“The feds are staging a civil war, and Texas should stand their ground,” a GOP Congressman tweeted after the Supreme Court ruled for the Biden Administration.
They do this all the time. Maybe Biden should call their bluff, execute his powers as Commander in Chief, and order the National Guard in Texas to turn on State Police.
Yeah, heading into the 2018 midterm Trump tried to create a border crisis. It didn't work. This is their election trick, create a lot of smoke, rile up the base, think that it will rile everyone else up.
I mean let's look at the core aspect of Abbott's argument from his statement.
That is why the Framers included both Article IV, § 4, which promises that the federal government “shall protect each [State] against invasion,” and Article I, § 10, Clause 3, which acknowledges “the States’ sovereign interest in protecting their borders.” Arizona v. United States, 567 U.S. 387, 419 (2012) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
Right out the gate, Abbott is based his ideology on a dissenting opinion. That is, the NON-MAJORITY finding of the court in Arizona v. United States. In fact, Arizona v. United States indicated explicitly that enforcement of the border was the sole privilege of the Federal Government. So right out the gate Abbott is literally using a case that ruled the opposite of the determination he indicated in his statement.
Additionally, Art. I, § 10, C. 3 of the Constitution.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
Historically this was used for Native American invasions of property and so the key factor in cases around this is "will not admit of delay". Texas is not burning. No historical read of this section of the Constitution supports immigrants coming into the Nation. By definition as we have it thus far, Texas is not being invaded. Additionally, Scalia's conceptualization of this section, no other Justice has joined in on that understanding. So outside of the opinion of a single justice, a Governor just saying "I'm being invaded! I get to invalidate federal law!" nobody else has ever indicated this is the way it should be read.
With Art. I, § 10, C. 3, you can say "I'm being invaded!" But you still have to follow the law. You can fight invaders and maintain the law of this land, they are not mutually exclusive things, no matter how hard Abbott or Scalia wishes it to be otherwise.
And finally, the Art. IV, § 4 argument.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Again, no court would uphold that Texas is being invaded. But Abbott is adamant about Biden "isn't enforcing…" And the thing is, Governors do not get to legally make that determination. What laws are and are not being enforced by a President is the sole prerogative of the Executive branch. (Wayte v. United States)
The Governor of Texas cannot just unilaterally make a determination that the President isn't XYZing. That's what the court system is for and distinctly the thing that Abbott has lost. If the Governor felt that the President was not holding up their end, they have every right under Article III of the Constitution to take it up there. Which that's what Abbott did and lost. Also, why when he was questioned if his defiance would be upheld by SCOTUS, he merely indicated that he felt the 5th Circuit would uphold it. Meaning, he knows that SCOTUS will overturn any determination the Governor is making on this front.
And with all of that, his core argument has nothing. It's easy to pick apart. Now here's the thing, Gov. Abbott is not stupid in the legal sense. He's quite aware that his determination is unfounded. He's banking on stirring the pot enough to make either Biden do something so that can be plastered all over the place or getting the issue fresh into his base's minds.
And like I said, this is exactly what they did 2018 and lost. Abbott is just trying to get under everyone's skin and he seems determined to spend as much of Texan taxpayers' money in litigation to do that one thing.
Again, no court would uphold that Texas is being invaded.
Which is good because if we classify border-crossing migrants as "invaders" then not only does that mean really bad things for them, it means Abbott was funneling invaders further inside our borders by paying to bus them to denver or fly them to chicago or whatever else.
It's pretty clear he didn't think the treasonous implications of this particular initiative through very well.
Great analysis. I genuinely think Abbott is also trying to make as much work available to conservative lawyers as possible, like a jobs program for assholes.
I'm in favor of calling the bluff, but leave it peaceful:
Army bases remain US army bases and the national guard remains US. Texas must raise its own military without any US military equipment. Existing US servicemen must resign if they wish to join the Texas military, and will be treated as foreign army -- they must leave US bases.
Any companies headquartered in Texas will be considered foreign companies and subject to all relevant taxes and laws. Employees will be considered employed by foreign companies. Any subsidizes and other credits to these companies are forfeit.
Employees of the state government will be considered foreign state agents.
Trade deals must be negotiated with the US. Any US facilities providing goods and services, like water or energy, will now charge a fair market rate.
Texas must renegotiate trade with other countries.
For the first five years, Texas and the US must allow people to freely move out of or into Texas. If any Texas resident wishes to live as a US citizen, Texas must pay for their relocation.
After that, or if they choose to renounce US citizenship, Texans are considered foreigners and will be treated as illegal immigrants if they enter the US without proper documentation.
Texas universities lose all US accreditation. Current Students may transfer to a US university at no cost, and have their existing credits recognized. Texas will pay for any moves. New students from Texas will be considered foreign students and applicants for admissions and tuition at US universities.
Any attack on US people or property or facilities will be seen as an act of war.
Texas senators and house representatives are expelled from Congress.
They'll be crying and begging to rejoin the US within a month. They'll be a fourth world hell scape within a year if they don't.
This is basically what happened at the beginning of the civil war except the south had much better terms, and the confederates decided to attack a US army base because they're assholes and that's what assholes do. They would absolutely do the same again.
