So, Neuralink got FDA approval for human trials, and a certain fanbase is VERY excited about that
So, Neuralink got FDA approval for human trials, and a certain fanbase is VERY excited about that
Commodification of everything you think off Past/Present/Future.
and 3 years later they'll end the support.
This was the original cyberpunk-transhumanist message. Not "cybernetics will destroy your soul" but "corporations own your body, or worse parts of your body"
That's a new hell-on-eath I wasn't aware of. Yikes.
Terrifying. No government bailout for improving people's life quality...
No, they're far too busy using taxpayer money to bail out banks and businesses that are "too big to fail".
Thanks for sharing.
Well that's fucking bleak, at least I got a good chuckle out of this
NPM’s novel implant for drug delivery.
So that's how they keep JavaScript devs hooked!
3 years later they’ll end the support
I don't think that's a fair characterization - it sounds like they ran out of money and the company that bought all their assets didn't maintain support. (And in that company's defense, it's really hard to maintain support for something when you've bought the IP but you don't have any of the institutional knowledge.)
imagine physically embedding the fucking musk into your brain, VOLUNTARILY. i can't imagine anything worse in the world
People are still driving Teslas right now. Pretty much the same in my book. You're trusting your life to a proven moron.
Well the disabled people getting this implant probably don't care about musk, it's legitimately a cool technology and good competition for the medical space.
Musk is a cuck still, and I'm sure we'll have to wait a couple generations before we get the dystopian stuff in Neurallink
Yup. Gotta sell it as a medical miracle before you can sell it as a commercial product.
I still don’t get how it’s at all safe or practical to have what amounts to a smart watch embedded into your brain.
The surgery they want to do literally involves removing a piece of your skull. Falling and hitting your head without a piece of your skull removed is bad enough, this is going to seriously compromise the strength of people skulls. Which is especially bad when you consider it’s meant to solve problems like paralysis. I have a feeling that people who are just learning to walk again may be at a high risk of falling. Now they’re at a high risk of falling and cracking their skull open like an egg.
It’s also charged with a wireless charger, which would need to placed on the device every night when you sleep. How many people remain completely still the entire night and don’t move their heads at all?
This is a cool and valuable first step for brain augmentations that can probably help thousands of patients, but the implementation has so many glaring problems that it makes me wonder how well the actual product even functions.
i can’t imagine anything worse in the world
I can... there are literally people who are willing to participate in Musk's Mars colonization fantasies. They stand about as much chance of success (or survival) as those people who got imploded in that Titanic sub - except their deaths won't be as quick and merciful.
Imagine living on Mars in a tiny hut that you can never leave while you slowly starve to death all while Musk is telling everyone on Earth how cool an successful his new colony is. New volunteers continue to arrive in waves while promises go unfulfilled and an endless line of corporate stooges tells you that you are lying about the conditions.
But some people if they get the chance they would even eat musk poop.
Apparently at least the downvoters on that post, yes.
I want to thank Facebook for making it blatantly obvious to us that we should never get any brain implants. They'll definitely use them to read your thoughts and push ads straight into your consciousness. Oh, and you'll probably have to pay a subscription.
Your tinnitus will get progressively louder until you pay your bill
Hello Satan. I didn't realize you use Lemmy.
Sorry wrong thread
There'e not enough knowledge and connectivity in the entire internet that could convince me to ever put a connection directly to my mind online.
I'm sure these implants will give much needed ease to patients who suffer frem tremors like parkinson and other neurological diseases. But the things I'm mostly concerned about are:
- Will health insurance pay for the implant in a one-time-payment? Will it be a subscription model? What happens when you can't pay your subscription? Will it be shut off?
- Will the implant be operated through firmware (like a pacemaker) or software, which reqires frequent updates? If so, will there be - like computer software - "new features" implemented ("With version 2.0 you will be able to share your Neuralink experience with other Neuralink users. Your data may not be leaked, pinky promise."
