Democrats should have listened to Bernie Sanders, historians say
Democrats should have listened to Bernie Sanders, historians say
Two historians have said that the Democratic Party was wrong to overlook Bernie Sanders' policies for working class people.
Summary
Historians suggest Democrats might have fared better against Donald Trump by embracing the economic issues championed by Senator Bernie Sanders, who has long pushed for a focus on “bread-and-butter” concerns for working-class voters.
Despite Kamala Harris’s progressive policies, polls showed Trump was favored on economic issues, particularly among working-class and Hispanic voters.
Historian Leah Wright Rigueur argued that Sanders’ messaging on economic struggles could be key for future Democratic strategies.
Sanders himself criticized the party for “abandoning” the working class, which he said has led to a loss of support across racial lines.
More voters should have listened to Bernie.
He told people what to do.
Yes, but people forgot that his real message was to get out there an be the change. Bernie's message was never about relying on or believing in the Democrats, it was that change only happens when we mobilize.
He told us to get out there and run ourselves and get personally involved and invested in our local politics so we can be the revolution.... We just chose not to listen to him.
People talk about "the Dems" like they are a monolith.
AOC unseated a long term Congress member who was tightly connected to the New York power structure. She did it by hitting the streets and talking to the locals. She built up voter support and won her primary.
I know it's an uphill battle, but it is possible to change things.
He told everyone to vote for Dems, instead of make a legitimate opposition to the right
God i'll never forget where i was when he dropped out. I had phone banked and donated and I was watching his concession speech just....wrecked maaan, wrecked at how the DNC et al had ratfucked him and how tilted the game was... and while I'm saltin my booze with tears someone in the group asks him "What do we do now?" and he says something like
"Vote Dem, vote in your primaries"
and my heart fell in that shitty whiskey with the rest. Maaaan, i never knew i still had faith to lose until that moment.
Then did nothing but carry water for them for the last 4 years.
It is not the voters job to embrace a progressive modern platform nor is it their job to get themselves energized over said policies
But both parties have shoved that false belief down voters throats that is the voters' faults when they fail to deliver
Not sure exactly the point you're trying to make, but you're half right. It is a politicians job to convince voters to support their policies, that's true, but it's also equally true that voters should support good policies. While it's not their "job" to do so, they still suffer the consequences for failing to do so all the same. No matter how you slice it, people were stupid to not listen to Bernie all this time.
It was the DNC’s job to be clear about Bernie’s message. I voted for him in the 2016 primary even though I was bombarded with “radical socialist regressive left” Bernie articles in my social media feeds at the time.
Unfortunately, most Americans don’t actively seek out information and just accept the picture painted by the news that’s fed to them.
This is a systematic failure. Non-Harris voters are definitely at fault, but so is the DNC for moving further right and abandoning progressives and for sitting on their ass for 4 years.
Democracy is participatory. If it isn't your job, you can't complain when it isn't done to your liking.
It is absolutely clear now. The DNC is a private company whose main function is to fund raise, period. If they also win an election then that's great, but if it comes to a choice between winning and raising money, they will choose raising money. They will never move to the left to win voters if it will cost them fund raising opportunities from the center and right.
This honestly makes so much more sense than anything else. I think you nailed it. Republicans are motivated by money and exerting social control so they write up manifestos (p2025), take over the courts, work hard to disenfranchise voters, lie, cheat, anything is on the table. The DNC does indeed seem fairly comfortable with losing by comparison, despite the fact that the leftist ideals they supposedly dabble in create a moral imperative to never lose. I wonder if Republicans fucking pay the DNC money to run these candidates we all know aren't the best. They're just good enough to get votes against mother fucking Trump. But not always good enough to win, barely good enough when they are, typically.
The democrats represent the group of americans that think money and "american ingenuity" can solve all problems. No problem is a real problem because we can always solve it if we just try real hard to make the current thing better.
Thats why they are the status quo party, its literally their whole founding belief.
The republicans are a party of changing backwards, which only works sometimes, usually when people are upset: "remember when things weren't awful...?"
The rest of the parties are thinking long term and are true parties of change but you need money to make it in politics, or else not enough people even know you exist at the higher political levels. There were I think five "third" parties on my ballot but I only ever heard people talk about one or two of them.
