Poor people should just simply try working for their father's company for a year and then taking a VP position at a small fortune 500. I don't understand why they won't try that, and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Tsk tsk tsk.
look, we all know if you click this link here you too can be a millionaire working 6 hours a week. (link withheld because i want to be a millionaire first)
Click “Like” and subscribe to my channel for more tips on being rich!
They should just tell their daddies to make another film. Please daddy please! 20 million dollars is still 12 million dollars after taxes!
There's so many other issues too, such as the fact that old job posts don't really get removed, employers/recruiters also spam multiple websites with their job posts and forget to check them, and some of the job descriptions don't even match what you go and sign up for.
No salaries mentioned on lots of posts, multi stage interviews that somehow demand your free time during work hours, so good luck interviewing for other roles while you have a job. Take home assignments that take multiple hours sometimes, sacrificing a whole evening.
Recruiters that will ask for all your information again, despite having found your phone number from your CV, and once you go through that, tell you they have nothing for you and that they'll be in touch.
Questions that mean nothing in an interview, including acronyms I haven't used or even heard of outside of interviewing for other jobs, because my job doesn't need or use them, we just do the work.
Job is listed as remote
During interview they tell you they expect you to move to bumfuck north dakota within 6 months of starting
To be fair, that is remote.
Job is listed as remote.
During the interview they tell you it only requires 2 days a week in the office. You tell them you don't have a car... they reply there are trains from where you live to where the office is located... you look it up and they're right, it's just a 2 hour commute each way. You start to think "8 hours a week, is like 1.5 hours a day for 5 days, could be worse...". Then you realize their hiring process requires 3 more on-site interviews before even getting an offer.
Don't forget the tech listings that require 5 years experience in a particular programming language when the language has only even existed for the past 2 years...
Catch-22 situations, where it's impossible to meet the qualifications. 🤦♂️
This is part of the interview. It's to see if you can deal with project managers once you get hired.
Take home assignments that take multiple hours sometimes, sacrificing a whole evening.
Do NOT do this.
Taking a live proficiency test is one thing, particularly if you're applying for more senior roles, but doing actual projects for free in your spare time should be a hard pass. Full stop.
I made the mistake of doing a take home assignment once. They didn't even have the courtesy to give me feedback on it when I asked.
Not doing a home assignment(or work test as we call them) would mean never getting a job within the industry I work in, or at least not within the country I'm in.
And as someone that have been on both sides of this they are a great tool especially as it gives something to focus on in a technical interview. Though I would say that a requirement for this is that you always give/get actual feedback.
Jesus Christ you just described my life for the last six months.
I feel like these are the real issues - I can't tell how much of OP is meant to be a joke .. "You forget to check the website and you miss the time". I mean, that's on you. Also it's often easy to blag the magic words an interviewer wants to hear, the real danger is that the job is NOT as advertised.
The number of interviews I used to sit in on, and wonder WTF the interviewer was thinking.. One asked a service designer "if you were a type of cake, what would you be?"
I would disagree, those issues are valid too. Why does every website needs its own account, phone number etc? I get so many spam calls when I start looking for a job because of this. Just e-mail me. I'm not going to check your website every day for 2 weeks just to see if you get back to me.
The spam calls also put less value on actually answering my phone, because half the time it is a spam call. Why does every recruiter need to call? Why does every site need a number when I just need one answer, yes or no. I have my CV, I have my skills on my CV, and with one reply I can send you a very short list of what I'm looking for in 2 minutes, not every job needs a 30 minute phone conversation only for the recruiter to decide they have nothing for me.
And yes, there are magic words the interviewer wants to hear as well. As someone who sometimes struggles in higher pressure situations (which my field does not require at all btw), and also struggles with using the correct vocabulary or recalling random phrases and key words they want to hear, it's frustrating to no end.
Honestly, I feel this should have all been streamlined by now, especially when I've already worked somewhere for years and my company has been satisfied with my performance - why is this not enough? Why can't this be quantified somehow? An alternative which very few companies do is give me a technical/practical interview that's actually like the job as advertised. Much easier for remote roles, but can be done in person too. Let me do the job, show you I can do the job, and then you decide to hire me based on that.
I do relate to your last point though, the amount of unrelated riddles or whatever get asked to 'see how I think' or something is ridiculous. Even when I get the answers right, the interviewer themselves don't seem sure. I don't get it.
Well, problem 1 is using indeed. What an obsolete site for most places. But i get the joke.
Not that prospects are much better elsewhere. Like LinkedIn for instance with their “click here for instant apply” and then you see that you’re one of 50 people (today) to apply for this open role and some AI in the background estimated based on your profile that you have 22% chance of getting the job BUT if you pay for premium you can knock that 22% up to 50% and an AI writes you a better profile…
I really do feel sorry for the crap the boomer gen and even my generation (genx) has left every generation after.
#eattherich
What should I be using then?
Depends on your level and job. Honestly I’m still going to say LinkedIn in most cases, if only because Its the professional social network. Companies can look you up, so you need a good profile to attract those recruiters that pay to find people. It’s a sick game, but at least now there are AI profile services that can help you get ahead.
