I don't like the framing in this meme. “Wayland doesn't run on Nvidia” implies that it's a Wayland problem, but it's actually Nvidia that fails to develop a modern, working driver.
That still sounds like a Wayland problem, just not one that they have control of
It is an Nvidia problem. And we need to insist on Nvidia being the problem until they give in. Their lack of wanting to take responsibility for distributing graphics cards on the market by not developing working drivers and not even letting the community fix it by open sourcing their driver is not something we should tolerate anymore. They pissed people enough at this point over the years, with their lack of participation in an driver problem-free environment on Linux, so they should and they will take the blame.
Users don't care whose problem it is. They can trivially log out and log in and select X changing GPU implies throwing away hundreds or thousands of dollars of hardware. Over 80% of discrete GPUs are Nvidia hardware.
Look, the people over at Wayland made a solid protocol, sure. But for all the time and effort they've put into getting it to the state it's in today, it's going to take a long while for all the apps, DEs, and TWMs to be ready. It took so long for the Linux desktop to get to the state it is on X11, which, for all it's flaws, seems to be easier to develop for than Wayland.
Wacom Drivers, Nvidia Drivers, DE-Agnostic screensharing, screenshot, eyedropper tools are all in various states of not working/sort of working/working on wayland. This simply isn't the case with X11. They all just work. That's kind of a big win for X11 over Wayland.
It doesn't matter how light weight and more secure your protocol is if you can't use the tools you need to get the jobs you need done, whatever those jobs are. That is literally what computers are for at the end of the day, not to lord our superiority over others because our choice of tools are somehow better.
Yes Wayland is the future, but to say "Wayland is ready" while also saying "many of the apps for Wayland are not ready" ends up meaning that wayland is NOT ready.
Until the transition between X and Wayland is seamless (no adjusting environment variables), saying we should all just move to Wayland cuz ”is the future" are engaging in the same FOMO tactics that crytpo and AI bros have been doing for years. Fuck that noise.
You are not somehow better because you use Wayland. And yeah yeah, shots fired, down votes incoming. Come at me tech daddy.
You are absolutely right, I use Wayland on KDE cause two different refresh rate monitores but duude, even on amd you have some hassles. It is ok if you change some env variables, not OK for the average Joe.
I'm so confused why other people are having so much trouble, I use two computers with AMD GPUs and one with Intel and I haven't had any problems with wayland on Gnome, Plasma, Sway, or Hyprland in the past like two years. The only environment variable I ever changed was the one to make firefox use wayland before that was the default, but that wasn't at all required for the average user, it works fine under xwayland.
GTK, Qt, Firefoxes XUL, Electron (Chromium), Iced, and more support Wayland. You dont develop apps for Wayland, you develop them with a GUI toolkit.
Fair enough. All I know is to get something as simple and necessary to my workflow as using KeePassXC, I had to adjust a few QT flags in my environment variables. No big deal as I actually enjoy configuring my system, but it's in my opinion Wayland will be "ready" when this sort of under the hood tweaking won't be necessary by the user.
Here, I'll pose a simple question that kind of gets at the heart of what I'm talking about. Libreoffice works great on Wayland right? Good, fantastic, kudos to Libreoffice, kudos to Wayland. Now, name me a 2nd office suite that works on Wayland. Just one. This is a genuine question and despite my decent google fu, I can't find a one. I got Open Office to open on Wayland, but it doesn't recognize the entire suite.
Now, this may seem like an unfair argument to make, as there were never many office suites available on Linux to begin with. And there's always been people in the Linux community who will call for more uniformity, but I, like many others, love Linux for it's extreme customizability (amongst other reasons). Wayland severely cuts down on my choices of what TWMs I can use, what DEs are available, and various widely used productivity tools like office suites.
The amount of knots Wayland enthusiasts tie themselves up in to say "but if you just configure this flag, if you just run this through xwayland/game scope, if you just don't use nvidia, then wayland is ready" is just pointing to the fact that it's straight up not.
And that's not the fault of any one entity. Writing a protocol like Wayland is a massive endeavor and is needed. But developers across the board who want to provide support for Linux, are now scrambling to rewrite parts of their applications to conform to this new protocol because yes, they see the writing on the wall (especially with the latest lines in the sand drawn by Red Hat). But isn't the fact that their scrambling to get this accomplished, and convert their apps to Wayland, an indicator that maybe, just maybe, that Wayland as a daily driver for, if not the majority, at least a reasonable part of the Linux community, not ready?
