YSK: You don't own your Kindle e-books.
YSK: You don't own your Kindle e-books.
This is not an anti-Kindle rant. I have purchased (rented?) several Kindle titles myself.
However, YSK that you are only licensing access to the book from Amazon, you don't own it like a physical book.
There have been cases where Amazon deletes a title from all devices. (Ironically, one version of "1984" was one such title).
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html
There have also been cases where a customer violated Amazon's terms of service and lost access to all of their Kindle e-books. Amazon has all the power in this relationship. They can and do change the rules on us lowly peasants from time to time.
Here are the terms of use:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201014950
Note, there are indeed ways to download your books and import them into something like Calibre (and remove the DRM from the books). If you do some web searches (and/or search YouTube) you can probably figure it out.
I haven't used Kindles personally ever, but I helped my neighbor export their kindle collection a few years ago.
It dumped it into mobi files to use with calibre. Then from there, you can convert them into epubs.
I recall it being straightforward. Probably something a kindle owner should do periodically to back up their collection.
Another problem with DRM'd platforms is that you don't really know how long this will be easy or even viable. I recall these tools breaking in the past as Amazon changed their encryption, and it took time for them to be updated.
For anyone with a large library on Kindle, Audible, or any other DRM-infested platform, I recommend stripping that DRM sooner rather than later. You might think "I can always do it later" but there's no guarantee that will be true.
Also, shoutout to ebooks.com for having a dedicated DRM-free section and a simple checkbox to filter search results to only show DRM-free items. Not sure where to go for DRM-free audiobooks though. Anyone got suggestions? Personally I will simply not buy books with DRM, regardless of how easy it might be to crack it. If I'm going to have to break the law anyway (thanks, DMCA!), I might as well pirate it and find some other way to toss the author a few bucks.
I use downpour.com for drm-free audiobooks. They let you straight up download the mb4 files haha it’s awesome.
It’s such a win-win b/c I get to buy audiobooks drm-free and I get to avoid supporting audible which has terrible business practices such as locking authors in exclusive deals.
Also thanks for the ebooks.com recommendation! I was reading this thread specifically to see if anyone knew of a good place online to buy drm-free ebooks :)
You can get Audiobooks from Spotify using the app Soundbound. You need to insert a list of plugins, then it works.
Apart from that, youtube? Or sailing the high seas?
My understanding is they arent mobi files anymore but a proprietary DRM format. That being said, there are many wonderful calibre plugins that break the drm.
FWIW, Amazon deprecated mobi files recently and epub is the new "sideload" standard. You still have to email the file to the kindle address to be able to read them, or convert to azw3.
If you're already using Calibre, check out Calibre-Web, which essentially uses a Calibre database as the back end. The interface is so much nicer than Calibre.
MOBI has been deprecated for a long time. Standard formats now are AZW3 (KF8) and KFX. They're a bit more advanced than MOBI, and thank goodness, since it was a terrible format. AZW3 is essentially a MOBI/EPUB container, and I believe KFX is equivalent to EPUB2, possibly with some EPUB3 features.
It's better to keep them as mobi files than converting to epub. Mobi works on almost every device, and converting to epub can always result in messed up formatting or chapters.
If you absolutely have to convert the files to epub for some reason, at least keep the original mobi files as well
I've used Calibre and stripped DRM off eBooks, definitely recommend.
Does that still work? Last time I tried I had no luck
For Kindle specific ripping, I think it changed a year back and now you need to have a kindle connected before the Amazon servers poop out some magic unlock key/the whole book. After that you're golden, but during the rip you need a kindle device..
They explain the Kindle difference when using Calibre DeDRM tool in this article.
I use Calibre to remove the DRM from all ebooks I buy. Not that I buy a lot of them, but hell if I’ll let Amazon be the keeper of the keys.
Yup, making a DRM-free backup somewhere is the only way to protect the content you paid for from the whims of the overlords.
