New "Calexit" bid for California secession approved for signature gathering in effort to put measure on ballot
New "Calexit" bid for California secession approved for signature gathering in effort to put measure on ballot
A new bid to place a measure on the ballot that would ask California voters to approve the state's secession from the U.S. has been cleared for signature gathering.
It's nice to think about taking your ball and going home. However, if we denigrate Texas everytime they threaten to secede we really shouldn't be giving California a pass.
Edit- fix fat finger spelling
I don't denigrate Texas every time they say they're gonna secede. In fact, I want them to. If they don't want to be a part of America, then let them go do their own thing. If that turns out to be a bad move for them, then that's on them.
This is stupid and a pointless gesture. Do something more productive with your time.
It's a moot point anyway, though, because the ruling post-Civil war (Texas v. White, specifically) determined that unilateral secession was not allowed. In order for California to leave they would either have to come to an agreement with the Federal government to do so (or a majority of all other state legislatures, or something... there's no precedent) or fight a war against the rest of the union and win, forcing capitulation and a concession.
Both possibilities seem extremely remote.
This is only posturing, and even if it passes it is not designed to result in California actually leaving the union.
CA better get their hands on some ICBMs. Keep one pointed at DC, and another pointed at Mar-a-Lago. It's pretty much the only way a state can keep its sovereignty.
I know Cali won't HAVE to, but can they join Canada?
If California could actually pull it off, sure. They're the largest economy in the United States, and a larger economy than many whole nations. Would any sane country turn that down?
I know that a Canadian lawmaker offered to take Washington, Oregon and California as new provinces in response to Trump: https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/canadian-lawmaker-offers-take-washington-oregon-california-new-provinces/LPFT7I4AYBGCLHBKVOB2TIFQOQ/
Other than the "state of Jefferson" I think all three states would be interested
The remaining Blue States should do the same. Common sense should prevail and it would allow the MAGAts to create their racist neo-Nazi White Christian slave run utopia dictatorship without resistance from those who support the US Constitution.
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Brexit was clever wordplay, every proposal since hasn't been. Fuckin "Calexit", do better.
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Yeah, you don't get to just leave a country. Believe it or not, there was actually at least one war about that!
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Fuck CBS for their cancer ass website.
Exit = vacate... Vacation...
Californication?
Dream of it lol
Caliagainstya
Californiout
Adding -exit every time a region leaves some kind of alliance is going to be like adding -gate to every American political scandal
You mean like watergategate? https://youtu.be/vB9JgxhXW5w
Caleaveornia
And Brexit as wordplay was just a rehash of the prior Grexit moment Greece had...
Californexit
Brexit was clever wordplay, every proposal since hasn’t been.
Same for Make Britain Great Again
Good ol mibga
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Remember how the federal government treated the south when they tried to secede. And people still celebrate it, not without good reason. But they didn't just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.
Well, there are two big differences.
The ethical one, the South wanted to secede to keep their slaves, and to clarify because the term slavery has been run ragged by propaganda, they wanted to keep their forced labour/death camps where they could kill, maim, rape, buy and sell people, also children, and have them do backbreaking, crippling work to enrich themselves.
On the other hand, California is contemplating this because the South, after losing their war, did a 200 year psyop to get a rapist and a bona-fide sieg heiling Nazi in power to force California to drop initiatives that would keep the Earth inhabitable and let their citizens live in peace.
The pragmatic one is that while the South was what it was, California is still an economic powerhouse accounting for 20% of the US economy. If they would secede, and bring a few like-minded states with them, it's not the least bit implausible that the South would be doing the burning again.
All that said, the Russians and the Chinese are salivating at this idea I'm sure.
And they were right to. Sherman and John Brown are national heros and we could use them again.
But they didn't just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.
Do that to CA and you're shooting yourself in the foot as the US
Destroying your most important ports and where more than 50% of your agriculture nationwide comes from is not a good idea
Absolutely nobody can accuse the right of being smart
Which is exactly why they would burn it to the ground. The federal government would never let California, let alone any state, secede peacfully. They can't risk losing those resources and would destroy them before allowing them to be competition.
🐻New California Republic🐻
And a fascist militia like Caesars legion willing to fuck around!
And the Dead Kennedys can write the anthem
California? You mean the state owned by the tech oligarchy that is (according to you) the current ruling class of the entire country?
🤣 You people crave an enemy so much, you can't keep your stories straight!
HQ wise: Musk exited to Texas.
