I've seen a trend where people move the goalposts on the reasons they're not able to switch. "If only this program worked I could switch", but when that program is ported it'll be a new excuse next. Sooner or later you'll have to draw a line and say "99% of my stuff works, the 1% that doesn't can get bent".
Moving goalposts is a concept that applies to debates. Choosing an operating system shouldn't be a debate. It's a personal choice, or sometimes a professional choice. Convincing people who don't want to be convinced shouldn't be anyone's goal.
I switched to Ubuntu a few months ago and the only thing that doesn't work are a few online games due to anti-cheat software and those games I'll just play on PS5 now. I don't see myself ever going back at this point. Every issue I have encountered I've been able to resolve with a quick google search. Google search has been getting kinda shitty so that's the next thing I'm looking to replace.
If you’re willing to pay for a search engine, I highly recommend Kagi. I’ve been using it for a few months and I like the results better than Google or any other search engine I’ve tried.
Time to host your own SearXng instance
At this point I have used duckduckgo for years with no issues.
I had used Linux before so I wasn't too worried, but gaming for me was the reason. With Proton I had the desire to switch, but I needed something to just push me over the edge. I wasn't taking the leap on my own. For one Windows update it put the search bar back on the Taskbar, which I had told it to remove. Microsoft, once again, ignoring what I had told it before to try to force me to use something is the thing that pushed me over. It's such a small thing, but it'll be different for everyone.
I don't blame anyone for not switching. It's a fairly large change (though not as large as some imagine). Most people will just stick with what they know until something comes along that makes them trip up, and then the thing they know is seen as a hindrance. That's going to be different for everyone. We just need to inform people that, when that thing comes, there is an option for them that will handle pretty much whatever they need.
And the reason is going to be "enterprise" software, which is usually a pile of a flaming wreck that barely runs in its native Windows environment in the first place. So it is with the point of sale/inventory software I have to use for work. I can run it in a VM, but it explodes spectacularly in Wine.
Just install Linux parallel (most installers recognize Windows) and switch entirelly after you're fed up with the hassle.
Sometimes that's reasonable. If the stuff you need doesn't work, fighting it or pushing that boulder up hill is not worth it.
You may not realize certain things are deal breakers until they are stating you in the face.
that means they're lying to you so you stop asking
Diablo 4 and 3. Thats my dealbreaker
Diablo 4 works perfectly with proton experimental on my steam deck tho
Diablo 4 works on Linux, PlayStation and Xbox. Diablo 3 works on the same plus Mac and Switch.
https://www.protondb.com/app/2344520 - Platinum
And from what I can see Diablo 3 works fine with Lutris.
Diablo 3 has worked with wine for a very long time.
I haven't tried D4 but D3 works fine.
I want to use linux and will use it when two conditions are met:
-All my work software and the games I play the most all work on it (without requiring me to re-buy shit I already own to get a linux compatable version)
-Its user friendly enough that asking which version I should use as a beginner doesn't result in all the linux users immediately descending into the thread equivelent of a cartoon fight cloud with random limbs flailing around.Edit: Some feedback on the feedback:
-Apparently some of the linux versions are super user friendly but advice about this is totally inconsistent, some of the advice doesn't even actually name a specific version or versions.
-"It all works fine you just need to install thing A through thing B and then use it to run thing C in order to run this one single program from windows" is not as encouraging as you think it is. The thought of potentially going through that for every piece of software is at least for me a big reason for not switching yet and I suspect for a lot of other people too.
-The reference page for what games work on linux is helpful though some things on it only work if you use the steam version which is the precise reason for my not wanting to re-buy things comment.Edit: Additional question.
Is it mandatory to use the terminal for everything? Everytime I see people talk about linux or look stuff up about it the terminal seems to be everywhere. I'm somewhat familiar with the windows command line (which I assume is the terminals equivelent) but having to use that just to install software (as opposed to just running a .exe) seems really daunting.Having an opinionated and somewhat socially inept userbase doesn't mean the OS isn't user-friendly.
There are many linux distros that focus on being user friendly and they really are.
somewhat socially inept userbase
I'm way more socially inept than just somewhat
I second that. The friendliness of the main help forum(s) for the distro is what's really the key, moreso than the software itself.
