There's a bunch of Chinese posts asking if the stuff about school shootings, fires, homelessness are exaggerated propaganda only to be told otherwise. It's both hilarious and sad.
I'm reminded of that ex Soviet joke about how they always knew the government was lying about their own countries but were shocked to learn it was telling the truth about america
If banning tik tok ends up galvanizing demand for healthcare reform I'm going to laugh my ass off
Eh, there's truth and lies on both sides. Coming from someone that lived in china for 4 years and was able to engage with Chinese primary news sources. But basic healthcare in china is faster and cheaper, but then again I went to get a wart removed and they prescribed me acorn paste that accelerated the growth of the wart. So win some lose some.
Everyone pretending Europe doesn't exist? Most countries have most healthcare for "free" (mandatory healthcare taxes).
Eh... as someone living in western Europe, I can't say it's free. I would say that it's subsidized at most. We still have to pay a part of our healthcare, we can get a private health insurance to complete the government coverage, but it's still not enough to cover all of it.
Mental health isn't covered at all, ophtalmology barely (still gotta pay 200€ for a pair of glasses, after public + private coverage), dental only the very basic is covered...
Not a single hospital I went to in that country had hand soap in the bathrooms, to give you an idea about the level of hygiene. But going for my yearly sinus infection was a breeze and I got antibiotics. Not a zpack but it cleared up the infection. And no appointments necessary. Breeze in and breeze out an hour later with what you need. And dirt dirt cheap, and on my visa I didn't pay into the national health care system, so my cost was 100% out of pocket.
We are just enjoying the show and eating popcorn, don't give them ideas!
Trying to dodge Chinese traditional medicine in Asian countries when you go to the doctor is such a pain in the ass.
I had to go to three different Japanese doctors before they would give me something other than herbal powder.
I had a colleague who had been a nurse and I'd show my prescriptions and ask "BS or actual medicine" and she'd tell me. I just started asking her first and she'd type out what I need before I went to the doctor.
The wart had to grow so it could be killed
If you'd have left it @[email protected], it would've become a mighty oak. You Westerners are weak. Who wouldn't want a mighty oak growing out their dick?
Wart fertilizer perhaps
Circle jerking about China is as ridiculous as circle jerking about the US. We've been here before with US vs USSR, but this time everyone has a megaphone and an IQ that can be measured with a ruler.
Sorry for being pedantic, but those foldable work rulers are exactly 2 m long (at least in MetricLandia), which is, incidentally, the span of IQ values (0-200).
So yeah, it literally can be mapped one-to-one to a (common type of) ruler.
It's honestly very wholesome to see this kind of interaction. On top of cute moments like Chinese users telling the new US users that they are their "spies," seeing a lot of blatant myth dispelling surrounding the PRC is great to help tear down the Red Scare.
tbf the people who will download this app are not scared by China in the first place
I was told that I was a spy in RL. Why would a European person learn Chinese? Clearly spy.
People are people no matter where they live, which also means you can't trust any government anywhere. Propaganda is powerful.
The idea of a social credit score has always been hilarious to me, like yo bros we have credit scores over here and they legitimately fuck us over since you need good credit to do alot of things like renting a place to live.
imagine making social media so bad your own citizens actively procure your biggest rival's networks.
I think there's a simple desire to move to pastures new. "Use Instagrmam or Youtube Shorts or Snapchat" No, we've been there and done that.
Imagine allowing citizens to be so free that they can go to your biggest rival's social media to read narratives favouring them, get influenced by rival propaganda, and then shit you on your percieved weak points.
It’s never too late to discard your patriotism to a state that doesn’t give a fuck about you. You don’t owe it your allegiance, be it Burgerland or India or whichever shitty capitalist state.
How does the US ban on TikTok thatbmakes people switch to rednote now fit this description?
Lmao
Kek even
They could, but they dont want to.