Oracle is in Texas.
Microsoft is in Washington.
Amazon is in Washington.
Google, FB and Nvidia are in CA.
The tech bros don't want to hire people in CA because salaries are too high. They do because that's where a lot of coding talent is, but they also tend to have offices all over the world and produce as much work as possible offshore where labor costs are minimized. It's why basically nothing is manufactured in CA, let alone the US. When things are manufactured here it's almost always in places that use the $7.25 federal minimum wage, not states with a $16.50 minimum wage or where transportation costs are prohibitively expensive compared to local labor.
You understand that things change over time, right? Silicone Valley tech giants like Facebook had an extremely cozy relationship with Obama, and they've been heavily involved with Democratic politics for years.
Now they're pivoting right; Zuckerberg didn't donate to Harris this year, even though he'd donated $400 million to Democrats the previous election cycle, and he's now adopting Trump's, "anti-woke," bullshit. Musk, who made a killing on Obama's electric vehicle subsidies, is now doing Nazi salutes at Trump's inauguration.
A lot of this has to do with how social media algorithms are driving people down right-wing conspiracy rabbit holes. Democrats blame a lot of their losses since 2016 on, "fake news," and online misinformation, and have begun demanding small amounts of accountability from tech giants. In response, the tech industry has been slowly moving rightward over the last eight years, and now seem to fully embrace Trump.
So, yes, California is basically owned by tech oligarchs, and it is also mostly run by Democrats. Until very recently, those two groups weren't at odds, and now that they are, we are just beginning to see what that conflict will mean for California and the rest of the country.
Sorry California, you will have to negotiate with Colorado and Arizona for your water. So basically you have to take us with you.
The negotiating:
If you don't give us water we wont send you the good you need to live
You'll die well before us in that waiting game, baby
Aren't a lot of crops grown in Mexico and imported through the Arizona channels? Because produce is way cheaper in Arizona than California.
If they just kick out the alfalfa farmers and the almond farms, they don't need water imports.
Lots of peoole didn't read the article
According to the text of the measure, the state would be required to create a 20-member state commission to study California's viability as an independent country in 2027 and to publish a report the following year.
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If the ballot question is approved, the proposal would declare a "vote of no confidence in the United States of America", but would not change the state's government or its relationship with the U.S. The measure would also call for the removal of the U.S. flag from all state buildings.Well it's a start I guess.
Yeah, I can't think of a reason anyone would vote no on this. I'm excited to read their report.
Balkanization is beginning
Something that might work out better and would be a lot easier to do (thought still not very easy), would be to split into 3 (or 4?) states.
California has almost 12% of the US population concentrated in that one state! By far most of the states contain about 2% or less of the US population each.
By splitting, the population would be better represented in the Senate with 6 senators between them instead of only 2, and there might be a net gain in some other benefits that are given on the state level.
edit: I see that someone had already brought this idea up, but IMO it's a good idea that they should seriously consider!
The State of Jefferson would have started this process, but WWII got in the way. Except that was all predicated on being super racist.
I think if you get a legit Cal3 proposal, you might end up with a Cal4 where they pull from the six-state version where "Silicon Valley" is its own state shows up so that there can be some technopolis with custom laws and insane cost of living. Essentially, turning SFO into another Manhattan.
I would never move back to CA as it is, but if there was a breakup, I might actually go for it.
The racists all wanted to leave the US because it wasn't racist enough. However now the racists are in power and they don't want to leave anymore.
Careful. Texas has some long forgotten provision where they could easily do the same thing, into 5 states. and they'd all be red.
If they split California into 3, the northern state might be red (or swing) but the other two would definitely be blue because of SR and LA. Look at a map of election results by county.
With Texas, at least a couple of them would have to be blue because some would contain the blue urban areas. Same with FL, at least one new state would be blue. if CA, TX, and FL all did it. If they divided into 5 states it might even out. Of course there would have to be negotiations to get enough people and the parties to agree to the boundaries, which should prevent too much of an advantage to one side or the other, especially if people don't want their cities be split between two states.
But regardless of the results for the Senate, the point is that the people in most populous states of this country are not getting their fair representation in our federal government and that needs to change.
Then of course as long as we're altering our makeup of states, we have to give the citizens DC representation and make that a state. And Puerto Rico should be able to decide if it wants to become a state as well.
The right wing has wanted this for years because California is very conservative outside of its cities. Splitting the state up would guarantee a Republican Senate.