Indeed is cheap and used by cheap recruiters to get the most applicants directed to some other job board that costs them near nothing to aggregate resumes. You can’t even be sure you’re using the company job site to apply in some cases. At least with LinkedIn you can do the searching for the real job post.
A gun pointed at your head
I've had a lot of response back through LinkedIn. Landed one of my jobs through it. Other three were personal and professional connections.
Except indeed has replaced every job listing and recruitment. Even the "top" recruiting firms now are doing all their work on indeed.
Yep. Comes down to money and they can’t make big money off you if you hide behind the great LinkedIn pay wall. Look, recruiters like everyone else are trying to milk every penny out of their sale (you). You say “top” but are they exclusive? Are you applying at the company portal? Can you find this job yourself and apply direct? Top recruiters doesn’t mean as much as is used to. Right now you’re one of 30 applicants being submitted by a semi-competent recruiter that uses a tool to evaluate how much your resume fits and how much profit they can make if they bring you in under the salary range.
Indeed is a crap job site used by cheap recruiters. at least with LinkedIn you’re better armed with searching.
At my last job I got sick of the management so I just did easy apply to like 50 jobs that were suitable as they came up. Actually got my current job from it. Unfortunately probably won't happen now since there are like 20k laid off people looking in my field.
My hubby went in for an interview and was told he got the job so he told his other prospective employers that he was no longer interested. Before he could arrange a start date, they ghosted him. He tried to call but it went to an outsourced helpdesk that told him they would create a ticket and he would get a call back. No call after several days. He physically went into the place and the hiring manager seemed flustered that he was there and told him they would contact him. After two weeks from when he was told he would get the job, he finally got a hold of the guy he interviewed with and was told they gave the position to someone else because he was "unreachable".
Problems like this are the reason why I don't hold loyalty to any company unless they've proven their competency. The ones that are good rarely hire because the employees don't want to leave.
That's terrible, I hope it all worked out, but absolutely never say anything until you've both signed a contract unless you're looking for a counter offer, which is risky AF.
People pull out of informal agreements all the time, it's not an employer thing - legal issues, real estate, appointments, competition prizes, dates...
Yeah that's why I hold off on turning down other offers until the last possible moment when I know 100% the new gig is locked down. Then you inform them as gently and kindly as possible to leave the door open if it doesn't work out. Usually the good ones won't take it personally and are open to working together in the future if you decide to leave.
Was scared of the same thing happening to me, was ghosted for 2 MONTHS and was about to start at a different place when they finally reached back with a bunch of excuses. The same company says they desperately need more workers lol
You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. "Do you want to fill out the application manually, or upload your resume?" You select the latter and upload your resume. Indeed loads the next page: "Please fill out your work history manually." You scream 20 times
Pro tip: for the workday applications with the manual forms, I have a separate file I upload without formatting that perfectly fills out the forms in the fields they want, then I upload a formatted resume.
That's genius!
Cpoy and paste if you can and you need to
“No one wants to work anymore” does not mean what it’s individual words imply. It’s like “fucking hell”. It has a different meaning.
It means “we don’t want to pay, we think labor is too expensive”
That and/or, "I'm such a raging asshole that I've created a terrible, toxic environment and everybody always quits."
"No one wants to work anymore"
Yeah, Karen. No one wants to work in the first place. You think you deserve employees who will accept crackers as payment for the joy and excitement of generating value for a company so you don't have to?
Literally, people like rslash used to exploit whenever reddit tells stories (unclear if their even real) about karens demanding labor so cheap, these 'people' (insanely one note and possably fake people)
askcoerse people to work for them for less than half of what you'd expect from a gig or office job or no money at all.rslash choosing beggers::: spoiler image
:::Are these the boomer karens your refering to?
Image Transcription:
Tumblr post by user anotherchariotpulledbycats reading
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. The silence is deafening.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. Half of them require you to create an account on the company website. You have a trail of ghost accounts that will be used once and never again. You never receive a response.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer offers an interview, but it's so rare for you to receive any response that you forget to check the website and you miss the time.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer offers an interview, but you don't know the magic words that signal to the esoteric mind of an interviewer that you're fit for the job.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer e-mails you saying that 'unfortunately, you do not have the qualifications we are looking for'. You check the job again and see you applied to be a menial labourer.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. Half of them require a car a car. No one stops to ask how you're supposed to afford one with no job.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer offers a job. The commute makes you want to die in your sleep.
"You call the HR manager for the workplace in hopes of arranging an interview more directly. They don't even have an answering machine.
"Employers complain that no one wants to work anymore."
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
You do good work, keep it up. Oh and also, blockquotes are useful for distinguishing quoted text. I hope this makes your life a little easier
My title of my post
I am sir quoted
I talk a lot and on many lines
Thanks, my footnote
In your post editor it looks like
My title of my post > I am sir quoted > > I talk a lot and on *many* lines Thanks, my footnote
Posts on lemmy and and a lot of other places support markdown. Its really handy.