The ban discussion originated during the 2020 election when Trump didn't like the information being spread there as he thought it aligned more with left wing policies. So he wanted it banned. People kept pushing the "it's bad for kids" bullshit to keep it rolling until it finally went into effect. The Democrats didn't try to stop it, and the people voted back in the person who wanted it banned. So effectively, they did vote for it in a way.
wow the level of cope in this thread (thankfully not that many tho) arguing over stats - which are probably made up anyway.
some people can't handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
Yes exactly. There are lots of internet weirdos trying to spread culture war nonsense, but if you actually go outside every once in a while, you realize that most people just aren't like that. I work in a restaurant that has a lot of ukrainian and russian visitors (migrants). At one point, a large group of russians came in for a birthday party, and they asked the owner to put on a playlist of russian music. Like, really cheesy russian pop. After some time, a girl from a smaller table of ukrainians calls me over and complains about the music. I relay it to the owner, and he asks them what they would rather listen to instead. They tell him, and he adds their songs on the queue. The rest of the evening was spent playing and dancing to russian and ukrainian and armenian songs (the owner is armenian, and there were some armenian guests too) and the atmosphere was just generally very chill. Not a single fuck was given about politics that evening.
Now if we could just get rid of all those power-hungry dicks who keep poisoning the human spirit, let it be with Capitalism, Maoism, Neoliberalism and whatnot…
Thing is, the concern about RedNote is completely valid. Even if you strip away any overarching US propaganda or whatever, we know that the CCP does really, really shitty things as well and take heavy, manipulative influence (yes yes, the US and its defacto Feudal Lords owning Meta etc. do so too).
I'm just angry people won't take their time to look into this whole topic and go with more propaganda-resistant, federated alternatives. Not perfect, but better than a centralized service that can be influenced by either China or the US. Or Russia… or literally anyone. So that we can, in the end, just dance to some nice human music.
yep most genuinely don't care, people just hate to be a part of something lol
She can get it.
As a civ player, I know a cultural victory when I see one.
My people are now
listening to your pop music and wear your blue jeanseating your noodles and use your social media apps.
Norway actually does.
Source: Am norwegiam. Am parent.In the US? Lol, no.
Source: I work with a bunch of Texans.Belgium: 4 months, better than nothing I guess
If only...
"And our tests have concluded, that this is, in fact, a lie."
Few things blew my mind even though I've been a big fan of Chinese economic and political policy for a while
They actually really like Soviet Culture, the marching soldiers and flags etc. Soviet rock like Kino and the like is very popular!
They're casually Marxist, its not something they have to fight to learn about so socialism is a casual existence for them. I figured the youth would be "too cool or hip" but doesn't seem to be the case
They're very similar as gamers, they really like shooters like battlefield and cs go. I assume their MMOs are different but I'm asking about that
It truly is a massive cultural exchange the likes of which have never been seen before. I'm trying to find out if they grew up on the same games, Morrowind Deus Ex Thief Ultima Online D&D etc
Oh yeah they really like Soviet culture. My first post on there is of some Soviet artwork and it got 1.3k likes, on a brand new account. Wouldn't see that happening on Insta or Xitter.
Knowledge will break the chains of slavery!
I still don't believe the TEMU bit though
I like how one person said they don't use child labour because they are inefficient. If they were efficient though ...
You believe the rest lol? I mean it can be true but its just made up internet memes.
I didn't think child labor still existed in China, just harsh labor conditions and low pay.
China's government's strict control of the media did, however, lead to me not questioning the social credit score thing.
harsh labor conditions and low pay
As opposed to how it is in the US...?
US media loves to go on about the horrible working conditions in China, claiming 11-hour days and all kinds of other sweatshop working conditions because nothing sells like a good tragedy, but nobody talks about the working conditions at home and talking amongst ourselves is often made difficult, either by cultural or business practices. It's illegal to punish employees for talking about how much they make with each other, but that doesn't stop businesses from doing it anyway, because people here simply don't know their rights as a worker and companies love to take advantage of it. So we think we have a clear grasp of how the Chinese live while still believing that people here work 40-hour weeks and somewhere in the cultural zeitgeist is still the belief that people can afford a house with a white picket fence, a dog/cat, and 2.5 kids on one person's salary.
