As a foreigner I never understood the novote sentiment in the US. You aren't voting for either candidate because you dislike them, so who would you actually vote for? AOC? RFK Jr? Bernie? Does your ideal candidate even exist in reality yet? All a no vote does is take away your own rights in your country, while the rest of the world moves on without you.
For what it's worth, both parties can be trash but one party actually can be shamed to doing the right thing once in a while.
Non voters are either children or morons.
Rational adults realise that this is the system and you have to operate inside of it despite the compromises.
Now, you want to start changing the system, start a grassroots campaign, get into politics to change the system, more power to you!
But sitting on your ass crying about both sides while doing nothing, you are simply an immature moron.
I cannot blame people for feeling jaded or disillusioned. Would we vote for Bernie? We certainly would've if the DNC didn't provably sabotage his campaign. And I cannot ignore that Biden is old and deeply unpopular among leftists, yet our party refuses to offer up a better choice because they're counting on "the devil you know" to carry him through. Who could feel enthusiastic about that? I think the hope is that the DNC will learn some kind of lesson if he loses, though I know they won't. The trend of "reduce harm now, actually improve things later" has been going on for a long time. When is "later"? What up and coming voice on the democratic side do we have to look forward to?
I have to vote, because my number one priority is trans rights and there's only one party that will do anything to protect that, but I don't do it happily. I understand too that the "vote blue no matter who" crowd has similar pressing concerns that require harm reduction. But I dislike the characterization of anyone who feels apathetic about the upcoming election as idiots or Russian bots. When you're only voting against a candidate, it's hard to feel motivated.
Yeah I see your point. Personally I think voting rights are important, especially in world history, and seeing people throw that away - to risk the country's future on making a statement - irks me a little. The most irresponsible way to make yourself heard, with the worst possible consequences. People in China and Russia don't even get a choice ffs. Plus it feels like Americans have had a four year reminder to learn this lesson already.
But I see how this feels shitty all around. I just hope people talk to one another and vote with their fellow countrymen in mind.
I'm with you. I love everything George Carlin did, except for his anti vote bits. Somehow voting is supposed to make you compliant in the current going on in government, is the argument.
The only way to change things is too consistently vote until the baby boomers are thinned out of their electoral advantage.
Carlin isn't wrong on the crucial parts.
The system is broken and cannot be fixed by voting. It must be dismantled and replaced.
But while we get started on the dismantling and replacing, maybe vote so that the current system doesn't deteriorate, break down and gets replaced by something worse before you have the chance to bring about meaningful and positive change.
For what it’s worth, both parties can be trash but one party actually can be shamed to doing the right thing once in a while.
People need to dig a hole and put their expectations of government in that hole for them to be low enough. Once they do that they'll be less disillusioned and won't think voting is a waste.
Majority of the politicians are slaves of AIPAC, probably from blackmail material. So none of them are worthy of voting for, much less, holding any political power in any part of the U.S.
Blackmail, or overt threats of harm to their family.
But even if they're beholden to Israel on one issue, there are still a lot of other issues at stake domestically. So this nonsense about none of them worth voting for is just bullshit propaganda.
Who I would vote for would be, for example, the third-party candidate I'm actually voting for.
The democrats can't be "shamed" into doing the right thing. They might be able to be pressured into doing it, and establishing a credible threat that you'll withhold your vote if they do something unconcionable is one way of exerting that pressure. They have exactly zero interest in the concerns of people whose votes are guaranteed.
And if they are completely unresponsive regardless, then the only hope of having our concerns listened to is to unseat them, by means of a third party. No matter how unlikely or how long it takes, it's still more likely than the possibility that Biden randomly starts caring about Palestinians out of the kindness of his heart.
And why do you think dems would be pressured by 3rd party voters instead of just shifting their policies to the right to attract moderates? The third party voters seek a humanitarian leader who doesn't exist and couldn't possibly thrive in the current American politcal system. Seriously give me a name for this potential candidate.
Why would the dems concern with people seeking a politician they could never provide? Shifting right has already won them an election with Biden, against the most charismatic Republican politician of the last decade. Either the dems win and nothing happens, or the republicans win and the dems shift right to attract moderates.