I'm not saying Wayland isn't the future. What I'm saying is until discussions like these are the outlier, not the norm, Wayland isn't ready.
DE-Agnostic screensharing
Weird, i feel like I should be getting more errors with how the comment section is making wayland sound, but on my mac 2019 it was honestly plug n play even for sunshine game stream (and supports waydroid which brought me over)
Wacom Drivers
Digimend works flawlessly. Also if you have a tablet you should be aware that you're not exactly a typical user. Blender runs natively under wayland, btw,
Much of the griping you hear right now is because wayland got into a state where it does do everything the average user would ask for so the switchover is happening for real, meanwhile tons of projects have ignored the writing on the wall for a literal decade and invested zero effort so far and now are caught with their pants down.
My migration looked like this: About a year ago or so I read some wayland article, wondered for a brief second, logged out of my session, said "ah!" and selected "Plasma (wayland)" from the dropdown: NixOS installs both flavours when you tell it to give you KDE. Tried it out, found nothing wrong with it, grumbled a bit because it wasn't the default session, found the config option to make it default, done.
Ever since then alt-tabbing from proton games is way better, mpv does a much better job at actually using VRR, the only problem I ever had with the setup is mouse cursor changing when hovering over firefox because dconf was missing and it couldn't read the gtk theme that KDE sets to make everything look coherent. That's literally it.
Solid. I do authentically look forward to Wayland working out of the box for as many use cases as X does right now.
Thanks for the tidbit about tablets I actually fo uee a wacom, so this is probably not what I'm looking for. Sway has a weird workaround specific to their wm, hopefully river can port that over. Otherwise there seems to be other solutions, but I have yet to install/configure them.
Wayland runs some games I play much better. It does though for some reason after a while start to lag out with cpu usage off the charts. I found I don't have that issue with xorg. I have amd, and some games with wayland will after a fresh restart have terrible frame rates but seems like five to ten minutes later they come back and it's fine. (issue doesn't happen in xorg) Depending on what game I'm playing or what I'm doing, depends on if run wayland or xorg. It's as simple as logging out to change so it's no big deal for me.
I use xfce, I have nvidia card, I sometimes capture a video of my screen and I regularly share my screen. Didn't even try.
I'll use Xorg until its deprecated or Wayland offers me some benefit other than "is new and shiny and the internet told me is cool"
I also became a bit sceptical about it with so many open source projects and basic functionality not supporting it yet after sooo many years of "Wayland is here"... so yeah, I'll wait until someone gets xorg from my dead cold hands 😁
also I don't get how aggressive people get about what other people have in their desktop, dude let me live my linux life alone 🤷♂️
Wayland has both screen capture and screen sharing.
We have XWaylandVideoBridge for X11 only applications.Fair enough. I used XFCE for 15 years and decided to give Hyprland a go. Still some rough edges, and some shockingly basic things are still being figured out (should multiple windows from the same process be able to set different icons, and windows being able to set--or even hint--where they want to go), but overall I've had basically zero issues, and I'm enjoying it enough that I made the change permanent. Screen share and streaming work fine. I wouldn't call the overall functionality mature, but it's perfectly workable. Unless, you know...Nvidia. I've heard it's gotten a bit better lately, but I wouldn't have switched if I hadn't gone AMD for my new GPU.
Wayland works with NVIDIA cards though.
When they added vrr support for wayland, I can't play games anymore without continuous screen tearing and duplicate images. I guess they didn't test gsync certified monitors on their own Wayland drivers. Until that and the taskbar on kde gets fixed I'll be waiting. Kde taskbar freezes without warning on Wayland with Nvidia.
Maybe the open source drivers will soothe my woes when they're ready.
Every 5 minutes the graphical stack crashed for me.
My Desktop runs wayland on nvidia.... so?!
Wayland runs on Nvidia lol
Not really
Not on old cards like mine, the only DE that I manage to open so far was GNOME and it runs a bit slow, just slow enough to force me back to xorg.
One day I will have a amd card, but I can't afford one right now.
(I have a GT 635)
I just set up a new system with a 4080 - things didn't really work under Wayland:
- Steam was flickering with black areas, even after disabling hardware acceleration/tinkering with Flatseal
- Firefox didn't use hardware acceleration, couldn't get it to work after multiple hours of debugging
- Games on Steam weren't able to detect my GPU
Then I switched to X11, and everything has been running smoothly since.