I'm not sure if its more likely the democrat party collapses out of disinterest and a third party replaces them, or if the democrat party will become a true party of change for the future.
It could just continue on as the party of "America is amazing and will always be amazing so vote for us for more amazing."
It's downright sad that I can't think of any argument against this.
That never stopped you before. Just scream that they're a trumper like you did when you were wrong about genocide and didn't want to admit it.
And the rich.
Imo, you've got all the prices. However, I would put them in a different order.
Short answer: Republican or Democrat, the candidate that spends the most wins. Therefore, fund raising is winning.
There's a small group of king-makers in the US and the candidate who offers them the most becomes president. Recently, the people who decide who gets to be president has started to include social media companies and amazon, who hosts half the Internet. Trump also cozied up to the American owner of the company the owns tiktok. Thats how he won. Trumps also great for social media engagement and news channel views.
Even candidates who happen to be better than the republican candidate, no democratic hopeful worth being of "the left" will ever be given enough money to become the president of America. Even if they started from a position that would appeal to them, they would have to compromise on everything that made them that in order to be allowed anywhere near the Whitehouse by the American ultra wealthy.
What you're seeing isn't the failure of the Democrats to correctly triangulate but the strength of the American ultra wealthy consent manufacturing machine.
I don't disagree those factors are at play, but they're not as important as you seem to think in this day and age.
Bernie had real grassroots support and the dems stomped it out. The key is populist rhetoric and speaking about change, the DNC has basically been running on "not Trump" and "well things are bad but they would be worse under Trump." while that is true, that's not a winning message, give people something real to fight for and you'll win support.
Republican or Democrat, the candidate that spends the most wins. Therefore, fund raising is winning.
you do know that in all last 3 elections dnc outspent gop by more than 50% ? last time we raised less than gop was with bush in 2004. harris raised more than 1.6 billion while trump raised about a billion. 600 million extra money they get is for not having a candidate with anti-rich anti-establishment anti-israel policies. hillary was similar story yet we barely saw her campaigning compared to trump. where does all this money go ?
compare that to jill stein who raised 2 million. dnc probably spent 10 times that money on just smearing her.
I'm not thrilled with the DNC either, but I'm not buying this whole idea that they are shooting themselves in the foot on purpose. The DNC does better when they win elections.
In previous elections, the candidate that raised the most money was more likely to win. Also, a moderate Democrat won the last election. They made the decisions they made in this election cycle because they thought it was their best chance of winning.
I don't have access to the data that they have to determine whether the leftist that Lemmy wants on the ticket could actually win the general.
I'd certainly like to believe that it's just that simple and all the DNC needs to do is put up a pro-Palestine Democratic Socialist and the election is in the bag... I just don't know if that's the reality on the ground. If that is not the reality on the ground, are the leftists that stayed home still committed to their protest? Or is there a point at which they would admit that we haven't had a true leftist on the ticket because a true leftist is not viable?
I hope someone can put together some clear data to answer that question soon... I'm afraid that a pro-Palestine Socialist will get crushed by AIPAC funded attack ads about Marxism and supporting terrorism that will really stick with moderates, and that no matter how energized the base is it wouldn't be enough to win the general.
I am not saying that they are losing on purpose. I'm saying that they are making decisions about policies and candidates based on fund raising rather than on attracting voters. On purpose or not, they did shoot themselves in the foot by courting disaffected Republican voters. Everyone knew they were not going to win a lot of those voters, but they sure did rake in a lot of dough. I believe that is their primary motivation.
I’m not thrilled with the DNC either, but I’m not buying this whole idea that they are shooting themselves in the foot on purpose. The DNC does better when they win elections.
Grey's Law applies here.
I've been saying that since the DNC fucked him over in the 2016 election. I voted for Biden, then Harris, but I never fucking forgot who's to blame for the state of things now.
Berine had the biggest grassroots campaign I've seen in my time alive, bigger than Obama, more individual donations than any candidate ever.
But the DNC knew if they ran a real progressive it would threaten their corrupt racket
I never gave to a politician before Bernie Sanders. I wanted to see him win so bad.
