How do I avoid enshitification of my keyboard and mouse
How do I avoid enshitification of my keyboard and mouse
I have been using Logitech peripherals for years. Logitech gear always just worked.
Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased. WTF?
Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.
This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.
What are the good options?
Also, if anybody sees how these changes could be benign, please let me know.
EDIT:
By popular demand:
The keyboard I bought that started this journey: MX Keys S
The key feature that first demanded cloud access: Swithing between computers, now it is requires it to adjust the receivers. I have both a Bolt and a Unifying receiver.
Mouse (actually a trackball) that now is requesting that I use a Chrome Browser to adjust it: M570
Software:
The Logi SetPoint Settings I open from Windows now requires you to log into your Logitech account to make changes to your Unifying or 2.4 ghz usb receiver. This link takes you to a screen that says Logi Web Connect. It does not work unless you use the latest version of Chrome, Edge, & Opera, but reccomends Chrome for the best experience.
Logitech + used to require this to enable options, but I don’t see it on my Windows computer anymore. It is still on my Mac, but upon opening it to confirm for this message, it seems to be announcing that it is now able to incorporate AI into everything I type. (ugggh)
The way forward is to stop looking at those as "features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased" and consider them as "unlockables" where you have to pay again by handing over your personal info. Then stop buying their stuff, because it's absurd to have to pay twice.
I prefer my keyboards and mice as dumb as possible. Preferably with cables, so I never have to worry about charging them.
stop looking at those as "features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased"
Seriously.
Maybe I'm an old timer but my idea of extra features on a mouse or keyboard are simply more inputs: more mouse buttons or wheels, more keys on a keyboard (like media keys). At most that just requires additional hardware, but nothing my OS can't handle on its own.
What are some good dumb brands yall could recommend for keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals?
I’ve been using a Dell keyboard I got at goodwill for $4. It’s great.
I love Zowie mice because their shapes are incredible and they're built like tanks. One of mine is 15 years old and I still use it for work.
Gamestop seems to be releasing competitive options right now.
I picked up a wireless Cooler Master mouse on impulse for $20 from a bargain bin and it's .. Actually okay. The software doesn't even need to stay running. You open the util, change the settings, close it, and that's it. Downside is the cable.. While it is technically USBC, they've done that thing where the port is recessed in a specifically shaped divot that only their cable will fit.
Logitech.
G305 for a “standard” mouse
MX Vertical for a vertical mouse
Both are wireless with a dedicated dongle and run off AA batteries. I hope that's acceptable.G332 or G432 for a headset with decent sound and mic (that even works well over hearing aides)
Keyboard? I dunno, I went with a Das Keyboard Ultimate 4, I love my clickity clacky but it's not a cheap recommendation
They've all served me well for 6 or more years with the exception of the MX Vertical (2 years so far) and are all still spotless. None show any sign of wear or tear and do their job well.
EDIT I see OP had bad experiences specifically with this brand. I'm sorry to see that, disregard my opinions, OP.
The cherry stream has all the keys I need, presses feel good, and it just works.
I hate this so much.
My hp printer doesn't do shit, if I'm not online and logged in to my hp account. For what if not for collecting datathey have no business collecting.No advice, just shared frustration.
Get a Brother printer, my brother.
Be careful of printers with chipped toner though. Older models still rock.
That's the plan. Unfortunately I wasn't in a situation to say no or be picky when my dad offered to buy me a new printer.
How valuable are these data ? I mean, dozens of companies already collect and sale them... Honnest question.
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but switch to Linux and use Piper, a free & open source replacement for the Logitech software, that was created because they don't offer an official version for Linux
Cool!!!!
I use a Logitech mouse and do not have the problems you are talking about.
Yeah, I'd like to know the specifics, too. My Logi mouse still uses the same application (although they did update terms recently) and while they've added some AI shovelware to it the mouse stil remembers its shortcuts with that thing off and I haven't noticed any changes to how the application is put together.
