Wake up sweetie, the next stage of work has dropped.
Wake up sweetie, the next stage of work has dropped.
Yes you should take it, if you got no other options.
Then you immediately update your CV with your new job title and jump ship for more pay. If the orginal company offers to match the pay you say "you had the chance to pay me more. If you valued me that much, you could have paid me that much from the start"
Don’t go back on your intent to leave for a better job. Some employers will see you as disloyal if you take the raise and stay. You’re usually better off leaving anyway.
There is rarely a situation where you should allow your employer to match the offer you have in hand.
They had the opportunity to do so and then failed to properly retain you. If they realize how much losing you will cost them in productivity, that's on them, not you.
It's not personal. It's literally business.
Yup. You're liable to be downsized in a couple months anyway.
This. My buddy/former manager accepted a counter offer and lasted less than 6 months before they fired him, and made his working life miserable during that time. Just reinforced the mentality in me to never trust the counter offer of a place I already want to leave.
Yep. Soon as you commit to looking, you commit to leaving.
I told my last supervisor about every interview I was on; how it went, what I thought, etc. After a year I left abruptly (ie the pace at which they'd fire me). They were surprised, even after I'd been telling my supe about my hunting for a year.
I cannot understand why this is so hard to get. People on here whining about their employer using them. Well, yes they are. Use them back. It's just business, it's expected on both sides of the table.
Last three times I jumped, I increased my pay by $12 -> $22 -> $32. I could go again, but I'm kinda fat, happy and lazy ATM.
One of the biggest hurdles for me is the gap in medical coverage and uncertainty of what is covered next. I have a genetic condition that requires very expensive medication. Jumping jobs and hoping COBRA payments aren't insane is a big risk, so I don't feel confident jumping quickly between jobs if one doesn't work out.
This right here.
Yep. Enjoying about $400 more per paycheck after my last employer shuffled my duties around for no additional compensation. "Duties as assigned" being vague works both ways.
Never heard of duties as assigned, but that is fucking bullshit.
I guess the part I don't get about everyone saying to take it and immediately start looking for a new job using your new title is that the new job doesn't ask you how much experience or time you have with your new title?
Like, do they really not ask for 2+ years experience in that position or do you just lie to them or do you say, "Yeah, about 3 days now!" ?
From what I've heard is recuritment has a sort of preference for candidates.
So that's starts: People they know that can do the job.
People that they know, that know someone that can do the job.
Then I guess it would be people already doing the job.
So you're not going to be in as good of a position as someone that has 2+ years in the business. But what it does show is that the company you worked for, for a while, thought you was good enough to promote to that level. It's definitely going to make you more likely to get the job at a competitor. If it doesn't just keep apply for 6 months. By that time you will have 6 months experience.
You might need a month on the job, ratger than 3 days, just to show you been trained to run that job.
Also just because a job says 2+ years experience doesn't mean they wont overlook that. It's just that's what they prefer.
The reasons for me to change job would be:
- Better salary
- Better work/life balance (less commuting or less hours)
- Less responsibilities
- A work that better fit my values
I’d only accept a “dry promotion” to improve my resume. Then I’d quit.
Here's a secret: your resume is whatever you write on a piece of paper. You can just get a volunteer role if you want to be a director or lead something.
Don't ever work for free unless you care about the end result. And definitely don't ever work for free for your own company. You can't be paid what you don't ask for.
Maybe you get paid the same but work half the time? (won't happen, but would be a 'dry' promotion I would take)
Nope. I want the promotion, the increase in salary and the halfed working hours.
That’s probably not how it would work, but it’s worth clarifying.
If it's a promotion to less work, maybe.
Maybe.
Is there a risk of more responsibility and more risk in general? Meaning if something goes wrong, you can get fucked easier?
The way those those "maybe"s are used, are trying to illustrate their elevated doubt. So like "if 3 independent lawyers all agree I'm not getting fked."
That's not how this works at all.
You keep doing all your current responsibilities. Then you get these more with no additional compensation.
Do it for the exposure!