I will never forget or forgive the DNC for 2016. I worked on his campaign. I went to the primary, in my state at the time a caucus, and felt the energy and excitement of everyone. He was the real deal. Unfortunately, he's a little too old now.
Other Dem campaigns often don't invite their voters to help out like Bernie or Stacey Abrams - instead they ask for money repeatedly. I got a million texts for money this year. It's giving "Election Christmas" in a capitalist way.
In hindsight it seems obvious, but to be honest I really thought Kamala would have fared better.
We all did, you're not wrong.
It's a sad reality we all woke up to on Wednesday. Learning that the majority of Americans are ignorant, racist, misogynistic, selfish assholes.
When you mean "all", I wonder who you group in that conception.
Not all of us believed Kamala would win. A good group of people were calling out Kamala's shit since the DNC, and everything since. With the direction of the campaign, you had a good chance to predict Kamala's underperformance.
Let's not kid ourselves here.
This is what many said in 2016 after Clinton lost but we still did it again in 2020 and yet again in 2024. If I were a betting man I'd say that if there's sill an election worth having in 2028 we'll see another, even further right leaning, centrist Democrat win the nomination.
Yoyo look, this guy's fucking nostradamus up in here, right? It's gonna happen just like this.
I'm thinking newsome is the "perfect" candidate for 28.
Whoever it is, I bet you, just like me can't wait to be told how stupid i am and actually great they are by credulous online political minds who call parroting the pundits talking points word-for-word fucking theory
To me the main takeaway is that I live in a completely separate reality from most voters. I would have voted on a dead dog over Trump. He is mean, narcissistic and never shows any empathy. On top of that he is clearly losing his wits. If a majority of voters prefers a candidate like this, is even enthusiastic to vote for him, what can you do?
I also know that Lemmy skews left, but I think we have to face the fact that most voters have no ability to empathise with those worse off. There is no left wing politics without empathy and solidarity. What most of us here want is dead.
Is the majority enthusiastic to vote for him? His own campaigning rallies were a snorefest, as far as we saw.
For me the main "a-ha" here is that so many people apparently still believe his stupid story that he is a guy who makes deals to fix the economy. Instead of a con-man. I have no idea why democrats were not able to destroy this "economic leader" image that he has built. Or why Harris and Walz did not focus on the issue every poll in the last month did say was the most important one: the economic situation.
It was also copium. After the infamous debate we all knew Biden wouldn’t win and had made a mistake.
The fact that he actually backed down just gave a lot of enthusiasm to what could come next. It was historic and made us all stop focusing on the fact that he should have never ran for 2024 in the first place.
The fact that he actually backed down just gave a lot of enthusiasm to what could come next.
The fact that the party listened just fucking once was what generated the enthusiasm. That died when it became crystal clear that no further listening would happen.
The screams of "Dems need to move right" (not from Bernie, obv) are fucking clown shoes and hilarious. She was running around with Liz and Dick Motherfucking Cheney. There's no more right to move to without literally just embracing Trump.
But here's the thing: libs keep cutting their noses off. Why would the actual left give the DNC the fucking time of day? They raise a billion fucking dollars, light it all on fire and go out to brunch. They co-opt movements like the Floyd uprising and metoo but leave everyone else to do the actual work. When we need bodies in the streets, when we need material support, when we fucking TELL THEM WHAT POLICIES WILL WORK FOR US, they spout some 1950s realpolitik bullshit and have some more wine.
Biden: you're immune. Have some fun with it. Show us you have skin I the game. $100 says he keeps up this "when they go low we go high" bullshit and does somewhere between nothing and the bare minimum.
Biden: you’re immune. Have some fun with it. Show us you have skin I the game
You may not remember, but it's only been a few months since Biden said he "wouldn't really care if trump won as long as he tried his best".
He literally doesn't have any skin in the game, the party leaders don't really give a fuck.
Not only did he say that, he thought it helped show he could continue running after shitting the debate.
They raise a billion fucking dollars, light it all on fire and go out to brunch.
This is the most infuriating part, and it made me happy I kept replying STOP to all their fucking "ZOMG 10X MATCHING" texts. They blew all that money and their political consultant cronies made out like bandits. They outraised and outspent Trump and have fuck all to show for it.