It's entirely possible the application is a Chromium-based browser thing, but in any case it still doesn't require a login (although it does support one) and it will run offline.
Don't get me wrong, Logi's approach to this, along with a lot of other hardware manufacturers, sucks really bad. I do appreciate Microsoft, of all people, recently starting to standardize RGB controls, at least. It's still wonky and interacts weirdly with some third party software, but it's a start. I don't need twenty different apps to keep glowy lights and saved shortcuts going.
Me either. I have a G502 and I have the G Hub app to control the features(DPI, button assignments, RGB), but I've never needed an account to use it.
I use my 602 (the wireless one) on linux with an open-source mouse app called Piper. Does everything GHub can do - at least as far as my needs go.
It may be possible it has features you don't know about that are only enabled with the software. I have a Logitech mouse but only download the software because there was a macro fix for a broken clicker.
Buy open hardware with open source firmware.
I'm typing this from a Corne-ish Zen and you can see my firmware (ZMK) with my keymap at https://github.com/Utopiah/zmk-config-zen-2/blob/main/config/corneish_zen.keymap#L27
Nobody can touch this but me. No update can break it. Yet, it's more feature rich than most keyboards.
There are equivalents for most peripherals. It's not cheap, usually even MORE expensive than already pricey ones like Logitech (I have an MX Vertical, still) but IMHO it's worth it. It's good right now, pragmatically speaking, but also morally speaking.
I advise against swimming upstream, namely NOT buying hardware that have such enshitification practices because if they don't do it today, they might tomorrow when there is more pressure from shareholders. Also by buying alternatives you are economically supporting people whom you believe are providing better solutions for yourself and others.
PS: a gateway to such projects is https://crowdsupply.com which is a kind of KickStarter. I bought a dozen things there, all delivered and working.
Can you please provide the link to your keyboard?
Happy to, it is a Corne-ish Zen (6 columns (3x6) / Rose Gold) that I bought as a group buy from https://splitkb.com , ordered in May 2022 and received in January 2023. I've been using it daily, at home and on the move, since.
It's not cheap but if you work hours a day on a computer, if you have pain in the hands or wrist as I did, finding the "right" keyboard for you, both ergonomically speaking and software wise, is worth every penny IMHO.
They don't have it anymore it seems but they have a lot of quality alternatives I'm sure.
It looks like https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen?variant=42051226796196
Happy Cakeday! 🍰🎂
I'd hope that a $300 keyboard that was designed to be customized would.
What I meant to say is that a lot of commercial keyboards are sold with some "customizable" they are. And it's partly true, you have tool allowing to make some shortcut on popular OSes. It might be sufficient for some people ... but it is NOT the same as putting your own firmware in it.
I'm not advocating for a $300 keyboard over a $30 one, "just" for genuine customization. Some that doesn't have arbitrary limitations from the manufacturer and doesn't have support for only some OSes which in turns (well Windows and MacOS not to name them) also promote a consumer only with limited control options, as OP is saying about enshitification.
It's unfortunate, really, but there's only 1 good answer: vote with your wallet.
Research before buying and be thorough. There are companies that don't do this yet and you could build your own peripherals, there's some nice DIY kits out there.
Just don't buy this crap. IMO the only way this'll change is if it hurts them where they feel it.
What you want is to go along with the business line of logitechs products and scrap the rest. There is an offline version of Logi Options+ "for air gapped machines" available. https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-hk/articles/10991109278871-Logitech-Options-Offline-Installer You may use it in a virtual machine aswell.
Disclaimer: I'm a keyboard snob. I can't think of a single good keyboard that even has software.
I actually use Logitech for all my mice and trackballs, but I also haven't installed Logitech's junky software in a long time. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing.
Fellow keyboard snob here. Gotta say I love keyboard that use VIA/vial for software, It's open source and can run in a browser without installation.
Wooting keyboards also have the wooting configuration software that is also ran in a browser and is very good.
Just hope one day they all get supported on firefox.
