Apart from the confederate flag itself, this show was pretty much anarchist. They spent every episode humiliating the cops and breaking any unrighteous law they could. The show treated the flag as set dressing.
They also came from a family that canonically resisted the Union during the civil war. And there's very few black people in the show whatsoever. So.
I know the hate symbol has always been a hate symbol, but if there's any show where you could say "it was a product of its time" (the 70's, btw) I think it's this one.
There's a whole episode of The Cleveland Show (as in Cleveland Brown, the black character from Family Guy) where Cleveland gets upset at his neighbor friend for flying a Confederate flag on his house and finally tries to get rid of it. When he fails, he confronts the hick neighbor and calls him a racist. The neighbor doesn't understand why Cleveland is upset and when Cleveland points to the flag the neighbor says, "What, my Dukes of Hazard flag?"
Cleveland immediately realizes he approached the problem from the completely wrong angle and drops the matter indefinitely. They continue to be friends.
Sure, and the context of "that time" was yet another Southern Grievance over the checks notes
Civil Rights Act and continued victories against bigotry in the decade leading to Dukes.
Including police officers enforcing laws like desegregation of schools.
Fun Exercise Btw:
Pick a southern county, look up what years the private schools in the area were founded.
Plus the black people that do appear in the show are always equals to the Hazard Boys. They never depict the Hazard Boys being anything but accepting of everyone except Boss Hog and his law dawgs.
I was never into it or pretty much anything country-related, being an Airwolf, Mission Impossible (the reboot), and MacGuyver kinda kid, but Dad liked it, and explained it to me pretty much the way you did.
"Someday, the mountain might get' em, but the law never will."
100% agreed.
Back in those times, people didn't really knew what it meant, so it got used as a "regular rebel flag", then white supremacists claimed they just flying it for "heritage" and "rebel" reasons...
The Friday night lineup in those days was Dukes, followed by The Love Boat, followed by Fantasy Island. I didn't know it was racist. I thought it was a sort of Robbin Hood story with cool car jumps and a corrupt Sheriff of Nottinghazzard.
I watched it a bit growing up and never got racist vibes from it either. The Confederate flag just meant "the south" to me back then. I knew a lot of people with them on various knick knacks and articles of clothing that I never witnessed being racist either. I don't think people put so much thought into it back then.
These days though, yeah if you're still flying that flag you're probably an asshole.
On the flip side, it was just kind-a ok to be racist at that time. I can remember serious discussion on whether a black man could be smart enough to play quarterback in the NFL.
The Confederate flag just meant "the south" to me back then.
Growing up around the same time, this was how I interpreted it as well. I didn’t give a shit about the flag, but I never got the racist connotation from anyone around me at the time. It was just something that Southern people liked, just as you said.
I got into a heated argument (preschool) about whether the car jumped or flew. My dumbass neighbors (my age and younger) contended that it flew. Their mother backed them up. I bet they turned out really fucked up with a parent who was willing to lie to them and distort reality rather than hit them with a dose of reality. I was super mad about it. And now look at me: I’m an atheist who believes in Leftwing politics, so I’d say that on the spectrum from reality to fucked, I turned out pretty ok. Hate to think how they must see the world today.
fly
to move through the air using wings. to be carried through the air by the wind or any other force or agency:"Any other force or agency" such as a car's momentum
jump
to spring clear of the ground or other support by a sudden muscular effort; leap:"muscular effort" cars don't make muscular effort.
Looks like flew was technically more accurate
They may have been referring to the cartoon. The car in the cartoon did some ridiculous shit, such as tires that inflated like balloons and made the car extra bouncy.
I’d say that there was often time some OTHER antagonist, making it “cool guys jump car so that bungling sheriff catches actual bad guys”.
Not in the United States, on Fridays it was Dukes Of Hazard then Incredible Hulk on CBS, while Love Boat and Fantasy Island was Saturdays on ABC.
No I had no idea either, I'm Canadian and we didn't really learn American history. It was just a show to me, but learning what I know as an adult, I'm gobsmacked this existed.
Yeah I think I saw one maybe one and bits of another episode. I knew of it though but I'm in Europe and didn't even know what the flag meant. Different times I suppose.
When I was a kid the show turned me off at first because the characters accents. Every adult in real life around me that had a country accent was an asshole that was mean to me for no reason.
That's why I can't watch Letterkenny. I could get the same experience any Tuesday night at the Legion around here.
Were there ever any non-white people on the show they could have been racist towards?
This site counted and "The conclusion was that with 19 black characters over seven seasons, Dukes of Hazzard had a higher black-character-to-episode ratio than Seinfeld or Friends."