I mean, why would the DNC give he left the time of day?
Passed biggest climate bill, forgave most student loans in history, rescheduled weed, etc. And yet? It's never good enough nor enough to give them a chance to do more.
All with a threadbare Senate majority with two "independent" dems and only two years of a house majority.
The real proof in the pudding is the way the greens took such a large percentage of the elecetoral college vote so obviously to recapture all that the dems need to move left. The people have shown their power.
That’s great analysis except for one detail… what progressive policies?! Like ceding the “border issue” to the republicans? Like backpedaling on fracking when they needed votes from PA? I voted for her because she was the only option but in no universe was her campaign progressive.
I think they mean that her running mate did some progressive stuff as governor. Or maybe we're just so far right now that referring to LGBT as if they're human beings counts as being progressive
The build back better bill had Republicans calling fixing roads instead of letting them collapse progressive. The 'middle' point on infrastructure seems to be 'let some roads and buildings collapse' like that apartment building in Florida. Roads are something even libertarians want the government to do. It literally doesn't matter what dems say, Republicans will have the media calling it progressive to demonize it.
Thats what they get for squeezing Bernie out and giving the people garbage candidates. Eat it, you fools.
I don't really know how the Democratic Party is expected to steer out of the center-right ditch, though. With all the dark money calling the shots, I mean. Bernie is the exception that proves the rule.
The electorate is actually far more progressive on the issues than the corporate media lets on. But the minute the Democratic Party were to embrace Bernie-style positions? You can bet that not only the "liberal media" would declare this sO vErY eXtReMe, but all the big money would be spending against them, and spending against them hard. Think it's bad now where crypto, Elon, and the Washington Post are tilting against the Democrats? Imagine they actually embraced progressives....
Not saying I love it, I just don't know what the answer is.
At this point maybe the democrats just need to embrace these hard positions and normalize them. The gop doesn't appear to care how radical their stances are and they get votes regardless of the racism. Trump's whole shtick has been normalizing bad behavior and gaslighting the other party into thinking any wrong they do is a gotcha- they're operating on two very different rulesets.
The thing is, we've seen what the working class wants: Not concrete policy that will help them, but to have their feelings of struggle, outrage, and anger acknowledged and reflected back to them.
The Democrats could have radical pro-worker, pro-working-class reforms in their policy platform, but if what they're broadcasting is "things are great" energy, or "there are bigger fish to fry" energy, then they're going to get ignored.
The Democrat's talking points have focused on the health of American institutions. That's the thing they've repeatedly signalled is most important to them.
It's not what's most important to most households. It's actually pretty far removed from the top of their lists of concerns.
The electorate is actually far more progressive on the issues than the corporate media lets on. But the minute the Democratic Party were to embrace Bernie-style positions? You can bet that not only the “liberal media” would declare this sO vErY eXtReMe, but all the big money would be spending against them, and spending against them hard. Think it’s bad now where crypto, Elon, and the Washington Post are tilting against the Democrats? Imagine they actually embraced progressives…
It would be worse than you imagine. Wouldn't need the liberal media or the big money to move against it. People don't translate policy positions into support for candidates. They vote on vibes, and any candidate espousing consistently left-wing positions sounds like a dangerous socialist to a good 2/3s of the country.
Not saying I love it, I just don’t know what the answer is.
Education. We just signed over the official apparatus to the fascists, though. So, uh, it's gonna be much harder than it should have been.
and any candidate espousing consistently left-wing positions sounds like a dangerous socialist to a good 2/3s of the country.
Harris just demonstrated that running to the right is no longer a winning proposition.
Yeah I was surprised to see Trump is just going to disband the department of education, but what can you do 🤷♂️
Even education doesn’t work friend. We’ve seen people reject logic time and time again. They even did a study on numeracy and political affiliations and the responses were not surprising…. https://youtu.be/zB_OApdxcno?si=G51bPMcxs9R5iY0o
Bernie isn't the exception that proves the rule:
He's not a fucking Democrat.
That’s what happened in 2015/2016. BeRnIe Is So ExTrEmE!
Yes you do. We all do.