I suppose technically any keyboard with a programmable controller could be considered to have software even if you don't need to run, but I was thinking more along the lines of Logitech or Razer always memory resident garbage.
Dygma is second to nobody and has software.
While that keyboard isn't for me, I'll admit that look good and does in fact have software. Good counter point. Also, that software appears to just for reconfiguration of the layout and probably macros so I bet it doesn't need to be run all the time, or even at all if you like the standard layout. That is how software for hardware should be done.
Can you help me solve keyboard chattering then please? I've got some from Massdrop from a few years back that are pretty unusable without program to dechatter/debounce them.
If you have chattering, that is sadly a problem with the specific switch itself and the software has just been ignoring the issue. I don't suppose the keyboard you're using is hotswappable? If it is, just pull and replace those switches. If not, you either need to desolder the bad switches and resolder in replacements or stick with that software. I have had some consistently bad chattering issues with Gateron switches to the point that I completely avoid them as a manufacturer. So if you coincidentally are using switches from them and plan to replace them, I'd look for a different brand of switch.
What’s the mouse and keyboard? So I can stay away
I added details to the OP
Just build your own keyboard. That's what I did (and it turned out fantastic) 🤷
Mice are much easier to deal with since there's 500 million of them to choose from. Just pick a generic, no-name brand that doesn't need drivers and you're all set.
Aside: Building a keyboard isn't rocket science. It's just a bit tedious (buy a kit). Unless you invent your own 3D printable keyboard switch and stabilizers from scratch then design an analog circuit board to work with them (also from scratch). Then it's a bit more like rocket science 🤣
Handwired keyboards with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino are achievable: https://github.com/joe-scotto/scottokeebs
I've made 2 keyboards with kits (see my post history) and it was good fun and an easy way to get a QMK compatible custom board. Would recommend.
Just build your own keyboard.
Just build one, huh? It's super simple and easy. Doesn't require special tools or anything. No special skills. Surely it's cheap too. 🙄
Not hating on building your own keyboard at all, but it's definitely not so simple as to suggest it like "just build one" lol.
I'd like to find a small bluetooth keyboard with mechanical switches that I could use with both my.phone and my 2009 MBP running MX. I need stowable and chargeable with C.
I have time, where would I find a kit for something like that?
At this point the suggestions are getting pretty out there. So far I’ve heard in this thread that I should switch to Linux, download this and that code from GitHub, build my own keyboard and design a circuit board for it.
I think I’ll just take the adware.
Building your own keyboard is supposed to be fun. You do some research to figure out what you want. Maybe order some sample switches to try out, pick out a keycap set you like, and eventually settle on a kit.
When you order your kit it'll include a case, a top plate, and a circuit board. If you get one with hot swap sockets you will not have to solder anything. You can literally just press the switches in.
Then when you're done you screw everything together, put your keycaps on, and you have a working keyboard. Sometimes you have to flash the firmware as a final step but that's not rocket science. You do not have to know how to program.
Personally I would just avoid Logitech. I have noticed their stuff mysteriously breaks every 2-3 years and I have to replace it. It's like planned obsolescence with them.
It can be frustrating finding a good alternative brand. I'm always on the hunt for one. I've had a Das Keyboard for a long time now, and it's fantastic. My wireless mouse is a Tecknet. It's not great but it's pretty good. If there's a Best Buy close to you it may be worth your time to go there and test drive some peripherals.
I've had much the opposite experience, in my case coming from using a variety of Razer peripherals and having them all die early deaths, and then Razer themselves to be completely useless in regards to support even well within their warranty period. I gave up and switched to basically all Logitech stuff, which has been flawless for me for many many years.
If everything from all major brands is going to require Yet Another Fucking Account (thus far Logitech does not appear to, or at least not the stuff from them I have) I will just be forced to switch to buying generic brandless Chinese garbage and deal with replacing it regularly. Generic Chinese crap never has an app or an account requirement.
