Wow, he's the guy in the Matt Bors comic:
I had an argument with my neighbor a few months ago. He was dead serious that it's the Democrats' fault for making young men Nazis. His arguments were basically exactly what this comic is saying. If you tell someone that hating minorities is wrong, that just makes them hate even harder.
This is actually a very interesting psychological phenomenon. I'm no psychologist, but stretching what I learned from "how to win friends and influence people" to the extreme, directly opposing someone's viewpoint generally forces them to defend it. By defending it, they rationalize the reasons why they adhere to the idea, and thus end up convincing themselves of their belief.
Your opposition literally only serves to force them to rationalize their belief, and deepen their belief in that thing.
It's fascinating, but stupid. In my experience, the most intelligent people I've ever spoken to will always take opposition seriously, even if with a grain of salt. When struck with an opposing viewpoint, they usually inquire about it, asking the speaker to justify their position so they can understand why they came to this conclusion. The mildly intelligent will then use that justification to tear down the person's belief in that system. The highly intelligent will then ask questions that cause the speaker to question their own beliefs.
But doing nothing more than asking specific and pointed questions about someone's beliefs, I have seen very intelligent and clever people, get others to convince themselves that they're wrong in what they believe.
Long story short, your neighbor isn't wrong, but they're also not exactly correct. The character of a person, IMO, is not in what they believe in, but how they react to adversity. Whether that adversity is political, intellectual, physical, or emotional; how you deal with difficulty is the content of your character.
If making people of color, LGBTQIA+ people, and women, equal, by granting them the same rights and freedoms as everyone else (including bodily autonomy, and the ability to live, vote, and marry who they wish), causes you to start to lean towards fascism, what do you think that says about your character?
If you tell someone that X is wrong, that just makes them X harder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactance_(psychology)
The use of more concrete, low-controlling language, and the restoration of freedom through the inclusion of a choice-emphasizing postscript, may offer the best solution to reducing ambiguity and reactance
There's lot of these chuds on reddit nowadays
You should have told them they shouldn't support preaching abstinence then. As if they think that logic traverses throughout situations as such, it means they are trying to teach preteens to have sex
You're not understanding it vor even trying to take it serious. No wonder voters are running ax from you.
If you constantly tell someone they are at fault for something because they are of a certain race, if you constantly deny them any of their achievements and say is because of privilege, if you constantly chastize them, don't take them serious and ridicule them when they talk about their problems, they aren't going to feel represented by and vote for you.
Voting for Trump isn't a rational decision, it's a emotional one.
You need to Figuren out where you went wrong so the elections became emotional instead oft rational.
Some people are just that daft. They change or adopt an entire worldview simply because of one pet peeve they have.
Sure. People that get bullied fight back, and of there's only one other team, and they're naive, that's where they'll go.
Continuing the bullying doesn't help.
Ya know, I think a lot of people miss the point on this. There are some real biggots that hate trans and yadda yadda, but the majority of joe everyman voter is really saying "im struggling to pay my bills and all you care about is peoples genders, and people who arent even american". Is it true? No. But politics for most people is about feeling and emotion. There is no logic talk that will change that. You have to meet simple people at their level; you cant force them to reach your level and understand all the nuance. They are not capable.
Its imperitive that the left stop falling back on this rhetoric, over the economic issues that the majority of voters care about. And dont say "well this policy and that policy and.." They dont understand any of that. They need to hear that they come first.
“I put a fascist in power because mcdonals tripled the price on a quarter pounder combo”
-Typical 3x trump voter-
The thing is, the left ain’t doing shit for trans people. Kamala never said she’d do shit for our rights.
Conservatives are the ones who make this about trans people. I transitioned more than ten years ago - no one gave a rats ass in 2014.
I just disagree with most of this. We should never stop talking about the social issues. A lot of really outspoken Trump etc folks are out to distort and transform our country in oppressive ways, with no regard to economics. We must fight that.
This is 100% true and people here won't want to hear it.
We lost and we lost BAD. I want to be reasonable and learn WHY we lost.
Just sitting here screaming how everyone is racists and sexist, is juvenile and will cause us to learn NOTHING.
However fucked up a vote for Trump was, it's more damming that people chose HIM over our candidate.
Trump GAINED black and Hispanic voters, so just screaming racism ain't it.
Fairly or unfairly, the Democrats are burdened with the baggage that they care more about identity politics and policing language than actually fixing anything. That's what I've learned.
We've got a big echo chamber here, and most of the shit we discuss here doesn't resonate with the majority of people.
We're more concerned about people saying "unhoused" than actual homelessness and how to solve it.
I don't believe it's your first time tim
Might be his first time voting
I googled it so you don't have to.
