“What if we took a place known for being quiet and made it loud?”
To be fair libraries are very active places, there are plenty of quiet spaces in most of them as well for this reason. Why can’t we accommodate everyone? We aren’t talking pumping music, just basic conversation, which already happens.
If it gets too loud, there’s always the quiet places for people that want more peace ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I wonder if the public perception and use of libraries would be improved if they weren't these strangely silent book temples and were instead places of public learning and conversation.
Your library isn't? Mine has events all the time
I think there is room for both. Our library has a small restaurant and hall for lounging and isn't quiet at all. But the main library is business as usual and quiet.
The place you're talking about isn't even open during the hours being discussed. Which is the entire point of this post.
Who cares who is being loud are they disturbing the non-existent regular patrons?
Outside of normal operating hours? Why not?
I mean, temporarily loud. I think that would be OK.
During specific hours so everyone can plan accordingly? Yes. Absolutely we should do this.
It's not about turning it into a place for discussion really. Part of it's just being around other people. I'm willing to bet that there are studies out there that suggest that even being around other people in settings like this is healthy and has some benefits.
and we’ve circled back to the missing third place – libraries as community centers, family friendly pubs and bars, coffee shops that don’t require buying half the menu to just hang out, walkable (and bikable) cities where people can go for an evening stroll without being afraid of being run over …
I want this so bad. Why can't the car loving suburbanites who visit Europe and love it just get on board?
Cars are not freedom, if anything they take it away while making life miserable for everyone.
Cars aren't good and I'd like to have less of them... but they're not responsible for all that ails us.
I’ve got a nice local coffee place where I buy a single drink then sit and read for ~45 minutes. Very nice would recommend
Yes ! A thousand time yes !
The library are the last third places publicly accessible.
What we need is more third places where we can just meet other people, neighbors without the expectation to spend money.
our mid-sized town put in the charter that bicycling and walking facilitation be funded. And boy-howdy did they do it! I can walk on sidewalks now instead of the busy roads. There is even a six mile asphalt walking trail now. Gotta go to the meetings, organize, and put pressure on these city council people. Most are inactive by the look of them.
Libraries would need more funding to operate extended hours...
Then people would complain about gov't spending and taxes. Then we would privatize the libraries
This is why we cant have nice things
Turns out brainwashing a society to be selfish consumers has side effects like: not wanting to spend their money on services for the public good.
"They aren't me, why should I care!?"
Capitalists trying to convince the public to privatize things has nothing to do with cost; even if they were free, every dollar saved by the public represents a potential profit they're losing.
Ah yes, privatization will make it cheaper because of competition…
meanwhile one company buys out all the competition, monopolizes, charges more, and becomes the modern day version of a duke or lord. Yay capitalism
In his book Humankind Rutger Bregman talks about the election of a mayor in a city in Venezuela who campaigned on the notion that he wouldn't do the job. After years of corruption and broken promises from other politicians, the people hated the mayor so much they liked this idea a lot.
Part of his job was to create a budget. So he told everybody to submit a budget, and gave them last year's as a template. The general consensus was that they'd happily raise their taxes to pay for new parks and bus routes.
(This is a half remembered summary but I highly recommend the entire book.)
I think the real reason we can't have nice things is because we don't have a way to make sure nice things can happen.
I'm pro-library, and many reduced hours during the pandemic and never picked it back up. Resources are shrinking for them.
And it sucks that there's so many society problems and places like libraries and ER rooms get slashed resources. Because these spaces serve a public good, for neighborhoods, and the unhoused.
these spaces serve a public good, for neighborhoods, and the unhoused.
This is why I don't get the generalized hate on taxes. If I worked and had to give like 90% away for taxes and was left just with pocket money I would be absolutely on board if that meant that the money went to what you mentioned above. Guaranteed healthcare, good education for kids, an apartment, basic foods. Imagine having everything you need provided to you and just having 200-300€ a month to spend on what you will. Theater, movies, a fancy restaurant, or save up for a small trip. And all the while you know you're safe, and your neighbor is safe, and in the fancy third wave coffee shop you sit next to the garbage man and the finance attorney because both have pretty much equal money to spend. But somehow just the idea of having to pay taxes turns so many people off.
quite sad that politicians and the billionaires funding them just dont care about their own country
Those damn librarytarians!
No citizen, third places are not allowed except for church, mother says so. Now back to your depression cave! You need to be at work on time or we’ll confiscate it!
This is the design
This is the utopia, but unfortunately, delinquents and no-good doers will harass the people in late night libraries and cafes. There is a cafe in my hometown that used to run 24/7 but anti-social behaviour made them close much earlier. Granted it has been an issue before, but the pandemic solidified the decision to no longer serve 24/7, especially with people no longer spending much time outside of their home any longer than it used to be.
In Brussels there is a library that’s “open” as late as 22:00. There’s an after hours program where you register for after hours access, sign an agreement, and your library card can be used to unlock the door. Staff is gone during off hours but cameras are on. Members are not allowed to enter with non-members (can’t let anyone tailgate you incl. your friends).
That sounds great. I don't know, neither have heard of, any such place in your neighbor germany. Sadly so. Even I would visit such a place.
And how's it going? No troubles? No asswipes coming in drunk (with their friends) or such? Is it even frequented?
I was only there once or twice in off hours. I think I was there once on a Sunday (normally closed all day so only open to after hours members) and once in the evening. It was quiet as I recall but I guess I’ve not made use of it enough to have an idea. It’s not overly busy in the after hours.