I don't think I've ever had any Razer stuff. I've had terrible luck with Logitech, but if you've had good luck with it, I can understand why you might want to stay with it. AFAIK Logitech periphs should "just work" with a PC, Mac Linux, or other GNU-Linux box. But yeah...wouldn't surprise me if they try to force the cloud issue and/or want a subscription in the future.
My G305 mouse, G322 headset and G432 headset have all served me well for far more than 2 years.
My G503 mouse works, but some features that used to be part of the mouse are now walled behind a Windows app. The mouse mouses just fine, though.
EDIT I see OP had bad experiences with this brand specifically. Disregard my opinions, I'm sorry I missed that part.
Recently I had to replace my mouse, bought a G502. The mouse itself is a solid quality mouse. But then, three months in, the USB cord split the covering plastic and exposed the wires, right at the connector. I chose it wired specifically to use with a desktop computer that doesn't move anywhere. It was meant to be a stationary mouse, I plugged it once, then never unplugged it again. Then one day while dusting the case I noticed the damage. Nobody touches this computer but me. The only explanation is that it came faulty from the factory and just a little heat from the case made the plastic open. I honestly didn't want to bother with having it replaced, just sealed it with shrink wrap and moved on. But I won't ever be buying another Logitech product.
"The company to which I've always given my money because I trusted them to make good products has started taking advantage of my trust and is producing shitty products. How do I avoid this?"
Stop buying their products the moment they stop making good ones.
I feel your frustration, but I think you already knew the answer. Any workaround or jailbreak or open source firmware update would just be avoiding the problem, not fixing it. Stop buying Logitech products.
I procure for my company I am not touching Logitech anymore.
Just don't use the software lol. If it requires software to function, return it.
garbage advice lol
the software has useful features, like reconfiguring buttons on your mouse. however lately all of them got to be enshittified with a login requirement.
the real solution is to not buy their shit, or to keep buying used hardware for which decent software configurator is still available
I think the mice and keyboard requiring "Chrome" is actually due to WebHID. WebHID is only supported in Chromium browsers. Now here's the fun part, this thread has VIA mentioned a couple times and even though VIA/QMK/ZMK are FOSS, the usevia.app website requires a, you guessed it, WebHID capable browser.
That said, don't use Logitech keyboards. Sell it to a sucker on local and buy any of the above compatible keyboards instead. Drop CSTM, Luminkey, Keychron, Akko, QK NEO, CK Bakaneko, there's probably couple more that are affordable and quality. Just don't fall for GMMK, Ducky and other pseudo-gaming crap. Also visit [email protected] and ask questions.
Not sure about your trackball problem.
If it runs QMK I would port to vial over via any day of the week, cannot stand via. Granted I need to run the app when I want to adjust the key map (and only then), but it removes the need for WebHID or any similar problems. I have been able to replace my custom mapping and macros then compiling my own custom QMK firmware and uploading it to the keyboard workflow with live editing of the map and macros.
Just here to back you up on this. All solid advice.
Woah, can you elaborate on this please? I haven't heard of this, and we use a lot of these devices at work. Which devices are affected? What's the software/chrome thing?
I first noticed the requirement to make adjustments via the cloud when I bough new keyboards that could easily switch between different computers. They use the new BOLT rather than he old Unifying Receiver. I wrote it off as a lazy way to do that feature, but OK. It was not the main reason that I purchased the keyboards, but it was one of the reasons, but I can live without it.
I was using the keyboards without the account.
Then it got too cumbersome and I established the account.
Today, I tried to adjust the settings of one of my mice which still uses the unifying receiver. It took me to the account somehow. But it would not let me log into the account and make the changes because I am not using the latest version of Chrome (I was using Firefox). (Note it did not say a Chromium browser, but rather the Google owned product).
I don’t see how any of this requires communication with a cloud server.
It's probably going to a web interface for RGB and maybe mouse sensitivity instead of special software.
Not sure why it would require Chrome to do so, but that doesn't mean it's constantly talking to Chrome when you use it either.