It actually runs and feels smoother for me in a 144hz display and 2016 NVDIA card. Of course it still has its glitches and strange things happening from time to time, while with Xorg it "just works". I'd say it's still in alpha stage for Nvidia users, which require some tweaking and extra env variables to properly work; and in beta stage for everyone else
What I don't like about Wayland is that many things are specific to individual DEs. Like global shortcuts or taking screenshots. In my app I have two different solutions for taking screenshots in GNOME and KDE using XDG portals. It causes fragmentation.
o wow didn't know this. such horrible design decision! So if I understood correctly ALL the apps that want to screenshot need to write independent code for each desktop environment??? I was just mostly ignoring Wayland until becoming mature, but now I actively dislike it with passion.
So, if this is true and I understand correctly, it means that if I chose to use Xfce (as I do), I'll have to hope really hard that zoom, skype, slack, discord... decide to provide support for not only linux,.... but XFCE or give up and abandon XFCE? yeah f*** Wayland, they really didn't think about the open source community when designing their solution. I don't wat to even think of people that use other smaller desktop managers...
I mean, screen sharing is basic functionality these days, in the interview for my current job I needed to use.. I think it was teams. Is not even something you can chose, is bad enough to be exclusive linux user as it is, always wondering if in such cases something will not work.
Honestly, long live Xorg. if deprecated and I have to switch to gnome/kde or lose functionality I might as well switch to windows after 20 something years of not using it.
Screen sharing is different thing, there is no fragmentation there.
But in order to take screenshot I had to write different code:
For KDE. It also requires special line in desktop file for security reasons.
Global shortcuts are even worse. It also DE specific and users have to manually register them in DE settings. In order for your application to support this, it should export such functions via the Dbus interface. And all this incompatible with Windows (my app is cross-platform), so I had to provide in-app interface for global shortcuts too that works for Windows and X11 users.
Screen sharing is fine, handled by Pipewire. OBS is adding (has added?) streaming through Pipewire too. And I've had no issues getting screenshots using grim, which isn't tied to a specific compositor. Not everything is copacetic, but the things you're talking about are mostly non-issues these days.
Great name, btw
Screen sharing is still a pain in my experience. I'm a tiling window manager guy. I used i3 for years. Switched to sway, but have issues because xdg-desktop-portal-wlr can't do application sharing, only entire screen sharing. Well I have a ultra ultra wide screen, so people can't see shit on normal monitors when I try to share my screen. So at work, where I regularly have video conferences, I'm constantly changing my screen resolution so that I can screen share something that looks OK to others, but 1980x1024 looks ridiculous on my end on my ultrawide.
Hyperland can share applications and even regions, which is awesome, and I tested it successfully on my home gentoo system, but it only worked on Firefox. Didn't work for my jitsi electron app and didn't work in qutebrowser. And hyperland isn't easily installable on Ubuntu which is what I run for work because my work computer needs to just werk (gentoo is probably even more stable but I can't mess with long complie upgrades at work and some corporate software is only available as .debs)
So yea my life would honestly be easier if I just stuck with i3 everywhere but I'm stubbornly trying to use Wayland because I know it's the future but don't kid yourselves, it is a pain in the ass
I miss Firefox remembering where its windows were when it restarts >_>
It’s such a small thing, but it’s the one I encounter most.
This debate is so fucking stupid. X. Is. Dead.
Install Wayland, file bug reports, help everyone move into the future.
X is dead
Looks like I'm quitting my job because Wayland is the future asshat. How about I just run both X and Wayland on my computer, file bug reports on what doesn't work with Wayland, and continue to use X until they fix it or you pull your head out of your own ass? Whichever comes first.
No.
Most people want to do things not file bug reports and wait months for them to be addressed. X gets security updates as needed and will get such for literally years. X is dead like rock not dead like disco.
Unfortunately I just want to be able to work though and Wayland keeps hanging and crashing without producing any relevant logging, despite the fact I'm working on an AMD iGPU.
In the end Wayland and X are tools, if a tool doesn't fit the job it gets replaced. I don't care X is dead, at least it works for me. Probably not the most popular thing to tell around here, but it's what it is.
Bro, I do file bug reports and even fix things from time to time, Wayland is so broken for me I can’t work. Also, when bug reports are met with “it’s nvidia’s fault” and hostility towards the submitter, that further turns me off from participating.