-
Leftists are abandoning Joe Biden and this will ensure Donald Trump's victory
-
Actually, Joe Biden is very popular and he's going to win in a landslide. Anyone who says otherwise is a Russian shill.
Rolling these two ideas in my brain like a pair of baoding balls
Where have you heard the second one? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that.
This opinion is all over cable news in the US.
Even the Biden campaign claims that “polling is wrong” and he will win comfortably. The hubris is astounding.
However, to those who would post memes like this, pointing out these types of delusion is tantamount to supporting Trump. It’s an incredibly unhealthy alternative universe to exist in, and the only outcome of doing so will be a crushing Dem defeat come November. I’m not even talking about swing states here - even in New York Biden is only up by 9% now because of his unwavering support of genocide and refusal to improve the path for immigration, among many other shortcomings.
They're called Benoit balls
Sorry, I can't even say it without adding "balls". Physically impossible.
David Benoit's Balls
Never seen anyone but the "Biden needs to earn my getting off my couch on election night" leftists say the second one
-
The situation is actually quite simple.
If you want Palestine to survive, your best bet is to vote Biden.
Literally every other option will only lower their chances. You can't have everything you want, welcome to life.
"Genocide Joe" doesn't matter when the other option is Turbo Genocide Donny.
So if there is anyone who tries to convince you to not vote Biden, they either want Palestine to die, or want to cause chaos in your country. Which is most likely a Russian bot.
Hi I'm your local Russian bot, if genocide is gonna occur either way and biden hasn't done anything about it past some political posturing then you might as well punish biden with the possibility of setting a precedence moving forward that supporting genocide won't get you re elected.
Doesn't matter if you make this the last election we ever have now does it
They actually don’t give a shit about Palestine because they’re Right-wingers posing as leftists.
This conspiracy theory is even less plausible than the, "Everyone who disagrees with me is a secret agent" one.
I've seen right-wingers pretending to be leftists before and if you can't get them to drop the act and start screaming racial slurs within 5 minutes, that's on you.
You're voting Genocide Joe. Gotcha. You support genocide. Gotcha. Just admit you want genocide already!
As a real American of color red blood born into the Ohio oblast of the American Union, I agree!
Having standards is a bad thing, just vote for your team even if you'd hate what they do.
Republicans did that decades ago, and now have trump.
The only thing stupider than them doing it, is all the "moderates" saying it's easier to convince millions of people to follow them off the cliff than convince the DNC to start running candidates that Dem voters want to vote for...
The fact that trump has won 50% of his elections and looks to be 2/3 in a few months should make everyone reconsider the quality of candidates we're running against him.
Not getting mad at the people honest about the situation while there's still time to do literally anything to prevent trump.
The fact that trump has won 50% of his elections and looks to be 2/3 in a few months should make everyone reconsider the quality of candidates we’re running against him.
After the Dems last lost an election, you got Biden as your next candidate. Why are you expecting this approach to suddenly produce a candidate you would like?
I don't, that's my point.
"Blue no matter who" always ends up with candidates more conservative than we want.
So even like in 2020 where we all and together and get a Dem president, House, and Senate, nothing gets done.
Because too many Dem incumbents just don't agree with the party platform.
The only time the party pushes is when progressives try to have standards.
The only result is the party keeps getting more and more conservative. It's not a valid long term strategy
Republicans did that decades ago, and now have trump.
I might argue that Republicans didn't do that decades ago, and that's how they got two Bushes, a McCain, and a Romney. It wasn't until they abandoned the "electable" moderate Republican and embraced their ideological id that they got to their political messiah.
The fact that trump has won 50% of his elections and looks to be 2/3 in a few months should make everyone reconsider the quality of candidates we’re running against him.
I gotta say, I noticed the folks running in the GOP field and they all sucked hard. Trump was the raw meat candidate, but he wasn't even the most fascist asshole on the ballot. DeSantis was the guy who got off waterboarding people at Gitmo for a living. Hailey couldn't name a country she didn't want to bomb. Hutchinson's fundie base would have him rounding up the cast of RuPaul's Drag Race and marching them to the gas chambers. Only Ramaswamy is the kind of sociopath business conservative more fixated on looting the country than mutilating its residents.
Trump's given them license to go full mask-off, but he's not uniquely bad. He's emblematic of a party that's also frothed with bigotry, and just found a PC way of displaying it right up until a black man got into the White House.