I finally got to experience this from the inside. I was on the team that interviewed people to back fill my position after I was promoted. We didn't interview 1 external candidate. Promoted someone from below and then hired a new entry level person. We realized our internal hire has less experience, but they were the safe fast option that could get started right away.
It's so, so frustrating that so many places require a job to be posted even when there's an internal candidate and it's already been decided. I work in government where we're often hard-required to post all jobs and it sucks to see so many people applying for a job when I know they absolutely will not be considered for the role.
In my experience, a majority of job postings are essentially fake because it's already been decided, and I hate it.
Very similar to finding a new home.
Bonus challenge: Find a new home without a job.
I am on lifelong disability which means I get a guaranteed amount of money each month for life.
No landlords will touch me, a person with a GUARANTEED INCOME.
However, if you have a job, that you can get fired from or quit the next day, they'll accept you. Blows my fucking mind.
Btw, for anyone wondering, if I lose my job, the government will step in and give me money for my disability. If I have a job, they don't give me money. If I have a shit job where I make a couple hundred per month, they'll cover the difference. I don't mooch off the government, but my point is that I'm lucky enough to have a safety net, and landlords are so dumb they run away from it.
Godspeed.
No landlords will touch me, a person with a GUARANTEED INCOME.
However, if you have a job, that you can get fired from or quit the next day, they’ll accept you. Blows my fucking mind.
Exactly, it's crazy. Some even go further and require you to earn 3x as much as your rent.
While I understand it's a good rule of thumb to not spend more than 1/3 on rent ... a good rule of thumb for THE RENTING PERSON, that is. Why would any landlord care if I eat oats or drive a lambo? As long as I pay my rent, what do they even care how much I have left?
And since rents have been rising more than wages, satisfying this unecessary demand becomes increasingly difficult.
Maybe it is because they are not rational homo economicuses. They find someone to rent their place anyways, so they can use their power to punish or reward people based on their societal ideals. Or simply have a say in what kind of people are allowed to live in that hood.
Years ago I rented to a section 8 tenant. She was a single mom, and my mom was a single mom, so I wanted to help her. The rent was guaranteed and I receive a check in the mail directly from the housing authority. However, the tenant never took care of the house. At times, it seems she was unemployed, but was still receiving the assistance, which was nice I guess. But I don't know what she does with her time because you'd think she will at least try to make the place that she lives in as clean / nice as she can with her time. Unfortunately, I ended up having to pay over $10k to fix up my house after she left, and the home has a lot of random damages like broken window screens, big holes in the walls, etc. Never have those issues with other tenants.
Point is, many people who receive gov't assistance never have their life together. And my experiences tell me to run away as fast as possible whenever I encounter them. As opposed to people who work hard for their money, they actually take care of the places.
You may be different, but again, once bitten, twice shy.
Oh man. I'm in my 40s, working full time in an office-based, professional role and renting is fucky even for someone who can prove a stable income. You go to look at a house, only to find 20 other people queued up waiting. You like the house, you offer to rent it, only to find that it's been rented to someone offering £200 a month more than the list price.
It's absolute shit.
Same with buying shoes; how do you expect me to go to the shoe store without having shoes to walk in?
And for glasses; how can I find my glasses without glasses?
I'm a graphic designer and I applied to over 100 jobs before a recruiter got back to me and said she loved my portfolio and sent it up the chain.
It's a ridiculous situation, where you are left feeling like shit. and when you get the job you realize it is not you but the company is the shit
I feel like I was born at the worst point in time.
i hate how we're supposed to act like we're the Most Perfect fit for the role, and So Eager! -- the most ideal human to ever walk the earth, specifically for this role.
and you get the job and go there and the coworkers aren't fucking god and apollo, it's joey and mark
1000 times this. it feels as if I am auditioning to an acting role and not a job interview. I have watched some videos on YouTube on how to ace a job interview in my field, I couldn't finish a video without feeling my stomach churn. and it is through and through about what you can bring to their company, and very rarely about what they can bring to you.
Even prostitution feels less dehumanizing than a regular job.
I would rather be raped by Apple than raped be Mongols just saying.
Where is the lemmy for jobs? There is no need to create an account for every company if they all use activitypub.
More than half of my recent applications all used the same workday application service, but you need a unique workday account for every fucking company. Why in the world is it not just a single account‽
It's intentional and is basically hazing. They think you will want the job more if they make you put unnecessary effort into applying for it.
In terms of infosec, it's better for each to have it's own account as you don't want any linkages to other organisations with your data.
It's a gigantic pain in the hole though when you use a password manager.
there needs to be a common form for job applications like with college
they're incentivized to make it as shitty as possible both for this rite of passage shite as well as de-incentivizing workers in general from switching jobs 'too freely'. it helps retention knowing how fucking miserable the process is
Put in about 40 apps on indeed. Got one interview, didn't get job. Couple weeks later got an email from one employer that I wasn't what the were looking for. I responded, thanking them for at least responding. Got the interview. I hit 5 years in the job next week.
I do that but half of the time when I get a response like that it's from some automated email that says no one will read any replies to it.
Five years ago, people treated other people like people. Happy for you though!
Thanks!