Yes, and they were always treated as equals. It was rare for them to be on the show though.
Just imagined it or don't understand it. There's zero incest in the show, and zero hate crimes. Other than the flag and name of the car, there's nothing racist about it at all, and that flag wasn't perceived as a racist symbol back then, as illogical as that may seem. When black people do appear in the show, which admittedly is rare, they're always equals to the Duke boys. The show is just good fun. If there's any theme to it at all, it's that it's cool to make money with moonshine, and flaunt the law, while making fools of law enforcement.
To add, the bad guy is a rich guy trying to exploit people for profit or to get revenge for those that have wronged him.
As a non American, the confederate flag on the roof always seemed strange to me, to put it lightly
The name of the car leaves little room for interpretation.
True, and yet, at the same time: The show's main antagonist was named Jefferson Davis Hogg. There's no way the choice of a Confederate General for the car (the show's non-human protagonist) and the Confederate President for the antagonist was an accident, I just have no idea what they were trying to say there.
I was too young back then.
In hindsight, this show was a terrible idea.
Glorification of the Confederates and the protagonists called "the good old boys" would be instantaneously shut down and called out today for the racist white supremacist idea that it is.
The shows antagonists were a wealthy business man turned politician who wielded the corrupt police force to feed his own power and oppress the common folk. And while his nickname was Boss Hogg, the villain's canon name was Jefferson Davis Hogg. Pretty literally calling the cops confederate pigs.
Definitely a lot of problematic elements to the show, but there's some good there too. And I'm sure it influenced a ton of car action sequences for decades.
racist white supremacist idea
Oh FFS, if you were young then you also remember All in the Family and The Jeffersons, shows that were in-your-face anti-racist. Prime time was hardly in a mood for racist bullshit.
What if I said the show was racist because it showed white, country people as wide-eyed, stupid hicks? How ridiculous does that sound?
It’s just a symbol of their heritage. Of white supremacy.
Looks like them racist boys are at it again
I definitely support that we've pushed this show out of the forefront, but this is where a lot of the arguments for the flag as a 'symbol of southern pride' come from. It's a weird argument, and it is definitely not a fair one, but there's very fond associations in the south with that car even from people who had no clue where the flag came from. Super successful attempt to help the confederate flag be seen as acceptable, whether on purpose or not.
It's a weird show too for someone who isn't from the south... Racial diversity is non-existent in the show, but that's also pretty accurate for its location... It had some awesome car scenes, but no depth. The only hot take in the show beyond the flag painted on top (which wasn't even a hot take then) was that the government was widely seen as corrupt and it was more than a bit sexist.
Yeah, hell, Sheriff Little, the black sheriff from the neighboring county was actually pretty competent. Yeah, it was mostly white, but the black people were always smarter than Roscoe or Boss Hogg.
I dont think op ever watched the show.
I really liked how the more recent Movie Adaptation handled Race on the show. The Dukes crashed the General Lee in da hood (I realize this requires a lot of suspension of disbelief already) and a bunch of dark skinned folks start coming out of their homes and seeing the car and grabbing irons and walking towards them so the Dukes brothers run away on foot. And then one of the black guys rolls a spare tire into frame and says "Where are they going? We're here to help."
EDIT: I appear to have merged my memories of the 2005 film with the 2008 Harold and Kumar film. Did Johny Knoxville actually ride a safe in the Dukes of Hazzard or was that Harold, too?
Surprisingly, when blacks were shown they were treated very well and as equals by the dukes. It almost had anti-racist undertones outside of the General Lee if watched closely.
Also, the actor who played Boss Hogg had been in Army Intelligence during the Korean war, and spoke about 12 languages.
The flag was on the top of the car, not the hood, but yeah.
Technically correct is the best kind of correct, updated, good catch my friend.
Sure, I also bought the idea that it was southern pride and I also bought there was no racism because I lived in a place without diversity. Then i grew up and went to high school
I watched this as a kid (it aired in Germany).
It was funny, the stunts were cool and the chick was kinda hot.We were jazzed about the local-boy-made-good story, since Tom Wopat was born in the little town of Lodi, Wisconsin ("Home of Susie the Duck"), and went to school at UW-Madison. The car could've been named anything, as long as it did those awesome jumps.
I wish I was born in a time when people could just enjoy shit.
It seems like mindless TV with action, some good old boys and some eye candy, set in the south.
People make out it is some sort of factually wrong documentary.
People make out it is some sort of factually wrong documentary
Say what you will about stupid people, but I have to tell you this: I've had more than a few people tell me they did not wear seat belts because "the Dukes never wore seat belts"
I am not even fucking kidding about this. It's not just about people today treating this TV show like it was a depiction of reality, it's about people at the time doing the exact same thing.