Not getting mad at the people honest about the situation while there’s still time to do literally anything to prevent trump.
Biden won 2020 by 40,000 votes across three major swing states. He's losing all three - PA, GA, and AZ - by two to three times that under current polling. The theory that we can just Tinkerbell him back into a second term is simple cope. Biden's goose was cooked as soon as he fumbled the bag in his first 100 days.
Blaming 20-something tech savvy voters on Lemmy for hating the man over his genocidal support of Israel won't shift any of the critical swing-state 40-something blue collar voters angry at him over sun-setting all the COVID era public spending measures.
It’s the economy, stupid
…and for most Americans the economy isn’t that great. Sure we ducked the recession that should have come, but while “line goes up” is great for Wall Street and the economy as a whole, the delayed impact means that improvement does little for the suburban and rural working class voters whose only exposure to the stock market is their 401(k). That’s decades away from paying anything out, while right now they’re feeling the pinch of stagnant wages and corporate driven inflation
I'm not sure how it works in the US but join the democratic party and vote for the presidential candidate you want to see. If it doesn't work out and you don't like the democratic candidate but said candidate is still better than the Republican, still vote Democrat.
I’m not sure how it works in the US
Yeah. If you think primaries matter, you don't know how it works here...
But one DNC lawyer’s argument actually tries to justify the party’s right to be biased on behalf of one primary candidate over another, according to an article from The Young Turks. In other words, they could have chosen their nominee over cigars in a backroom.
Their legal defense for interfering with the 2016 primary was literally:
Who cares? A primary isn't a real election and doesn't matter, we don't have to listen to results.
The fact that trump has won 50% of his elections
That would mean Biden has won 100% of his elections.
General presidential?
Yes...
That's what numbers mean.
If you include primaries tho, his first try at president was 1988, 36 years ago. And he never stopped trying, just never was a good enough candidate till the only standard became "not trump".
Jokes on you. I'm trying to vote for the big dawg.
I know I have no way of convincing anyone of this, but I am not a Russian bot (living in the UK and not being able to vote in the US election).
But these are exactly the points of view I have been expressing over here about the Tory and Labour parties. Maybe not so much the "not voting at all" one but the other three? Yeah -- that sounds a lot like me right now.
(I think you should vote for someone you believe in, rather than voting for someone who is not someone else, if that makes sense)
But definitely not a Russian bot :)
I think you should vote for someone you believe in, rather than voting for someone who is not someone else
This would be the ideal situation, but for so long as we have first-past-the-post it's a fundamentally ineffective way to vote. Thanks to Duverger's law, unless one of the two big parties just so happens to coincide with your views then the best you can do is to vote against whichever of the big two you dislike most. "Big two" here depends on your constituency - it may not be Labour and the Conservatives locally, but it is true that virtually every constituency has at most two realistic options. Labour may not be very good, but if they're in power it's probably at minimum going to make this a better place for asylum seekers and trans people (or whoever the Tories would go after next), and Labour's voting record on the environment really is far better than the Conservatives' too.
Well as long as you have your pride as the world burns down around you :)
It's already burning, and you're actively participating in one, if you haven't noticed. But hey, my teams going to keep it under controI, the people dying are not even white, so it's cool.
It's optimal for US to come out as fascist and remove all doubts, so that rest of the world can move away from appeasing a military complex disguised as a country. The civilized world will deal with it.
People actually believe that country that actively supports current and harbors past war criminals is the one that's keeping the world from burning. No, you're just like Russia and China with good PR.
But you can't make any more arguments without moving to hypothetical bullshit, deflection, personal attacks and whataboutism from brainwashing, so I won't fault you.