And we'll fight to the death to decide which ones those are!
Oi, but I do agree.
man reading this was like seeing someone kidnap a mcdonald's employee and expecting the execs to pay ransom
For the last bit, that shouldn't be a problem. It's like going to an ice cream shop and complaining there are too many flavors and people arguing over which flavor is best makes you decide to just not get ice cream.
What you should do instead is look at the flavors of ice cream and weigh what you want with what each flavor is. Only you know what you desire. Windows wants to make their system work for everyone, so then it works for no one because everyone has different wants and needs. It's the ice cream flavor of them shoving every ingredient together and it just creates a mess.
As for games, it's pretty good now. There's the issue of some multiplayer games not having updated their anti-cheat, but a lot of anti-cheat is ready. Easy anti-cheat, for example, is fine if the devs have updated it and implemented it. However, it's not like Proton where it makes most things work without devs doing any work. Check ProtonDB for compatibility.
What work software do you need? There are alternatives for MS Office, including online versions of MS Office that don't require an OS. Blender is great. There are plenty of code editors. Most of the alternatives are also FOSS so don't require buying anything, though donating is encouraged.
I've had similar thoughts and sentiments in my (short) Linux journey, my only advice is to distro-hop a bit as many Lemmings preach, find your fit (in VM/live mode or separate machine) and dive right in.
Side effects may include hair loss in early introduction, stick with it, it's worth it.
For me it's...
- Visual Studio Enterprise (VS Code with a hundred plugins still doesn't come close)
- SQL Server Management Studio (though with extensions, Azure Data Studio has gotten me pretty damn close)
- Full-featured Office 365 software (Edge web versions are somewhat sufficient, but not quite there)
- Teams with multi-tenant. The desktop Windows app lets me quickly switch between the 6 orgs I need to, unfortunately on Linux I have to have 6 different browser profiles and use the web version which just doesn't fly.
- More responsive RDP. Unfortunately for server management I'm juggling 3-4 RDP instances daily and I'm not typically allowed to install AnyDesk or VNC or anything. I've tried a couple RDP alternatives and there were just all sorts of problems from keyboard issues to rendering issues to general sluggishness.
- There is one weird VPN program a job forces me to run and unfortunately it isn't available on Linux.
But! All the above said, I run Linux and have a Windows VM. And I also run Windows and have a Linux VM - so it's almost there for me. If work & clients all ditched Microsoft's ecosystem, it'd be a lot easier for me to but, unfortunately, they pay my bills.
Teams with multi-tenant. The desktop Windows app lets me quickly switch between the 6 orgs I need to, unfortunately on Linux I have to have 6 different browser profiles and use the web version which just doesn't fly.
Probably never gonna happen because Microsoft has an active interest in making it not happen
There is one weird VPN program a job forces me to run and unfortunately it isn't available on Linux.
Knowing the VPN I'm forced to use I'll just make a blind guess that the VPN you're forced to use doesn't support IPv6 either, because actually providing a product instead of an overpriced relic apparently is really difficult for Enterprise VPN Companies.
What games do you play? If you're playing through steam, you can search protondb.com for your games to see how playable they are on Linux.
Is it mandatory to use the terminal for everything?
No. Most distros have a GUI that you can use to install stuff without touching the terminal, and most distros have a GUI for configuring your system (think Control Panel in Windows).
It's not necessary to use the terminal, but I do recommend eventually learning how to use the terminal, for a couple reasons:
-
It's more ubiquitous - like you said, a lot of places online give terminal instructions, not GUI instructions for things, so knowing your way around the terminal is helpful in those situations. Plus, it makes things a little more distro-agnostic - if I'm trying to install some program, I know I can probably run
apt installregardless of whether I'm running Mint, Ubuntu, PopOS, or any other Debian-based distro that uses the apt package manager. -
It's usually faster. Opening a terminal window and typing in a few dozen characters is usually going to take less time than digging through a couple layers of menus.
-
It's more flexible. A lot of times, GUIs are just fronts for a terminal based application, and sometimes they only partially implement the features the terminal app exposes. By using the terminal app directly, you aren't limited by whatever options happen to be made available in the GUI.