- What if a certain mentally unstable CEO throws a tantrum that will affect the performance of the Neuralink implant negatively? Will there be any legal protection from such thing?
The thought that frightens me even more (although I am not a neurologist) is that if this is installed in children, and the neural pathways for the child's basic functions are formed to pass through that implant, removing the implant will render the child unable to think.
Firmware is just software that we try to update less often.
Trivia: I just learned two weeks ago that "firm"ware is in between "hard"ware and "soft"ware. It has nothing to do with a firm (a company).
Laughs in nordic
I have a (peripheral) nerve stimulator implanted.
Insurance paid for the trial implant, then the permanent one. They also paid for a couple of meetings with a rep from the mfgr who showed me how to use it best.
I have the device, the control, and a transdermal charger. No subscriptions, no remote access, I don't think it keeps logging data.
Drink verification can to continue.
Neuralink is an excellent advancement for brain science and it is greatly going to help disabled people and those with little function left over their bodies. It's okay to celebrate this technology while also hating musk.
Like SpaceX, they've both been excellent ventures that he so far hasn't ruined (probably thanks to the people he delegates to). Just because it's fashionable to hate him for how he's absolutely fucked over Twitter (which i'll remind everyone we've always hated and agreed is bad, use Mastodon instead) doesn't mean his other companies largely spearheaded by others, and their results, are also bad.
That's not even to mention that the kind of dystopian technology people are imagining isn't anywhere close to what the Neuralink device is actually capable of. What everyones fearmongering over is still just science fiction. It's just barely able to interpret brain signals, it's not as powerful as everyone makes it out to be.
2nd edit: forgot what instance I'm on, this comment probably ain't going to do well lol
The big issue I have with brain chips is longevity. How long until the electrodes degrade? When will the chips fail? Once they fail, will it be fail safe or fail deadly? Also, what will be the power source? Will it use inductive power, or battery power? They are both awful options. What if the chip overheats? The implementation is the real question here, but neuralink refuse to give any answers because it proprietary.
All very good questions. The only one I think I can answer is that I think it was inductively charged but I forget what the pigs had on them. It may have been an external battery pack. The implant itself is definitely not external accessible.
We could probably look at existing BMI devices to get our answer, I'm sure it's even less pretty.
That's not even to mention that the kind of dystopian technology people are imagining isn't anywhere close to what the Neuralink device is actually capable of.
Yet. They'll get to work on that just as soon as they can, don't you worry!
The brain science and neurology advancements that would be required to get to such a point would be absolute mind-blowing breakthroughs in medical science and would completely change the world as we know it. The mental/personality disorders we could now understand and solve would make me so hopeful for humanity and the upbringing of welfare for everyone. This would without question be a good thing.
Does it work though?
I only ask this because Musk has been promising full self driving in Teslas "next year" for about a decade now, so any claims made should be taken with an enormous pinch of salt.
By all appearances yes, it's an appreciable jump in the technology compared to current brain interfaces that are used for the immobile. They did a whole live tech demo with pigs as well as the people he's hired to work on it there. He has top level surgeons and neuroscientists all working on it who choose to be there. Oh and also it just passed FDA approval for testing in humans.
It would be hard to bullshit this passed all the people involved. I have the belief it's quite a different situation compared to the continuing failure of FSD.
I kind of agree. While I think they are not that bad as far as advancements go, most of it is shitstained by Musk, who has to be seen at all cost and have to be seen as the ultimate inventor of everything.
He wants to be seen, stay relevant, and be the boss of everything, that he usually makes dumb decisions, which is a stain on a company mostly relying on a foundation of very intelligent people.
I agree with your assessment except saying that SpaceX's advancements are "not that bad" is a massive understatement. They've completely disrupted and forever changed the space launch industry, with the help of government subsidies.
Everyone also forgets how Starlink is serving remote indigenous communities and scared the pants off shitty dominant ISPs that have been screwing rural communities over since forever.
I'll re-emphasize my point that I think the results of some large companies, which comprises the efforts of many many smart people, can have facets of it be considered overwhelmingly good.
