On an alt because my brother knows about my main, and I don't want this attention to come towards my parents and make it to my grandparents [somehow]
I never had a relationship with my grandparents from either side of my family. On my father's side, they died before I was born, and on my mother's I barely ever saw them. And when I did, it seemed as though they had no intensions of speaking or interacting with me. I was at home for the longer weekend because my parents needed help cleaning out the attic, and in one of the old boxes there was a old picture of my grandmother and my mom when she was younger. The picture got me thinking about why my mother's grandparents always had acted so strange around me, as if they were avoiding me entirely. I brought the subject up to my mother while we were cleaning up the attic, and she told me why. She told me that my grandparents had always been hyper-religious, specifically catholic. This came as no surprise as I had deduced such from various mannerisms they had shown in the little time I had meet them. She finally said that the reason my grandparents didn't want to be around me was because I was left handed.
WHAT.
She explained further that the left-hand had been interpreted as the devil's hand as a catholic superstition. Because of this, my grandparents had always been wary of me, which grew out to them avoiding having a relationship with me entirely. I'm at a loss for words as to how these insane traditions continue to be prevalent in religious circles, especially in older individuals. It saddens me that despite how Christians often claim to be a welcoming community to all people, that many exclusive and elitist traditions continue to be practiced. I hope as time goes on, we open our eyes to realize how absolutely batshit insane these traditions, and maybe religions as a whole, really are.
Sounds like you were better off never interacting with those nutjobs. Good for your mom protecting you from their crazy, because that is the sort of thing that would leave a scar on an impressionable young mind.
My wife's mom was left handed but forced to use her right hand to write.
Anyway, she died of a degeneratieve nerve disorder which slowly took away her ability to control her muscles, while her brain reminded intact. Really terrible. Her right hand was among the last part of her body to lose control, so she was able to write after she lost the ability to speak.
So by pure chance at least one person benefitted from these crazy anti-leftie ideas. (She could just as easily have lost her ability to use her right hand first, which would have been a horrible twist of fate.)
Why the /s? I ran into my sister a couple of times already. First time she recognised my nick, second she didn't and quoted my own comment back to me in real life because it was funny. I just told her to check the username when I recognised it.
So much of Catholocism is extra-Biblical it's NUTS.
For example... the whole bit about no meat on Fridays. It had such a cultural impact that this is why restaurants do fish and chowder specials on Fridays.
There is absolutely no Biblical basis for it, but try telling that to a devout Catholic.
Also the reason priests can't marry has nothing to do with Jesus being celibate* and everything to do with medieval inheritance laws and making sure church land never leaves church ownership.
*In fact (assuming he existed at all) Jesus almost certainly was not celibate. You pretty much could not be taken seriously as a teacher in Judaism in that time period unless you were married. (Who tf was getting married at Caana and why would it have been his problem that they were out of wine if he was just another guest? But if he was the one getting married, well...)
Yeah, if he was real, he seemed to be pretty close to Mary of Magdolin (or whatever the place was), who was a prostitute during a time when celibacy wasn't really celebrated. I wouldn't even rule out him having kids.
Also Protestantism was a thing because of how corrupt the Catholic church got. They needed the Crusades funded, so they offered forgiveness for sins in return for either service in the Crusades or a financial donation in lieu of service. Then over time, that just became another thing that could be bought whenever, frequently after someone's death, which is fucked up on another level because people were guilted into paying for the souls of their loved ones so they could get into heaven even if they didn't confess in time (which they might have, or they might have lived a good life, but if you want to be sure to see grandpa after you die, better pay up just to be safe).
All the signs are there that Christianity is just a scam, I wish everyone could see it as well as understand that there's secular reasons to not do evil shit, it's just not as arbitrary about defining what is and isn't evil.
My favorite extra-biblical notion in Catholicism is their weird veneration of Mary. Catholics have this belief that Mary was this divine demi-god that was not only a sinless, flawless, human being, but also stayed a virgin her whole life. Despite the fact that the Catholic Bible literally says that she had other kids with Joseph and that Jesus had brothers.
It's this super bizarre JK Rowling-ization of the Bible that a council unilaterally declared, like, 400 years after Jesus. There's no mention of any of the shit they claim Mary did in the actual Bible yet all Catholics I've ever met vehemently defend these belief.
I was taught that when the Church was converting the pagans, they grabbed a lot of pagan beliefs/rituals and repurposed them. It was just easier to turn Mary into the local Goddess than it was to eradicate the Goddess completely. See Yukle logs and the Easter bunny.
It's old Roman superstition, basically. The Latin word for left is sinister and it had negative connotations even then. Predates Christianity by a decent bit yet that didn't stop the Romans who later turned Catholic from perpetuating their superstitions as dogma.
The reason for eating fish today is money making in the past.
"Fishermen were hurting. So much so that when Henry's young son, Edward VI, took over in 1547, fast days were reinstated by law — "for worldly and civil policy, to spare flesh, and use fish, for the benefit of the commonwealth, where many be fishers, and use the trade of living.""
Its origins in worshiping the fish god "Dagon" are... interesting to say the least.
But it is by far the only example.