Pretty naive to think that child labor dosen't exists in China tbh. Maybe not at the scale of child factory workers that some western media like to depict, but at a smaller scale, in farming, family owned business and small isolated factories.
In farming and small business’s it’s very common to see kids working in the us
As a parent, I would prefer this to modern western environments for children that include TVs, video games, phones and no idea what I do for a profession.
Same.
Not hard to believe when there's camps for uyghurs.
Happy to be wrong.
I maintain this, but other comrades like @davel and @yogthos keep better megathreads about this topic.
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs
I mean america has wage slavery. I just think the detail are just different
USA have literal slavery, and it's even straight up called slavery in 13 amendment to constitution. Which also makes US afaik the only country that did enshrined slavery in constitution. Land of the free my ass.
labor conditions actually aren't very bad at all. equivalent to first world countries. pay is relative
Now ask about Tiananmen Square.
You mean 1989 (Taylor’s Version)
Well tbf, even though it's strictly banned in China there are still some cases of it happening in rural areas.
But in the US it's legal. In a bunch of states all you need is parental consent for a teen barely out of puberty to marry an adult, and some will lower the age if the child is already pregnant.
Yall ever seen the documentary series, keep sweet, pray, and obey? Pretty terrifying that the US allows these evangelical child sex cults to exist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
Huh. In California the legal minimum is 0?
Also are these map colors impossible to read correctly on your screen or is it just me?
We tried banning it but failed. My girlfriend was a teenager married to a marine when she was 17
Lol people actually believed that social credit score bullshit?
But... social credit literally is real... There are government legislations on this. It is not a conspiracy theory.
On the other hand Western media definitely has exaggerated and demonized it a lot. The social credit is basically your credit score, but it is more expansive and uses information some might see as encroaching on their personal privacy and freedoms.
The credit score in China is to keep tabs on businesses to prevent corruption and excesses, just basic things the US used to do back in the 1950s, but would now be considered "authoritarian".
The credit scores in the US are used to prevent regular people from getting housing.
wdym by "basically your credit score"?
I mean I feel real stupid reading into it, but up until now, yes
Plenty of people also still believe the secret Chinese police stations bullshit.
Social credit scores were a thing. People were punished for low scores. It only happened in a few cities and it was described as a pilot.
Obviously the pilot got a lot of bad press in and outside China and it is no longer happening
Indeed.
And they believe Uyghur genocide too. They're fucking brainwashed. They completely lack critical thinking capabilities.
A great way to get people to understand is to insult them. That always works well
This is exactly what governments around the world are afraid of. Every government wants us to blindly accept that every citizen of the nation is profoundly evil and must be obedient to its government.
Russia wants its citizens to believe every single lie about itself and other nations. That everyone in Ukraine is a bloodthirsty Nazi, and Russia is liberating Crimea.
America wants its citizens to believe every single lie about itself and other nations. Every brown person is a terrorist waiting for its Manchurian candidate call sign to do a second 9/11, and that the economy is the greatest in the world.
No nation tells the entire truth, from lying from omission via national security, to straight up war time propaganda, to funding and owning news networks. From Radio Free Europe to Sputnik, a government will lie to your face and tell you its an unabridged raw truth.
The only way we could actually learn the "truth" (if there is such a one when anyone could be as brainwashed as their government wants them to be) is by directly talking to the citizens of each nation. The internet is a great equalizer, the only limit is language and translation. That's why governments censor the internet, or even shut it down when it gets too much for a government to manage.
We all have more in common with the random citizens of China, Russia, Germany, Japan, South Korea, America, Mexico, Canada, Uganda, South Africa, Egypt, Palestine, Israel, Ukraine, Brazil... We have more in common with being human and being subjugated and redistricted in doing what makes us happy and free.