Again though, it's not necessary to use the terminal. It's definitely helpful, especially if you want to do gaming, or if you're used to being a power user (which it seems like you are in Windows), but certainly not a requirement these days.
-
My experience is that you don't need the terminal as long as everything is running fine and you don't want to do stuff outside the standard repos.
But my experience is also that something will break and you're back to fiddling around in the terminal for hours
On the second point: pick whatever you like, distros are surprisingly similar and differ in technical details you might not even care about.
Oh, and don't go for Gentoo. Gentoo is great and has its place, but person with a healthy brain won't run this on desktop.
Distros being so similar is the entire reason why the comments about which is best for beginners usually descend into a mud slinging contest. Honestly most "popular" distros are perfectly reasonable for any beginner nowadays. But there is just so much choice it creates decision paralysis in people wanting to switch.
The first condition already are In practice tru proton and wine (even the principal anticheat work). But the second is probably impossible, people will try to convince you to use the distros that they believe is good
Saying that, Linux mind is a good option for a Windows user
If a piece of software requires you to re-buy itself for a different platform why would you use such an application? I don't get why people choose to torture themselves when there are SO many alternatives to literally anything.
Edit: thanks for the clarification on the re-buying part. Doesn't apply to you then ʘ‿ʘ
@nolight @CheeseNoodle I believe one use-case for those licensed paid programs are the business who truly need some trustworthy software and dedicated support. The FOSS might be great for personal use, but maybe LibreOffice doesn't fit every company's needs
Exactly. I have my setup just the way I like it for final fantasy. ACT (a packet capturing DPS meter) doesn’t work without windows. Once that’s supported I may hop ship.
I haven't played FFXIV since switching to Linux so I haven't tested this, but it seems there's a Dalamud plugin to have the ACT plugin working without having to deal with ACT itself. https://github.com/marzent/IINACT
If you use plogons (xivlauncher), you can use IINACT as the parsing plugin and either HUDkit for a separate overlay program, or LMeter (this fork that's still maintained) for a plugin overlay. I use the latter perfectly fine on my Steam Deck and my Linux desktop
A real Linux boi would rewrite the program from scratch custom tailored to his personal needs.
I run Arch , by the way.
I use gentoo, fyi
sploosh
i feel so incompetent compared to other linux users, like i didnt even know flatpak had a repair command until today
Meanwhile I'm over here, not used windows on my own machine in more than 1.75 years and I don't even touch the terminal most of the time, I know how some commands work, but I hardly touch them
I should really learn to do more with it, but I have my system setup and working how I like, So I don't really have motivation to learn to do all this other cool stuff
I've been using linux for 10 or 11 years and I also didn't know flatpak had a repair command, so don't feel too bad
Until remember patient exists and legally cannot create another copy. Sure you made one yourself but can never release it to the public.
Even without that, things can go really bad:
- You're the only developer, then you burn out on the project.
- You underbake the UI so much your project becomes infamous for how hard it is to use, complete with an elitist userbase that just screams "git gud" memes at everyone asking for help (most often happens to dev tools).
The rare occasion, it'll become like Krita, modern Blender, Audacity, etc.
If you aren't creating custom software to address one-off needs, are you really a Linux user?
How else am I supposed to run Bonzi Buddy?
It's a pretty simple Visual Basic 6 app so I'd be surprised if it didn't work using WINE.
Awww man I miss that purple lil asshole, I used to make him swear all the time when I was a kid.
Plus now I can't think of that Daisy, Daisy song without hearing his creepy little robotic voice.
The problem is mostly a lack of competition in specific fields. And the companies that own the monopoly in their respective niches make it so that any form of competition is either...
- immediately acquired and killed
- handicapped by market dependencies on pantented features
- unable to generate business because customer processes are completely dependant on proprietary solutions
Most of these applications have codebases that are FUCKING ANCIENT. Let's take a look at Solidworks for example, which is the industry standard for Computer Aided Design for the manufacturing industry. Under the hood, it's still the same software from the 1990's. And there is no incentive for Dassault Systemes to rewrite the codebase.