W.r.t. alcohol, the rules forbid eating and drinking in the library, but water is exceptionally allowed. I don’t know if they review the video without cause, but if someone breaks the rules, their after-hours access is terminated.
My local library has 24h access for students to a special area designed for the purpose. During the day the same area is accessible to the public. It's just a nicely laid out area with desks and chairs and a great view of the park.
It's unbeatable at 5am with a stiff cup of coffee.
If by "engage in public life" they mean being quiet and not interrupting others' quiet time then sure.
To me it sounds like people want another public space that isn't a library. Once libations enter the picture it also feels like it's not always going to be a safe place.
The forum!
Aren't libraries becoming that place though?
Yes there are books at my library but they only consume about 25% of the floor by my guess.
Another 25% is hosted for weekly groups run by the library. My kids go to "rhyme time" there. They have "device help" sessions for the elderly.
Another 25% is just tables and chairs, with a great view of the main street. It can be sectioned off so you can book a part of it for a community group gathering. Otherwise it's people reading, knitting, doing jigsaws, that stuff.
About 15% is a study area which is accessible to the public during open hours or 24 hours for students. Great view of the park from here.
The remaining 10% is admin stuff. Every library I've been to in West Aus either is, or aspires to be this kind of format. They're not just about books.
I kinda wonder how much time other commenter here have spent at their libraries.
I do spend my time in libraries, thank you very much :) Didn't expect there to be gatekeeping on libraries, but here we are.
And a big part of such activities is either that they're cordoned off and airgapped (and are done on select timings which are telegraphed way ahead of time) or are themselves quiet. Drinking and socialising to me don't come under that same category. I've been to a library next to a board game shop and been struck by the difference in noise level and distraction there, so if it comes down to what the OP is actually suggesting, I'm skeptical it won't intrude on others' needs for a quiet, private place.
I think libraries vary a lot. Your library sounds lovely. My local ones are half way between what you are describing and the quieter places others are describing. But they are actively trying to be a third place.
I think your point is "some libraries are third places". And that point would hit harder if you gave folks grace. Don't assume they are speaking from ignorance but invite them to check out libraries if they haven't. I dunno.
This sounds cool as fuck. There would be literal book clubs hanging out at night. People are so overworked that most don't even socialize properly these days. Hanging out with folks to gush over that one series all of them enjoyed, without damaging your health or risking anyone else's. But we get this instead...
We need more third places.
How about coffee shops with e-readers built into the tables preloaded with an enormous collection of books?
My neck hurts reading this comment lol
Not a bad concept though.
Most libraries near me have coffee shops built into or right next to them. Is this not common?
I don't understand what is funny here. Many university librairies are open until 9 p.m and there is still people at the closing that would stay later. If every librairie were open until 10 p.m or midnight, you can be sure that some people would make use of it.
I mean that's great for uni students to some degree. I'd like a more accessible to anyone version personally
Idk how it works in your country but where I am, anyone can access a university library and many students also frequent the public library. So basically, if every library were open late, anyone could go to the library of they choosing.
Just be open evenings. I want to go, but I work full time and weekends are a whirlwind of kids and domestic stuff.
Ours is open 9-9 Mon-Thurs, 9-5 Fri&Sat and 1-5 Sunday. One of the few benefits living in a fairly large city.
When I was in university the library was open 24/7
It was just the restricted areas that you couldn’t go to at night and those were appointment only anyway
You can also go to the restricted area at night, just gotta make sure to not be caught by Filch
We could wind up dead, or worse, expelled
This isn't the purpose of libraries. However, having car free streets and squares and parks with lights would be better choices.
This isn’t the purpose of a library you want. But I’d greatly want this type of library
To be honest, this type of library is the only way I see public libraries surviving long term.
Some of the best ones I've been to balance space for community activities and space for quiet reading/study. I'm hoping to have one of those bad boys here relatively soon (on one of the most historically interesting blights of land in my city, too).
¿Por qué no los dos?
Agree!
For x number of months sure, where I am currently 5ish of those months are too cold to be outside.
Oh yeah, forgot about cold countries lol
Just serve alcohol and coffee and you'll get lots of traffic
And we're back to the concept of a bar
They are, or the big ones in city centres are usually, if you count 22:00 as late!
"Late", for me, is generally up to 0500 the next day.
All the ones here close at 18:00.
but but that wouldnt be profitable
Taking note for my writings. 💚
Look at Mr. Moneybags over here drinking at a bar
I would love that!
My area is able to keep them open for about 7 total minutes yearly.
Why at night, lets utilise the day more by not working 8 hours.
Most libraries have rooms you can reserve and many libraries are open on the later side. I've gone to a gathering at the library at night. It wasn't very late, but it was until 7 or 8. I bet if I bribed the librarian, we could have stayed later.
Barnes and Noble
What about the Internet public libraries? Sometimes my town library doesn't have the book, I can get a pdf or view from a reader, depending on the online library
I think the meme is getting at a 3rd space, somewhere adults can go and not be expected to drink or spend money, and hang out in a community fashion.
Internet spaces have kind of taken over meat space 3rd places.
ah. I see. sometimes I take a class at the conservation center and see young people meeting there.
People like to drink when socializing. It’s not something they choose because there are no other options.
Conversely, a lot of people abstain from drinking. Entire cultures abstain.
Of course, I myself don’t like to drink alcohol. My point wasn’t to imply that everyone drinks just that a lot of social activities are built around drinking because people want to drink, not because there are no other choices.