Extreme shortage of desktop environments that support Wayland. I don't want to use either Gnome or KDE, I'm currently using LXQt with i3wm.
If you like i3, sway is a drop in replacement for it that uses wayland. I'm not sure if you could make LXQt work with it but it's worth a shot
You cannot, no desktop environment except Gnome and KDE has Wayland support beyond experimental status.
If I was content with running no desktop environment at all, I could already do that on Xorg.
sway is a drop in replacement for it that uses wayland
IT IS NOT lmao, sway even complains that my i3 keybinds are wrong, those same keybinds work perfectly on i3.
Isn't sway an decent alternative to i3?
Hyprland is pretty sweet, to be honest.
For like half a second my brain thought this was a meme comparing the fictional megacorps Zorg Industries from "The Fifth Element" and the Weyland-Yutani Corporation from the "Alien" franchise.
It's not?
wouldnt be so sure. My AMD 780m iGPU has all sorts of weird issues on wayland atm. drivers are hella immature atm
So does my 6600 on manjaro kde
Yeah lots of reports of RDNA graphics jank in the amdgpu DRM issue tracker. Its a shame because the Steamdeck is the exact same architecture and has absolutely rock solid drivers, but there's really poor testing outside of valve for drivers on linux
Most things would be solved if mainteners EVER updated their app's electron version or stopped doing custom things with it and just let electron read $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/electron-flags.conf
The situation is rapidly getting better, and I’m daily driving Fedora 38 with 3060Ti using the RPMFusion Nvidia driver and Gnome+Wayland. Everything (and I do mean everything) I’ve tried has all its basic functionality at baseline. Xwayland is a thing and it covers for not having true Wayland support in alot of cases. Not like there aren’t bugs and QOL issues, but from what I’ve seen Nvidia is engaged and working to fix them. We should probably try to critique Nvidia/Wayland based on specific issues now, instead of broad brush “Nvidia/Wayland bad” rhetoric…
Wayland runs on Nvidia though
I see people having a good to great experience with NVIDIA on Wayland. I lack that ability, I can never get my PC to run well on Wayland. (using the propriety drivers) hoping the new GSP firmware and the improvements to MESA-Nouveau + NVK fixes my issues. even if their are teething pains. because of how unusable it currently just is for me. course if I had the money, the easiest fix to make Linux usable for me is to buy a AMD GPU. FYI, I have a 2070Super. It is a consistently bad experience on it, with the NVIDIA propriety drivers.
Using Prime Render offloading and an AMD APU also works really well with wayland. Really happy with my Ryzen 5 5600G + Nvidia GPU setup.
I have a weird setup, which is my fault I guess, but it results in me having two keyboards with different languages. And I frequently switch between them in my workflow, so it can be super annoying to manually switch the language every time.
On X I use a combination of two tools to automatically set the language per keyboard, which works even when hotplugging.
On wayland I found no alternative so far, but if you have any ideas, please let me know.
I don't know about other compositors, but on Hyprland and Sway you can configure things per device (in the config file). I'd give an example here but I'm on my phone right now.
I have a laptop and a desktop with slightly different keyboard layouts, and both machines share the same config file.
Not sure why you have a tool to "set the language", what would happen if you tried to use both keyboards at once?
I honestly don't recall the details and can't check right now. It's been working like that for years.
I remember the main issues I was having were around yubikey, my usb hub which can switch between two pc's and hotplugging. So I had to use a second tool which did something on any device plugin.
I think using both keyboards at once worked fine. I didn't mean system keyboard language.
Not a real solution, but if you were set on using Wayland you could get a qmk keyboard and change the layout in firmware
Does
ssh -Xwork with Wayland (either as the sender, receiver, or both) yet?No. But there is Waypipe.
I managed to use Waypipe to open a GUI programa unde another user in the same Wayland display (actually someone else did a script for it, it's in my profile history), so I guess it is possible to forward it with Waypipe remotely
nothing puts the fear of god into me like reinstalling nvidia drivers
"yo why my screen green"
its the nvidia experience
"pacman -S nvidia"
Or preferably nvidia-tkg but that needs a git clone first
xrandr. afaik, there's no (standard) way to set display resolution from the command line in wayland. also, there's no equivalent of xkill, so in order to kill an unresponsive gui app, you have to grep for its pid in
ps, which can get a bit tedious and annoying, especially for programs which spawn multiple processes.Yeah, I just ran into this recently. I honestly wouldn't care if there was a way to set the resolution and refresh rate to what my monitor actually is in a GUI somewhere, but gnome thinks my monitor only runs at either 24 or 23hz. Frusterating.