And the government and rich of each of those nations and beyond have more in common each other than to the citizens they try to control like dogs. They all disagree on why they do it, but the end result is the same. Status quo, monopoly on violence kept in place with whoever is at the top. The set dressing and costumes change, but the stage play goes on.
You and I have more in common than with the president or prime minister or dictator we are under. The only thing we share with the top 1% and our governments is the lanauge we share and the citizenship. I have friends around the world, and I have more in common with random geeks in Japan and China, than the leadership of my nation.
The governments want you to think that you have nothing to share and love with another human being outside the lines drawn in the sand by people out of touch with the people inside those lines.
But nowhere else on the planet invests as much money and effort into it as the US. $325 million a year on anti China propaganda alone:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/1157/text
You never saw that mentioned in the media did you? There is a reason for that:
It is one of the most important aspects of our media system, and yet hardly known to the public: most of the international news coverage in Western media is provided by only three global news agencies based in New York, London and Paris.
The key role played by these agencies means Western media often report on the same topics, even using the same wording. In addition, governments, military and intelligence services use these global news agencies as multipliers to spread their messages around the world.
Google whataboutism
I just want to point out that the attempt to compare medical costs in a direct comparison in US dollars isn't exactly easy as it does ignore purchasing power and base wages.
The point would probably be better made with hours of labor at a base pay to pay off treatment which I do think American healthcare would probably still lose quite handedly.
Remember that "Grapes of Wrath" completely backfired as a propaganda piece because Russians were amazed that poor Americans could still afford cars
Just a bit of context as someone from Eastern Europe - it was not that people couldn't afford cars, it was that they were in short supply. People - fewer people than in the West, but still a lot of people - bought cars, they just got them 30 years after the fact.
That's not how I remember it. The average persin in Eastern Europe couldn't afford to buy a car and cars were in short supply, resulting in significant waiting periods (we're talking years). The average citizens in the USSR and the Warsaw Pact had much less purchaisng power compared to their counterparts in the West. Soviet-made cars were much more expensice relative to Western-made ones, and of considerably lower quality, generally speaking.
What do you mean propaganda piece? Stienbeck didn't write that for Americans to read?
Despite the unhappy circumstances, it's kinda nice Chinese and Americans interacting on social media.
The fact this isn't typically possible because of bans in China is not so nice. Neither is the fact the US is going down the same road instead of proper privacy laws.
But still, kinda nice
I mean the US is so scared shitless of socialist propaganda, or rather the political upheaval and loss of global dominance by capital that it would lead to, that it has literally bombed and invaded entire countries of civilians over it. Unless a country has any ability to fight back; in which case we do anything in our power to undermine that country's political process by devastating it economically, conducting covert CIA operations, and funding fundamentalist religious groups.
I think China learned a lesson at some point and, in all fairness, it probably wouldn't have been allowed to develop to this point if it was more welcoming of exchange with western media. (Well, that, and the fact they've funded their socialist project by providing cheap goods for western capitalists to increase their profit margins with)
If we don't even trust China to define China's truths, why should we trust America to do so? You've seen how much misinformation has damaged our political process. If the Chinese people are happy with their government, and data says over 90% of them are, who are we to say what is right for their country? If in fact they don't trust their government, it should be left up to them to decide what to do with it and when. Just as we wouldn't like it very much if China dictated to us what is right and wrong, even if it were to lift millions out of poverty like it did for the Chinese people.
America manipulates media too, arguably to a much greater extent. However, it's more of a firehose method. Western media is fully allowed to lie, sensationalize, and manipulate truths with no other recourse than an "invisible hand" of a "free market" that is fully willing to gobble up misinformation and spit it back out between each other. For every keyword that is censored on its way from America to China, there's a billion dollars waiting for any media outlet willing to propagate the capitalist narrative. Non- or anti-capitalist media does not have similar funding, for the very fact that those who are so invested in capitalism are not going to throw their money at outlets which undermine their profits. It's also not like America doesn't straight up censor things when it can do so covertly. At least China's censorship is out in the open.