This has literally been my experience! I've submitted near 100 applications and NOTHING! I'm 20, living at home with my parents breathing down my neck and saying how lazy I am for not getting a job while NO ONE will fucken hire me! I've even done walk in interviews and STILL NOTHING! I don't know what to do anymore and feel like I'm stuck in hell. Cant leave this house cuz I'm broke, can't get a car cuz I'm broke, can't pay my crazy medical bills cuz I'm broke. College for me is over after this semester if I can't get at least minimum wage employment and what do ppl say to me when I complian? WHY DONT YOU JUST GET A JOB!!? I'm so tired, I'm so done, just end me now.
Protip: Fuck your medical bills. At least for now. Low, low, low priority. What qualifications do you have? What experience? What are your skills? If you don't have answers to those questions, whats your game plan to answer them? For obvious reasons I'm biased, but IT is an amazing field to try and enter right now if you're able to bear down and learn material for Comptia certifications.
I actually took the comptia cert test in 9th grade, only problem was I was not told before hand I couldn't have anyone else walking infont of the camera while I was doing it, as I was using the family PC at the time it was smack dab in the midlle of a hallway that everyone used. So they failed me. But yea my major is cybersec, so I've got a good career if I can't pay for it. As for the medical stuff, I have a rare ear tumor called cholestiatoma that needs to be operated on so there's that. Sorry if it sounds like all I'm doing is removed but life seems pretty hopeless right now. On the bright side I am working on a game I plan to release in a couple of months!
"the silence is deafening" sums up my job searching experience. I can apply to as many jobs as you'd like but I can't actually start working until the other side says yes. and they seem to not even register that my application has been sent. How am I supposed to work, if no employer ever even looks at my application?
yOu'Re SuPpOsEd To CaLl ThEm YoUrSeLf!
I fucking hate that. If they need the position filled, should they not be checking each and every applicant? Why do I ALSO need to call the place after I sent in my application/resume?
Is that the case? What about companies that don't have a phone number and instead say to fill out their online form? Are you supposed to just hack them to get their number or something?
This is my experience too. I spent 5 months looking for a job on Indeed and LinkedIn but eventually got a job in a completely different field thanks to my father-in-law.
gotta know someone with connections to get a job it seems.
You had me until missing an interview is not your fault. When I got an interview I wrote that date and time on everything. I couldnt go five feet without a reminder. If you miss an interview (barring medical or personal emergency) that's on you, but I guess that's an unpopular opinion.
You can't set reminders if you never knew the interview existed. It's still their fault, but it's an easy mistake to make.
Even further, each site is unique in features, layout and design. Its a dice roll how youll be contacted or how you set reminders in app. if they have a date/time, put it in your calendar app, dont rely on their garbage.
Edit: some dont notify you they even made an event for you, welp your screwed.
I read it differently. It's an ambience. The author is not taking off actual interviews being scheduled.
Rather, replies to your applications are so few that you end up getting frustrated. Because of that, in the long run, you forget checking the website. Now, if in the meanwhile you get a reply, nobody's home to receive it.
You miss it not because you're lazy or careless, but because you're human and there's so much you can do to keep hoping.
not really the main point or any reason to dismiss the whole thing. we aren't playthings for corporations, the whole interviewing facade where we're supposed to be dutiful and perfect and company-fearing is dumb
Did you misread the second paragraph?
This has happened to me and there's some confusion in the comments so I'll attempt to clarify here, it's not missing an interview in the way we're perceiving it. What happens is;
On indeed, you can pre-fill out an application and "quick apply" to most jobs, and that's the entire application process for that job. If you're accepted for an interview, they will message you on the indeed app or maybe via email.
But many of the jobs you can apply to on indeed don't accept quick apply and instead direct you to their website, where you apply again, and from then on must log into their site frequently checking back for responses, potential invites to interviews, recommendations for other openings etc.
So they're not missing an interview they've been notified about, they're missing the notification of an upcoming interview because they didn't check the site that notified them.
Is that still on them? Yeah, technically. But many, many sites are now doing this on indeed. Back when I was applying it didn't take me long to be signed up for indeed + DG + Walmart+ Amazon + UPS etc etc.
I'm sure I'm signed up to at least 50 different sites. 99% of those sites will never notify me of anything aside from other job openings.
So you get forgetful sometimes, checking 50 sites a day can do that to you.
Then one of them offers you an interview on their site, but you only checked 40 sites today and spent the rest of your time mass quick applying to 100 new jobs instead of checking the remaining 10 sites that had a .001% chance of actually offering you a job anyway.
I mean, yeah, the blame is still on them. If you're in desperate need of a job with nothing else going on then you should be religiously checking every site you're signed up with. However, I can see forgetting to check one or two as well because there are a fucking lot and it's a lot to remember.
I remember hating to apply to jobs that required me to use their site so, so badly, because they ALREADY had my application from indeed but instead of just using that app they want me to arbitrarily sign up for their site instead, that's likely much more of a hassle than indeed, and add ANOTHER fucking layer of difficulty to just getting a damn job.