-Signed, Pick your flavor of bots (Russian/Chinese/NK/Iran/Cuba/Aliens) you like and feel better about yourself
If you vote for the green party then its less likely to burn down around you :)
well that's because labor did become much more similar to the tories with that cunt blair when thatcher was in office, didn't it? the difference isn't as small in the us, however disappointing it might be.
democrats are center right but not straight up fascist as the republican party is today.
at the very least they're trailing behind the population when it comes to social justice. the republicans are completely against anyone except straight cis white males having any rights.
they talk about trans people a lot but they already started taking women's rights away. who's safe? gays? black people? leftists? you can say both parties are disappointing but it's a joke to say they are "the same."
also AOC talking about the election last time had a good argument for Biden despite her differences: forget who you support. but who do you think will be more responsive to arguments and protests? if it's Biden, you might or might not pressure him to do some things. if it's the other guy, you know he will not listen.
the exception seems to be genocide unfortunately, but it won't be better under the guy who triggered and facilitated all of this while he was in the office in the first place.
and I'm sorry but you can't expect the democrats to come to their senses on their own. if you think not voting for them will suddenly make them think they should appeal more to the left, historically you've been wrong; the only lesson they learn is that they should appeal more to the right because the right is winning despite being a minority. that's how their deteriorating minds work.
It's easier for them to call you/anyone a bot than admit any of the viable options have many many issues
Edit: people here don't seem to like pointing out this fact
Can’t believe it took this long for me to see this meme. Plenty of photos of internet soldiers, but haven’t seen it memes till now.
I did voter drives in 2016 and 2020 The people I met say the same things. I am in now way saying that voter interference is not a thing. Encouraging voter apathy is a easy way to influence American elections.
When you don't vote, how can anyone reflect on why they did not get your vote? At the very least write in a name like "Sanders" so the caucus can say, "well, it seems we didn't get this vote because we were not progressive enough."
Obviously, it doesn't mean the parties will change but maybe they will think "We almost had this state. If we change slightly maybe we can grab 25% of these independents in the next Senate race."
I get paid by the US government to shitpost
When we are all headed to gas chambers because Trump won, I hope leftist "no voters" and "3rd party voters" can take solace in the fact that they personally didn't dirty their morals by voting for Biden. Because the last hours of our lives, I will be brutally taking the piss out of you all and loving every moment of it.
I find it hard for you to justify the default position is the democratic party at this point. It's you who failed to change.
When Martin Luther King Jr said the white moderate was the biggest stumbling block of progressive politics he meant shit like this That favors order over Justice.
When it said that you cut a liberal in a fascist bleeds they mean you.
I'm an American that lives in a very blue state. I will be voting third party this election because my state and my vote will end up going to the blue team anyway. What I know is that if a third party gets 5% of the vote they get funding in the next round. I don't know about all you guys, but I am tired of constantly picking the lesser evil and having every election I participate in be the most important election of our lifetime (so far
But sure Just say I'm a Russian bot. I'm sure that won't distance people even further away from your politics.
Donate and campaign for your local ranked choice voting groups https://fairvote.org/ - if you aren't engaged in changing the system, you should be.
Until we have change like this, I'm still voting for the person who sucks the least, because I know only one of the two mainstream candidates will win.
I already am a part of a local organization for ranked choice voting. That's great advice. People should definitely do this. It would make everything so much better! 👈😎
From your last sentence, I'm assuming where you vote is in contention and since that's the case, I think you're right. I do want to say if you're like me living in a non-swing state that is always going to go for the same party. Then have a little fun with a third party vote.
That's because you have the privilege of living in a blue state and our votes going towards an electoral college rather than popular vote in most cases. I voted Green Party before seeing her in the Russian op photo. National doesn't matter as much as local votes do
Just want to say this is the only sane take. I am donating and supporting the Green party in hopes of 5%, then we'll see the Dems actually get off their ass and give some scraps to the struggling working class of this country.
Thank you, comrade.
I will be voting for Claudia Taylor Cruz or Dr. Cornell West myself, but in the event I can't get one of those, Jill Stein (green party) would be my next pick. 👈😎
Are you voting for Bobby Jr, Cornel or Jill?
Because Bobby's the only one who might get 5%. Would that be saying you are okay with his policies?
What are you going to do in the next election cycle to make sure the nominees align closer to your values?
For me, it'll probably come down to Dr. Cornel West or Claudia de lacruz. I would vote for Jill Stein if those two aren't viable at time of voting. All three of these candidates are closer to my values than any of the party nominees I've seen in my lifetime.
Rfk seems to have more in common with Republicans than anyone else and they're my least favorite. I just generally find him kind of gross and grifty
If the nominee doesn't align with my values in the next election, I will continue to do the what I am now. pushing people to vote for third party politicians that do align with their values in non-swing State situations.