Since when have Replicunts given a shit about the constitution? They treat it like they treat the bible. Twist it into fitting their narrative and ignore the parts that don't.
Texas immediately becomes the newest Narco-State, gets it's own CIA coup and Democrats refuse to make them a state again, forcing them to be a territory.
There's a US mint in DFW, Houston refines the majority of oil for the US, I think there's some US gold stored in a fort north of Austin, not to mention all the corporations that have HQs like Lockheed Martin. Not sure if all the corporations would be able to get out quickly enough or if those would be tx companies needing an international trade agreement.
Floridian here. I prefer the execution idea - it's a better use of tax dollars than paying for lawyers (GOP donors, of course) to argue on behalf of deeply flawed state executives.
As someone who actually lives here, I would be very hard pressed to find someone who actually thinks secession is a good idea. It has been years since I've met someone who didn't consider it anything more than a joke or bit of (false) trivia.
Be aware that Lemmy is a pretty radically legt place. It isn't where to go if you want nuanced takes on stupid conservative talking points.
Why would anyone want nuanced takes on stupid conservative talking points? They're not worth listening to because they're not grounded in reality or knowledge of how the world works.
You can't have a functional democracy if you don't listen to the other side. That's literally the problem we have right now, a bunch of boomers who scream socialism when you try to feed their starving children or get people access to medical care.
I say this all the time, but that's everywhere in the US. When I first moved to Pennsylvania, a friend told me that it was Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, with Alabama in between. Then, later, we moved to Minnesota, and it was the same thing: The Cities, a couple of outliers like Duluth and the college towns, but MAGA signs everywhere else.
If the electoral college didn't make elections so unfair, politics in the US would be more sane, and more liberal.
Cities and the immediate surrounding areas are pretty normal and liberal.
I'm not so sure about that.
Comparing Austin to Houston (for example) you'll see two quite different mindsets / philosophies going on. And Dallas/Fort Worth seems even different from the two other cities.
former texan... man, they really want it, even if it seems bonzo crazy, they'll try to get it. I'm really pushing fam down there to get out before it gets worse. The GOP doesn't care about winning by the rules, as evinced by Abbot and Paxton's disregard for laws they don't like and recent fights with the - checks notes - yeah the supreme court.....
I can't and won't put anything past the texas conservatives / GOP anywhere at this point, if they have the opportunity to wreck things they will - they don't think consequences through and don't care about patriotism in a sense that most people do. I'd should refer to them as Texas Nationalists.
While this is true, your elected officials are acting as if it's really on the table. You may not be able to find a Texan who says they want secession, but it's not hard to find one who would vote for it.
As a Texan who wants nothing to do with these absolute fucking morons, but whose life is directly impacted by their asinine whims: please don't encourage them. I can't afford to leave yet.
I'm in the same situation. People seem to forget that just under half of the 30 million people here aren't conservative and don't want anything to with this
Always nice to know people are looking out for us, right?
Essentially telling a madman with hostages "yeah, do it, pussy. Bet you won't," just to see him reap the consequences, but conveniently forgetting state-wide consequences don't only affect the people you want them to affect.
Here's hoping it just turns out like the last time these jerkoffs talked about secession. Maybe, if we're lucky, we can finally get rid of Abbott. If we're really lucky, maybe his replacement won't be as psychotic, either!
I don't get why Biden doesn't do this. The fear is abott will say government over reach and that will be a talking point for the election? How about strong father figure, who enforced the law to keep us united?
I guess the flip side of that though is it's really past when everyone should keep trying to reason and compromise with these screaming toddlers. How many times now have we seen this exact thing play out where Republicans act completely unhinged and Democrats treat them with kid gloves and keep offering them compromises and trying to appease them. Fuck em. Ignore them until they cross the line, then come down on them like a ton of bricks. No more playing nice, no more treating them like reasonable adults. Wait until Abbott puts his name on something legally incriminating then send the FBI in to haul him to a jail in DC and try him for sedition. Bonus points if they can swing the death penalty.
No matter what Biden does, they're going to do what they're going to do.
Ah, another Innuendo Studios fan, I see. Yes, just like he said in "Alt-Right Playbook Ep. 3, 'You Go High, We Go Low'",
Republicans are going to cry "So much for the tolerant left!" no matter what form our opposition takes, so the obvious solution is to just ignore them. But clearly it's more complicated than that, or we wouldn't be having this issue.
This business with the border is another example of them going low, and Biden and Democrats trying to keep the moral high ground.
They do realize that without Texas, the United States will probably never have Republican leadership again for decades at least, right? So if they don't live in Texas, they are kind of screwing themselves.
This statute outlines certain types of assault against a federal officer and the appropriate charges and penalties. Penalties for Assaulting or Resisting a Federal Officer A simple assault of a federal officer carries a $100,000 fine and up to one year in prison.
For example, simple assault is forcibly assaulting, resisting, opposing, impeding, intimidating, or interfering with federal officers while performing their duties. As noted, physical contact or injury is not required for a conviction.
Simple federal assault is a Class A misdemeanor that carries up to 1 year in jail and fines of up to $100,000.