A better way to get employees seems to be to just accept quick applications from indeed, message them on the app and just set up a damn interview. With indeed available I'm not sure why these companies even use their own sites.
Been a software developer for 15 years. I've applied for hundreds of positions this summer and all of them either never call me back or say they are interested in other candidates. I actually fucked up two coding tests this week and I dunno anymore. I'm just so disappointed and money is starting to get tight, and I have a surprise medical bill for a biologic. I'm thinking when I can't afford rent, I'll just kill myself.
What's worse is I did have a job for two months but I fucked it up and botched a production instance. They let me go a couple weeks later, I wasn't a good fit. I wanted to die then, and the sensation hasn't gone away either. I lie about it because saying you are suicidal is a great way to be rubber roomed.
Some days posting on 196 isn't even worth it.
Hey friend, I'm sorry that you've fucked up a bunch lately. I know the feeling. Just know that you are really valuable to your family and friends, and they'd be extremely hurt if you did do something like that.
Everyone is feeling so stretched right now, and you are not alone. But we will get through this, and things will get easier down the road.
I know it sounds stupid, but money is just.. money. Yes we need it to survive in this day, but your life is worth so much more than a bit of cash or debt.. and it sounds like you're a smart person. So just know that those mistakes are a part of your journey, and a part of moulding you into the person you will be in a few years.
New guy botching a production instance, for a developer…isn’t your problem.
Sorry but that’s on them. You shouldn’t be able to deploy bad code to prod. Whoever approved the MR fucked up and you caught the blame. You’re better off without them.
Infra guys like me (networking) yeah, sure, because our test environment happens to also be our prod environment.
It gets better, King
Coding tests are the fucking worst.
Almost never representative of the actual work and usually far more restrictive than the actual work too. (In that you can't search, might be watched, etc)
I agree. It pains me that I have to ask them. The ones my company does are very restrictive and high pressure. I personally try to choose reasonable problems with realistic scenarios (especially when interviewing entry level folks). I also have lots of follow up questions that I like to think are well grounded on realism.
I personally give a complete pass for stuff like standard library functions and will outright tell the candidate about an available function if they're unsure what it's called or how its used. I'm testing problem solving and an understanding of language , fundamentals not their ability to memorize a standard library. I mean, heck, I can't begin to count how many times I've had to google "[language] sort list".
Honestly, it sucks to have to watch a candidate struggle. It's awkward and not fun. I want to see the candidate do well. And heck, if they can't do well, I want them to at least be able to make progress, because I know it would feel bad to feel like you bombed the interview. Sadly, the environment of tech interviews isn't conductive to that. They're stressful and sometimes perfectly qualified candidates do poorly simply because of nerves.
I feel like for software, the big barrier is getting past HR/recruiters. Once you get to talk to someone technical, it's a lot easier. But hell if I know how the heck the non technical staff decides how to progress people.
I've done tech interviews. They're leetcode, which isn't great, but at least it's fair. There's no magic words there. I just want to know if you can reasonably approach a problem (and I don't pick anything I couldn't get hired on), can show problem solving skills, and show an understanding of algorithms and data structures. You don't even need to solve the problem if you can come close and your thinking out loud shows good skills. And most definitely don't need to be an optimal solution (though it helps).
But getting to the tech screen, I don't even know. I've made internal referrals that never even get assigned to anyone, despite a glowing referral. Maybe it's just super competitive. Maybe there's a scarcity of low level positions (though I know many teams that are top heavy and only need low level positions). I really know nothing about what it takes to get to the tech screen level. But once you're there, I really do think it's a lot more reasonable (not at all perfect, but better).
I hire in technology. I can easily spend weeks filling a position. Candidates lie through their resumes and interviews 20 wasted interviews = 30 hours cultivating those interviews I have about a 26% no show, no response to missed interviews. Posting a job equals literally hundreds of emails, recruiters, off shore companies, and badly done resumes.
Headhunters talk big and deliver bottom barrel candidates, no one likes recruiters, so great candidates hardly use them.
When I use tools like one way interviews so I can screen hundreds of candidates, the feedback is "it's not personal enough", then no show on an appointment THEY MAKE
I'm a small business, my resources for hiring aren't extensive.
Just want to give some flavor to the other side of this.
Ok, but - and please don't think I mean this in an offensive way, I am asking this in the most naive way - isn't that your whole job? I get that it is annoying, but you don't waste 30 hours, you just work 30 hours. Hours that you get paid for and hours that you would use to do the same job/try to hire for another position otherwise. Of course you could get more done (i.e. more people hired) in a unit of time, but at the end of the day that's not your problem really, is it? You did everything correctly. You still get your hours paid.
Do you get the impression that these are real humans lying to try and get the job themselves? Or is it just spam from vendor agencies conjuring hypothetical candidates that they in turn will need to find, taking a cut in the process.
It's really hard to say. Generative AI can pump out unlimited resumes and fake human data to make everything look real. I don't know of a service that screens candidates or vets them to make sure they an actual human. It's kinda tinfoil hat to think hiring agencies are flooding the market with fake, so that people like me will just give up; but.. i mean... maybe?