You don't own your Kindle books because you bought them from Amazon
I don't own mine because I pirated them
We are not the same
edit: I actually try to circle back around and buy physical copies of any book I really enjoy. But I'm much better about paying for video games, tabletop games, and even journalism than I am fiction... I think my bezos resentment gets in the way a bit there.
Like hell I don't. Calibre plus NoDRM says otherwise.
You can strip the DRM if needed
Yea Audible too. I can't remember the name of the tool but you can connect to your account and it pulls all your purchases locally DRM free. It was handy for setting up Audiobookshelf
That's true for the older Kindle format but not the newer one.
There are also Kindle books sold without DRM at the request of the author.
I know that would allow you to back up the ebook file elsewhere and use it however you please, but could Amazon still potentially delete the file from your Kindle device?
I don’t know.
You can put unmanaged files (in a readable format) onto a Kindle via USB, though, so if you’d backed up the file somewhere you could presumably put it back again manually.
Doesn't even really let you do that.
A "DRM Free" kindle ebook still basically requires a physical kindle (or shenanigans with apps) to even access the raw file of. If you just go to your content library to try and download it to transfer via USB you get told to pound sand and buy a kindle. That might change if you have a physical kindle registered to your account (I currently read exclusively via my phone and my onyx boox) but... yeah.
And yeah, as long as it is in The Cloud, amazon can do whatever they want. I am not aware of having any books removed from my account but I do recall having the option to "upgrade" an ebook to a newer version in the case of publisher screw ups.
Yup, mine are drm free.
🏴☠️
As someone who publishes on Amazon if you buy my book and Amazon takes it from you PM I will send said customer a epub version for free.
I’m an author of two books, and whenever someone asks me for a copy (or even says they want to read it), I straight-up hand them a free ebook. I just want people to read me.
My wife wrote a book and brought copies to sell. Someone asked her if she brought ones to sell and my wife said yes. Later when we meet with her she's like "you're sure I can have this?" My wife says something like "yeah I brought enough" and then she never paid lol. Even worse, the next day she wasn't randomly holding a $20 bill and put it away. Either she's the most rude and insanely conniving person ever or our life was a sitcom because wtf. There's more context but I don't wanna yap too long. My wife almost even took the money out of her hand thinking she just didn't have cash the night before.
All that said, you deserve to get paid for your work!
Yaar, matey.
I hate that pirating is the ONLY way to even semi own what you buy. Bought an album off Bandcamp (DRM free music) and when one of the songs on that album got in a pointless argument about copyright and got taken down from my Spotify playlists.
Songs being taken off of Spotify is really common if you're into older stuff as the rights get passed on when the artist dies. Though in this case it was a year old album.
I was glad I bought it DRM free as I thought they could only unlist it from the store, not from libraries... until I saw it was gone there too.
I payed MONEY for them to take it out of my library on a DRM free site. That's like them taking my music CD and scratching it with sandpaper.Pirating literally gives me the same experience as buying it for literally no issue. (except the lossless files but who cares)
For ebooks in particular, owning what you buy isn’t that difficult though. You can legally buy DRM protected epubs in a lot of online book stores and then use the software calibre (open source) to strip the DRM. Much easier than with music, movies or software.
Some songs get taken down and relisted under different albums. I've had this happen with a lot of lofi music I thought was gone. Worth double checking!
Yes, most Kindles allow you to load your own PDFs and .ebook files, so pirating them is inconsequential.
I‘d recommend the software calibre. Great for managing your ebook library and it can convert epub into amazons azw, mobi or kfx formats (depending on which generation kindle you have). With the right plugin you can even create WordWise data for your kindle-converted ebooks.
You don’t even necessarily need to illegally download the books, as calibre can also handle the DRM of .ebub books you bought from almost any store. Of course, sailing the seven seas is still always an option though.
I am now of the opinion that you should just download books off indexing sites/IRC/ Usenet/torrents and if you like the book and want to support the author, buy a physical copy, or buy 2 and put one in a neighborhood free library. That maximizes the good you are doing and helps your community instead of just generating Bezos bux.