Edit: some more words
A long time ago I read some cyberpunk novel, and one of the characters had an ocular implant that got infected with malware that flashed spam ads for Indian brothels in his vision 24/7, even with his eyes closed, until he went completely postal.
They touched on this concept in the black mirror episode "Fifteen Million Merits". Very minor spoilers, read on if you dare
Not with a brain implant per se. But had to pay merits or else watch porn ads. And if you don't have any merits, guess what they're unskippable.
Snow Crash, by Neal Stephenson
Edit: oh heck. It might have been The Diamond Age.
Edit 2: search yielded
"Bud knew a guy like that who'd somehow gotten infected with a meme that ran advertisements for roach motels, in Hindi, superimposed on the bottom right-hand corner of his visual field, twenty-four hours a day, until the guy whacked himself." --Neal Stephenson, The Diamond Age
Wow, who did Elon have to fuck to get FDA approval for a brain chip that's killed numerous test subjects.
Edit: Just a friendly reminder that ublock, sponsorblock, newpipe x sponsorblock, libretube, youtube piped exist
Fox Viewers: 'Don't get vaccinated because there are brain controlling microchips hidden in the jab.' Also Fox Viewers: 'I can't wait to get one of Elon's brain chips to own the libs!'
There comes the time you have to root your own brain and install CyanogenMod 23.0 "BrainIac" on it, maybe "TorView" and "OpenMath" too. I recommend "FreeTaste 2.0" as an addon.
Imagine how high stakes it is to avoid bricking your brain.
Not your brain but rather a tiny little chip inside your brain, still would be a rather difficult task (that's an understatement) to unbrick or replace it though. Unless they put a debug Port accessible from the outside you would need surgery if you needed to JTAG to unbrick it (probably would need it anyway since if they go this route they probably won't let you access the pins you need to from the outside).
Sure, you can root your brain and install a custom firmware on it, but your eyes won't work unless you install the proprietary Google-Netflix-Microsoft-MPAA DRM blobs.
FreeTaste 2.0
Imagine someone infecting a user's implant with a script that makes everything you eat/drink taste like leftover Jägermeister in a cup from a week ago
CyanogenMod
That would be LineageOS now. but yes, definitely root the hell out of your brain implant!
Edit: spelling.
On one hand I'm excited for what the tech can do for medical purposes and future applications... On the other hand I'm terrified on what governments and corporations have in mind for it, cause I guarantee it will not be good
Looking forward to the eventual open source/Linux version of this lol.
My brain runs Arch BTW
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as brain, is in fact, GNU/brain, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus brain. Brain is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many humans with the Neurolink chip run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “brain”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really are brains, and these people are using them, but it is just a part of the system they use. Brain is the kernel: the organ in the system that allocates the body's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Brain is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with brain added, or GNU/brain. All the so-called “brain” distributions are really distributions of GNU/brain.
mfw I try to install arch linux to my brain and fucking die after it bricks itself
Watch red hat make it to where your brain is more inclined to want to wear an actual red hat lol
I mean, are you going to trust proprietary hardware anywhere near your brain anyway?
I just downloaded my calculus patch.
You mean the FDA approved of lobotomizing a select few of desperate people to satiate the narcissistic impulses of its founder. Anyone else wanna take a ride in this plastic submarine???
Uh, it's a "submersible" and it's not plastic, it's throwaway expired carbon fiber from Boeing...
As someone who suffers daily from a traumatic brain injury 5 years ago that's caused me to become physically disabled and cognitively declined, I'm super excited about this.
I'm kinda excited about the technology, but very pessimistic when looking at the way our current technology is used.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60416058 related. It's going to be a subscription service and Musk is going to have his fanboys hooked in for the short life of the company.
"The short life of the company" might not be exclusive to the company if elon doesn't go back to normal.
Yeah nothing is even going close to my brain unless the hardware itself is open source
Just wait until it's not technically mandatory, but you can't do your taxes, find a job or participate in society without beaming ads straight to your brain.