The 3 or 4 times I've heard someone use that word here on Lemmy to describe what they don't like, they've been pretty up front that it's about identity politics. IE they hate that trans people want to identify as a gender other than the one they were born with.
So this is making it look like they're just putting "identity" into a bigger word and making it sound fancier.
That definition appears inconsistent with how that word was used in the tweet. What is the leftist version?
Trying to find ideological consistency in this one might be a fool's errand, I'm sorry to say.
There isn't one.
Oop is infamously a moron on the political side of the internet. Whenever leftist content creators want cheap and easy dunks he’s the go to because he’s big enough to be fair game and dumb enough that it takes like no effort without being so big his fans will cause you problems.
Tim Pool got his start being a shill against the Occupy Wall Street protestors in 2010 and 2011, like many of the fascists we all know and hate, such as Stephen Crowder. The idea that he has voted democrat until now is such a joke it is practically an anti-joke.
Aka I got paid by a foreign actor under the table to push my audience further to the right.
I bet dim tool the Russian fool says that every four years
There's been a real shift in Silicon Valley, from Squish Neoliberal International Markets And Raytheon Branded Pride Flags to Based Trad Horny Catholic Gymrat Nationalism.
A lot of it follows the Zuck/Bezos/Musk arc. Tim Poole is getting dragged along on the undertow.
But the Russia shit is mostly because Russia has followed along with American Conservativism while Ukraine has been painted as Neoliberal. So much of this isn't Trump following Putin but Putin following the Kochs and the Mellons and Murdochs.
Guys (et al), please don't make fun of the dim fool's name. It's rude and frankly immature.
Edited: spelling
FYI, it's "et al"
Thanks!
Tim Poole is so inconsistent with his own opinions that he regularly contradicts himself within the same thought. It's incredibly cringe inducing and wildly frustrating to even hate listen to his show. He also does some really blaringly racist cherry picking for topics and constantly pushes the "crime is out of control" narrative with only anecdotal evidence. I utterly hate his show and wish he would actually face some repercussions for his Russian payoff (he won't but I wish he would).
Theres more than one clip (I think by Some More News) of him stopping mid-sentence while reading as he realizes the article completely debunks the point he's trying to make and passing it off like it still made his point.
That's exactly it, and this tweet image was none other than Cody Showdy himself.
Dude has no idea what he's saying and is just throwing labels around to sound smart. Hilariously, he might be outing himself as a racist too.
Fuck him don't bring his bullshit here
But definitely bring mista cody here
I don't like the woke movement either, but I like the "Race war now!" movement far, FAR, FAR LESS...
What's under the hat, Tim?
Take it off, you bald, insecure bitch. I did.
As soon as I lose my hair I'll embrace the shit out of it.
Once I started noticing my hair was thinning, I was like, "fuck it. I'll just shave it all off." I did that for a while, but it appears I'm still able to grow out a decent Jew fro.
Current level: Art Garfunkel.
I was like Albert Einstein x 2 in high school, so I'm curious to see how far this will go.
What's really sad is that I see plenty of this among my community. They get mad at stuff that they're willing to flip over other side just to get back at them or something.
By the numbers, no one changes sides this election. The reason Kamala lost is about 10 million democrats just decided the presidential election isn't worth the voting line.
Watch the recent video of sam seder (Majority Report) going on tim pool's podcast, he shits on tim pool so bad, tim pool is a pathetic, hateful loser.
Can you provide a link? I don't watch a lot of his stuff so I don't know if I should be looking at his video from an hour ago or something older.
Personally I'd rather watch it here instead of supporting Tim's channel directly https://youtu.be/hswyx8bYJHI
But you can also find it on Tim's channel from like a week or so ago.
The supposedly "PC" left is full of fucking obnoxious and annoying brats who don't know anything about morality, anthropology, history, political theory, and basic statistics. They demonize white men en masse incessantly and condescend to any who challenge their half-baked fan-fictions or propose some sort of nuance to their premises. Many of them base their entire personalities on their mental illnesses and grievances.
But I still voted for Harris because, fundamentally, that's better odds of survival for the environment, unions, women's autonomy, protections for whistleblowers, antitrust measures, counters to Russian and CCP aggression, and basically everything else that actually matters to the survival of the species and our federal republic. IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A GRADUATE DEGREE TO FIGURE THAT OUT, TIMMY, YOU BALD CUCK.
Adults don't abandon their principles because of some dumbasses "on their side". And by the way, Harris was a dogshit corporatist establishment candidate that I'd NEVER vote for if given different circumstances.
Man, I remember a video I saw like 7 years ago. Two black college students were reading the riot act to a white kid for having dreadlocks. Like, I get it, but pick your battles. That is not your enemy. The left needs to recognize when they're overreacting because it just gives the right ammo for their nonsense gun. Because the voters the dems are losing, who barely pay attention, will have stronger reactions to trash like this than they have to nuanced defenses of bidens record in the post pandemic economy.