You're gonna be happy about cosmic-randr
Sometimes apps just don't work properly in Wayland, I have two development VMs with Ubuntu, and in both cases I had to switch to X11 because of UI issues with Wayland and eclipse plugins or crashes when I closed a terminal window.
On the other hand I use Wayland on my own desktop and have not seen any problems.
Sway can't set my 3 displays as extended like I can with i3 with xorg.
Also I recently wanted to try to record on OBS with sway to rule out an issue that I have with my AMD card with colors, and I wasn't able to get OBS to work, installed xdg-desktop-portal-wlr, set the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=sway environment variable and didn't work.
Also for some reason my xfce4 apps are ignoring my xdg base dir variables (I have config and cache inside ~/.local) when using either sway or hyprland and that results in issues with my theming and the creation of the .config and .cache dirs in home again, what is weird is that it only happens with the xfce apps.
EDIT: I was able to test OBS on hyprland instead of sway and the issue with the colors is still present even on wayland.
Using a 3060 on Wayland, Ubuntu LTS. Some performance issues here and there, big problem I discovered is zoom screen sharing pretty much not working.
I login with my x session when I know I'll need to present something.
Thanks, though it's not a big enough problem that I worry about it. My couple of games still work fine in either environment.
I look forward to when all of these getting pains are mitigated by time.
I can't complain, installed Fedora 39 Kinoite and everything is working great. The only thing I have noticed is that drag and drop from dolphin into some flatpak applications is not working; But that is pretty much it and I am not even sure if Wayland is causing this. This is honestly the most usable Linux has ever been for me.
- Unattended remote desktop solutions
- Rustdesk
- Meshcentral
- Software KVM (Synergy/Barrier)
All work in progress, I know, but at the moment none of them work as good as in Xorg.
- Unattended remote desktop solutions
An easy way to share my screen
How?? There are so many tools for that now, I can even do it in teams
My work uses slack. The screenshare doesn't work with Wayland. Steam link/remote play doesn't work with a Wayland host (at least it hasn't every time i have tried it). For my gaming pc i only switch to X when i want to use the steam link and use Wayland the other 99.99% of the time because in general it is better. For work i exclusively run X. I started with Wayland, but then there were several occasions where i had to logout then login again switching to X just so i could share my screen which was a massive pain. I love Wayland, but i can totally understand people not wanting to switch until the tools they are used to (or are required to use) work properly under Wayland.
Uhm, xdg-desktop-portal? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_Desktop_Portal
Good news: Discord just updated their Electron version.
Wait what, really? Has hell actually frozen over now?!
SSH tunneling
Not really, I have some small annoyances with wayland, but nothing major, with the biggest one being windows not remembering their position on logout, meaning I have to re-arrange them every time I logout/reboot... That and if the compositor crashes, it takes all windows with it, doesn't happen often but is a real pain whenever it does happen.
Oh god, this bothers me so much. I have 4 screens and rearranging everything after a startup takes like 5 minutes. Why isnt this a thing in Wayland?
Because there are currently discussions about the best way to go about it... Or whether to even implement it at all
Something wayland lacks but Xorg has?
Basic functionality. Anyone that actually thinks Wayland is ready either doesn't use it or is just straight coping. Maybe it'll get there, but... honestly, probably not.
Come back to me when I don't need to treat wayland like a bethesda game and install a bunch of mods, plugins, packages, and do a bunch of other crap just to get basic functionality.
Wayland works perfectly for my needs. NVidia, KDE Plasma.
I've used Wayland pretty much exclusively for about 2 years. The only problem I've had is discord screensharing not working, but I just use OBS' virtual webcam for that anyway because screensharing always crashed discord for me on X11 anyway.
I was in the same camp one year ago. I sometimes still use it due to Synergy not working otherwise.
It's a common occurrence in X11 that I get a full screen "Oops something broke. [Log out]"-screen, except you cannot log out because the screen doesn't register any inputs.
So, these days: Wayland just works, and X11 (except for some specific software) causes problems. But, I aslo use AMD GPU.