I guess I'm becoming a hermit then
Or even to compete in the labor force, the productivity gains of mainlining the internet will be insane and ppl without it won't get hired. Ray Kurzweil talks about it a bit in his book "The Singularity is Near," his take is optimistic though.
Basically the same as needing to own a smartphone in today's society. You just can't do anything without one anymore.
Even if Muskrat weren’t involved, this still has a hell no from me. You leave me and the voices alone.
Although Star Wars cybernetic hands would be dope.
Brain-computer/machine interfaces are really interesting when treating conditions like paralysis or Parkinson's disease, and to a certain extent severe psychiatric conditions if you count deep brain stimulation for e.g. severe OCD. I don't think we'll be anywhere near sending detailed multisensory content like ads into people's brains for a long time though. That's so far outside the scope of what brain stimulation can do right now, it's really just scifi.
Yeah, but just a couple years ago, you could've said the same thing about AI, and now it's everywhere. So, we could be just a couple years from brain chips that make us execute order 66 and kill all the Jedi.
Technology progresses pretty fast today, especially where there's money. Who knows, maybe in a decade or so it'll already be possible, especially if this goes mainstream.
It does, but it's important to note that the theoretical basis for much of the rapid progress we're seeing now (e.g. machine learning) has actually existed for quite a long time. Training very large models wasn't feasible at the time they were theorised, but the basis for them did exist.
When it comes to brains, we don't even have a good understanding of how multisensory integration works yet, let alone how we could, even in theory, implant multisensory impressions like ads. It's much easier with things like movement disorders or paralysis because our understanding of those phenomena is much more advanced. Plus - we're only really dealing with one modality there - movement.
Deep brain stimulation for psychiatric conditions does exist, but it's poorly understood, to the point where there isn't even really a consensus on where you should place the stimulating electrodes for the best effects. At least that's what a colleague who worked on DBS described a while ago, and I doubt it would've changed dramatically in a year.
Don't take my predictions too seriously, but
10 years, it'll be possible to have a multisensory chip, but it'll be super expensive and niche 15 years, it'll start getting pretty affordable and popular 20 years, you'll be a social outcast for not having a chip. What are you, a weirdo?
The only thing I remember about Neuralink is that Elon reportedly fathered twins with one of the executives.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/07/tech/elon-musk-twins-shivon-zilis-neuralink/index.html
https://nypost.com/2022/07/07/elon-musk-confirms-twins-with-neuralink-exec-shivon-zilis/
https://nypost.com/2022/08/26/elon-musk-and-shivon-zilis-conceived-twins-through-ivf-report/
Elon musk has a to thing for having many kids with women as quickly as possible. He had twins with his first wife via IVF followed by triplets with IVF (which kind of has uncomfy implications if you think about it). Then had a kid with Grimes and then another kid with her via surrogate while separated. And weeks before the surrogate kid was born he had twins with the exec he was having an affair with. It's really weird.
gengis khan moment
Remember that episode in Futurama where they got personalized ads fed to their brains while they slept?..... 😔
The Simpson guy predicted the future once again
I think of this as being straight up horrifying. This isn't exciting, this is going to be dystopian nightmare fuel. It's not hard to imagine this being imbedded into human beings against their will too, like prisoners in the US.
I would rather be a Borg, at least they were motivated by a collective good will to move to perfection, not puppets of a dying capitalist state and it's related ideology.
Gotta start somewhere! For all we know the Borg began as a simple neural implant developed by Space Coca Cola, marketed as a way to touclessly interface with vending machines, but with the actual designed purpose to make you thirsty af and constantly crave sugary beverages.
And then the Coca Cola logistical AI gained sentience.
Another idea is that somebody found an exploit in the software and figured out how to use it for much more then interfacing with vending machines. So in essence the Borg is one giant botnet accept instead of ddosing or doing database leaching they assimilate people and make them part of the botnet.
Can't wait to sell my excess brain power to crypto miners
Bold claim.