Two black college students were reading the riot act to a white kid for having dreadlocks
Wonder how would they react to this:
The earliest written reference of locks is found in Vedic scriptures, holy Hindu texts dating back to 1500BC, in which Lord Shiva’s hair is referred to as ‘jata’, a sanskrit word meaning “twisted locks of hair”. In almost all visual depictions of Lord Shiva, he is seen with locks of hair flowing past his shoulders or tied above his head in what is called, ‘jatamukuta’ (crown of matted hair). For devotees, Shiva’s hair is of such importance that the sacred river Ganges is believed to flow from his matted locks. The earliest archaeological evidence of locks is found in the mummified remains of Ancient Egyptians as well as from the pre-Colombian Incan civilisation in Peru.
https://www.esquire.com/uk/style/grooming/a34465402/history-of-dreadlocks/
One of the basic tenets of the left is also that you don't need to be accepted/accepting. People who leave the left because someone insulted them didn't get the message in the first place.
you gotta be really comfortable in your world to fuck it up that bad
Like he wasn’t voting libertarian before.
Well, White Supremacy is also the politics of identy, i.e. Identity Politics.
The Racism is the seeing of other human beings as defined above all by the genetics they were born with (i.e. race, gender, sexual orientation), the religious affiliation they got from their parents or the geographical location they were born in and then presuming things about them based on that (which is quite literally Prejudice), it's not in which specific race/gender/sexual-orientation/religion/nationality you see as good/victims or bad/oppressors.
One is not any less Racist when, for example, the race whose people one presumes are "good people" is not White - the Racism is the making presumptions about people based on their race, so the specific races such a prejudiced person thinks are "good" or "bad" are entirelly relevant in determining if the one making presumptions is a Racist or not.
Ultimatelly, all such "identity" groups have good people and bad people, and when they're in a situation with power and no accountability, bad people do bad things independently of their "identity".
This Racism of the modern self-identified Identity Politics practicioners was made painfully obvious by how the Liberals in places like the US and Germany reacted to the Israeli Genocide in Gaza - for years they've been prejudiced about people based on their ethnicity whilst passing that shit as anti-racism because their list of "good ethnicities" and "bad ethnicities" was different from that of the traditional racists, and one of the "good ethnicities" in their worldview was Jews and when it turned out that the self-proclaimed representatives of all Jews - Israel - was led by some trully horrible people who were mass murdering people based on their ethnicity, out came the Liberals in its defense because of the ethnicity it claimed to represent (and often being very overt about how it was all due to ethnicity, such as how Scholz in Germany and Biden in the US very overtly stating their "unwavering support for the Jewish Nation"), and further making their prejudices and racism obvious with the ultra-racist claim that Israel represented the Jewish Religion even when many Jews said it did not, and the even more extreme racist accusations of anti-semitism against those demonstrating against the Israeli Genocide (imagine how extremelly racist you have to be to claim that being against Genocide is being against the Jewish Religion, which logically is the same as saying Genocide is a Jewish thing). These self-proclaimed anti-racists didn't drop their support for Israel as anybody driven by principles would have done based on their actions, they doubled down on it and did it very overtly based solely on the ethnicity that country claims to represent, exactly like all the other Racists act.
This shit is no less Racists than supporting the government of Appartheid South Africa because of them being though of as White.
Anyways, the fairest and real Leftie take on unfairness and suffering is to correct the unfairness and suffering and go at it by descending order of intensity (i.e. start by going after the biggest ones), quite independently of the genetics the victims and perpetrators were born with or the "reasons" why some assholes - the tradition racists - go around inflicting pain on others: the action is that is wrong and must be punished and the hurt and harm to the victimed corrected and grabing the "logic" of the aggressor and twisting it around keeps the agressor's way of thinking alive and hence the unfairness of treatment, and just moves the unfairness around rather than stop it.
There was a lot to unpack in what you said. A shit ton of you being upset over the situation in Israel and a lot of you trying to shift the blame.
I find it strange you attack the only people who would agree with you stances. Everyone I know who claims to be liberal is bewildered at what Israel has done. The conservatives I know approve of Isreal's right to defend themselves at any cost.
Also that last bit about the oppressed becoming the oppressor is interesting especially when you see what happened in South Africa and Israel. The answer is of course to recognize and stop the cycle but it does often feel like a pendulum.
True, good point on Israel.
Liberal politicians are the ones who are "Relaxed about Genocidal ethno-Fascism", whilst it makes sense that genuine Liberals (so, Liberal out of principle, not merely political followers), would also be against what's going on in Israel if only because killing people is the ultimate reduction of their freedom.
I should have been more clear about meaning Liberal Politicians when I used the word "Liberal".