So, what in particular is not ready with Wayland? I hated it two years ago. Now, I have little reason to.
screen recording/sharing, automation, it's inherant fragmentation because it decided that basic window server functionality should be implemented on the DE, basically every driver but a super small subset of drivers for devices the devs care about which do not include nvidia drivers which are a huge portion of the userbase, the absolutely ridiculous architectural choices that intentionally blocks basic functionality, and furthermore causes a crash to completely freeze your computer which forces restart, a complete failure to understand standard monitor EDID, and a refusal to allow you to set them yourself (to this day my monitor, a bog standard 144hz 1440p LG monitor, is not supported by wayland), no global hotkeys, broken sleep mode, breaks appimages entirely, no redshift, the developers made sweeping design decisions that don't work and then get pissy and throw temper tantrums in the mailing lists when people point out that they don't work, heavily moving away from portability and modularity (the devs think nobody uses BSD?!), windows can't raise themselves or keep themselves raised, or absolutely position themselves, so toolbars/utilities/etc can just go fuck themselves, sudo gets broken and has to pipe passwords everywhere as a workaround which means sudo has increased attack surface on wayland, and color management is non-existent.
And this is just shit I have personally ran into the last time I tried it, which was about 4 months ago.
xdotool. I just spent a non zero amount of time building and setting up ydotool (a similar tool that works on Wayland) as a systemd service on my raspberry pi. Made me appreciate how nice it is to just install a thing and have it work flawlessly even after a reboot and all you ever did to set it up was a single installation command that completed in like 3 seconds.
Just random things like screen sharing not working in all applications or having weird issues with connecting more than 2 monitors.
If my laptop suspends (?), the graphics get scrambled. Like, I shut the lid, come back a few hours later, and it's a completely garbled mess. Happens with Wayland; doesn't happen with X11.
well it doesnt work on my graphics card for one.
I can't run console apps like jdupes through mtp protocol in wayland which is very troublesome for me since i using it alot, but i successfully can run it in xorg because it mounts as a folder not as protocol, and yes I've tried to use gui "open this folder in terminal" in wayland programs like jdupes still don't work through mtp but in xorg they do regardless of how i do it
My understanding is that 'barrier' doesn't work in Wayland. That's a showstopper for me, unfortunately.
Barrier is unmaintained, input-leap is maintained for of it, but with no releases yet. Not sure if it supports wayland better tho.
I use the Waynergy client on my laptop (gnome & wayland) and Barrier on my PC as the host, and everything's working.
I got one of those NUCs at work that has new Intel XE integrated graphics. X11 works amazing, but wayland operates like a slideshow when I move windows around. Never looked much into it, just went to X11 and never went back.
Tooling.
Give me sticky keys or give me X
Disabling mouse acceleration forcibly globally
Oh man, reminds me of trying to use slightly non-standard monitor with wayland.
X? Just tell it to be the resolution/refresh rate. Wayland? Just get fucked.Workrave. Does not work at all on Wayland. But I have been using Wayland the last two years and I am glad that I made the switch. The beginning was a bit rough, but I am glad that I never have to deal with screen tearing ever again on Linux.
Of all the things, this confuses me the most.
I've been using Linux almost exclusively (except for a stint of 6 years where my employer provided me with Macs, and even then my personal machinesiwere Linux). I've never had an NVidia, but my GPUs have ranged the rest of the options, mostly Intel and AMD. I haven't seen screen tearing since maybe the early 00s? So many Wayland advocates pick this one Xorg issue, and I haven't seen it in decades, and almost as many different computers.
Is it NVidia? Is that the common factor? That's the only thing I can think of, since I've never had an NVidia card.
What's the general opinion on wayland by the way ?
Cool promising future that failed to currently deliver for most
Some could not be happier, though.
on a laptop with Wayland, everything is sufficient. Xorg is terrible
Xorg? Wayland? Seems like I lack context to understand that competition.
My distro came wirh Cinnamon, and it died two times on my setup after updates - black screen after login - before I installed Xfce instead and still use it daily. I love that unlike Windows you can just jump ships and unsubscribe from what you dislike. This meme draws that freedom as something bad. It's not healthy to the community...
... but if there would be a DE war, Xpect frequent combat engagements, as the way to your land and ten of your HQs are marked with red Xs on my map.
This is a bit different to DEs. X11 and Wayland are display server protocols. For some time all DEs used X11, but it wasn't perfect and had some issues, so some folks came up with Wayland to replace it. I don't know a lot about the differences but one example I have is that you can't have two monitors with different resolution scaling on X11. Wayland solves that issue.