Easter is reputedly (I heard - ofc really who knows) the name of a mesopotamian sun god's wife, where the worshipers would have an orgy with temple priestesses/prostitutes and then the next year do human sacrifices of the babies born from the previous years orgy. Exodus 23:13 be damned (“Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips." emphasis added). Notably, b/c Easter herself was supposedly visited by her dead husband (now the sun god) and in so doing turned a nearby bird into an egg-laying rabbit (or... vice versa? or something?), they would take the blood from the sacrifices and dip eggs into them. To this day the South American celebrations of Easter will only color their eggs red, not pastel as is done in many Western areas... and supposedly they have little idea why - it's just their tradition started sometime in the past and now mostly forgotten.
And the link between Christmas and the yearly winter solstice - worshipping a tree, the date of December 25, etc. - is very well-known.
If even 1/10th of any of this were true, that would be strong support for what you said - a LOT has been added over time. The Bible itself, even the Old Testament, while it does single out left-handedness as being "odd", often presents left-handedness as an ADVANTAGE (or strength and riches), or at least not terribly cursed - e.g. Judges 3:15-21, Judges 20:16 1 Chronicles 12:2, etc. Then again, the "tradition" of Catholicism (which I grew up under) is that people should never read the Bible, b/c we are too dum-dumbz to understand it, and the people should trust the priests to fondle the children explain everything properly.
So yeah, you probably are better off, even if you develop a relationship with them as an adult, to have avoided that indirect indoctrination as a child.
Then again, the "tradition" of Catholicism (which I grew up under) is that people should never read the Bible, b/c we are too dum-dumbz to understand it, and the people should trust the priests to fondle the children explain everything properly.
Hmm, what other religion does that remind me of 🤔
but really
!it's probably a thing in many old and vaguely formulated religions, though!<
It seems so weird to me when people think that their beliefs and practices come from words on a page.
That's just not how culture works.
It's a living thing, like language. What we do and what we think it means is passed down, influenced by events and neighbors, sometimes changing slowly over time, sometimes proving incredibly durable, sometimes undergoing rapid mutations.
Christianity doesn't come from the bible anymore than words come from the dictionary.
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
I was expecting some numerology bullshit or something akin. An acquaintance of mine was refused a baptism as a child on the grounds of being an antichrist or something.
My older brother and I are my Mom's Mom's only grandsons (the rest of the grand babies are all girls), she shunned my brother because he is a lefty, she shunned the granddaughters because they're not male, and then there's me being her pride and joy as a tall well-educated right handed male who shunned her for being such a judgemental religious cunt of a woman.
Edit: In addition, I'm sorry you've had to deal with this. Nobody should be treated so poorly by their grandparents because of a crippling birth defect like being born left-handed 😉.
The word 'sinister' derives from 'the left side', which shows we've been aware of the strong links between left-handedness and the unholy prince of falsehood for some time. Have fun in hell, abomination!
I feel like, in Christian theology, Doubting Thomas had a point.
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
I mean, ok... in the assumption of "magic" times, maybe just believe?
But in reality, someone claims to come back from the DEAD?!
Yeah, doubt. A lot of doubt.
His lack of "faith" was well founded in REALITY, so Jesus Christ, fucking showed up and proved it. Cool.
But we're to take this "remembrance" of someone doubting the impossible as unwise.
Fuck that, Christ showed up and said check my shit.... and was thus, confirmed.
If anything, this parable tells me TO doubt until proven otherwise. But hey, God/Jesus/Yaweh/Whatever hasn't showed up to collectively remove the doubt of any "Thomas."
As we can't verify, as Thomas did, the word of whatever, we SHOULD doubt.
God/Christ/Yahweh/Whatever, I challenge you, come down. Prove every doubting Thomas wrong. Show divinity. A legion of inbred Americans are waiting. A legion of people who weren't taught critical thought are waiting. Do it.
Show fucking works, bitch. I directly challenge you, from the Bible Belt of America, to the so-called Lord upon High, SHOW FUCKING WORKS.
Hell, I've been ready to die since I was fucking seven years old. SMITE ME PERSONALLY, bitch ass pedophile who impregnated a child, according to scripture. If you are the king of heaven, I choose to serve in oblivion.
My mother was disfellowshipped from our Kingdom Hall, because my father committed adultery. The lesson is, don't expect even a cunt-hair's worth of logic from religious institutions.
Sad to say I know enough about religious fuckery to know why it makes sense in their mind.
Men can't be expected to control their urges. So its the wife's responsibility to keep the husband sexually sated so he doesn't think about cheating. Therefore, its her fault.
Grandfather was beaten when he tried to use his left hand in school (Catholic run), father was not beaten but also forced to use right hand in school. I was in kindergarten and the teacher pointed out that 'we need to fix that' referring to my left handed writing. My mother must have given her a stern warning because I never heard anything else about it.
Nothing as drastic here, but, my father is left handed and he pushed me to use my right because of how much of the world is designed around right handers. He didn't use physical force but definitely pushed hard for me to use my left. That could be the reason for my atrocious handwriting.
This used to be a thing even if you were not a religious nutjob. I lot of babies were forced to use their right hands if they showed any left handed tendencies.