I do?
You guys need to think of the DNC as more of a for profit business.
From that perspective, they were super successful in making so much money.
Remember, there can be more money made when you intentionally lose, similar to butch in pulp fiction.
Every single text i got had donate in the first sentence. The DNC had a very singular message this cycle and it was donate. It shows the flaws in the system and it shows the flaws in the party. Until i start seeing serious conversations about serious fuckin issues like repealing Citizens United, universal healthcare and proper privacy laws I can no longer consider the DNC a serious organization.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/elections/presidential-candidates-money-raised-dg
Harris had the most money for her run and still begged for money from the people who were being hurt by no minimum wage, affordable healthcare, living paycheck to paycheck.
The RNC had more funding than the DNC, not sure if that's common or unique this one. While I didn't get any texts for "send money to Trump" texts, that might be because I've used my phone for aiding Democrats in office so they probably saw it as a waste of money.
Remember, the DNC admitted in court that they are an unaccountable private corporation
Bernie is a leftist politician. The Democrat party is not a liberal leftist party, they're a conservative corporatist party.
Further, Bernie is a progressive whereas Dems are status quo
His message hasn't changed. They don't only not listen, but actively oppose his message.
If democrats were capable of listening we wouldnt have two terms of donald trump.
Not even a single term
Hell, if the US could finally get rid of this first past the pole, winner takes all system, the democratic and Republican parties wouldn't even exist anymore, they'd both be replaced by better parties
Despite Kamala Harris’s progressive policies...
Wait, I am not trying to be (overly) mean here but what where they? I just remember her running on a status quo platform.
If she was running on a progressive platform I never heard about it
She was progressive by saying she would saying she would have a Republican in her cabinet. So…”progress…?”
because it's not what she campaigned on. She very easily could have run a policy focused campaign and shown the American public how much they would benefit from a Dem president.
Instead, she campaigned on maintaining the status quo, working alongside Republicans, being pro-Israel and being anti-immigration. If the DNC weren't trying to lose, then I think they're incompetent.
I think I saw one headline about potentially trying to talk about eventually raising the minimum wage, once
Here were some progressive policies promoted by Harris, which we aren't going to get because people thought Trump would get them cheaper eggs:
Launch a National Health Equity Initiative to address health challenges that disproportionately impact Black men. Take on pharmacy benefit managers Have Medicare cover in-home health care Extend the $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket spending to all Americans Eliminate the filibuster to restore the Roe v. Wade precedent on abortion Ban corporate price gouging on food and groceries Will not raise taxes for those earning less than $400,000 a year Roll back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans Enact a minimum tax for billionaires Increase the tax rate on long-term capital gains to 28% for those earning at least $1 million a year Expand the child tax credit to $6,000 for families with newborns Quadruple the tax on stock buybacks Provide first-time homebuyers with up to $25,000 for down payments, plus more generous support for first-generation homeowners Build 3 million more rental units and affordable homes Outlaw new forms of price fixing by corporate landlords Pass the Equality Act to protect LGBTQ+ Americans from discrimination Ensure that no former president has immunity for crimes committed while in office Require Supreme Court justices to comply with ethics rules Impose term limits on Supreme Court justices Raise the minimum wage Eliminate taxes on tips Establish paid family and medical leave End sub-minimum wages for tipped workers and people with disabilities Double the number of apprenticeships End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate Limit businesses from "unnecessarily" using criminal arrest histories, convictions, and credit scores in employment decisions Sign the pro-labor PRO Act and the Public Service Freedom to Negotiate Act Generate 25 million new business applications Expand the startup expense tax deduction for new businesses from $5,000 to $50,000 Increase the share of federal contract dollars going to small businesses Provide 1 million loans to Black entrepreneurs, fully forgivable up to $20,000 Legalize recreational marijuana Enact a regulatory framework for cryptocurrency Extend the expired Affordable Connectivity Program to support internet access
Glancing over that word salad, it looks like a pile of bandaids on capitalism.
Here's a list of actually progressive things that would do what her list would be pretending to do and more:
Universal Healthcare. Wealth cap. Breaking up any corporation that is in more than one industry. Universal education. Complete medical and student debt forgiveness. Complete cessation of aid to governments engaged in war crimes. Complete eradication of for-profit weapon manufacturing. Universal Basic Income.