Depends on what you do with the cities. The Central Valley doesn't want to be its own state.
Honestly at this point I feel the US would do great by splitting and becoming a confederation (think EU styles autonomy).
I think the differences are just too big to have a functioning state.
I also understand that the push towards these movements is often done by Russian propaganda, who want to do anything to split up the US and NATO.
If political ideologies were geography bound that would make great sense. Break it up, let the pieces govern themselves. But the problem is not everyone living in a red state is a Republican or maga fetishist and not everyone living in a blue state is a democrat or liberal.
Cities are usually liberal, rural is usually conservative. I'd personally advocate for an expanded, air tight bill of rights with a federal government capable and willing to enforce it and all remaining decisions and rules be set by the local community, either city or county. Abolish state governments and reform them into regional managers that upkeep shared resources like roads, but with no legislative power.
I live in the EU, there are some good things but also ineffeciencies living in a confederation style government. To be fair, while consumer and labour protection in the EU has been amazing, we have to admit that there is almost no innovation in R&D going on in Europe as a whole compared to the US. Aside from strict regulations, this is because there is no single rule on how to promote R&D. Each countries have their own rules and promotions. Some states are innovators like Germany, or has no R&D at all like Ireland.
Another weakness that the EU has is on production and defense. As you rightly pointed out, Russia wants the West to fragment, and Russia wants the EU to remain chaotic when it comes to military production and have a disunited, if not an incoherent, European army. But external influence is not even the main issue, the main issue is that many EU countries are neutral like Ireland and Austria, who are not part of NATO. I don't know about Austria but it's very unpopular here in Ireland to join any military alliance and there is a negative image of NATO after the Iraq War. Finland and Sweden used to be anti-NATO until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And with the legacy of the horrors of the Second World War, military production in Europe has been weak. Even though the EU has outstripped the US in terms of giving aid to Ukraine, much of these are non-military because European arms industries are struggling to produce. The US is still the primary military donor of Ukraine.
With different competing values and priorities, it's challenging for the EU to remain confederate. A lot of people advocate for the EU to federalise for this reason.
I'm austrian, we literally can't join any military organisation, because our constitution says so, also it's very unpopular, the party that won the last election (FPÖ) is even against being in the eu, but most austrians like the eu, they don't wanna join nato tho
EDIT: also the somewhat libertarian party (NEOS) got over 10% of the votes if I remember correctly, so please don't take this country serios
Your point on R&D, while true, doesn't consider the cost of the US R&D success. I'm not talking about money. I'm talking about it creating the oligarchs we have now. I'm talking about how all that investment doesn't go toward healthcare or generally improving the lives of the people. Personally, I think it is a bad trade.
That's what the Articles of Confederation were, and they were a disaster that only managed to keep the union alive for 8 years because people could hold their nose until the Constitution was ratified.
confederation
... odd choice for a term ... Nobody in the EU would define themselves by it ...
Well, trying to use terms to justify the US confederacy post-Civil War aside, it would actually be better for a lot of states. The rest of the world can no longer trust and increasingly bipolar schizophrenic US, whereas that's not the case for a certain number of states. You can't overcome the deeply flawed and corrupt two party federal system, and it's rapidly becoming even worse. If you can't fix the problems from within, you will only be able to fix them from outside.
But… it is a confederation. Is it not? Why wouldn’t they? Even Wikipedia mentions confederation in the first paragraph of the EU entry:
The EU has often been described as a sui generis political entity combining the characteristics of both a federation and a confederation.
I know they're not in the EU, but that's exactly what the Helvetic Confederation (Switzerland) do.
Yes, please. As a Californian who is already looking to move abroad, it would be a dream come true for my state to do it for me.
It would be cool if they actually called themselves the NCR
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter...
Why would we though? There has and would be no break betwesn the original Bear Flag Revolt and the modern California Republic. We could definitely create CR Rangers tbough.
NUSA
There is only one state. There's no Union lol
Its NSA
For all of the reasons given, secession from the United States is a bad idea. But I'm going to keep banging this drum: The metropolises need to secede from their states, while staying part of the United States. Heck, Los Angeles County alone has more people than 40 of the states. It's about time that they got fair representation.
That's an approach I'd never considered - is there wiggle-room in the state constitutions to split into smaller states?
Article IV Section 3 of the US constitution
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
If a state agrees, a new state can be formed in its territory, effectively splitting it.
