Drinking lead can damage people's brains, but Kansas Attorney General Kris Kobach opposes a plan to remove lead water pipes.
Drinking lead can damage people's brains, but Kansas Attorney General Kris Kobach opposes a plan to remove lead water pipes.
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In their letter, the attorneys general wrote, “[The plan] sets an almost impossible timeline, will cost billions and will infringe on the rights of the States and their residents – all for benefits that may be entirely speculative.”
Kobach repeated this nearly verbatim in a March 7 post on X (formerly Twitter).
Buttigieg responded by writing, “The benefit of not being lead poisoned is not speculative. It is enormous. And because lead poisoning leads to irreversible cognitive harm, massive economic loss, and even higher crime rates, this work represents one of the best returns on public investment ever observed.”
So, Kobach et al's complaint is that the plan to replace lead pipes is underfunded and so probably won't cause enough of an impact on lead levels in drinking water to even bother, and yet the reason it's underfunded is because Republicans specifically voted to not fund it properly. So instead of funding it 100% (or close to 100%), they chose to only fund about 1/3rd of what it would cost to replace all of the lead pipes.
It almost seems like Republicans want potential voters to imbibe neurotoxins that will negatively impact their IQ, harm their ability to concentrate, and make them more easily swayed by emotional appeals. I wonder why that could be?
Since they were only given 1/3 of the budget, they should announce that they’ll only be removing lead from low income districts (which the Republicans have red-lined into being largely black neighborhoods). See if fomo changes their minds.
It almost seems like Republicans want potential voters to imbibe neurotoxins that will negatively impact their IQ, harm their ability to concentrate, and make them more easily swayed by emotional appeals. I wonder why that could be?
This is my tin foil hat explanation. Also poor areas with more black and ethnic minority people are more likely to have lead pipes and it leads to increased crime and violence, thus further stoking racial tensions and increasing support for racist policy and therefore republicans
It almost seems like Republicans want potential voters to imbibe neurotoxins that will negatively impact their IQ, harm their ability to concentrate, and make them more easily swayed by emotional appeals.
It's probably that they're reaching for straws on anything they can complain about. Which works when their lower iq voters see that there is controversy.
I love how they say it could cost 47 billion dollars and this was only for 15 billion so they fight to say replacing the pipes is highly underfunded. The request was for 45 billion and his party demanded lower amounts and only allotted 15 then went on to call it underfunded now to try to get it canceled.
They say it could take years to get inner city places like Chicago all taken care of... So let me guess, their plan is to wait longer and hurt us more, doesn't that usually mean you would start immediately?
American conservative beliefs are not based on reality. That seems obvious, especially to this crowd, but like, the conservative dispossession of reality-based beliefs goes deep. Their version of rationality is adherence to an ideology and that is how they interpret the beliefs of others.
In this case, it manifests as opposing the removal of lead water pipes in the honest belief that, regardless of their danger—which is speculative to this idiot—it's too expensive and "infringes" on rights. The value of lead pipe removal derives from whether its economically beneficial and its comportment with his idea of what infringes on rights, rather than on...you know...the scientifically proven damaging effects of lead.
Because he interprets the beliefs of others as perceived adherence to some ideology (which he almost certainly doesn't understand), he dismisses the solid scientific evidence as speculative. It's ideology vs ideology for him. Scientific claims are just another ideology.
To generalize, that's why the pro-life movement "helps" women, that's why be against welfare "supports" the nation, that's why supporting Putin "defends" liberty, and that's why voting for Trump makes America "great". It's not about real results, it's just pure ideological adherence from the bottom to the top. It's fitting that Trump is their messiah. He's the greatest bullshitter modern politics has ever seen.
Their version of rationality is adherence to an ideology and that is how they interpret the beliefs motives of others.
Motives is a better word than beliefs. Other than that I've come to the same conclusion.
Conservatives deeply depend on ideology. This is why they say everything is a slippery slope, because their own plan is to keep going with their ideology. They can't understand that others want to do one action, without some secret grand plan to ____.
I came oh-so-close to moderating a conservative community and I am quite vocally opposed to conservatism.