It doesn't seem like we're getting all the information
Simple answer is stop buying products that require OEM software to function or an app.
Keyboards with QMK/VIA support are open and configurable on nearly any OS and for nearly any OS.
Some mice are even QMK/VIA enabled.
Mice are harder so checking for openrgb support is a good idea as well as mice that can be configured and operated without software.
Are there any good resources for qmk/via mice? Mostly can only find a few that feel like they are, at best, proof of concepts and more likely just outright predatory scams to cash in on people who want to spend money.
Independent of Logitech and other HID makers turning to shit, I've been eying some open source / DIY mice (like the Ploopy) for a while. Seems like a fun project that also helps me keep control of my own systems. And it'd give me something to tinker with.
This looks very cool!
Ploopy and maybe a Corne keyboard are on my TODO list this winter
This was posted on Lemmy a month or so back so i'm betting these are baby steps in that direction.
Sounds about right. If he did forego the subscription revenue, that does not mean he won’t try to monitize our useage data.
Jawbone headsets used to be like that. When they were still in business. They made good headsets, but introduced this feature as well to change certain settings.
Apparently that wasn't taught in business schools.
Find a mouse and keyboard you like and buy 5-10 of them. Put them in heavy duty ziploc bags with a few dessicant packets and store them in your freezer.
Use Keychron
You could get keychron keyboard or something similar that supports open source key mapping/lighting (or just leave it as is when you get it)
Got a Keychron K8 Pro wireless for work very recently. I was considering the MX Keys S and went to the store try out both of them. I just want to second Keychron as being a viable option instead of Logitech (but nothing will make me switch from MX Anywhere 3S).
Maybe even akko?
I've switched to the cheapest generic mice purchased online that have no extra features and function like a state of the art wireless mouse did 15 years ago.
I still don't have a smart TV, I just buy the largest flat screen monitors I can find.
any smart device outside of a smartphone is so much more frustration than it's worth.
When did you buy the M570? I bought mine 6 years ago and it doesn't require software, if yours is recent then that's a new thing
It just changed. It always had the app to program the buttons, but now if you need to change the receiver, it goes to the cloud.
Keyboard wise? At this point, prices have dropped enough that there is no real reason to go to one of the major manufacturers for anything that isn't disposable. And basically "all" of the smaller batch mechanical keyboards are dependent on QMK or VIA to some degree which means you can customize them on any machine that can run chrome.
For the logitech price point/build quality? Unless you know why you don't want one, you can't go wrong with a Keychron (https://www.keychron.com/). The price and build quality isn't "the best" but it is very much on par with the logitechs and razers of the world and they are perfect for someone who just wants "a keyboard that works" or someone who wants to learn what they ACTUALLY want out of a keyboard.
Mouse wise? There are an increasing number of "third parties" but... they basically all suck unless you are going to go crazy and mod them. And while I think the firmware matters less in these cases, there are an increasing number of qmk/via mice but... they mostly feel "cheap" or like they are just proving the viability. I have a friend with a ploopy but even he doesn't really recommend it. So... you are still more or less suck with logitech and razer and the like for that. But hopefully as those companies lock their hardware down more it will lead to something in between "here is a cheap no name ergonomic mouse" and "here is a five hundred dollar mouse".
The Keychron K2 and K6 both look solid. Starting at $70 for a Bluetooth/wired mechanical keyboard, RGB backlighting, extra keycaps for Macs / OS toggles… there’s even a hot swappable variant for $10 more (or heck, on sale for $70), option for an aluminum frame… shame they don’t run on QMK.
Oh - turns out they have several keyboards that do run QMK/VIA, like the K6 Pro.
If I used staggered keyboards for anything other than gaming, or if I didn’t already have a wireless gaming keyboard, I’d be considering one.
Keychron's relationship with QMK is a touch fraught. If they claim a wireless board supports QMK, it only truly supports it in wired mode. In wireless mode, they're either using a secondary MCU or an off-license fork of QMK, as the mainline doesn't support wireless for licensing reasons.