I'm definitely exposed to the elements because of not owning a home
I got a “dry” promotion at my last position, and obviously I took it. I then put my new title on my Resume, when job hunting for a few months and found a new position that came with a 20%+ pay raise.
I’m actually a big fan of promotions that don’t include raises, because it shows that your employer doesn’t actually value you as an employee, and enables you to get a much larger raise at a new company compared to whatever raise your current employer would’ve given you if they cared at all about retention.
This works great for highly educated white collars!
Not for the other 70%+ of the workforce though.
Why? Better resumé is a better resumé.
This is the way.
Always take the promotion. Then update the resume and start hunting.
Or skip step 1 and just lie on your resumé 😂
Preach it. I fought and fought to get my ASQs and CQEs (quality certs) as an automations guy. I worked in fda/dea/gmp environments with those systems so why they hell not. Took 2 years to finally get both and bailed immediately. Did all my bs six sigma bullshit along the way.
If it's a smash and grab for them then it's a smash and grab for me.
Capitalism 2: Slavery Boogaloo
Except Capitalism 2 is actually quite a fun computer game…
I took a promotion without a pay rise on the agreement it would come when pay was reviewed annually. A shit deal, but one I was prepared to accept on the balance of things. I made clear that if they didn't follow through then I would immediately demote myself and start looking for a new job.
Pay review came around and it was below inflation. I immediately demoted myself and started looking for a new job. I even requested an internal transfer that was denied (made them too much money where I was).
I handed in my notice a short while later and everyone was, to my surprise, surprised. I really didn't understand why the shock....until I learned in due course that most people don't follow through.
Funnier still, I returned 6 months later (due to a quirk in contracts) at double the salary in the dept I requested a transfer to.
Anyway my point is - do what is to your benefit, always. Companies can play games - as can you.
I handed in my notice a short while later and everyone was, to my surprise, surprised. I really didn’t understand why the shock…until I learned in due course that most people don’t follow through.
When I was a young adult, I used to work as a lab tech in a plasma center. That involved taking liter bottles of plasma, checking the computer system, filling out paperwork, drawing fluid and taking blood vials to run in a centrifuge, and frequently having to redo paperwork because the barely-trained phlebotomists kept sending them to me covered in drops of blood. Of course, this not only took longer, but meant I had to sanitize the entire area, change PPE, and get shit from the rest of the team for not just taking their biohazard-contaminated paperwork regardless. The room held 50 to 100 donors at a time, and the lab team was just two people.
My immediate boss would routinely just fucking disappear or taking random lunches, even during rushes, leaving me to handle everything on my own. She'd get pissy over small things, and spent time chatting with management in the offices, just hanging out, while I did all the work.
One day, she did something like this and left. I muttered to myself that I was going to quit. I finished the sample I was working on and went into the -40 degree biohazard freezer to store the sample.
Cut to a minute later, I came out of the freezer to see someone from management in the lab, saying "I heard you're quitting?"
...what?
She said "Fine then. Go ahead and go." (or something like that.)
I was stunned, but realized that my shitty manager must have heard me on her way out, and fucking told on me. I hadn't planned on following through, and was mostly just upset at being used, but now?
"Fuck it." I thought. "I said I'll do it, so I'll do it."
I'm not a good speaker, but I basically stumbled over some short apology like that I would have finished the work day first, but would leave now if she wanted to. Her reply was to get all exasperated, as if she hadn't expected me to do anything but crumple at being confronted, and she told me "Well, have a nice life then!" as I walked out the door. Never saw her or my shitty manager again. Years later, I did hear my shitty manager had gotten fired or something, for being shit at hear job.
I think I made the right choice.
(Edited for typos, so many typos....)
I want the games to end. Fun time is over
And their promises mean nothing.
So true. I've seen promises broken for a multitude of reasons: malice, ignorance, naivity, legality...we always reach for malice but it isn't always.
Same deal though - a company will break promises, so don't feel any obligation on your part. Of course this needs to be balanced with your reputation in your industry.
As others have said, you take the 'promotion' and IMMEDIATELY start looking for a new job with your new title on your resume.