I dont see how that could work. Spamming with ai generated resumes are easy enough but finding a candidate who would accept their offer to just lie and go through with it serms impossible and never heard of. I dont know how these applying process works exactly so is it possible that the service is automatically applying for people based on their relevance? Just a guess tho.
Candidates lie
I was a software developer and I often interviewed prospective candidates by phone. It was hilarious how often I heard keyboard tapping in the background after asking a question, and sometimes I could hear other people whispering. I was like c'mon - I'm only phone interviewing to see if it's worth our time to bring you in for an in-person interview. You're not going to be able to Google shit (or have your friends do it) when you're here, so this tactic is not going to land you a job.
Yeah whenever I go for an interview for a public position, I try to be mindful that the person or people I'm speaking to are probably exhausted. But unless you've got a reference to a private posting directly through a back channel, then I don't think there's any way around it - hiring for a role is hard. But ideally, you'll have the person for years if you can retain them, so doing it right is worthwhile.
then no show on an appointment THEY MAKE
I scare myself that I will miss recruiter appointments, I know that I would make a terrable canadate when I was (and still kinda am) going through mential issues.
Headhunters talk big and deliver bottom barrel candidates, no one likes recruiters, so great candidates hardly use them.
Thank you, thats good to know. Even worse are the orgs that "job hunt for the 3 legged deer of our society" . The corrupt ones will make you feel crippled. ironically, hurting your mential health, making you an unfit canadate and exasurbating the problem.
Ok, but - and please don't think I mean this in an offensive way, I am asking this in the most naive way - isn't that your whole job? I get that it is annoying, but you don't waste 30 hours, you just work 30 hours. Hours that you get paid for and hours that you would use to do the same job/try to hire for another position otherwise. Of course you could get more done (i.e. more people hired) in a unit of time, but at the end of the day that's not your problem really, is it? You did everything correctly. You still get your hours paid.
"hires for" doesn't just mean "in-house recruiter"
Hiring is probably not their only responsibility
I almost died in my sleep commuting home from a job that barely covered fuel costs. Never again.
I worked a job where I figured a full quarter of the money I made from the job went to pay for commuting.
My last job was 8 hours of work and an hour commute each way, but it was by train so it wasn't too bad since I could read my book or nap. Have to drive an hour or more each way is suicide-provoking for sure.
I am in this hell. Recent software engineering graduate, and i haven't gotten any bites for a long while. I've got no idea what to do besides work on my personal projects in hopes that it catches the interest of some unicorn out there that will actually read my info.
If you've got a degree, your institution's job boards are lightyears better than Indeed. Keep working on the personal projects though, they help once you have an interview.
^.^If you haven't already, make a condensed version of your CV in point form. Literally one page, no more. Clear headings (education, experience, skills) with a few key bullets (3-4 max) per heading.
Remember, this terrible situation is due in part to the fact that services like Indeed make employers think they shouldn't have to invest in hiring at all, so they don't . They're lazy, so your approach has to adapt to that .
Hang in there, I've been where you are. You'll get through it.
Very respectable
Hey, maybe start out by looking for bits instead. Sorry, I'm ashamed of my own joke, but it demands to be let free.
I have probably sent out a good 100 resumés over the past few months and have only gotten responses within the past few weeks. A good chunk of them did not bother notifying me that I was not being considered and I would only find out if I logged into their shitty portal.
I am no longer applying to jobs that do not lost their salary range. I had an interview the other day that was a complete fucking waste of time because at the end there was my salary was nowhere near what they could afford. They have been looking for months. They definitely need a reality check if they think they can pay next to nothing in the locations they are hiring in which are all high cost of living areas.
This is exactly what I've encountered. I only opened Indeed to see what ppl in my profession are being offered in other places. Places with affordable houses. I'm worried my living situation will become a problem in the area I live, it's only getting higher.
Like you, I find employers are completely unaware of this and aren't offering enough.
They are also asking for more qualifications than they are willing to pay for, so far I'll bide my time.
The other annoyance is I can't ask for any feedback on why my application was passed over.
One of the additional things that sucks is here in Australia if you're unemployed and/or disabled you can sign up for Centrelink and do Job searching there. But it is just terrible, because not only do you have to look for a certain number of jobs (I think abled-bodied people can do 20 jobs per month, whereas I got to apply for 12 due to disability), but every 2 weeks you have to go in and spend maybe 10minutes or more traveling to the jobseeker place and tell them "no I haven't heard back from anyone, yes I've applied for jobs, etc".
On top of that, if you're disabled you'll get fucked over because you can't work, you know you can't work, but Centrelink refuses to put you on the National Disability Scheme because you're not disabled enough (people who have missing limbs have been told that their missing limb will grow back, or you'll grow out of it. Some disabilities aren't even on it, like ADHD isn't considered a disability and only "high functioning autism" is allowed). But you can be a part of the Disability Employment Scheme (DES) where you still have to apply for jobs, but not as much, but you get some benefits over being a regular Jobseeker.
Generally, the whole thing fucking stinks and I'm so thankful that I'm finally out of it. That and the fact that those receiving Jobseeker payments are being paid below the poverty line because the government refuses to put it up.