And yet the only campaign ads I ever saw from her were clips of Donald Trump saying stupid shit.
I voted harris, but I don't blame anyone for thinking that a Harris win would be a repeat of the last four years
You know, the one where she said we need to accept Palestinian deaths so we can get cheaper bread.
TIL I'm a fucking historian, apparantly
It's amazing how much shit is obvious if one pays attention to the big picture and follow the current trends towards their natural conclusions
This shit really was obvious all along, and I don't even live in the US
No shit.
Dems imbraced the race to the bottom instead of being a true opposition party. I voted for them this time around but never again unless they make a platform surrounding core left prencipals and left leadership. Many within my communities gave up on political means to help their communities and threw themselves into volunteering, activism, and self sustainability. You can't demand bottomless support and obedience from your base while ignoring their cries for help.
Dems said they are the party of science and facts but wouldn't support universal health care or simply stop sending weapons to Isreal. If they were just as ravenous as republican are, can you honestly say we couldn't achieve those good things?
Dems said the Supreme court and justice system was courupt, but never even investigated the court or made cuts to the militarization of the police forces. Police are still killing people at the same rates with no real accountability. If the Supreme Court was left leaning Republicans would have expanded the court to make it right leaning.
Just do what Republicans do to get there way but for good. I honestly can't think of one dem policy that has been as impactful as some of the top Republican changes in the past 50 years.
Ultimately we need to come together and demand better because if the dems don't change it'll be 50 more years of being steamrolled.
Honestly, your democratic party is very right wing to most of European. And you saying people give up on politics and turn to sctivism is so sad.
If the government doesn't take care of his poor, minorities, what are they doing.
If the government doesn't take care of his poor, minorities, what are they doing.
Facilitating the transfer of wealth to the richest fraction of the population.
If the government doesn't take care of his poor, minorities, what are they doing.
Grifting and insider trading.
The government and the companies in the US work together as legal shields protecting the wealthy and money siphoning systems from the public to the wealthy.
For example: Johnson&Johnson poison babies with asbestos in their talc baby powder. Instead of the Johnson family losing money or facing any consequences, the company and its employees bear the repercussions. The government investigates at its own pace and might be defunded in the areas relating to investigations. The government doesn't guarantee health care so people don't even know they have issues from asbestos because they can't even go in to be diagnosed without significant cost. Accessing legal help for a class action can also be difficult. These large companies also have huge legal teams to defend them including lobbyists who represent companies and as their sole job lobby the government. And then the government also gives tax breaks to Johnson and Johnson, and nearly free publicly funded research from university research and students who not only paid to go to school, but don't receive money for these student publications. And then J&J can take that research and profit off it.
America is a giant work camp.
Just do what Republicans do to get there way but for good. I honestly can't think of one dem policy that has been as impactful as some of the top Republican changes in the past 50 years.
its not a bug but feature. They exist to sabotage people interest and giving them false hope of an alternative. we have become one party two candidates system, where one markets racism other wokeness, both of which cost their mega-donors nothing.
We tried. Biden's Build Back Better bill had a lot of pro-working class stuff in it. We just couldn't pass it with Manchin and Sinema resisting.
Details are important.
This is about messaging, not policy. Most people don't really pay attention to actual policy, so it's more about convincing your average Joe you're working for them. Bernie had that, Biden and Harris didn't.
Well put.
I believe they don't talk about that because they fear it will cause rich people to remove their funding. That's just my thought.
I think the inherent problem with the build back better deal is it's still framed within the neoliberal trickle down economics of post Regan America.
Would it have increased some workers protections and child care, sure. But it would ultimately be a gift to the shareholders and owners of corporations able to tap into the 3 trillion dollars of funding.
Americans are tired of progressive bills that vicariously improve their lives by further bribing the economic class that actually have their boots on our necks.
People are tired of seeing headlines that the American economy is doing fine while they struggle to put food on the table. Nobody cares if your bosses retirement portfolio is breaking records when they have to pull overtime to maintain the same quality of life they had 20 years ago.