EDIT: It’s a joke about claiming to have extra brain cycles.
Indeed, it would probably be mandated in the EULA to provide it for free.
LastWeekTonight made an interesting episode about medical devices and how they are cleared or approved. The OP's post is about approval for human trials, but I think Neuralink getting approved for the market by FDA and then ruining many lives anyway is a real possibility.
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Good bot. Feels nice to say that again.
Pretty soon you'll be required to get one of these as a condition of employment. Just watch.
Musk can go first. Maybe it'll help him save Twitter. Or he goes into the nuthouse. Either way, it would be a win.
Despite Elon being insane, the idea of brain-computer interfaces could be really great. I'm thinking of people with disabilities or debilitating injuries. This could enable prosthetics with full dexterity that you can control. It could be life changing for some people.
I don't know if that is the first thing Elon is aiming for, but any breakthroughs in the technology that could lead to it becoming a legitimate option to improve people's lives, I think would be a good thing.
This could enable prosthetics with full dexterity that you can control. It could be life changing for some people.
This has already enabled corporations to force people to go under surgery to remove senses or limbs that had already been restored. With this technology, your body autonomy is now live service.
I imagine everyone in the space except elon is thinking about the positive benefits and Elon is thinking about a giant spinning dollar sign while Baby Elephant Walk plays on repeat.
After that is a subscription for you to use your legs.
Based on how many monkeys Elon has killed, I'm not sure he'll have too many volunteers.
Orwell tried to warn us. Apparently that wasn't enough. The implications of the neurolink, a chip in our brains, seems like a bad idea. The meme is on point. Constant ads, which are out of ones control, might drive people to madness. Imagine having no space to think?
No, imagine if EA buys it...
I won't get a brain chip unless there's laws passed banning using them for advertising or for data collection, but knowing our current government those two things will end up being mandatory
And then the next government just reverses that law. Doesn't sound fun.
I still wouldn't. If it's worth more than the fines, the laws won't stop corporations collecting data.
Well... the brain chip experience for Deus Ex wasn't exactly fantastic. Seems reasonably on point.
Behold the Rise of the Cybermen! Elon Musk is the John Lumic of our world. Humanity will be upgraded! https://piped.video/watch?v=TQs3gVobcfg
DELETE, DELETE
He just took control of "his" starlinks to shut off Ukraine, anyone who doesn't think he'll do something similar with these is oblivious.
Where did you read that?
I'd never opt for it unless i couldnt function without it, and I sure don't wanna live forever in a computer, or at all. The potential for abuse is astronomical. Let's hope we have fought for a massive shift in consciousness before this comes to full fruition, right?
If I needed a chip in my head to function in society, I think I would just withdraw from society. I'm barely comfortable with our reliance on smartphones and internet connection in our day to day lives.
Absolutely. This is the only social media I use, cause i get really good stipulation here, otherwise I ignore my phone and have largely cut a lot of the b s out of my life. I'm a recluse by nature, so I feel you all the way.
natural selection at work
They're constructed hierarchy not natural (That hints that someone didn't want to be the fuckup alone & created a destructive system for everyone) otherwise we would be living in a socialist utopia.
I invite everyone to listen to this episode, The history of humanity with Christopher Knight https://www.historicly.net/p/the-history-of-humanity-with-christopher
“Free calls, free internet, for everyone, forever.”
I'm picturing that one day people will need guides on how to "jailbreak" their own brains, because they want the be able to live without the constant advertising and recording. Their brains no longer belong to them but the companies
Probably very safe. Though the tech is interesting, that the company is owned by such a person does not instill confidence about its future uses.
Tell that to all the dead monkeys. It wasn’t that long ago that they were getting slammed for animal rights violations for having a very high number of animal fatalities in their testing compared to similar research groups.
There was even a big thread about it on Reddit where another researcher said that if there were that many deaths in any other project, it would be considered a failure and cancelled.
And now they’re upgrading to humans.