I don't actually think Identity Politics is Liberal, I think it's something build on top of Liberalism by politicians, in the best cases out of convenience - it's far easier to address certain things by reducing people to identity groups and then fighting for entire groups and/or passing measures that affect all of a group equally and it actually works up to a point - and in the worst cases just as pure hypocrisy and even greed - it makes for simple slogans that politically work well and are easy to sell, brings them votes and if a politician happens to be a member of an identity that person can advance their own personal upsides by claiming measures that benefit them are for the identity group (this by the way, is also how the Far-Right tends to use identity politics, only they use different identities).
That said you're at the very least misreading my words on the whole "oppressed becoming the oppressor" - what I wrote is that all groups contain people who will do bad things when they have the power and no accountability. At no point did I claimed they were oppressed, oppressors or one of them who had become the other, much less part of "THE oppressed" or "THE oppressor".
Sure, sometimes the tables turn and people who are themselves oppressed and members of a group containing mainly oppressed get power and then become themselves oppressors, but that's not related to any identity and it's not even needed that the whole group stops being oppressed, just that individual: it's simply that assholes who are powerless usually risk a lot by acting as assholes, whilst people in positions of power can often act as assholes if they so wish and get away with it, so assholes will do it.
Further, there is no need for those people to be in a grand category called "THE oppressed" or "THE oppressors" - often assholes who behave meekly when faced with somebody with more power will behave as assholes towards those with less power: such double-face is a pretty common dynamic in schoolyard bullies or even company bullies (look to middle and lower level management to find those). Such people are both oppressed and oppressors - in other words, even at this level the trying to tag people as something isn't helpful: both the oppression done to that person in the middle and the oppression that person themself does are wrong and should be stopped, and an "oppressor" tag here just muddles a situation were there are two wrong actions going on and the victim of one happens to be the perpetrator of the other.
Always has been a moron.
He's an uneducated, far right, internet "celeb" Essentially he's s nobody with zero education and uses big words to sound smart for his under 20 y/o audience
He's mediocre and honestly basic af. Get new material little Timmy, ya boring 😴
I hope he walks into a speeding bus.
The world needs more buses and trains.
Go back to your abandoned skatepark, Toolie.
Russia's government pays better to spread FUD and bigoted propaganda than maintaining principled values like truth, liberty, or justice. The catalyst he's obviously lying about is actually a big fat bootlicker demagogue payday.
Fuck you, face!
Nose flies off in an arc.
Pool is the name given to a series of cue sports played on a billiard table.
He’s single because he never takes that beanie off.
Dude has some serious self esteem issues. I’ve seen fat chicks with better rizz than him.
What happened was the young far left alienated every ally by calling them Nazis. Nobody was left enough for anyone this election, and I have never seen so much intolerance and straight up racism coming from the far left like I did this election. If you hated Joe Biden 8 years ago you'd be called a right winger, if you don't hate him now you're a Nazi apparently
(before getting people triggered, I don't agree with the guy and did vote for Harris. Can't wait until the maga cult dies off.)
I mean, there are a small group of people on the left being racist/sexist in the open making every part of "white cis straight male" as pejorative as possible. Calling to even exterminate them on twitter. You know, the kind of people that don't want to end oppression but instead wants to switch roles. They want revenge, not peace. Of course foreign bots too, to sow discord. Right picks up that and amplifies it to seem the entire left thinks and acts like that. Worse yet, this small group tends to go and yell at regular, common sense people who agree on equality instead of going to yell at true racists/misogynists/homophobes because that'd be dangerous. A regular person walks in eggshells because saying something isn't sanctioned by these people can get you fired, since the companies don't want the PR disaster. Meanwhile, people in the middle of the country losing their jobs due to factories closing or not making enough to survive seeing people discussing bathrooms for minorities (it is important but let's not forget priorities). It's easy to see how that would push people to the other side, because frankly you don't have options. Of course Trump is another league, extremist, criminal (basically mocking criminal justice by dodging everything while committing crimes in the open), likely compromised by foreign countries, and endorsing the worst in the right. But hey, no choices. I'd love to see maga/republicans split in two parties and democrats and progressists in another 2. Give people more fine grained choices.
small group of people on the left being racist/sexist in the open making every part of "white cis straight male" as pejorative as possible
One giant difference between the right and left here is that the right isn't a small group of racists/sexists. They ALL are. In no way is someone pushing them towards that ideology, they've already chosen it and are just making excuses.
Voting republican makes you racist/sexist? Then voting democrat makes you a genocide lover? Or supporting getting oral sex from employees? Nobody ever votes for one side because it's perceived the less bad option? I'd recommend going out of your bubble and talk to other people, you'll find a lot of them are nice on both sides and you disagree in way less ways than the propaganda wants you to believe.