I'm hoping that maybe some conservative communities on Lemmy are moderated by normal (non-conservative)
people who can keep the conservatives within the bounds of their instance's guidelines. Perhaps this is one such moderator. That would certainly be better than letting conservatives moderate a community. We've seen how that turns out.
In other words, for those that tldr: Conservatives could be incredibly kind and might often actually do the right thing, if they weren't total idiots. Problem is: They believe too hard literally all the time and base their self off an ideology built on narratives, true or false.
Problem is: They believe too hard literally all the time and base their self off an ideology built on narratives, true or false.
I don't think that's a conservative specific thing there, and if you do odds are you're doing the same thing but privileging the ideologies and narratives you are using in a way that you don't think they count as narratives or ideologies but as either facts, justice or something along those lines.
To put it another way, I suspect if I asked for a list of your ten mostly firmly held and allegedly defensible political beliefs and we really drilled down to the bedrock on them we'd hit some bits that are more ideology or narrative than you'd be readily comfortable to admit. Or cases where you built the position around a principle that only applies when it otherwise neatly aligns with your preferred ideologies and narratives.
For example, pro-choice people tend to be able to invoke one or more general principles that they often claim being pro-choice is an example or expression of (bodily autonomy is a popular one), but it's shockingly common for nearly the only controversial case where they'll apply those principles to be abortion (and I say this as someone who is pro-choice).
Kelly Oliver (philosophy professor at Vanderbilt specializing in feminism among a few other topics, ironically including ethics) once argued that feminist theory isn't about producing true theories or false theories but rather strategic theories - in other words it's not about whether or not it's true but whether or not it is useful for activism. This sounds shockingly like something conservatives might say about some of their hot button claims of the moment if they were being unusually honest.
My conspiracy theory is on some level, conservatives are aware that their worldview is at least in part a symptom of lead poisoning induced brain damage, so they rely on lead poisoning for votes.
Those people coming to read you water meter, nope, that's just a cover! They're actually putting lead pellets into a secret chamber to contaminate your water so all the tests upstream of you show its safe!
Considering all the conspiracy theories involving fluoride in the water supply, you'd think they'd catch on to the actually dangerous lead in the water supply and come up with conspiracies involving that instead.
The weird thing about conspiracy theorist types is they never want to talk about real conspiracies, just shit about how they faked the moon landing with 5g chips
Lead paint was banned in the U.S. in 1978 because of its toxicity. This stuff can and will kill you.
Conservatives need to stop treating every deadly poison like a "who can chug the most beer contest." This isn't a game (unless you're a company seeking to bypass lead restrictions, in which case it's totally a game to YOU).
Here's something wild: it was only banned for residential use. As long as the paint is labeled 'for industrial use only', manufacturers can go crazy with the lead. Despite the common misconception of lead exposure via paint being primarily due to "eating paint chips", it's mostly due to the inhalation and ingestion of the dust formed by friction and the gradual breakdown of lead paint. To get to the point, living downwind of any business that still utilizes legal lead paint means you may be exposed to lead.
I’m sure there are legitimate needs for leaded paint. Probably for environments where containing RFI or radiation are a concern.
I’d also think that it’s such a niche need that it probably has a cost premium and not something anybody would willingly choose to use over latex or oil paints.
Ingesting lead can and will kill you, and it will impair your cognitive functioning in the meantime. Lead was banned from automobile gasoline in 1975, but it was too late. There are small amounts of lead in the air and water, almost everywhere, that will remain for centuries and that were not there before cars,
Reminds me of a movie scene where they trick some capitalist into thinking he drank water that he was responsible for contaminating but swore it was safe.
Need to get this fool to believe he's affected by the lead. Not a far leap for the way he is talking.
As an actual water service professional, I kind of get it. If you control pH and add corrosion inhibitors like orthophosphate, lead pipe are not a problem. Flint fiscal managers decided to skip this to save money.
Unfortunately the plan is a largely unfounded mandate ($15B won’t even cover 10% of lead lines) with a timeline that will further jack up the price due to everyone competing for materials and contractors.
The vast majority of lead poisoning comes from old paint, not lead water pipes (and leaded gasoline before that … or now if you live downwind from a general aviation airport as piston aircraft STILL use leaded gas. Yet we won’t ban that ‘cause rich people own those planes).