Lots of these giant monopolistic software products have turned into frankenstein-esque monstrosities over the years. I often tell people they are built like backyard playhouses that have been expanded over the years by building an extra story on top, adding a swingset, adding a slide, extending the roof and attaching a rope ladder to the side.
All of this makes for more functionality, but they haven't really thought about the structural integrity of the original playhouse. In a direct parallel many of these programs have unmaintainable code that no one dares touch because "hey it works, and we need to keep it that way because if we break it we're no longer getting payed".
These companies unintentionally hold their businessmodel hostage by choosing profits over innovation and investment in an adaptable codebase.
Which is why it is near impossible for them to support technologies that are different from their original install base. And this is also why they have incentives to make sure they stay in the lead becuase they know damn well that open source movements that get some support and take flight are dangerous to their market share, and by extension their profits.
Blender is probably one of the best examples of what good open source software will do to an industry. The day someone develops a parametric CAD solution that's platform agnostic and based on open standards we'll see a lot of engineers ditch Windows for Linux.
And when KiCAD gains enough features to make it able to compete in the enterprise space.
Altium still just has a ton of features that people use every day.
Cloud libraries, multi-channel design, flexpcbs, some good high speed tools, output job files, better curved traces for RF (though kicad melting + teardrop is ahead of altium in my opinion, though more clunky).
I have hope for FreeCAD now that Ondsel is on board pushing the community/enterprise split that OnShape does. They are shooting for a 1.0 next year. Though I think it will take until 2.0 to get it professionally usable.
I haven't dabbled that much in PCB design but I have seen some good things in KiCAD. All my electro engineer homies assure me Altium's the way to go for now though. Most of them also happen to be big F(L)OSS nerds so I'm curious to see where KiCAD goes in the future.
FreeCAD is an awesome attempt at building a parametric CAD modeler, though it will need a lot of polish to be usable. Especially on the UX side of things the software could do with a lot of improvement. As far as I know the most difficult part to program for parametric modelers is the actual geometry kernel, which is why so many modelers are based on Parasolid, including the recent hybrid modeler Plasticity. For a F(L)OSS parametric CAD modeler to truly succeed some genius needs to build an open geometry kernel that performs at least close to on par with Parasolid. But that takes a special kind of autistic in order to achieve. Either that or the engineering world needs to collectively decide this needs to happen.
As much as I hope FreeCAD becomes the open source alternative everyone is looking for, it is trying to be everything at once and that might be too ambitious for the current state of the project. I'm secretly hoping we also get a new project sometime soon with a smaller scope.
Can't force em, let them live with their choices.
I like running windows in a vm it's like having an animal in a cage you can poke with a stick. Not that I would do that. Hypothetically of course.
I'm currently testing my game library before I relegate windows to a cage, some teething issues as I expected but I'll get through it.
I will absolutely poke windows with a stick, preferably a pointy, barbed wire wrapped one.
I’ve run Linux for years on servers and in VMs in VMware Workstation, but not my main OS because of games. I’ve tried before but games just didn’t work well. Tried again recently and the games I’m playing now worked with no issues with Lutris and Steam. I could already do “everything else” on Linux so this is the longest I’ve gone without booting back to my Windows disk. Already have a Kali VM in virt-manager and will add a Windows VM if I hit an application snag. But so far haven’t had any app issues. If this continues I’ll be wiping the Windows disk to make more space for Linux.
But think of all the programs that don't even exist on Windows:)
Not quite a program but I fricking love KRunner. And Kate and Dolphin, though available in Windows, don't work as well.
AFAIK the Same situation with KDE Connect which I couldn't properly exist without. Also KRunner & Dolphin. Kate would be possible but hard AF.
Full on agree with KRunner. One of the MVP applications of KDE. So far none of the alternatives I tried on Windows 10 and MacOS come anywhere close to its power and elegance. Maybe Alfred which I tested years ago.
I could write 10 more paragraphs about why KRunner is one of the most advanced laucher/search/command application but I think everyone should experience it themselves. Best not to over-do it with the KRunner-plugins where an overwhelmingly long search result list could ruin your experience.
WSL ;)
I quite like both OSs but mostly for different reasons.
I had to crawl back to windows cuz i couldn't find a way to run xtoys script, that would trigger a shock collar on being hit/killed in elden ring
But no joke the thing keeping me on my main pc is the niche simulator peripherals. All my games work great but not the extra software I need.