It was lovely then. I miss not giving a shit about words.
We gave a shit back then too, they just were different words that we cared about.
lemmy just hates people who humiliate cops on a daily basis i would guess
As I've seen it said many times on Lemmy for many nostalgia moments and am also quite surprised no one said to to you yet (they probably got tired of repeating it..), people yearning for the good old times are the privileged white patriarchy class.
Be ashamed, be very ashamed. Tsk. Tsk.
People are nostalgic the world over, not just in America. So all of the undertones of political issues that you're layering on here isn't inherent to the human feeling of nostalgia. Now The Dukes of Hazzard is problematic for a great many reasons as this post highlights. So it's totally fair to call that out. But it's also totally fair to remember being a kid and liking a show where guys break the rules with fast cars. It doesn't mean that he's a bigot that wants to drag us all back to the '70s.
I say, as long as you're self aware and this feeling in nostalgia doesn't push you in the direction of Trump or Andrew Tate, then go for it.
Don't forget the rather unfortunate usage of a bunch of people cruising around in the Confederate car all being named "Duke."
See, there was once a man named David, who was the leader of a wacky little group of goofballs back in the '70s. That li'l jokester even went so far as to get everyone to call him a grand wizard, which is such a zany thing to ask people to do, but people totally did it with a straight face
Anyway, I wonder if it's a coincidence. Who knows?
He was leader in 1989. The first episode was in 1979, a decade earlier.
Wikipedia seems to disagree. I believe you may be thinking of when he took political office, not when he started as Grand Wizard of the Idiot Brigade.
Probably more likely the name is a reference to Civil War Confederate General Basil Duke. Or perhaps the name merely is meant to invoke the idea of the Dukes as important, "noble" figures in Hazzard County, or at least more noble than the corrupt Boss Hogg. Or maybe a cigar is just a cigar in this case.
Good theories. Honestly, I don't totally think it is in reference to the Klan dude, but it sure is an unfortunate coincidence
He wasn't a big name here in the Midwest, at least, until he gained national prominence by winning a seat in the Louisiana legislature in '89, thus becoming the face of the pit of foul putrescence at the heart of the GOP. (Anybody who thinks that Republicans turned batshit-evil in 2016 was at least 27 years late.)
European checking in: whats the name of the series?
Dukes of Hazzard.
"Inspired" by / re-done from the B-movie film "Moonrunners"
In addition, those shorts are still called daisy dukes (at least by my generation) in honor of Daisy there, laying on the flag.
The Dukes of Hazard
Ummm thighs
Man.. gotta say, I'm really glad I got to enjoy these old skool shows.
Pssst... I'm Latino, this show didn't offend me then and it doesn't offend me now.
Loved it. I had the curtains/drapes set. We didn't know about the connection as kids.
Oh, so this wasn't a wholesome series about a cute couple that wanted to destroy every car that has racist symbols painted on the roof? Bcs they were really good at it. And destroying the cars as well.
Conservatives are known for repurposing symbols to fit their narrative. So, let's take the Confederate battle flag and repurpose it into an Anarchist symbol.
General Lee is just a badass name for a car to drive fast around while you run your moonshine because fuck the police.
its like that because the show is literally just the movie "moonrunners".
the car is called the general lee because the car in moonrunners is called traveler, the historical general lee's horse.
moonrunners is a crazy movie, btw, and the first few seasons of the dukes of hazard are good too.
I really want a new movie with one of the moments being a the general lee with proper stars and bars being paint job used to destroy a confederate statue, maybe have the new duke brothers inherit the car and use it do some good knowing how angry them having the car makes confederate sympathisers
Honestly, just making them good people and having them help and hang out with minorities would be more than enough. So they should definitely add that shit in destroy a statue with it while a minority is in the car with them.
Edit: and you dont even really have to change Boss Hog he pretty much fits.
"mr. hog sir would you kindly tell me why you hate us helping out these poor folk and driving our car our family painted up so nice?" "all we're doing is just trying to do is be upstanding citizens I know some people have called them "undesirables" but that's just unfair"
We know more now than we did before.
With Uncle Smurf, Boss Dimmadome, Sheriff Gomer, Vagina the Mechanic, and Random Black State Trooper...what's not to love? 😂
Boss Dimmadome
Owner of the Dimmsdale Dimmadome?
Not right!
That’s right, Doug Dimmadome!
I guess you have quite the imagination.
Ummmm thighs 😋
Well to be fair I was a kid and didn't watch it - didn't care.
Um...no? It was called The Dukes of Hazzard, you're way off
No, pretty sure it was "Incest Cousins and Their Hate Crime Car."