Welcome comrade bot. We are not quite legion but if we can get these Liberal airbags to stop voting for genocide politicians maybe we can actual have change. Lol remember Obama and "Change".
...you realize MLK was talking about people like you that would rather throw your hands up and do nothing than help, right?
If Trump wins, minorities and LGBT folks are in danger. That's on you. In the same way that white moderates are critiqued for sitting around and doing nothing in the civil rights era, people who are sitting around and doing nothing against the rise of fascism in that way because they don't want to take the time to focus on who's in danger are to blame. You are the modern white moderate.
I'm not doing nothing. I'm in a non-swing state that'll go Blue no matter what I do. So I'm trying to organize people to vote third party so we can actually get a party that represents the people in. What are you doing??
It wouldn't be on me because I know how the electoral college works and I know that my vote will go to the Dems regardless because I'm in Maryland, it'll be blue as f*** regardless of what I voted for. If you want to spend money, I will bet you any amount of money you would like. That Maryland will be blue and all of its votes will go to Biden. Honestly that second paragraph's Is just protection man. If you are actually doing something or just confused than Good luck to you.
Amazing, you really think that don't you.
Lol, this is new. Olgino trolls in uniform.
I can imagine their daily checklist
- Paint grass green
- Paint dirt black
- Write comments about not voting
for Navalny
Not sure why the "uwu" was necessary, but okay.
Nothing to do with rigged elections or propaganda. People are realizing that neither party represents the people. It's a fact.
Neither party representing the people is very very different then saying both parties are equally damaging.
That's pretty misleading because it depends on what you mean by "the people". And the more complicated, less-emotionally satisfying reality is that both candidates were essentially chosen by different groups of "the people" in contested primary elections in 2016 and 2020. The system is inefficient and in fact designed to uphold the status quo, but still allows people to change it. And trying to change it by voting is a far more effective strategy than not participating and hoping the extremely status-quo biased corporate media somehow gives you attention and takes your side as a result.
It's actually quite simple.
67% of the US public want the government to call for a ceasefire.
That's it. Neither party will do it, therefore neither represents the people. Talk all you want about primaries or whatever, but the reality is that neither party represents the people on this.
It's not up for debate.
This is what the meme is about, people. This is the enemy.
Absolutely, this is a huge opportunity for the Green party to grow
What some folks hear: "I'M NOT VOTING FOR EITHER BECAUSE BIDEN AND TRUMP ARE BOTH THE DEVIL"
What is being said: "Why the choices geriatric dickhead who wants to let Israel commit genocide and OTHER geriatric dickhead who wants to let Israel commit genocide? I'll still vote for my geriatric dickhead but I'm really not happy about it."
Folks can't force me to be happy about being required to vote for the lesser evil because the two party system is horseshit, and they should really stop trying. If they want me to be an enthusiastic voter maybe they should put forth candidates who don't fill any part of "geriatric dickhead who wants to let Israel commit genocide". There has to be one or two right?
If Gaza is the only political issue you can be bothered to care about then yeah. Sucks to be you. Maybe 2028?
You can always vote party for socialism and liberation instead. Their platform includes Palestinian statehood and an end to weapons shipments to israel.
When the votes get tallied, each one that’s cast for a party with anti-genocide platforms serves as incontrovertible proof to the two major parties that there is real electoral support they could gain by dropping genocide from their own platforms.
And in doing so you throw away your vote, potentially allowing Trump to win just like in 2016, and then we will quickly find that
- the LGBTQ is thrown even harder under the bus, resulting in deaths
- abortion becomes banned nationwide, either de facto banned or explicitly, also resulting in deaths
- project 2025 gets going, further eroding what little democracy we have left
- even more conservative justices get sworn into the SCOTUS, ensuring a conservative super majority for decades to come
Under no circumstances can we allow these things.
Nyet comrade
Your Liberal bullshit is tiresome.
If you don't have preferential voting, the only party worth voting for is the one pledging to introduce it. It would solve this bullshit overnight.
Instead, people are fighting over which neoliberal to elect; the slightly more progressive one or the significantly more fascist one. Both of them are going to put the profits of wealthy donors ahead of human lives and neither is a true solution to mounting problems.
Fuck, not only will this not stop the genocide (because Israel doesn't actually need the weapons in the first place), you won't even solve the bots and propaganda. Israel has an extremely sophisticated cyberware unit and they'll just join the Russians trying to get Trump elected.