This is a whataboutism, to be sure, but look at the whole picture. It's all the more reason for China to weed out information from the West that is regularly and systemically manipulated, in the ways I've just described, to undermine them.
It's exactly the same situation as Israel carpet bombing all of Palestine and continuing to receive billions of dollars in support, only for the resistance fighters to be called terrorists, caged, and starved when they fire back a few rockets. It's simply not comparable and the hypocrisy is stark.
There's also the small matter of their language, the friction of which was highlighted when western journalists were quick to cry censorship because nothing came up when they searched "xi jinping" and "tianenmen" on red note. Of course, this was because it's spelled 習近平 and 天安门 in China. This language barrier makes Chinese media very inaccessible to westerners, and vice versa, which isn't really China's problem as the Chinese language already gives them access to all 1.4 billion people they are responsible for. Like red note has been accessible all this time, it's only now becoming popular in the West as a fuck you to the government for banning tik tok.
(Sorry this got to be so long, there's a lot of background to cover here that tends to be obscure to the average American. I'm only just able to articulate it myself as I don't tend to write things I can't back up with evidence or reasoning. Happy to expand on anything I've glossed over for the sake of brevity.)
The social score thing isn’t really propaganda as much as it is idiots believing whatever they read. It started from what was essentially thinly veiled racism, and became “true” because people kept hearing it.
There were several "social credit systems" that were set up in various provinces. These were mainly attempts to aggregate public records from different departments into one searchable database. It mostly affected business owners since they have the largest public record footprint. The idea was you could look up who owns what business and how many code violations those businesses had.
This triculates into the american rumor mill and comes out as the "social credit score" meme which is fantasitcal projection from our own opaque credit system.
Great example of how "ironic" racism is still racism. It invites actual racists to join and fit in.
The unexpected propaganda win for the PRC too lol. Anyone who might have been doubting the benefits of the dictatorship of the proletariat will now have first hand evidence that life is absolutely not better in capitalism
Wait, China's not a dystopian nightmare?
I imagine it could be if you were a minority or a political dissident.
The fact that so many people went through sexual and gender self discovery on Tiktock, but such things are discouraged by the government in China says a lot that makes me uncomfortable.
Not being able to openly criticise the government and its policies also doesn't sit well with me.
It's not my government though, so that's where my criticism ends. If that's what the majority of people want, that's just democracy by another avenue. So long as people are allowed to leave if they choose, then that's fine.
I just assumed everywhere was
It isn’t if you are privileged, the same as the US
China is responsible for most of the world's reduction in poverty in the 30 years. If you exclude China, world poverty is increasing.
It is, but they're not allowed to talk about it. Social credit.
Some of this stuff is dated. Chinese healthcare used to be less available and more expensive until the government put efforts in changing that fact. China's a nation that seems to believe that they can use their government to make things better.
China’s a nation that seems to believe that they can use their government to make things better.
Isn't that what you pay taxes for?
I pay taxes to stay out of jail
Truth: the strongest propaganda.
picture 2: not real and technically imposible to do that cause we have 1.4 billion people
This makes me imagine how social credit score department people hands look like if social credit score is real
Don't they have computers and mass surveillance?
Big data n shiet
Just that no one claimed that they would have a social credit system surveiling 1.4 billion people.
It was an experimental system in some pilot cities in, of course, a limited scope.
So it was real, in some city in some scope.
It's funny that Xiaohongshu is popping off right on the cusp of a TikTok ban. They're not even flocking to established US alternatives.
The fact that Xiaohongshu is Chinese is the point, it's a protest against banning Chinese Social Media without holding US-based Social Media to the same standard.