Corporations are not loyal to you. Do not be loyal to them.
As a hiring manager, I'd never consider someone for the role they took on yesterday when recruiting. That just doesn't make any sense.
As a hiring manager I am sure you're aware that when consulting professionals in the recruiting field, many people are told to replace their old title with their new one. The position they reach is more important when moving up than the one they had for X period of time, and many employers won't dig too deep into it, especially if the potential employee can sell themselves.
You are allied with the crapitalistic corporaturds.
Your "meal" doesn't come with food.
Your "marriage" doesn't come with love.
Your "car" doesn't come with an engine
Do the above sound ridiculous?
Now re-read the headline.
Your “marriage” doesn’t come with love.
That part doesn't sound all that ridiculous, to be honest.
The other two...
Hey this basically happened to me. I got a 1 dollar raise offer for moving into a management role. Negotiating a higher pay Tuesday. Wish me luck!
Good luck, but when you are turned down you should recognize the red flag and start looking for your new, better job, leveraging your new title to get paid what it is worth.
That's the plan... I'm still in school and the jobs pretty flexible so I may stick it out for a bit but it's worth a shot.
Once got offered a promotion to make less. Made $15/hr as a "Junior" but got 1.5x Overtime and there was always as much overtime as you wanted.
Got offered a "Not Junior" full-time role for $30,000/year.
Just got up and left. Went home and started applying elsewhere. I know I was replacing a person who made 60k
Now I need to know if the next tier was, "Definitely-Not-Junior".
It actually swaps to "Definitely-Not-Senior"
More responsibility without a pay increase sounds like a scam to me.
And an amazingly easy scam to avoid, and yet so many people don't...
You assume it means more responsibility and often it does but not always.
For example the promotion might be to "Senior Widget Fixer" rather than just "Widget Fixer", possible it will recognise your experience but day to day not actually make much difference, until pay review or job hunting time. There are cases when it will make sense to take it.
So the industry that I was in for a long time was production based, meaning your income is reflected by your physical performance. It was extremely demanding and also quite high paying.
So, I got stupidly good at this job. And I rarely took on additional responsibilities, because that would actually mean more stress and less money. In this industry, there were two reasons to go into management: you either had trouble coping with the physical strain that came with this insane work, or because you wanted to hold power over others. But it wasn't a pay bump and it was more work/responsibility. Consequently the people who took this on were rarely the people who should have and the industry on the whole suffers accordingly.
Electrical lineman? Scuba welder? You have my curiosity.
I went to school with a guy that became an underwater welder. Two things I learned about that job, it's one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, and it pays a lot of money.
You wouldn't think it, but tree planter. A pretty quintessentially Canadian job. It's piece rate, usually between 15-50c per tree. I got to the point later in my career where I was regularly making $800+ per day, with a few days over $1500. It requires planting a helluva lot of trees though.
Not a year-round occupation, but it's possible to make a decent annual income by doing this seasonally.
Haha! I worked for a contract cleaning crew for some time. Turnover was very high since the hours and wages sucked. The only people who hung around long enough to become managers were eminently unfit to be managers. Seems like managers are destined to suck for a large number of reasons.
I was once asked if I wanted to be the project manager for a system I was working on. Purely a internal title with no pay increase. Lol, fuck no.
Increased responsibility = increased compensation.
Same here!
Them: How about liason-title with added meetings and responsibilities?
Me: Does it pay more?
Them: Unfortunately, it does not.
Me: Unfortunately, I do not work for free.
Of course you do.
The goal is not to earn more. The goal is to do fuck all.
Hahahahaha 😂... Oh you're serious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA 🤣🤣🤣🤣, fuck no.
Yes, take it. Then immediately update your resume with your new job title and look for another job.
No.
This is kind of dumb on the part of companies. There's a great reason to take these: you can market experience in that position when you're applying for jobs elsewhere. You want to give me SVP title with no raise? I will find someone who will pay happily.
One of the positive things I took from this absolute stark nutball I worked with, is the idea that it's better to be richer than famous, no matter what.