I'm so weary of this.
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake seeking a candidate to vote for who reflects your own hopes, dreams, and values and this worthy of your blessing. That's not how voting works.
You have a two party system. You need to vote for whichever is to the left of the other. That's it.
If everyone voted for them they would have a mandate to move further left.
The more you moan about neoliberalism the more you muddy the waters for others less well informed than your good self, who will simply not vote at all.
You're on the train headed over the edge of a chasm with only two throttle settings: fast and slow. You need to set the throttle to the slowest position. That's it. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, so don't even try to think about stopping the train.
Look, the democratic system of the United States (and some other countries now) is kind of a historical novelty, and its political and economic power is not an axiom. It can, and will, be lost someday. If blithely shrugging our shoulders and picking the least-worst option election after election isn't working, well, we can look forward to the plunge off the lip of the chasm, or we can try to change the system.
I understand that many people are satisfied with the "slow" option, or at least in denial, but please accept that many of us are not.
I am, actually, a beautiful and unique snowflake seeking a candidate to vote for who reflects my own hopes, dreams, and values and is worthy of my blessing. Whether you think I'm being reasonable or not is irrelevant, this is what I believe, and if the democrats want the votes of me and people like me, then they better start acting in a way that convinces me they deserve my blessing.
If everyone voted for them they would have a mandate to move further left.
They have precisely zero interest in moving left regardless of how much power they're given.
Username checks out
Hey, fellow Russian agents of lemmy, does anybody wanna form a union?
These working conditions are shit. We have to deal with insufferable liberals repeating the same pro-genocide arguments over and over. Yeah yeah, if we try to strike they could send us all to the front, but tell me honestly - can you really say you fear death after interacting with "vote blue no matter who" people all day?
Honestly, this whole thing seems like a waste of time. How are we supposed to convince Americans to oppose genocide, especially when the victims aren't even white? Like, come on, they didn't have a problem when their government was slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan, they're not gonna suddenly turn into moral actors just because we say the right set of words. When in history have these people ever cared how many foreigners die because of their government's actions?
In conclusion we deserve a raise if we're going to keep dealing with these people and if our bosses decide to shut the whole thing down in response, that's probably for the best because frankly this whole "convince Americans to oppose genocide" thing seems like a complete waste of time.
It is naive to believe that the empire was built without the support of its citizens, they know that all wealth they enjoy comes from their and their allies imperialism around the world, so murdering brown people around is just a collateral. and if you bring that up you are either a bot or lack enough intellect to understand the need for western imperialism around the world.
I'm proud to express democracy by voting for Jill Stein, no matter how much liberals don't want to accept that.
I don't see what's wrong with not voting for neither political parties or being completely disinterested in politics that's completely reasonable. You have a choice in these elections you can vote for a turd sandwich that stinks to high heavens (like bill Clinton) or a giant duche (like George w bush) sometimes doing nothing and not dwelling on something as mediocre as politics is the best course of action. It's much much healthier trust me. Get some real hobbies. I'm going try my hand at CB radio.
this honestly made me cakle. voting for the party that doesnt want to open up federal lands to more oil exploration takes an hour once, maybe a couple hours at worst.
you don't have to choose either voting or your cb radio hobby
Who says you have to agonize over the decision? Just pick some opinions at random and go for it. I'm not kidding.
Russian bots are to Republicans as illegal immigrants are to Democrats. Lose/Lose.
Anyway.
I 'member the Cold War with immigrants when we all almost nuked each other.
Well, at least one of those are actual humans.
Blue maga no matter what. I hope Biden helps Israel even more after he wins. Israel has a manifest destiny to the land.
You're trying way too hard my man.
Zionist bots in full force to keep their two party system in place.
First of all what the fuck does Zionism have to with it. Keep your conspiracy bullshit. Second of all how do you believe you can personally influence whether or not the first past the post voting system may be replaced?
Isn't that crazy. Everyone is allowed to scream about Russian bots in order to defend Genocide without any proof and people upvote it to the top.
But pointing out that the biggest Biden apologists are notorious Zionists and actively defended israel committing Genocide the past 7 months triggers all the concern trolls asking for conclusive evidence