Out of curiosity, what is your non-gaming keyboard? Lot's of fun stuff over at [email protected]
Yeah. Keychrons are kind of a clusterfuck because they release like five limited runs every month. But... basically all of those are the same feature sets but might have slightly different internals based on whatever they bought in bulk the previous month. It DOES make figuring out what to buy kind of annoying but... logitech and razer have been doing that for years anyway.
to add to the subject of gaming, i personally do not recommend using a keychron for gaming. the latency, at least the one i'm on (keychron C1) is quite a noticeable downgrade from the logitech keyboard i switched from, though at least it feels and sounds miles better than the logitech.
as a disclaimer, i am very sensitive to that latency since i'm a modern tetris player. it's also way less noticeable in shooters and other 3D action games, so i guess for most people it's fine?
for a gaming keyboard from a non-shitty company, you can't get much better than a wooting.
I'm going to assume you need to use Chrome to set up the dongle because Firefox still doesn't support Bluetooth web APIs.
Logitech G devices with the Lightspeed dongle don't require setup (they're all uniquely paired from the factory) and will work without the G Hub software. The software itself, if you do want it, works offline without an account.
This is assuming you don't want to move away from Logitech entirely of course.
I know this might not be the most convenient solution, but learning to resolder mouse switches means you can just replace the faulty components (and maybe the sliders too) and just keep using the hardware that works for you. As long as you don't have a mouse with that awful rubber that de-vulcanizes after about 3 years, and don't mind the visual wear from your hand on the shell over time, you'll easily 10x the life of most products manufactured with planned obsolescence. Logitech almost always cheaps out on the switches for their gaming mice, unfortunately. After replacing the switches on my g pro wireless when they started double-clicking after 2 years (almost exactly), it's been smooth sailing ever since.
ifixit almost always has comprehensive teardown and rebuild instructions for popular peripherals. Bonus points is that whenever you take apart something to do a repair, you can clean out all the hard to reach places that collect random dust and debris. Can be kind of gross but is also pretty satisfying. Additional bonus points for being more sustainable with your consumer habits and minimizing e-waste in landfills!
If you've got a mechanical keyboard, you can do the same but it's generally a lot more tedious since most have the switches soldered on, and LEDs double the amount of joints you have to deal with. I recently did just the WASD and a few other high-traffic keys on my board after one one of them failed, and it was a several hour process
I've done a lot of de-enshitification in my digital life over the past year, most recently by de-google my phone. I'm going to be honest: It's not easy, nor convenient, and a lot of the time not cheap. You really have to go out of your way to get what you want, sacrificing at least something a long the way (features, usability, etc). It takes quite a bit of desire and determination to move away from the modern garbage that these companies shove your way, and I'm honestly not sure if it's worth it for the average person because of the massive amount of effort that it takes.
All of the above is to say that if you really want to avoid enshitification you're gonna have to make changes, such as buying a different set of peripherals for your pc, and that it's not gonna be easy. The real question is: is all of that work worth it for you?
For me it 100% has been.
Currently still using the G502 Hero, and all it's customization is on-board, edited using a portable .exe. I'm using some Rosewill mechanical keyboard which I believe has all its customization tied to inputs while holding the FN key.
Fuck, I hate always-online apps just to use the God damn peripherials I've paid for. I go far out of my way to avoid them.
Any chance you've got a non-sketchy link to where that portable exe can be found? My g600s keybindings borked themselves at some point when I gave Linux a shot, and Logitechs own downloads are a pain to find anything relevant to "older" hardware
Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased.
What are you talking about? Which keyboard, which mouse, which features, and which “internet accounts” are they requiring?
Also, Logitech still distributes the older software and it still works for the mice that it used to work with. My MX Vertical works with Logitech Options or the new Logi Options+ software, for example.
Did you try using that software with your new peripherals?
You can find the list by device at https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024361233--Software assuming this isn’t from their gaming line or something. In that case, go here instead: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/categories/360001764393-Gaming
Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.