(b) Enhanced Penalty.—
Whoever, in the commission of any acts described in subsection (a), uses a deadly or dangerous weapon (including a weapon intended to cause death or danger but that fails to do so by reason of a defective component) or inflicts bodily injury, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
If they touch a Federal agent, make an example out of them & their immediate supervisor via a Conspiracy charge.
I don't think there is a single legal expert that doesn't agree Biden has full authority to shut Abott down, especially since even the supreme court agrees with Biden.
Like what is even the problem here? Abott is killing international asylum seekers by placing razor wire in contested zones.
If Canada placed razor wire on their border and started shooting and deporting Americans, we'd be talking about the ethics of using nukes.
Maybe we should let them try, huh? I give it maybe a month before all their net-taker money runs out and their dipshit Republican policies turn the whole place into Mad fuckin' Max.
and remove all military spending. Texas is a huge benificiary here - tons and tons of aerospace like Lockheed and Bell Textron, rockets on the coast, enormous amounts of defense spending happens here.
They actually do have an army. Most states have a state guard or reserves/militia.
Edit: I did research and the state guards are branches of the national guard placed under the control of the state. Meaning that they are in the U.S. army, as the other user states.
Those are US Army soldiers, paid by the US government. Control of the state reserves is only delegated to the Governor, because that makes sense. The individual governors can freely send them to areas which are in need. But the President can take back control at any time. If the governor of Texas decided to take the reserves under his direction and attack the US, they'd be placed right back under US control.
They are not a "Texas" army. They are part of the US Army delegated to Texas.
Oh look, that's so cute. A bunch of idiots who never read the constitution nor know of our history. Secession is illegal and cannot happen. The union is unbreakable. I live in Texas. Please liberate us.
They are creating a gold backed cryptocurrency as we speak! The holy grail of currency that cannot be manipulated like fiat. Texas is a step ahead of the rest.
Awesome. Bye. BTW, no more federal aid, and you'll need a passport to leave in either direction now. You'll have to negotiate your own new treaties with us and Mexico for... well, everything.
Hahaha good fucking luck. We all saw Uvalde, we watched your government let people freeze to death at home. Go ahead and try but historically oil rich nations with authoritarian leadership get some of that sweet American™️ freedom by force.
Texas is a big place but I don't know if it has the capabilities support itself as a sovereign country and have a full scale war against 49 other states. That being said secession is a bumper sticker cause for most who support it not to diminish the threat but I think they are obviously overplaying their hand.
I suspect it wouldn't be 49 other states- I'd bet that there's several other equally stupid states that would happily join them. Definitely Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and maybe Florida would join in. But I bet if Biden tried to call their bluff and pull all govt funding and military bases from those states they would freak out and change their tunes fast.
They wouldn't freak out right away, they probably think their militias are more capable than the US military (what with 'woke officials' and trans rights n such), so they would be fine, until someone like Mexico (or even just a cartel from Mexico) decided to take back historically Mexican land.
“The feds are staging a civil war, and Texas should stand their ground.”
That’s not a post by an anonymous user on a fringe messageboard. That was a post on X by Rep. Clay Higgins, a GOP congressman from Louisiana, who was responding to the Supreme Court’s ruling that the Biden Administration—and not Texas—has jurisdiction over border enforcement.
I wonder what the strategy of this rhetoric and defiance is. I don't think it's just about immigration. I imagine they are trying to get favorable precedents set by the right-wing courts. I could also see, in the not too distant future, blue states defying a Republican-controlled federal government on things like a national abortion ban and anti-lgbt laws, so ideas and precedents normalized here could be applicable there.
Yeah this is remarkably short sighted of red states. They want to ignore the supreme court? When the majority of Americans are furious about their decisions?
I am not a conservative, I'm not a liberal either I'm just some dude but seriously are we all just cool with swaths of illegal immigrants coming in all the time? Like, literally nothing to stop them just giving them a hand up over the water? It just doesn't seem like a good long term strategy, does it? I mean we can't just walk into Canada if we feel like it either. Idk man Texas has a lot of issues but them saying they are enforcing their border because the feds just let undocumented people walk right in doesn't seem that wild for real. If someone kept breaking into your house and the police did jack shit about it (which they really would) what would you do?
I don't think it is a fair comparison to say breaking into someone's house is equivalent to claiming asylum.
I also personally just don't understand the issue with increased immigration - it gives us a larger labor pool, and counteracts our declining population.
I am positive I know my political leanings. It is true, there are a vast amount of immigrants crossing illegally across our border. If you cross illegally, it is by definition illegal. Which I do understand some laws are unjust but you shouldn't blame the state when the feds won't do anything to help them enforce what they say is illegal.
I know people love a simple answer that makes sense on the surface, but you’ve oversimplified this issue to the point of just being categorically wrong.
A better analogy would be “someone came banging on my door saying that someone was going to kill them and I felt obligated to let them in. Now too many people are doing it and I wanted to live alone so I’m making them pick fruit for $2/hr and now my income depends on these people but I don’t want them here, what do I do?”
Obviously stupid as well but it touches on some of the nuances that the “breaking into my house” analogy doesn’t.