Funny when it was the more neoliberal, pro-business dems that shot it down, shortly before leaving the democratic party. There's really not a whole lot of corporate profits to be found in here, though, despite the rampant misinformation floating around online. It actually raised corporate taxes, which is not a neoliberal policy position:
We just couldn’t pass it with Manchin and Sinema resisting.
There are always enough Manchins.
Yep. That excuse does not fly.
Yeah, and maybe if progressive voters showed up en Masse we wouldn't have had to rely on those two. Imagine that progressives. Imagine that...
Ive always liked Bernie. Bernie demonstrates the Democratic party would much rather lose with Kamala than win with Bernie. Never thought I would see them campaigning with Dik Cheney, the mask fell away for a few moments on that one.
I legit could not believe they accepted that endorsement at all, much less ran with it as hard as they did.
I usually vote along with the democrats, but neoliberals are so freaking elitist and clueless. As much as it pisses me off that I'm going to have to deal with whatever fascist bs Trump has in store, it's really quite nice seeing them get their asses handed to them by a populist... It's just too bad it wasn't a left-wing populist.
I vote for Democrats because I kinda half to, not because I want to.
I wanted to vote for Sanders. I voted for Biden and Harris.
It seems to me that a lot of people are confused about what "supporting the working class" would actually mean.
It wouldn't mean that the working class would start thinking like Democrats. It will mean that Democrats will start thinking like the working class. Think about the implications, they're not all what you want them to be.
Probably worth it, though.
The implications, like supporting a higher minimum wage, universal healthcare, labor protections, unionization, and ending the forever wars?
Not sure about how they think about universal healthcare and unionization. It's hard to believe those are core issue for them if they're willing to vote republican like this.
And I can add to that list not caring about immigrants or minorities more than the bare minimum. Or about helping students financially.
Like the other out-of-touch libs, when you say 'working class' what you mean is 'racist white rural people'.
Half my coworkers were either born outside the US or are second-gen. My national just voted to affirm and support trans rights. Turns out, people who work for money are working class. That includes, well, everybody.
This misunderstanding is why the Dems 'moved to the right' this election. They still think it's 1950. Moving to the right doesn't make you appealing to the working class, it makes you appealing to bigots.
Literally just make life easier for the working poor. That is all you need to do.
What are the implications?
Shame the Democrats just told Bernie he is wrong. Again.
Democrats should have listened to Bernie Sanders, Captain Obvious says.
This assumes Democratic leadership thinks winning is more important than bringing the left to heel. Given their behavior that's not a great assumption to make.
The workers of America need to abandon the Democrat party and establish a unified left wing party (a good name would be "American workers party", yes I know that existed before). A few basic details of this party should include:
- Primary focus on economic issues
- The abolition of Capitalism
- The establishment of worker ran co-ops (aka Syndicates)
- Minimal government
- Less taxes
- Social Programs ran by Syndicates
- The Abolition of Military (with a small reserve)
- A fundamental restructuring of policing (with the door open to police abolition)
- US-First policy, yes it means abandoning its "allies" but America needs to understand that it cannot be the world police forever.
- And Education reform to ensure that the American people will never end up in this situation again
I wish you the very best of luck. The main issues you'll have will be, in order: funding, funding and funding.
Anyone being serious about this will have to spend most of their time thinking about that. Its why they always, eventually, end up being g captured by the powers that be. But they can do a lot of good before then, in the right circumstances.
One solution is through part of the party being a sort of union of trade unions. Unions have money, similar values and members who would potentially join. Membership subs would be another. They can do an awful lot of good but unions can also come with their own long list of problems you'll have to keep your eye on.
Whatever name you choose, check out the formation of political labour movements, as a kind of road map to building what you want. An example would be the labour party in the UK or NZ. It'll have to be done your way and for an American electorate of course but im sure you won't need any inspiration from me or any other country for that part.
Check out the working class party that started in michigan in 2016.
I guess we'll just have to put up with a couple of months of this fantasizing bullshit, before people realize just how much the paradigm is going to shift... We aren't going to be talking about organizing parties, because it will be moot.
Any real opposition will be removed (imprisoned and/or executed), and anything that remains will be purely for show.