I highly doubt that the mouse and keyboard cannot be used without Chrome.
Due to security concerns, Firefox did not implement the WebSerial API that’s most likely used to configure your mouse locally. Chrome did. It’s therefore completely reasonable that you would not be able to configure your mouse from Firefox.
That API is also supported by Edge and probably by most Chromium-based browsers, like Brave, the “Ungoogled Chromium,” etc.. If you have one installed and it doesn’t work, you can probably change your user agent to trick it into thinking you're running Chrome as a workaround. Most likely they only tested with Chrome and therefore only say they support Chrome, but don’t actually use any Chrome-exclusive functionality.
This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.
That’s a bit of a leap.
If you use Firefox for browsing and only use this Chrome to run this tool to configure your keyboard and mouse, then even with cross-site cookies and so on unblocked, none of that will be visible from the other browser. So this makes you more isolated, not less. Having it in a browser app instead of a desktop app gives you more protection, not less.
If a company can provide a browser app to do everything a desktop app could, then they can speed up development without having to use something like Electron to distribute their app. And there’s even less friction than Electron because their don’t have to check for updates / require users to install the latest version manually, because they can just always serve the most recent one from the site. As a user, you can probably install the tool locally if you want (it’s likely a PWA) but you don’t have to, meaning you get less software installed on (or worse, constantly running in the background) on your machine.
I added details to the OP
Thanks for the comment. I see no legitimate reason that I am shelled out of a program running on my computer to an interface where I have to log into a cloud service to adjust ANYTHING on my mouse or keyboard.
I use hyperx alloy core keyboard as I don't actually need programmable keys or an LCD. RGB and media keys are as far as I go.
I can't remember how to do it offhand, but you should be able to save the settings to the hardware itself, then disable Logitech from opening. I changed settings not too long ago (2ish months) and this worked.
There is a way to save a configuration to your mouse and then you can just disable/uninstall the bloatware
Good to know. That seems pretty straightforward.
It's very simple, and works very well. When I got a new PC it took 7 months for me to realize I didn't have the software, and as usual was because I wanted to change a mouse button.
Some of the older apps will still work if you can track them down. Most of the features will work with no Logitech software at all (and something like AHK can help). The custom drivers themselves will probably work without the app or at least without logging in. My old M560 still uses SetPoint in Windows, and it seems less oppressive than the newer LogiOptions or whatever.
Finally, join us! There's a whole world of fully programmable open-source-firmware custom keyboards, and mice are coming along, too, especially trackballs.
Build your own or buy from other mech keeb enthusiasts. Theres also probably some 60-80 dollar ones that use QMK, and using QMK is a pretty good sign the keyboard is open to you and you own it. Mice, idk I definitely have an enshittified mouse (proprietary app to setup). It's a gravistar. 130 for a magnesium mouse was too good to pass up.
Bought a new keyboard a few weeks ago. Had function keys set to alternative hot keys. Only way Logitech offered to change that was to download their "options+" software. Don't remember for sure, but the final download size was MASSIVE. The software included AI tools, but had bare minimal settings options. It added support for additional gestures on the keyboard's track pad, but made the track pad jittery. Made the fn key switch, then uninstalled the software. The setting change didn't stick once the utility was gone.
Returned the keyboard. So excited for the day when my shoelaces and sunglasses require an Internet connection.
dont buy crappy products. Some companies are simply too malicious and should be avoided. Convince others to do the same and tell others and it might even have some impact.
Could you remap the keys with AHK?
I assume you're talking about the Unifying feature.
I've got no direct experience, but there are a few people who say that despite Firefox not being listed as supported, it works fine.
https://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=14961275
As for the spying, I can see how that could be a concern, but I don't think it's too likely.
For convenience, I'm guessing they're using a web interface to the settings in the same way that your router does. They've made a Chrome plugin, so that's probably the route they want you to take because they know it works.
Logitech is a global brand, an they'd get into a lot of trouble in a lot of countries if they were gathering keypress data etc.