X11 has been around for a long time, though, and does a lot of stuff, probably more stuff than a display server should. and so a lot of Linux programs have come to rely on those things. This means that the change to Wayland is not straight forward, it meant rewriting a whole bunch of X11 functionality that Wayland would never add.
This will probably be a good thing in the long run, but as of now a lot of people are still not ready to change. And to mirror your sentiment, nor should they have to.
Also: I probably don't know as much about this topic as some others, so correct me at will.
I learnt some things reading you, thank you. As a newbie to Linux I'm not the one to argue anything. But I had an urge to shitpost, and my last sentence comes from an abbreviature of XFCE and references both Wayland and X11. I'm an artist more than I'm a thinker.
Xorg and Wayland are two protocols every Desktop Environment use and is, from my limited knowledge on it, the thing that tells the DE how to behave and display windows on your screen. Since 1984, the Linux world uses Xorg (now at the 11 edition: X11) but now, there is a massive transition towards a protocol more secure and focused around privacy called Wayland because first, it's objectively better, and because X11 will soon be deprecated/abandoned. But due to its way of handling things (like for example, windows can't see each other: they think they're alone on the PC, preventing some programs from spying on each others but also preventing them to communicate with each other, like to share screen or screenshot. We have portals to solve that now though, so no worries), Wayland struggle to convince everybody and therefore is heavily criticized, mostly because it's sort of being forced due to the Xorg team letting the project die to develop Wayland, the successor, waiting for every distros and their DE to adopt it.
But despite not directly mentioning those protocols, you're right by saying "you can just jump ships and unsubscribe from what you dislike" because honestly, nobody's preventing people from continuing to use Xorg and groups from continuing the development of DE based on Xorg or simply continuing the Xorg project, but if they want to progress and evolve with the rest of the world, they will have to switch to Wayland eventually.
xbindkeysScreen tearing in Firefox
Edit: to reword, I lack Firefox screen tearing on Wayland but I have it on Xorg.
I miss apps supporting global hotkeys. Screen remote support in popular apps.
Yes, support for sessions in Plasma.
Can you screenshare with wayland?
LIAR
Like, everything?
Guake doesn't work, gnome-screenshot doesn't work, Plank doesn't work...
Most GUI utilities that integrate into the OS of some kind require drawing over apps. It's absurd that Wayland doesn't support this properly for uhhh no reason other than vague claims of improved security and process isolation. If someone's into your system with such a degree of access it's all over anyway.
If I'm not using Gnome, then I'll be using i3 and then I honestly could care less which one, I'll just be using the most compatible one which I think is just xorg. Plasma just sucks I'm so sorry, it's messy.
And I'm sorry but there's no serious work you can do with an AMD GPU either. I wish it wasn't like this but it is, no CUDA no joy.
Wayland is DOA and will never replace Xorg. Deal with it.
This is just misinformed.
Sure your favorite apps may not use it, but Wayland does provide protocols for drawing things over other apps. https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-layer-shell-unstable-v1
I never used guake with i3 since scratchpads exist and are the general solution, and sway works fine there.
and there's plenty of screenshot apps that work. I haven't tried gnome-screenshot, but I find it hard to believe that it or some alternative gnome one doesn't work given the effort the project has put into Wayland
nvidia support isn't great but it is getting better. I haven't bought nvidia in forever but I know plasma and gnome both say they have support for Wayland on nvidia now.
For gaming amd is great, for real work I'd just rent time on some cloud service lol. If I'm that worried about performance my one consumer gpu isn't going to make a dent either
He's wrong all of this works on Wayland.
I used a 3080 on Wayland and the only thing that didn't work was night light (red tint mode). At this time nvidia-open was marked as not viable for desktop. In 6.7 noveau has gsp support so the open source path has improved rapidly.
It was shortly after their hack that they announced partnership with RedHat / Canonical devs to make their graphics driver better. It's going to have a similar arch to how the AMD drive is under the name nvidia-open. However the proprietary driver does work on Wayland at this point in time.
I'm using Fedora, which has both gnome-screenshot and wayland. Been about 2-3y now and idfk what he's talking about, never had an issue.
the screenshot functionality is now built into GNOME Shell with a better UI
Wayland is DOA and will never replace Xorg. Deal with it.
I understand some harshness but this statement is just crazy, xorg is already dead feature wise and Wayland is de facto the new protocol, you can say it is not ready but there is no way back.
If there's gonna be a replacement for xorg, this ain't it chief, it needs to actually work