I just, ugh. Job seeking sucks, especially when businesses ask for 50million years of experience but it's entry level. Or the fact to get experience you need to work in this field but to get in this field you need experience. Ugh.
As someone who's been on Jobseeker multiple times, it is absolutely a poverty trap, it's designed that way. Much easier to exploit when you're hungry.
While I do rant about jobseeking, I do appreciate the job provider I'm with (since I'm still in the probation period of this job). Like a previous one I was in honestly made me suicidal because of the things I had to do. And while my current provider still sucks (I am disabled and find walking tough, but they expected people to come back into the office, I couldn't even do like one week phone call, one week go in like I was doing), but they make me less suicidal. That and they do offer things to me, like vouchers for ubers to work and they're covering 3 driving lessons (haven't had a lesson since way before the pandemic).
So yeah, being on Jobseeker is such a poverty trap. It's made to feel like hell on Earth.
I won't touch Indeed, but I appreciate that you don't have a choice in some industries.
I exclusively used "quick apply" systems when I was looking for a new role earlier this year, mainly via LinkedIn and Cord, and it was a much better experience. Fill everything in once, and then single click to send an application. There was the occasional redirect to a web form, less than half of which I filled in (as they were asking for things already in my application).
Recruitment desperately needs this kind of disruption. I hope the trend continues.
What's Cord?
I didn't get my current role through it but I did like the way it was set up
I've been using both LinkIn and Indeed. I feel like it's the same thing, but one has a Facebook skin on top of it.
Filter to "jobs that I can apply for/to from my phone"
I agree with the core of this post, just trying to help anyone frustrated with entering the same information over and over, or making single use accounts for applications, can't stand that shit and it makes the whole process shittier. Plus, you can apply to much more stuff without fatigue, strengthening the chance you'll hear back from somebody
A tip for anyone in the situation: when looking for a job on any website, if it has a ridiculous pay range, like 30k-140k, stay away. Usually some pyramid scheme, or scammy commission only sales job that you'll never make anything from.
I'm sure some of these work out for some people, it has to. But realistically it doesn't ever work out.
I've found jobs with good hourly salaries after bonuses, but the catch was that those bonuses were nearly impossible to reach. Keep an eye out for those, too!
This is the world that boomers designed.
I get the pain, but if you're offered an interview and you forget to check what time the interview is scheduled for and you miss it, then that's on you. Showing up to the interview on time is like step 0, the most basic requirement for obtaining a job. If you're struggling with that step then at least part of the problem lies with you.
idk if you wanna interview me at least give me a call or at least an email, companies that just send you a notification to the website you applied through are dumb
Oh, in that case I agree with you. Although, if I were putting in all that legwork, I'd like to think I'd be checking my replies on a daily basis. But yeah, it's pretty standard to email or call someone if you want an interview with them. LOL. Just arbitrarily throwing out a date and time means they don't respect you or your schedule at all, and you probably don't want to work for them.
I was applying for postdoc fellowships while doing a gig as an adjunct prof (do not recommend); I got an email from a PI who wanted to set up an interview, followed by couple more that told me that I need to respond to emails if I want to get a job anywhere in academia. All of these were delivered in the span of one lab session I was teaching. I told her as much and she told me I needed to stop wasting her time. I told her that, with that attitude, it looked like I dodged a bullet.
Are they still complaining no one wants to work? I thought that reversed last year. When they WERE complaining about that, it WAS pretty damn easy to get a job. For entry level stuff anyway. I had my pick of the litter, but now finding a better job is near impossible again, the way it was before COVID.
It's a great anti labor propaganda line. They will never stop saying it now. There's a group of business interests that wouldn't mind pushing labor rights all the way back to indentured servitude.
I heard someone IRL say it just last week. I think the issue is more specific to certain jobs or industries at this point, whereas before it was widespread and there were worker shortages in every field.
What I glean now is that a lot of the "no one wants to work anymore" issues are centered around low paying service jobs. Which in my mind tells me basically that people have skilled up to fill better paying roles, and the overall reduction in employable workers means there simply aren't people willing to work those low paying jobs anymore.
If you want to earn enough money to live on, learn a skill and get a better job!
*Learns a skill and gets a better job*
Hey, not like that!
I am so glad I am a Union member. I would probably be homeless if i had to deal with this shit. I mean, I have almost been homeless with my union, but without it I'd be screwed.
The meta for getting jobs rn is through networking. IIRC something like 70% of job positions are not posted. I have worked in the tech industry and food industry and found this to be true in both. For tech, building a strong network is more important than any degree/cert you could get imo. I wouldn't even bother applying thru websites without a recommendation attached. I think ur time is better spent working on some sort of personal project and attending every conference/event in the area u can find for whatever ur tech domain is. Ideally if ur living in a tech "hub" or adjacent to one there usually is some sort of "area programming language/tech thing club" and joining is free. You can find them on facebook or meetup. Befriend some boomer nerds at them and eventually you'll get access to their "network" and will have a lot easier time landing a job. U can be upfront too by saying shit like "I am looking to expand my network" and this is an OK way to signal "Let me know about job openings that ur friends have" / "please introduce me to important people".