Taking a promotion and getting more visibility without a pay bump to match seems to break this rule.
Life doesnt have to be this way. We can thrive, not barely survive. We just need to keep trying new things till something works while we still have time.
How do we try new things? We do away with First post voting and get an opportunity to vote for people and political parties that have fresh ideas. With a electoral system like Ranked Choice voting, people would feel safe to vote for whomsoever they wish, as their vote would still be counted even if their preference didn't win.
Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is representedby their choices in the voting booth. More peopleinvolvedin the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
Some day we will be able to vote for who best represents our interests. We won't need to grovel on our knees, begging for representationin government. We won't need to wait for the Republican party to stop existing.
We can do it right now.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
Obligatory plug for STAR Voting, not Ranked Choice Voting. STAR voting better avoids situations where voting for a preferred candidate can cause a less preferred candidate to win.
You will never fix a rotted tree by bevpming part of the rot. Fuck all this voting shit. It's a distraction, and you will never get change without direct action.
Vote with your hands. Maybe build a guillotine, spend some time at the range, program light bulbs to feel bloodlust, whatever. Then maybe vote. But its pointless til then.
I only take wet promotions
Extra sloppy please.
Hell no!
By "it," do you mean the stuff in your office when you walk out the door for the last time after saying "fuck you" to such disgusting bullshit?
I think it's great. Promote your employees to leverage their "promotion" on their resume and find a higher paying job elsewhere. Too many people getting comfy with these corporations that couldn't give a rats ass about them.
Kind of an odd article, as sometimes there really are reasonable times for a “promotion” with little/no pay increase.
A lot of manual labor and trades positions require experienced people to be management, supervisors, etc. When you take a promotion in a field like this you might have “more responsibility” but the same pay, and that makes sense. Why? Well - because you’re not fucking breaking your back or manning a line all day. I think most people who have worked one of these jobs sees that as reasonable.
Unfortunately, most journalists and many people making online posts about the topic are people who have really only ever worked behind a computer, or ever worked in a big city - so these articles tend to focus on that kind of “technocrat” job sphere where everyone is just some variation of “computer manager person”
Nah, fuck that. Promotions should be coming with a reasonable wage increase in every job.
Did you not actually read anything I wrote.
In many professional circles, especially blue collar unions or close knit groups - there is wide transparency and a mutual understanding regarding pay. No one wants to be the fucker making twice as much money than the guys they just worked with who are breaking their backs in the sun while you run excel spreadsheets. It’s simply a different type of job
I know it can be hard to understand if you’ve only worked “computer jobs”, but not everything is a hyper corporate job that takes place in a tower or whatever.
You need to join a union.
What your spouting is corporate propaganda, designed to make you value your labor less. As is the "not making more than the others"-lie which oppressors have used to control their populations for ages.
But there are different perspectives to the situation, so for academical purposes, let's explore a few:
Labour market model; If you're doing work that requires skills, knowledge and/or combinations thereof that are harder to acquire, your rarity and thus value increases - you should be paid more in cash and/or benefits.
This includes institutional knowledge, how things are done at the specific workplace, including who to talk with and how.
Economics/value capture; If you're doing work that brings the employer more profits, such as organising, costing, budgeting or taking over tasks to let the employer scale up - you should be paid a part of those increased profits.
The case for cooperatives; If you truly would be equal, and comfortable, in a workplace there's much to be said that wage differences disturb that harmony, and you could see it as playing different parts in a commune.
This does however assume that you are all equally invested in the goal, it is profitable enough to compensate all of you fairly and equally, and enough that you are not wanting, or at least equally lacking. This is the case for situations like homesteads, communist society, and anarchist societies like Star Trek or The Culture.
Hmm...
From my perspective, the only reasonable way to get a promotion without increased pay is if you're working less (which 4-day week studies show isn't connected to weekly hours), and getting benefits to compensate.
And you're still saddled with responsibility for the whole crew, the whole job and coming in on budget. Mental work saves the body but at mental expense. Maybe C-suite and board should take pay cuts so everyone gets decently paid for quality work with quality tools and quality materials.