Not that it isn’t good to remove lead. It’s just the aggressive timeline. It would be smarter to have a longer timeline where it is paired with replacing the main as well, as it is a smaller marginal cost to do both at the same time. The corrosion control can buy us plenty of time. I personally have a lead connection and a state licensed lab detected zero lead in my water.
But to phrase it as a state’s rights issue and claim the benefits are speculative is stupid.
As an actual aviation professional, I'm going to object to "waterworks made of lead pipes: too expensive to fix. 100LL aviation gasoline: Rich people refuse to change."
First of all, rich people own jets, which don't burn leaded gasoline.
Aircraft tend to last longer in service than cars do; airplanes are expensive machines. You'll also find that they don't change very quickly because certifying aircraft components such as engines is a very expensive thing to do. Plus, YOU go get an insurance company to cover a new type of aircraft they don't already have accident statistics for.
But, things are happening. So lemme tell ya what has, is, and will be done to reduce and eliminate leaded gasoline from our skies:
The Light Sport rule. in 2004 new certification standards for aircraft, pilots and repairmen were created which opened up the small end of general aviation. We basically didn't have anything that resembled Europe's "ultralight" rules. USA's Ultralight rules (FAR part 103) more closely resembled Europe's "Microlight" rules. The vast majority of light sport aircraft are powered by Rotax 900-series engines, or Jabiru or the occasional Continental O-200, all of which can run on unleaded automotive gasoline. Every single hour of instruction I've given to a student has been on unleaded gasoline. There's a proposal right now to expand the Light Sport rule that will do anything from increase the scope of what can be certified as a Light Sport Aircraft, and to open their operating limitations. For instance right now as I type this it is illegal to operate a Light Sport Aircraft for compensation or hire except to provide flight training. They're looking to open them up to things like aerial photography, pipeline patrol etc. which would not only allow these operations to be performed on unleaded gasoline, but less gasoline overall. A Cessna 172 burns between 6 and 8 gallons of 100LL per hour, a Flight Design CT burns between 2.5 and 5 gallons of premium MOGAS per hour. Every operation that can switch to a Light Sport Aircraft can reduce their carbon footprint and eliminate their lead footprint.
Diesel engines. I've seen both Cessna and Diamond install turbo-diesels based on some Mercedes-Benz engine, intending to run these on Jet-A fuel which is and always has been unleaded. It's been slow going though; Diamond only offers this on their Twinstar model (and they had some issues with it for awhile; there were some made with Lycoming gasoline engines) and Cessna canceled theirs.
The EAGLE initiative has set a goal to Eliminate Aviation Gasoline Lead Emissions by 2030 by finding a fuel acceptable to replace 100LL in service. This is non-trivial, the testing on all the various engines in service on some surprisingly old aircraft, not only their power plants but the fuel systems as a whole is significant. Many airplanes can't tolerate ethanol as a fuel additive because it will react with sealants used in the tanks and lines, for instance.
Rich people have prop planes. You don't have to be Elon Musk private jet rich to be rich. If you own even a 1960s Cessna 172 costs tens of thousands, not to mention thousands a year in maintenance to keep it airworthy, with regular inspections and overhalls, not to mention storage costs as you will need a hanger or at least a tie-down at some airfield. If you own an airworthy aircraft, you are well within the top 10% at least, and likely in the top 1%. I really am tired of people who act like because there are people far richer than them that it somehow means they cannot be rich. There are degrees of being rich.
If you want to talk about lasting a long time, try houses. My utility banned lead as a connection material in 1953. But there are 140,000 that were installed before then that are still active. We are not getting a pass on it in 2024 like aviation does.
Led gasoline was banned in 1996. The EPA started to phase it out in 1973. Aviation has had plenty of time to get moving on alternatives, but they have drug their feet. They don't get kudos for doing something about lead now.
First of all, rich people own jets, which don’t burn leaded gasoline.
I can't speak to the rest of your post, but if you own and maintain even the smallest Cessna for personal use, you are rich to me, and you are rich to anyone I've ever known personally, and you are rich to most people. That's like saying owning a Ferrari doesn't make you rich.