I think it's probably neither allowed nor disallowed in state constitutions, but I'm just a dilettante constitutional scholar. Whether it's allowed or not under the current system, that system is broken and can't be fixed within the limitations of the system, and it needs a disruption. Disruptions tend to be unpleasant, so this is the least-disruptive disruption that I've come up with. There's even historical precedent for it, in the form of the free imperial cities of the Holy Roman Empire.
Texas could split in five smaller states iirc.
Can we coordinate with Oregon and Washington to join Canada?
That aside, California leads the US in many ways, but we have a tendency to go too far and do really dumb things. We're pretty good at self congratulations even when other states stare, slack-jawed at our blunders. It's nice to have perspective.
please call it the "New California Republic"
As long as it doesn't end up like Shady Sands.
Makes sense considering every day we get closer to nuclear warfare (and Trump plans on invading Canada)
I would prefer using an indigenous name for the region. But since california had so many tribes, perhaps that is impossible.
So many tribes in the New California Republic!
Fight for better more fair representation, secession solves nothing.
It will take a massive chunk out of federal funding to reduce states most of whom don't pull equal weight
Shit my CA driver's license expired. Does that mean I'll need to apply for citizenship or will old residents be good?
This could lead to a civil war if enough states leave with Cali. What a shitty time to be alive that it has even come to this
No could about it. It absolutely would.
It's not come to anything. They tried this a few years ago and it failed. "approved for signature gathering" doesn't mean shit
Here's to hoping it's just saber-rattling to remind the feds how important it is to the nation. CA standards benefit way more than just CA residents; i.e. giving other states framework to adopt similar legislation (like emission standards) or even HR practices. Anecdotally, I worked for a CA based company at an east coast office; when they laid a portion of the workforce off, they paid severance to all affected even though many of us were in 'right to work' states.
just like that one movie, what's it called
Dude, Where's My Car?
Not sure if a joke, but Civil War?
When Harry Met Sally?
Good for them
Y'know, as unrealistic as this (probably? I'm not really sure of anything, anymore) is, seeing this pop up in my scrolling gave me a bit of relief. I've been so terrified and angry and anxious and unsure of the (immediate) future that it's practically paralyzed me. Knowing that this pipedream is there helped me breathe for a moment. I'll take what relief I can get right now.
Ah yes, because Brexit was such a success, demonstrating that this clearly would solve all your problems 😬
The question is, at what point is continued membership in the US a bigger problem than splitting from it would be?
California is large enough and prosperous enough that they could definitely make it as an independent nation, but the transition would be extremely difficult.
Oh, I agree, but I'll still take whatever anxiety relief I can get right now.
Okay, but then California becomes a smaller country bordering a much larger fascist neighbor with the largest military in the world.
In what world is that a good outcome?
They’d become a pretty large country with one of the world’s largest economies holding major port access to their neighbor. A few allies and things aren’t quite so clear cut. Not to mention they’d potentially have significant military resources.
If you think the US military wouldn't immediately remove all assets from California you'd be sorely mistaken. There is no way that the fed would allow assets like that to be given away to a successionist movement. Even if they didn't, California doesn't have the logistic ability to maintain those assets for more than id say 3 months.
Oregon and Washington would probably do the same if California seceded. (Which it won't). If BC Canada left, Cascadia would be a thing that is large and prosperous enough to stand on it's own. That or the three states just join Canada.
If they do start to secede or actually secede than it just becomes an expensive and complicated mess that doesn't help anyone. Because even if they are forced back then the larger federation has to work ten times harder to keep them in place and cooperative and in the end becomes a net negative where they have to decide if it's cheaper to let go or keep paying to stay together.
Ask a Canadian what it means because we've had that discussion many times with Quebec and less often with other regions. It's far cheaper for everyone to be cooperative and mutually benefiting one another on good terms than to threaten anyone into a corner ..... and even when things are working, it's still not easy.
In what world did refusing to vote democrat in the last election result in a good outcome?
God dammit I find this so fucking hilarious. Every time a Republican wins you'll inevitably see an article talking about California is to leave. And on the flip side every time we get a Democrat in office fuckin Texas starts bitching and tryna leave.
I'm not going to say it'll never happen, but I would be willing to bet all the 7 dollars I have to my name that it's not gonna happen.
Well in fairness, the pendulum keeps swinging farther with each new administration. So the split is never going to happen until it does. No way to know if this is the time or not. But unless something happens to break the cycle of more and more extremism, their will be a serious attempt at a split eventually. Weather it results in some kind of civil war where one side forces the other to stay, or a split actually happens is also unknowable.