My great grandma grew up during the depression and was forced into right-handedness at public school.
They had those desks that are basically just seats with a little handrest big enough for your books on one side. They didn't have any left-handed ones, so she had to learn right-handed.
I think she dropped out in the fourth grade, so she was never a terrific writer. But she was pretty ambidextrous which came in handy a couple times when she broke her hand.
Religion has nothing to do with the cheeto. He can't even hold a Bible right side up. Tbf though I doubt the majority of Christians in the US have ever actually read the Bible and analyzed it themselves.
This might be the wrong community to say this in but...
As far as I can tell it has never been official catholic dogma to persecute left-handed children. It's just not a thing.
Now Catholicism does come with a baggage of superstitions inherited from ancient Rome, including the whole "sinistra" thing. However while I strongly believe organized religion is the roots of many evils, this is hardly one of them. Your grandparents were just complete nutjobs. I've heard several stories of "gram-gram was freaked-out when I started showing left-hand dominance" (from people who are now 40+ because this superstition had died off before the war) but they always ended with gram-gram getting over herself.
Well, it was common for schools back in the early-mid 1900s to force lefties to write with their right hands. Not just Catholic specifically, my grandmother's public school forced her to write right-handed.
But I can say that no one in the family was ex-communicated for being a lefty, and if they were, it was prior to the 1900s. You're right, OP's grandparents are just crazy unless OP was born in the 1920s or something.
My ex can write with both hands because her parents wouldn't let her be left handed. I can tell you she's significantly younger than you're thinking. She was also catholic
My mom is left handed, was raised catholic, and if I remember correctly my grandpa had to tell a teacher to fuck off who wanted her to learn to write with her right hand.
I'm not disagreeing that the superstition exists, but anyone who was still preventing children from being left-handed after WWII was either old or a fucking moron. Now maybe there's some correlation between religiousness and susceptibility to superstition (/s) but I think that's where the catholic church's involvement ends. There's enough terrible things to blame them for, no need to make stuff up.
I hope as time goes on, we open our eyes to realize how absolutely batshit insane these traditions, and maybe religions as a whole, really are.
Religion is designed to destroy a person’s ability to think critically. That’s why children are indoctrinated from a very young age and the result is that religious people are completely unable to question their beliefs. It’s really evil stuff.
I went to a private Catholic school run by nuns prior to highschool. One of my friends was left handed and they forced him to learn to write with his right hand. They always told him it was wrong to use his left hand.
My mom, 90 now, raised by German-American parents in the 30s, swears she was born left handed and was forced to change in kindergarten. Duck those old school superstitions.
Yeah... This is also partly why the dominant (read in church as "sinful") traits aren't prevalent, like having 6 fingers on one hand, or webbed hands, or a plethora of other indicators that YOU'RE A WITCH!
Had a teacher in school with fucked up looking hands writing. It was because she was left handed, and forced to learn various skills in school with her right hand
It was extremely common up until about the 60s, so anyone born in that era may hold the same beliefs. My grandmother was forced into right handedness (in Jamaica).
I know a guy who was forced to write right-handed in school in Massachusetts. He's about 25 now. It's crazy to think that there's still people out there believing this stuff.
That sucks, sorry. I'm left handed and got (still get) teased,but this is over the top. Glad you seam no worse for the wear. Knowing this I would "kill them with kindness" ,but to others in front of them. You clearly are not the devil they think you are, so show them.
I'm a Christian (Seventh Day Adventist, found this post by sorting by local-active) and yeah their grandparents are going on about some rubbish there. "Left-handed people are bad"/"The left hand is the devil's hand" is not Biblical in any way, shape, or form.
the overwhelming majority of the hateful, bigoted shit these people believe is not biblical.
Cause they don't want to be biblical. They don't want to be christian. They want to be hateful assholes with a self gratifying justification... and whats more wonderful self gratifying justification than the power of religion.
Yeah, I've been rather rose-eyed about Catholicism in childhood because of part of my family being in identity that, but not in such things.
Now I know better.
Still, I think the right behavior in Catholic ethics would be for them to accept that as God's judgement?.. I mean, nobody expects Christians to follow Christian ethics, that'd be stupid.
and. Crazy and religious. Your religious beliefs or lack of are up to you, but I think there are 1.35Billion Catholics who do not have anything like this superstition.
This is a weird thing to say given biases and prejudices against left handed people are so well documented. Like, it's not specific to catholicism but in terms of where you might find these silly superstitions in the modern era, it's gonna be a non-zero number that believe this shit.
They've got all the rest of the crazy religion. I don't see much difference between thinking left-handedness is evil and all that trumpeting angel crap. All religion is superstitious dogshit.
My religious parents and grandparents also told me to not use my left hand for anything sacred. But their reasoning was that left hand is used to wipe shit, which makes sense to me. Fair enough on that one XD
Edit: also forgot to mention, they have no problem with left handed people. Fortunately, I have never met anyone who is superstitious like that.
Faith can be a beautiful thing. We all need something to believe in...
However, "religion" is toxic and will tear down everything that can bring you joy in service of at best an unprovable hypothesis, and at worst a delusion.