The Brookings Institution, a social policy think tank, noted that the actual cost of replacing all of the nation’s lead pipes is closer to $47 billion. The Biden administration originally requested $45 billion for the project, but congressional Republicans negotiated the amount down to $15 billion. The institute also noted that replacing pipes in crowded urban cities like Chicago could take 40 to 50 years.
So it is underfunded, because Republicans didn't want to fully fund the effort.
Also, when they talk about "homeowners" replacing their lead pipes, what they really mean is "landlords." Homeowners have an interest in replacing lead pipes because there will be an ROI when they sell, and also the improved quality of life (not spending money on lead filters or bottled water, no cognitive impairment, etc).
The losers in this situation are the corportate slumlords for whom it will cost more to replace water pipes, and who will not see most of the benefit. They'll have a hard time justifying raising the rent by saying "now the water is no longer toxic."
Having a nice buildup of lead in your body actually blocks the 5G signals that your COVID vaccine nanobots would otherwise be receiving from the government, actually!
Don't forget about Congressman Hank Johnson who was concerned about Marines being stationed in Guam because of his fear that "the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize."
I think this (well, Community) gives people hope that there are better versions in different timelines. Dash those hopes, there is only one reality, this is where they are. No rolling dice out of this one.
Did no one read the article? All of his complaints are correct! Replacing old city pipes, that are almost assuredly covered in years of internal layers to mitigate lead leaking, will have a negligible to possibly even negative effect on lead at the tap. Even Brookings said so in their study! Buttigieg is getting a total pass here ignoring the real issues raised by just rebutting about how lead is bad, when they're both saying that. So tired of people scoring cheap political points on soundbites, and Buttigieg doesn't usually fall prey to that sort of thing.
Yes, the funding should have been higher, but if we've only got 15 million to work with, it might actually make more sense to do targeted fixes in low income communities in old residential buildings, where you're most likely to have lead effects actually being felt at the tap from (relatively) newer lead pipe still in walls. But that would be expensive and much harder than just replacing water mains, so they're doing the easy less-important work first, rather than getting the biggest bang for their buck.
Kobach later responded to Buttigieg, writing, “What’s speculative is that the admin’s EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] rule will have ANY EFFECT AT ALL on lead in tap water. It doesn’t touch the pipes in buildings where most lead pipes are. You’d know that had you bothered to click the link [to Kobach’s February 9 statement against the plan].”
Yeah, he's not questioning the toxicity of lead, he's questioning whether this effort would make a difference in lead content.
The KS AG has a point; if it's expected to cost $47B, but the actual funding amount is $15B (...which is the fault of Republicans), then the plan may not have a significant effect for the families that are most at-risk, e.g., poor families in old, poorly maintained homes. The obvious solution is to increase the appropriation.
It may be, but nonetheless it is presently a mandate that is vastly underfunded. Water utilities don’t get to just shake the Pentagon’s couch cushions for spare change.
As a regulator for water resources I know industries will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars flying attorneys across the country to debate the validity of a $1000 field penalty for an illicit direct discharge to waters of the state and US.
It is often safe to say if the industry's argument is talking cost and funding alone, then they have no legitimate or technical justification to oppose. Their cash reserves are at stake either way.
From what I have heard the inside of old lead water pipes is usually covered in several layers of calcium carbonate, at least in areas with hard water, these layers prevent the water from getting in contact with the lead. So if you live in an old house with lead pipes you do not need to panic. New lead pipes that lack this calcium carbonate layer are what is in fact dangerous to health and therefore should not be installed anymore.
Edit: Downvotes for stating facts that do not fit the popular narrative, really? Reddit moment ...
Can you promise that every internal surface is covered? Completely? And will remain so?
I guess that is a rhetorical question? The obvious thing to do would be sending a water sample to a lab and get it tested for lead, which is much cheaper than replacing all lead pipes based on just a suspicion. If you got old lead pipes and the test comes back negative you know for sure that all surfaces are covered in calcium carbonate.
Replacing all poisonous, permanently brain damaging lead pipes should be a no brainer
Only if the water in fact has lead in it, which often is not the case with old pipes, as I explained.