Terrible idea not only for Californians but also the rest of America. Yes California produces a lot and has a huge economy but succeeding would remove almost any big tech headquarters immediately. Silicon valley would be dead. No company is going to willingly pay export fees for every single product they make. They will all move their headquarters somewhere they can freely sell to the other 49 states and force the export fees on California
The additional import/export taxes on top of all the retalitory tariffs that would be placed on the citizens would be crazy.
Everything you just said sounds fantastic
Not to mention that it would be utterly non-functional for all states which share water from the Colorado River to not be part of the same organizational unit. Any smaller secession than that would lead to instant water wars.
https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/watershed-map-north-america
This is a watershed map of North America that expresses your point visually. Every colored area is drained by a different major river system. The Central Valley and urban centers of socal draw heavily from the Colorado watershed which would otherwise drain naturally into the sea of cortez in Baja Mexico.
It’s a sticky wicket once you think these things through.
And I have! It will result in snapping the USA nearly in half.
The article basically says they will form a committee to investigate how to mitigate this type of problem.
Even if it's a terrible idea economically (which it probably is), it may still have support from an ideological perspective, and that depends just how messed up federal politics becomes in the next 3 years.
Brexit was really only purportedly economically motivated - it was really an ideological idea.
A bunch of them have already been moving to Texas.
Weber said proponents must gather 546,651 signatures from registered voters, which is 5% of total votes cast for governor in the 2022 election. Proponents face a deadline of July 22.
I wish they could knock on my door, but the building is secured from visitors. I'll sign if I see someone posted at a table on the sidewalk. I'm done with this shit country.
If this movement has any ground game, they may send a volunteer to your home at a time of your choosing to collect your signatures. Let’s say you had a small gathering of like minded friends? They would be there before the Domino’s guy.
Serious petition movements have a volunteer system set up where they mobilize passionate people with flexible schedules (i.e. usually adorable old ladies or the funemployed). They have to have a website with contact info.
I think it would be a very interesting national debate if this got traction, perhaps even a productive one.
a volunteer to your home at a time of your choosing
That's an interesting idea. I'll pay attention if this gains traction and keep this in mind. Thanks!
Wow, this comment section is wild.
Soooo many removed comments!
To anyone who saw them: without quitting them directly, what were their general sentiments?
You wanna do it Cali, do it before the iron curtain comes falling down. Shit or get off the pot, ya'll might not get another chance.
So is this one backed by Russia as well?
Likely.
Russia's goal isn't to support Republicans.
Russia's goal is to support anything and everything that splits the USA and NATO apart.
Itd never happen but secessions not an unpopular opinion whenever it's mentioned here, only republicans that have repeatedly said they want to leave and move out hate the idea for some reason
gsybdkzbayvfisg yes!! balkanize hahahahahah this would be hilarious please
Do NOT fall for this shit, they’ve tried it before. This makes america an easy red majority and that’s the entire point of it. We’re in this together and not going anywhere
Fuck their red majority. Then those other states can secede too. Why should we continue to suffer for them?
Even in red states, liberal cities are getting fucked over by the electoral college. Hi from Utah lmao
There’s so much that needs fixing. I hate that it’s the fucking conservatives doing it. Fuck.
Lets suffer forever for ppl who hate us yay
“Guys, we can’t leave this facist dictatorship, because it’ll be even more facist without us.”
Promise for communism then
Think they'll accept refugees from other states of they go? I'm not exactly the most fit, but I'd join their military or fight their fires if it gets me some actual freedom.
They could join Denmark
Do they join Mexico?
Join the EU and NATO, let's see how it plays out!
Putin wins
Seems like a good idea but it's not like we can pull out without some kind of fight.
Please don't leave California. If you do a lot more states will follow and all the vulnerable minorities that were trapped in red states will be trapped in fascist countries.
Plus, you know Trump will invade y'all right? All that US military stuff lying around doesn't suddenly become property of the state. Half the Navy trains in San Diego, you think those bootlickers aren't going to blockade your ports and cut your imports off entirely?
If anything maybe break up into smaller states?
I hate violence, but at this point, I see no other option. Civil war is not unthinkable and some assholes want to force it upon us.
That may be, but no sense helping them do it.
They really don't give a shit. So much for Solidarity, fucking liberal bastards.