Some authors straight up tell you where they get the most money for your purchase. Hardcopy is almost never it. But also those mini share libraries are cool and I like dropping sci fi books in.
Jokes on you I pirates mine!
"I'm aware, Amazon just hosts things I got from libgen and the #bookz undernet irc channel."
I can't wait until a Senator or comparable "it's not a problem until it happens to me" lawmaker loses access to their digital library and goes on the warpath. That's the only way out of this "you will own nothing" hellhole we're in and moving deeper into.
Probably won't happen until Millennials and younger are in meaningful numbers in Congress or Parliament or whatever. A few Gen X politicians might be affected, but the rest probably don't have gigantic digital libraries of things they've "bought."
California is at least taking a step forward in legislating that "sellers" can't call it a purchase if you're only getting a revocable license. Shops wouldn't be allowed to use the word "buy" or "purchase" unless you get to own the product.
Yeah, I read that the other day. Wish it would do more than that, but it's a start I guess.
This is why they rarely pull your whole library, it's too noticeable and all these services have is public faith they're going to still be there. More often the case you'll just lose access to a purchase here and there and usually goes undetected especially if you have a large collection.
yo ho yo ho...a pirate's life for me...
Sorry, what are we talking about?
Jokes on Amazon I can almost always find a copy of what ever book on libgen that I end up owning crazy how that works
Kobo and epub only. Anything else, you don't own and you shouldn't pay for it.
Technically, we're one update away from Kobo taking our device away too. I do love my KOReader on my Clara 2E though
Doesn't matter. All my books are epub. If kobo starts eating dick, I go somewhere else.
I just want a nice eReader that I can put something like Alpine on.
Throw the Kindle to the ground and get a Kobo, they let you pirate books a million times easier
Happy Prime Day to the GROUND!
I'll just keep using my local public library.
Most of them lend eBooks these days so I know I won't get to keep them regardless, but I also don't have to pay for them.
And the author is getting paid.
Duh. Same goes for Steam games and most of digital content.
If you want to keep it, there's usually always an option to sail the high seas.
Except Steam never deletes games that you already own or takes them away from you for other reasons.
Yes, they could do that in the future but its the one company where that is unlikely.
Yeah, while Gaben is still at the helm...
Not Steam/Valve but others will surely try something.
Example: Best case scenario happened to Rocket League.
This is why I pirate my media, and you should too!
Readarr + calibre makes it very convenient and easy (the rest of the arr suite is great for other forms of media too)
You are right I get my books for my kindle from torrents. I do not own them. I also don't pay for them.
(Also library has epubs, librarys are great)
Any Kindle owner should go find out how easy it is to get library books on their Kindle. It’s totally the way to go. You don’t have to buy their shit and deal with their rules.
I own the 1000s of ebooks I've downloaded to my personal media server.
That's why you shouldn't buy books from Amazon or other online ebook stores instead just download the ePubs elsewhere.
I'd also highly recommend KOreader if you have a Kindle or Ereader which supports it, as it supports many more formats and has a nice interface.
The interface is 100% of the reason I won't use it. It's by far the worst experience for navigating a library I've ever seen. It's just access to your filesystem, except with effectively no files on the screen at a time.
There's no tags, no ability to choose between by author, series, publisher, genre, etc, just a really bad presentation of your filesystem.
Thank you for introducing me to KOReader and Kindle jailbreaking.
Fortunately, the Kindle Paperwhite I use is no longer supported, and is compatible with few of the jailbreaks out there.
A good rabbit hole to dive into over the weekend.
Also to add that amazon has been caught encouraging users to "refund" e-books and purchase a different one, without telling users that these refunds are clawed back from the Authors.
Then to double fuck the Authors they didnt give authors detailed statements - only payments of the monthly total, so any "refunds" were deducted from the total sales from that month and author paid the difference. This was only noticed when an author with an accounting/finance background noticed a negative payment statement one month and looked into this and found amazon routinely charging back authors, sometimes for multiple copies of 'refunds' that didnt actually get refunded, straight up stealing from the Authors.