Again, you’re assuming there is a “c-suite and board” to every job and there often isn’t. Many many many people work for their local sewer company or whatever that just has a single owner or maybe two co-owners in it.
Yes, obviously people at the “top of of the pack” often make too much moneys but I don’t think anyone who has actually done hard manual labor for 10-12 hour shifts is going to tell you it’s so much easier than the ‘responsibility of coming in on budget’. It’s simply not the same.
Hatred of intellectual elites is one of the signs of fascism, BTW.
Anyway, you are not paid for breaking your back, you're paid for having a valuable skill. If that skill is just being a grunt, everyone can do it, you are replaceable. If that skill is managing grunts, only few can do it, you are less replaceable, thus can get a higher pay.
If you really think, moving into a superior role doesn't deserve more pay, you are being fucked by your employer. You don't understand the system you're working in and you're lashing out against those stoopid office workers because you don't understand that they are not responsible for your misery, your boss is.
No one is hating intellectual elites here. You are not an intellectual elite by virtue of being a computer programmer.
There’s a sharp divide between “computer socialists” and “blue collar socialists” in my opinion. You are the former, I am the latter. I understand that the person managing the laborers and the laborers themselves are probably entitled to roughly the same pay - as laboring fucking blows. You believe that the “managerial” class should always make more and more money.
This is a very interesting take and observation, thank you for sharing
Yes, I like Lemmy - but it’s almost bizarre how much of a monolith the user base seems to be. I’d think that every single person here was a desk jockey of some sort who has never worked a blue collar job in their life. And that really does warp mindsets regarding what the “average” work experience is like (again, similar to how many journalistic outlets seem to assume that the ‘average American’ works in a major metro city in a white collar office job)
In my current role taking a management position would not result in a pay increase becuase I already wear a few hats that give me slight bumps in rate and allowances so I'm effectively paid the same take home.
What it would mean is that I no longer have to go outside in sweltering heat, freezing cold or pissing down rain for 4 to 6 hours a day. Would I take a promotion with no pay bump? In a fucking heartbeat.
Nah, that's the wrong attitude. If they're giving you more responsibility, regardless of the quality of work overall, you should get paid commensurately, whether or not you're effectively taking home the same pay due to multiple hats.
Sorry to be a contrarian, but sometimes a change in title is a reward in itself, especially if it does not involve a change in job responsibility. In some large corporations, there are pay ranges that are determined by your title. It could be that you are on the higher end of the pay range for your existing role, so it is hard for your supervisor to justify why you should be getting more money. By giving you a dry promotion, it becomes easier to give you a fat raise during the compensation review season. At many companies, there is a certain time of the year to give people promotions and then later on in the year to give raises.
By giving you a dry promotion, it becomes easier to give you a fat raise during the compensation review season.
Easier for who? And how exactly? The idea that some schedule is stopping corporate from giving the lowly worker a raise becomes completely laughable when you see how they treat their top management, and has no validity either way - they make the rules, their hands are never tied by this kind of bullshit.
You're not being "contrarian", you're just regurgitating corporate propaganda, actively acting against your own interests by swallowing any of it, and serving them by repeating it to us as if it has any legitimacy.
By giving you a dry promotion, it becomes easier to give you a fat raise during the compensation review season.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It might be hard for the supervisor, but only because they are also part of an exploitative system not compensating labor fairly.
Pay ranges determined by title isn't fact, it's decided by the company. Having promotions given once per year as well, as is the decision to raise salaries at a different time.
Just as they can make sure to pay their bills on time every month, they can make sure to promote and pay their workers on time every time.
Yes, the supervisor is working from inside the system, but that means you're in this together and should rise together against the system. You both need to join a union.
… especially if it does not involve a change in job responsibility.
Key point. That would be worth considering.
At any company worth its salt, a promotion laterally to a new role could at least come with a nominal adjustment. 0% is absurd, but something nominal like 2% as a "performance incentive" towards new responsibilities would be reasonable.