The CEO already talked about, and then walked back after backlash, a subscription mouse. Sounds like they're going forward without saying anything this time.
@[email protected] time to drop all Logitech gear and never buy from them again.
Thanks for the comment
For convenience, I'm guessing they're using a web interface to the settings in the same way that your router does. They've made a Chrome plugin, so that's probably the route they want you to take because they know it works.
Thanks based on your comment I reloaded and checked it. It is pointing to logiwebconnect.com. That does not appear to be a web front end. I do not see a way around the browser not supported page to try it on Firefox.
Haven't looked at their newer stuff so it's possible they are enshittifying too, but Das Keyboard has been a reliable low-frills brand for me for years (get one with blank keys if you really want to hone your touch typing skills!)
Don't have any suggestions on mice. I'm using a Razer
I've fallen into this trap too a year ago or so. try if the Logitech Onboard Memory Manager is useful for any of your devices, it's a totally offline program. you can get it from the page below, but if it's been taken down check the archive.org, I think I have made an archive of the exe too
https://support.logi.com/hc/de/articles/6449584392215-Onboard-Memory-Manager
Thanks!
I recently bought a nice MX series Logitech KB and a mouse that will pair with 3 devices, also Logitech. After seeing how terrible the software is, failing so hard as to temporarily disable the keyboard, repeatedly, I returned both.
My best advice is to either try to use them entirely without the software and all its customizations or sell your hardware, buying something better.
I'm sorry friend.
I still have a small fleet of M570 trackballs in service, I keep having to swap out the switches but what else is my soldering iron doing, amirite? My keyboard is from Cooler Master, a Masterkeys Pro M White LEDs, and they never made bloatware for it. The lights are configurable from the keyboard itself. That's the kind of thing I look for.
Custom mechanical keyboard, and older Logitech mice.
I use the 8BitDuo NES keyboard. It's great, albeit not for everyone.
Logitech devices do not need such drivers under Linux...
Short fix is to dump Logitech, long term fix is to install Linux and still dump logitech
Really?
My Logitech mice won't work, at all under Linux unless I go find a third party software to make them work.
While under Windows they just work, even without the Logitech config software.
I bought a logitech G502 mouse on a whim because my Razer Naga died (still pissed about it) and I needed a replacement. I hate it. I hate the software you have to use to get the fucking buttons to work, and I wish another company made a mouse like the Razer Naga. (I'm not buying another fucking razer product if I can help it, wasn't the first razer product to just stop working on me)
I wish Logitech didn't discontinue the g600 (12 side button MMO mouse), I've got like 4 of them but they're getting kinda janky and a little too software dependant.
That would be better than what I've got, but I'm not a fan of the MMO style 9/12 button panels.
Idk if it's an ADHD thing or what, but I tend to accidentally press the buttons if I don't have a place to rest my thumb. Same reason I can't use controllers with paddle style back buttons.
The specific attachment I liked on the Razer Naga was the one that had six buttons in two rows on the top, and a pad at the bottom for resting your thumb. It was perfect.
Edit: See the outermost panel. I've yet to find another mouse with one just like that. Even better was that they were automatically mapped to Numpad keys, which was great since my keyboard doesn't have them, but every application recognizes them.
I have boycotted Logitech since they started pushing Logitech Download Assistant through Windows Update, as soon as you plug a Logitech device into your Windows computer you get the program Logitech Downlod Assitant that you can't uninstall or easily stop running.
So I got myself a Xtrfy M4 and later the Xtrfy M4 Wireless, they require zero program to configure it, it's brilliant!
Last week I got myself a Pulsar Xlite V3, it needs a program to configure it, but it is manually installed, require no internet connection and saves the config to the mouse.
As for keyboards, I am a huge fan of Ducky keyboards, they just work for me.
For my audio, I use a Röde Videomic Go II, no software needed, but Röde central is used to configure it, it acts as a soundcard that I connect my Philips X2HR Fidelio headphones to.
It works brilliantly!