Amazon is on my shit list and will not buy any products from them ever again. They are one of the worst monopolist mega corporations. They treat their employees like slaves, are anti-repair, anti-consumer.
I gifted an older Kindle to my sister, and the screen broke (out of warranty). I contacted Amazon about it, and they basically said they don't make replacement parts and don't service the kindles, they can only give me a small discount for buying a new one.
I looked up a guide on doing it myself, and even if I find a replacement screen, it's really difficult. The screen is glued with a strong adhesive. The entire device looks very cheaply built and deliberately made really difficult to repair.
I mean to be fair they are very cheap to purchase all things considered. That said I’ve still got my Kindle 3 I bought used on eBay and it’s still going strong after like 10 years I’ve owned it.
Jokes on them, I have a Gen1 Kindle that won't even connect to wifi.
My Gen 2 only had whispernet, which relied on the Sprint EVDO network, both of which no longer exist (the company and the network type).
it's the same with Google Books. you can't copy text from the book you bought into your notes. you're not allowed to copy text. i want to buy books legitimately for my research, but i cant use any of this shit.
What do you mean? Bookmarks with no labels and highlights with no indexing isn't enough for you? What do you want, integration of open source note taking software with Google Books?!? That's ridiculous, nobody would ever use that...
Okay but for real. I got through college using One Note's snip tool to take pictures of the text and paste it into my digital notes. So that's a way to do it. It does suck that we have all this tech but we won't let it talk to each other because rich people have to get richer, even around academia.
It does suck that we have all this tech but we won't let it talk to each other because rich people have to get richer
This is my biggest personal disillusionment and frustration with the world. If companies would commit to open interoperable data standards and allowing access through APIs, there's so many things in life that would be better. We could have our tech actually work for us.
My Kindle never saw any WiFi connected to it. Everything goes through Calibre. I only read dead authors, so I don't feel bad about pirating my books.
Sometimes I go buy used books at my local bookshops just because you should support your local bookshop.I came to the same realization about my audiobooks through audible, so I've archived my audible account and now they can't take my books :D
same goes for steam, epic launcher, etc. with the exception of gog (though generally if steam removes a game, they at least let you keep your copy if you already own it)
GoG, and physical games are only licenses as well. If you have any physical games from the era of instruction manuals you can find it laid out clearly inside, generally towards the end.
But GoG's offline installers and physical games can't be taken from you by the publisher etc (servers for online games and updates aside).
Neither can installed copies of games if you write protect the files, back them up where the launcher can't get to them, etc. Licensing, DRM, and legality really aren't the defining factors here. There are shades of better or worse, but at the end of the day it's about simply being able to back up the media in a form that can't be touched by the corporations.
Damn right I don't.
Yarrrrrrr
Don't do that. Authors make next to nothing from their books. You don't have to support Amazon, but at least buy a paper copy or audiobook to support the author.
Unless it's J. K. Rowling. Fuck Rowling.
I remember an email I sent to Randall Munroe once, asking where I can buy his ebook "What if" without DRM.
He emailed me back that unfortunately there is no place to buy it without DRM, because of the publisher, but he also linked this comic in his email:
I don't want to fuck Rowling.
I buy DRM free books off humble bundle. Even if I already have previously downloaded them. I will not give money to anything with DRM on it if I don't have to. These authors aren't getting money from me because they don't offer a product I want (DRM free books). Other sources do have this product so they can blame themselves or their publisher for losing sales.
YSK, finding and installing mobi files are easy. Also, keeping your Kindle in airplane mode prevents ads. Fuck Amazon. Calibre is a great open source piece of software.
I'm glad you mentioned airplane mode. I noticed something interesting about my Kindle after I set up a Pi Hole on my home network. The kindle would constantly try to connect to the Amazon mothership. Because the Pi Hole was blocking it, it would try it over and over again and this quickly depleted the batteries (maybe trying to boost it's WiFi signal? I'm not sure). Putting it into Airplane mode helps preserve battery life noticeably, back to what it was before I installed the Pi Hole.