Can't relate. I work in software dev, and had to do a bout of job applications over a few weeks a bit ago.
Nearly every single job responded back asap confirming they got my application.
Most of the declines emailed me back to inform me they declined a week or two later.
I got several interviews, looking to asap connect.
Most were normal and standard process. One was way too many steps and wasted my time.
I got three offers tabled, and all were fine to give me a day or two to mull it over.i accepted the best offer and total was only unemployed for about 5 weeks total.
What I can say is hot damn has ChatGPT made the application process take like 1/10th the work lol
Did I make a simple little copy paste for chatgpt to quickly construct my cover letters? You bet your ass I did.
Did one job call me out on it? Yes they did. And they liked it and expressed that having someone who was comfortable using AI tools was actually a plus.
I sent out an LOT more than 20 applications though. I was averaging about 6 to 7 a day over 2 weeks, so prolly close to 120+ applications total.
Really curious what the dead giveaway was for using chatGPT. I feel like most cover letters are already written to sound super flowery and exaggerated.
"I hope this email finds you" seems to be the go-to intro for ChatGPT lately.
Coincidentally I created a ChatGPT account today for the purpose of saving time writing my cover letters. Do you mind sharing your wisdom with what works for you with your creation prompts?
"In a moment I am going to ask you to generate a cover letter for me. However before that I want you to ask me any further questions that you need answered to help improve the quality of the output. My name is (name here), my address is (address), the company's address is (company address), and the job title is (job title). This is the job posting: (Paste the entire job posting here)I have that whole thing in notepad filled out, copy paste the entire job posting in, then copy paste that whole thing to chatgpt.
It'll then prompt you with a bunch of extra common questions you can answer to help flesh the cover letter out, you answer what you can, and it'll generate.
Make sure to do a final pass cause it'll hallucinate sometimes, and you can hit the regenerate button if needed if it hallucinated too bad.
Main hallucination to watch for is it just shoving extra facts in there that you didn't supply. "I have an engineering degree" or whatever when you never told you you did lol.
Stop. Using. Indeed.
It's a glorified resumé scraping service for corpos. It's free to use for job seekers right? That means YOUR INFORMATION IS THE PRODUCT. All Indeed does is look at what's on your resumé, and then delivers that insight to corporations for a fee.
Go handout resumés in person. If the company does not want you to do that, submit them through their career portal on their official website.
I'm so glad that when I applied for my first job 10 years ago, having no experience in any field, applications through websites and apps wasn't really a big thing and it was mostly done by sending e-mails. Gathered a list of 200 emails and sent those emails one by one, got a call two days later and then kept getting more calls with offers for the next half a year. I do remember registering to a couple big company websites to apply there - and just like the OP mentions, those instantly became ghost accounts :)
Story of my life. Half the time they don't even bother to call back.
At least you have 20 indeed offers, in my country if you get 2 or 3 per week related to what you do is the max you can get.
I do wonder at times how many of these are just people putting in poor applications.
My experiences are almost 1:1 in terms of applications, interviews and job offers. As someone who recruits others, there is a lot of absolutely trash applications that are completely irrelevant to the role they're applying for.
Not saying it's easy, but many people are also not putting their best foot forward.
Don't use Indeed, dumbass. Talk to a headhunter. They get paid by employers to find you a job. Every single professional job I've ever had has come through a headhunter, and the jobs have been great.
This post isn't even about professional level jobs, dumbass. It's explicitly about someone who can't afford a car and applied for service/labor jobs.
I'll second the using a recruiter point, I've seen it help people with MBAs going for Director jobs or people without a GED going for entry level menial labor roles. Worse case scenario they have trouble placing you but you get a professional who knows the local job market on your "team" who can answer questions for you. They only get paid if you get hired, but they want to get more business from companies so they have a vested interest in getting you hired in the right position.
When I was recruiting I was more likely to give an interview, even if it was a courtesy, to a recruiter candidate than a direct hire candidate because I knew they were likely pre-screened and 20 minutes talking to someone who may or may not be a great fit was worth it to keep the relationship with the recruiter. So if one of the recruiters presented you there was like a 75% chance I'd phone screen you even if my initial reaction would have been to pass you over.
A recruiter can be especially helpful if you're moving industries or have a more "unusual" background (i.e. phd, foriegn work history, military - there are some great veteran focused recruitment firms in the US especially for JMOs) because they can help lay ground work and prep the interviewer on why /your/ unconventional background is actually a perfect fit.
It costs you nothing and some of the nicer firms will do interview prep and help with your resume formatting too.
If youre not sure where to start and are US based try Manpower or Randstad for decent general indutry full/part time recruiters. It's FREE!
My experience (as someone that does not fit most normal job descriptions) is that recruiters cannot understand anything beyond "square peg in a square hole" jobs. They dislike having to get to know me, understand what makes me special, and then keeping an open mind for every possible opening. I don't blame them - go for the low-hanging fruit first. But if they won't help me, then they need to say so.