I would be down for it if it was a local only connection, no internet, it would also have to be fully owned, no license. I wouldn't even want the cons protocol to resemble tcp/ip
I'm amused how Neuralink was a highly regarded breakthrough celebrated by the likes of Reddit/Lemmy folks, but once Musk was revealed as an idiot, Neuralink is suddenly "lobotomizing".
Anyone paying attention to Musk would have known for some time that he is a vain narcissist who says a lot of unfiltered and frankly stupid shit and hates criticism.
I think the first prominent example of this was when those kids were trapped in a cave and everyone laughed at his dumb ideas to get them out and he lashed out calling a rescuer a pedo. A smarter billionaire would have just offered to pay for any logistical support they required and in the aftermath maybe given a stipend for the dead rescuers and built the kids a football pitch. But not old Elon.
As for Neuralink I think it's safe to say it'll go in the failure pile along with the Boring Company.
REVEALED? He was like this from the start. People were just too busy sucking him off.
I mean, after those monkeys died a little skepticism is warranted
And vmhis claims are both all over the place and total bs
Musk burned through 44 billion dollars to acquire Twitter and then he wrecked it. This is not a guy who has a plan. He only cares about that dopamine hit that getting his name in the news gets him. Now he's got his own social media platform that only exists to blow him.
I haven't seen anyone excited about neuralink, ever. Maybe it helps that I don't read Twitter though.
There's a reason why redditors are known for being the biggest circlejerkers on the internet.
What other proof do you need to realize that it ends badly? The recent cases of Ransomware don't worry you at all?
Deus Ex Human Revolution was such a nice game
I'm in the awkward position of being genuinely excited by this type of technology while desperately wishing literally anyone but Elon Musk was pushing them.
Doesn't matter who pushes them, it only matters who regulates and pushes to control them.
Ill be waiting for the Neuralink - X
This game's advertising is so effective, people voluntarily put it in memes (myself included).
What would a failed partial upgrade would look like on the brain?
Literal blue screen of death
Comic Book series Transmetropolitan has a few panels like this I believe. I can't remember if it's from his glasses ot an implant though. AR advertisements on top of real world advertising.
There were the hallucinogenic ads too that would get sprayed in your face as a mist, and the hypnotism ads on television that made you dream about the product all night.
I love Transmet.
I know the meme is making fun of these people, but the “expectation” makes it look like the only thing they expect to get out of it is feeling like they’re cool for having it
See also: Google Glass
One would imagine that the DX fanbase would be aware of what a bad idea this is, just think back to HR and the replacement chip thing... Now imagine that without there even being a replacement, that they'd have implemented all that in secret.
For those who don't know. In Human Revolution the manufacturer of these brain chips sent out a version that allows them to make you go zombie mode on command, like The Last of Us zombies. As a political move. No way in hell I ever have one of these put into me.
The factory that makes them will be a primary target in the future mind wars.
Came across the concept of Transhumanism a number of years ago in an English class on futuristic literature. Charles Stross's Accelerando was the main text. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
You have been banned for hate speech reason "@libsoftiktok YOU ARE A HORRIBLE PERSON AND NEED TO DIE, YOU LAUGH AT QUEER PEOPLE DYING" Self termination in 3, 2, 1!
Considering the person spearheading this, it seems like the opposite might be the result.
Ive gotten suspended for calling out libs of tiktok before, keep in mind libs of tiktok has laughed at the deaths of queer people
Now this really would be cancel culture going too far🤣
They won't even need to stream ads into your brain, because if the whole point is to influence your mind on stuff, well they'll have root access to do so without you realising anyway.
Brains gotta poop
This is bad news, right?
Also FDA is wasting time on this rubbish, I hope someone will be held accountable.
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All the Elon stans can get brain chips implanted in their head while buying Twitter X merchandise.
In my teens I thought I'd be like the Major or Batou in the cyberpunk future.
Nope, Togusa. CYBER BRAIN BAD
Much like the world in the book A Witch's Sin
A fellow Goblin, I see!