moved here 2 years ago. They're both doing fine. The rest I don't know very well.
Don't bring your politics over here, though.
Okay I've read about three comments and I'm gonna need someone to explain the connotation behind the word "expat" because the only definition I can find is "Someone who resides outside their country of origin."
Americans view the terms immigrant and immigration negatively
Term is British origin... But yeah now
The way I've seen it, it appears to primarily be used by the various British and former British colonies, including the US. For these groups, anyone from outside the colonies living in "our" territory is an immigrant (who is certainly a lower class!). However, if we choose to reside in another country, we are not immigrants, we are "expats".
Not everyone uses this term, but those that do frequently congregate in English speaking enclaves and make no attempt to integrate into their new home. They often see the locals as a sort of servant class, particularly because they probably came with enough money or income to make them wealthy by local standards.
As you might imagine, people with this attitude are probably not very popular with locals.
Very online folks word lawyering to the n-th degree. Language shifts and has different meanings in different countries.
To play along, I've heard "expat" to refer to someone on a work appointment with a fixed timeline, say, someone who works for Microsoft being sent to France for 2 years. I've heard many Americans say "I'm immigrating to" to mean they are going through permeant resident or citizen pathways with the host country.
Others have a different read of the word, but as long as you aren't a jerk wherever you are going, it won't ever come up
Wanna move and work remotely for your current company I guess? Why should we welcome you instead of someone who wants to come here to fill up a vacant position that we don't have workforce for?
You can't have your cake and eat it too just because you're angry that the wrong guy got elected. There are people around the world getting bombed, they're the people who need to get out of their country, not a tech bro that could just move to a State that reliably elected Democrats.
I think you'd be fine here in Australia but that depends on whether you have a job or not. Australia is good for anyone who comes with employment already. Otherwise its Work And Holiday visa pathways are better suited to younger people because of the usually physical and demanding nature of the jobs available.
Otherwise Argentina would also be legally okay for you, however I haven't lived there for a very long time so I can't say for sure. It would be a lot less safe for foreigners than Australia but I hear it wouldn't be more rough than some of the rough places in the US. You will want a stable source of income ideally from a remote job, such as freelancing for clients that can pay with dollars or euros. You will also want a friend who's native or already well established so they can teach you the ropes socially/locally and with the current state of the country. I would personally not go back to Argentina without a stable income because making a livable income inside the country is going to be next to impossible.
I would be doing that too, but you got to understand that other countries have other cultures, some things wil be better like free heathcare and better labour laws but other are not "as good". In europe they do control a lot of things we can access on the internet for example. If someone doesn't comply with an EU regulation they will be punished, it's not 'freedom of speach" without consequences like in the US. Also being entitled like many americans are will not work here. So like everything in life some people will be a good match for.one country and others for other countries.
I'm really curious about what you think you're not being allowed to visit on the internet.
I can't think of a single thing that's 'blocked'.
Unless you're under 13, of course, in which case I concede there are a lot of restrictions - but that's a good thing.
i think that the only blocked sites are gambling related and not even everywhere at that
Austrian here, I work in software development, I have encountered people before who didn't speak much German and whom I had to speak English with. I think you'd be fine around here, we're a pretty generic Western culture I think.
Canada would be easy, but you cannot just go there and work
I live in CA and I'm diabetic. If it gets to the point where I get denied medical insurance because I have a preexisting condition then I might have to bail.
tip: bail before it's an issue
Here in Brazil anything and anyone from outside (except neighbors and Chinese products) is automatically seen as better. South of the tropic is very chill and safe, you would be quite fine; north of the tropic starts getting very dangerous, but there are still some safe places in larger cities.
You would do good here in The Netherlands. Lots of tech jobs, over here you actually have rights as an employee. No max amount of sick days for example, as no one plans a certain amount of days to be sick. The "FrEeDoM" Americans claim to have is so twisted and extremity far away from actual freedom. Here in NL I do feel I have true freedom. As in: not having to be scared when going out on the streets at night, no matter where I go. There are no guns. No crimes against humanity. Of course we do have issues, every country does. But they are tiny compared to most countries. Although we did vote for right wing parties sadly, we're not heading in the direction I want.
Oh and EVERYONE speaks English. From child to boomer. Officially it's not a foreign language anymore due to the high level English most speak. They are even discussing it should be a 3rd national language.