It started from an American user on tik tok saying "we should go to a Chinese app like red book" it's a meme that went wild
I've been saying it, but I think there's also a factor that people simply want somewhere new to go. I can't think of a time when people went back to an older platform while abandoning a newer one.
They really need to add a translation feature though. It's getting a bit annoying running everything through a translate app, for both english and chinese speakers I imagine.
Perhaps it will get added, but it's important to note that this is a Chinese app for Chinese users, the English influx was an accident.
Still, China's overall geopolitical strategy is to trade and be friendly with literally anyone who will do the same, so I imagine a translation feature may come.
There are a heck of a lot more Chinese people that speak English than there are English speakers that can speak Chinese
China is a big place stuffed with folks.there are a lot more Chinese people doing whatever than most lol
Most of the Chinese speakers seem to be the youth
Source: I live near their timezone, and used to spend time on chat roulette and Chinese students wanted to practice their English there
This is breaking my brain... world news told me it was bad and told me what "experts" say about privacy.
OPSEC-wise you should avoid most mainstream social media anyway unless you're using Tor or a VPN, whether it's Xitter, Insta, or Rednote
Said social media blocks you from using tor. Reddit back in the day freaked out when the apparent ip keeps switching and forces you to login again and again.
Which world news? Makes a big difference.
Earth world duh
They're obviously saying all of this to up their social credit!
I'm also learning it's not real dude we've been duped
I always thought social credit thing is just in memes
The thing with memes is that they can have a genuine impact on how people view something. People's views are largely impacted by their exposure, as a general trend, and most people haven't actually done the reading to see what the credit system in China even looks like. That leaves a large number of people believing in dystopian fantasies of widespread facial tracking and morality judging from cameras on every corner, despite the implausability of such a system.
Memes literally got Trump elected, memes can be an effective way of propaganda. "Why would I think critically? It's just a joke!"
"now kiss"
Trying to talk about the conversations on Rednote while on .ml is kind of hilarious.
So many removed comments...
我爱小红书！I love rednote! So many cool people and I'm brushing up on my mandarin 😎
So total brain rot absolutely everywhere?
82$?! That's ~8200 roubles! Holy golden expensive fuck!
American propaganda in tatters ban it quick!!!
Cringe
I'm getting tired of all this propaganda... I honestly may leave Lemmy if this keeps up.
"Everything" we've heard about China is a lie? Are you people for fucking real?
Don't you have bug fixing to do rather than spreading propaganda?
Thanks for the flags, I needed them /s
China good, US bad! It is known!
China is... A country. America is... A country. Can we just talk about them without braindead nonsense noise like you?
I'm just making fun of the biased dynamics and what often seems like a black-and-white perspective. By no means do I think that one is "good" and the other is "bad", but I do think there is a lot of misrepresentation going around because of the latest developments around TikTok. We should also keep in kind that the executive decision was put in place over a year ago but ofcourse nobody discussed it back then because policy only becomes relevant once it factors into personal interpretations and ideology.
Cope levels off the chart
Daamn, it's so nice that nobody invented lying on Chinese internet yet, otherwise shit would be so embarrassing
Damn, it’s so nice that nobody invented sarcastic vagueposting yet.
Absolutely nothing vague about what I said. Authoritarian regimes are very careful about their external image and employ a lot of propaganda to maintain it. The closer a piece of mefia to the authoritarian regime the more lies there will be.
To address inevitable whataboitism, it's not their exclusive deal, oligarchs and wannabe oligarchs also lie on the internet, but it's not the point
Quick! Somebody link to one thing the US government has said about China.
You lose points by googling, because everyone upvoting surely has seen the US government say something about China and knows where to find that document.
The fuck are you even on about? Please broadcast your mental inferiority somewhere else.
The US gov just banned an app because they say China wants to use it to sabotage our country.
The president, the Senate, and the supreme Court all declared China to be a national enemy who can't be trusted with the info of American customers