It drains battery faster even if it's not blocked too, kind of annoying.
Unless you download the pdf/epub off a very legal website. And only buy the books of small authors you want to support.
This is why I only read books from the library
My wife is big on library, and I need to, but I grew up just pirating stuff, so here we are. But she has a book club, and she'll place a request for the book, and in the event it's not yet available, she maintains the request but I get it for her. And for me personally, when I like a book or a series, I go and snag them later. I just prefer reading in Kindle anymore.
There have also been cases where a customer violated Amazon's terms of service and lost access to all of their Kindle e-books
Imagine where corpo can take your property because you did something they did not like....
Now open your eyes, peasants.
Imagine where corpo can take your property
Brave to assume that just because you paid money for something you own it.
The lesson is don't get in bed with corpos who hold custody of your property...
Custody is 9/10th of the property law anyway ;)
I looked in to the whole DRM removal thing. From what I could tell, everything was majorly out of date, required a really old version of Calibre, and didn't work with newer books.
Edit: So, this is out of date info. There's a fork and it works with a fairly recent version of the PC app. Basically no fuss.
The DeDrm plugin and the most recent Calibre worked for me just yesterday on a brand new book. Something that's easy to miss is that you need to put in the serial number of your kindle device and make sure you download the e-book for that same device. Otherwise the plugin won't be able to decrypt it.
Calibre can be recent - the plug-in was abandoned but forked, but an old physical Kindle is beneficiary. However some books in the store are no longer available for those lately.
If someone want an alternative there is ebooks.com. The two titles I got from there were way cheeper than on the store linked to my device. No nonsense app or anything, just download the file from the store and do what you want with it.
You misspelled Library Genesis.
This section implies their books are DRMd. I don't know how ebooks.com works, but according to their about page, you still don't own the content.
The two titles I got from there were way cheeper than on the store linked to my device.
I searched a few books on both kindle store (web) and ebooks.com. The prices for the books were the same down to the penny.
Do you have an example of a title that is cheaper on ebooks.com?
Everyone should generally assume that unless you have something tangibly in your hand, you either do not own it or you may very easily and/or suddenly lose access to it. You could test this by trying to access the content without having to sign in to something.
All these streaming and subscription services should be considered ease of access conveniences. In other industries, you pay a premium for something to be prepared for you to consume. In the subscription industry, you're paying less because you're not paying for the content but for a license to temporarily consume the content (and probably because your info is being sold to advertisers).
Fun Fact: If you were to rip a Bluray to your computer, you're legally not permitted to watch that movie if you're no longer in possession of the disc. This is because you're not purchasing the content of the disc but the license to view the content. Decrypting DRM is illegal not based on whether you own the content but because the DRM encryption itself is separately copyright protected.
Fun Fact: If you were to rip a Bluray to your computer, you're legally not permitted to watch that movie if you're no longer in possession of the disc.
Not sure why you think this.
You can legally rip a Bluray for backup purposes. If you sell or give away the Bluray, you have to delete the backed up copy. If it’s lost, stolen, or unintentionally damaged, you do not.
However, you cannot bypass the DRM to watch it or when you’re creating the backup. This is true regardless of whether you still possess the physical disc.
Decrypting DRM is illegal not based on whether you own the content but because the DRM encryption itself is separately copyright protected.
Bypassing DRM is illegal because the DMCA explicitly prohibits the circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works, and there isn’t an exemption for personal use, personal backups, or fair use in general.
Not sure why you think this.
You just reiterated what I said.
If you were to rip a Bluray to your computer, you’re legally not permitted to watch that movie if you’re no longer in possession of the disc.
=
You can legally rip a Bluray for backup purposes. If you sell or give away the Bluray, you have to delete the backed up copy.
Technically, if the FBI were to ask you to prove ownership of a digital copy and you had lost the disc, it would be illegal to retain that digital copy.
Bypassing DRM is illegal because the DMCA explicitly prohibits the circumvention...
Yes. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act is a law that covers copyright protections.