Lmao. Historians.
I should have gone to bed at a reasonable time last night instead of doom scrolling, historians say.
Could have had a bad bitch.
Huh, they spelled elected wrong.
Fucking Hillary Clinton, are you kidding me.
If Democrats could hear criticism, they'd be very upset.
Criticism is just a 9 letter word for "Russian asset" to Democrats in 2024.
Sorry for the dumb question but I really don't follow politics. What did he mean when he says the dems ditched the working class.
Things like more paternity leave for workers, universal Healthcare that isn't tied to your job, increased minimum wage. Things like that to help strengthen everyday working people and give them more power and just generally improve their lives.
He means they chose identity politics of worker protections and unions. You buy votes and pandering to business was the wrong purchase. Trump may be a liar but he chose the right lie and sold his base a fallacy but one they can get behind and are unfortunately not educated well enough to know it's a improbablity to the point of near impossibility.
Though in this case he might actually be able to do it, though it will mean causing a world war to destroy every other major countries industrial base and choosing the right time to sue for terms.
Thank you that clears things up. One more question though, how was trump able to flip almost the blue wall States. I live in WI as an example and we totally flipped from blue to red. I couldn't imagine Kamala lost that many blue votes, unless there is something else I don't understand. Even educated people seemed to flip from what I have read.
They should have listened to anyone that wasn't part of core in-group of the party.
I recently tried to explain to Lemmy that non-white working class voters see their social program as weird and off putting. I was downvoted to oblivion just for honestly relating an opinion from people these chronically online "allies" would never hear from, because they simply don't associate with seamstresses/fruit packers/construction site crossing guards etc. Not to mention the majority of these folks can't speak any language but English.
Tell my Chilean wife how she is going to make more money tomorrow than she did today and she will listen. Tell her she is a bigot because she believes that it takes more than "feeling like" a women to actually "be" a woman and she will stop listening. That is what just happened here.
I am from a different cultural context than her and I tend to believe what the people who study these issues have to say ie: gender affirming care saves lives. But to say that this one issue determines a persons entry or exclusion from our ever shrinking tent is political suicide, no matter how much we might wish that wasn't the case.
WHAT SOCIAL PROGRAM?? The Democrats didn't run on any of this woke mind virus bullshit you're complaining about. Trans people were the target of choice for the conservatives despite being basically a miniscule sliver of the population and Democrats just mumbled some generic pablum about privacy and compassion before changing the topic as quickly as possible. In no remote sense was "trans rights" a purity test for the Democrats, as clearly evidenced by all the fucking Republicans involved in the campaign.
This is just divorced from reality, and maybe that's the real sentiment you two have landed on, but it's not because the Democrats did anything to foster it.
Al Gore too.
That's the real problem with historians. They always talk about the past and not the future.
Yeah.
🤦The more Dems and Progressives think and sound like Bernie, the better.
I did vote for Bernie. I know. But this isn’t helping. Regret about stuff you didn’t do changes nothing. We can’t be Uncle Rico about this. What can we do now? Anything?
Get to know your neighbors. Organizing doesn't have to mean politically, and community is the only strength we have.
I'm dead serious. Get to know your neighbors. At home. At work? (lolsafely) Do less work, more talking to your co-workers about work. About whatever. But yaknow, get to know them. And probably find out you agree about a lot of the stuff that's not on tv.
Organizing isn't some nebulous concept, politics isn't for lawyers. Organizing (and politicking) 's just... talking to people. People who like you n me who can't "influence politics" and don't know how to start. But we do know what we need.
People power is right there with us every day, politics is everyday life. So get to know your neighbors
They did listen to him, he endorsed Kamala.
Progressive policies were on the ballot, they just werent endorsed by Bernie.
If Bernie had been president back in 2016, his terms would be over by now. But he wasn’t president. And he isn’t. now. Why the fuck are you people still rubbing one out over him? Trump won for a long list of reasons. The biggest: millions of Trump haters didn’t bother to vote, or they got duped into voting third party even in light of what a Trump win would bring to this nation.
Move on, move forward.
There were more Harris voters in Vermont than Sanders voters. So maybe Bernie should be listening to Kamala.