If it's RGB stuff OpenRGB is a revelation. For mouses try Piper which is great too. Both unify the configuration of a lot of different brands in professional grade FOSS applications. There's also the commandline app Headset-Control for which some small GUI frontends exists.
Know nothing about graphic tablets, trackballs or steering wheels but I heard from good experiences. When it comes to VR though...
I'm paying the tech debt of not switching sooner.
I'm currently learning FreeCAD so that the one machine I still have sitting around to run Fusion360 can be liberated from Windows at long last. And as a bonus I won't have to keep updating NoMachine every couple weeks.
FreeCAD is such garbage though. In something like 6 months, CadSketcher blender plugin made something that was far more functional, and FreeCAD has been in development for 20 years and it still can't provide a logical, cohesive CAD experience.
Honestly, Solidworks is my hangup too, so I get the willingness to castrate yourself in order to just move to Linux finally. I'm thinking of moving over to their 3DExperienceWorks product that runs in the browser. If it handles my workflow, and I can get the cheap "maker" license without them ever asking me to upgrade it, then I'm finally down to switch full time.
The other big problem that I generally have is window-decoration and padding. I need to find a window manager where I can have things with embedded tabs but pixel-perfect edges. I like a single-pixel edge to my applications and as dense as possible window title bars.
Now that Firefox is releasing Wayland enabled by default, it might be the time to try again.
Is Rustdesk an option?
Might be, but all remote access software sucks to some degree. I'd much rather not need it all by not having an old windows box I need to remote into.
icome from solidworks and use oneshape now its cloud based but for personal use free and its pretty simmilar to solideworks
I'm not OK with all my models being public unless I pay.
I feel that the no machine updates are insane
Personally 6570 days without windows, and counting.
I am close to that at home but use windows almost every day at work. Cry in shower time.
6461 days for me
Just use a windows VM lol. Only problem I've encountered outside of that was a lockdown browser for school but I just put that on a burner laptop because there is no way I'm letting some rando have root access to my main pc
Come on that was half the plot of Skyfall after all.
Just yesterday I updated an 8bitdo controller's firmware. I just keep a laptop with windows around for this sort of nonsense. And no, it's one of the older ones that do not work with the android app, not that using the app is any better.
I have a GameSir G7-SE, and despite I still can't leave Windows for software development reasons, I feel your pain.
Most of the games I play don't run on Linux sadly. Even Lethal Company, which is perfectly fine on Linux, couldn't be captured by OBS, so I had to switch to Windows before I could stream.
Game compatibility is getting better but still not good
What about with the new... thing. Um. There was a thread about it recently. It did... a thing. A Wayland thing.
Somehow, my exhausted brain managed to turn that into a reasonable search string.
Gamescope. A Wayland compositor that lets you define virtual displays that run overtop of your regular desktop.
I have a pretty good streak without Windows, I use macOS and Linux, and everything I need is available. If not, I can use Wine, and it works. And Proton is just amazing, the number of games you can play with it without ONE SINGLE PROBLEM is just insane.
sadly my count will stay at zero because my work laoptop has windows 10 on it
I recently had to install windows to write a program for a friend, it was very annoying
I'm considering on programming a structural analysis program in my free time just to escape the windows 10 EOL and use GNU/Linux full time
Never happened to me.
Government stuff?
That's what weekends are for. No windows on my PC. The worst thing with this windows stuff at work is that it is needed for running some antique software that still needs win7. At least the win98 machine has been retired.
Windows 7 is yolo for a business. Support ran out in January 2023. But I guess it's some hardware it needs to support, right?
Had that for a few years in my life too. The enterprise ran on Windows Server, MS Dynamics, MS VPN, Exchange etc. and the Dynamics Server could not be upgraded for years because so much depended on it. It was a tremendous effort to do it at the end.
But I guess it’s some hardware it needs to support, right?
No, it is for some fickely software. There is a win10 version of the software, but it supports only a subset of the data that the win7 version supports for some reasons that make no sense to me.
🍷
Wait, that doesn't solve your problems? Damn, that sucks. (Get your downvotes ready)