Finally got around to backing up my over 200 audiobooks in a DRM-free format after this post reminded me it was on my to-do list. Libation is pretty damn good.
I have a few kindles, have upgraded over the years and have been able to use them all in the same manner:
With a new device I connect it to the internet and update the firmware to the latest version (the factory installed version has had a lot of missing functionality in my experience). Then I block it from my network, delete the AP entry and put it permanently into airplane mode.
When purchasing an ebook from Amazon you can download it for usb transfer and I organize it on my laptop with Calibre.
Calibre can also strip drm, but if you’re transferring it to the device you downloaded it for it isn’t necessary.
Amazon may at some point in the future change all of this, but the content I have already downloaded can not be revoked and is usable outside the Amazon ecosystem if the drm is removed.
I just use my kindle as intended: using Calibre's "email" button to load 100% legally obtained books via it's [email protected] address.
IDGAF. If they start yanking books off my device I'll put it in airplane mode.
If it's on a kindle they can and will delete it off your device, Drm or no
It's like you completely ignored the part where he removed his Kindle from the Internet.
Can't delete a title since I don't have it ever connected to internet.
I do.
Not an American, but I did buy digital books on Amazon and Kindle.
Have you seen the new ruling about games from California? Doest that apply to ebooks (since its digital goods?) Or not?
So Kobo is the way to go then?
I'm really asking, my daughter is becoming a big book worm and we have missed out on some great sales because she only reads physical books ATM. I want her to give it a try with an e-ready and did not like Amazon for it.
Kobo has direct access to your public library too through Overdrive. Makes borrowing ebooks super easy!
I use Pocketbook. It opens just about anything - epub, mobi, pdf, pdb, and many more formats. Just get a book anywhere and copy it via USB. Or send it as an email attachment to your special address and it will download automatically. You can even replace the reading app with another relatively easily, if you want.
Pocketbook sounds great, I'll check it out.
Thanks for the info!
There are Android ereaders. They're mostly Chinese manufacturers, and I've heard more than one doesn't follow the GPL properly with their modifications to Android, but the end result is freedom to use a variety of sources of books (including Libby and Hoopla from the library, among others).
I haven't played with parental controls to know if they're easy to access, but my most current Boox came with the play store installed and it's pretty easy to learn how to adjust the display settings for different apps with different types of content.
Steam, Kindle, Audible, what was that movies site?
It is entirely possible to use a Kindle for epub only (that is, never "buy" a book from Amazon). There are lots of epub around, including from places like Gutenberg.
Additionally, the Libby app allows you to use your Kindle in conjunction with your local library's electronic collection, which (in my case) is quite sizable and allows you to "borrow" DRMd books for a finite amount of time.
Is there an ebook service like GOG is for games? DRM free so you can keep the books regardless of what happens to the service?
(I know it's easy enough to remove it, but I'd rather support a service like that if I can)
Any of the third party reading apps and any epub file you store yourself. So if you buy an ebook from Amazon but get the epub version instead of Kindle then it's protected from deletion. This is because you store it like any other document and your epub reader just reads the file.
DRM fuckery means your mileage will vary.
Ugh. I was looking for a Book and found it on Barnes and Noble. according to the blurb I was supposed to be able to download it after purchase. But after purchasing it I quickly found out that you can only download it if you have the Nook app. Which isn't available in Canada. Where I'm from.
I was able to find the .apk and install it on my phone but the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.
Of course you don't. Did anyone think otherwise?
Kindles have always slotted in as somewhere between the mass market paperbacks and trade paperbacks. Cheap books you read once or twice and then likely never again. If you do get in the mood to read it again? mobi files hold up a lot better than pulp designed to decay in order months but MMPBs always had a tendency to be lost forever just like amazon has a tendency to fuck with your library.
A knowledgeable user will be aware of these shortcomings of so-called "ownership" of digital goods, but the average person doesn't read license agreements and does not understand that their purchase can be revoked at any time by the seller.
The average person makes a purchase and expects to own the item in question.