Half-Life 2 introduced a sidekick who's mixed race, has dyed hair, and punches cops in her first scene. And yet I've heard no one call that game woke.
There was some around HL: Alyx when it came out ("replacing a man with a femoid character!!!") but I don't think VR is popular enough with the kinds of people that really carry these movements.
As to HL2, well, for one that game I'm sad to admit is pretty old now. It predates gamergate by a full 10 years, which really kicked off our current era of astroturfed antiwokeness. And despite incredible influence and critical acclaim has never actually been very popular.
Also they see a sidekick to a white man as an appropriate place for such people. Also she was somewhat deeper into the game and chuds don't actually play these games they complain about so they probably didn't get to her. Lots of contributing factors.
I don't remember anyone caring about tomb raider. Tob raider is the one game everyone i knew played.
Woke is when no TRIANGLE BAZOONGAS
Honestly I think this is a bad example. Guys are generally happy to play games with attractive bad-ass female leads. See Metroid/Tomb Raider/Bayonetta/Nier/etc
They complain about reboot Lara Croft's tits being too small. Regular sized boobs are woke of course.
I actually think this is a fantastic example for this reason. Gamers back in the day were PISSED when they found out Samus Aran was a fEmOiD
Were they? Has there been a survey or something? Because going off letters wrote or something is a pretty bad metric to judge the opinion of any general population,because guess who would be the people most motivated to voice their opinion. Whatever fraction of the observed population they make up can’t really be derived from that. (Also holds true for social media today)
The twist in the original Metroid was that you didn't find out Samus was a woman until the ending, I could totally see today's dumbass gamers calling that a bait-and-switch.
Kicker is that they have to be attractive, which is the real reason most have no hate towards them. Aloy wasn't traditionally attractive in the Horizon sequel and people lost their shit.
God, the fucking gamer rage around the Fable trailer was insane. They can't even take the idea of a woman not being traditionally attractive as a punchline. And to explain why woman no look good, they had to pull a story about a trans game dev being the model straight out their asses, because only one of them TRANS WOMEN could look slightly unattractive!
Tomb raider rocked... Bayonetta, not as much
Games if anything are less woke now than they used to be. Forget games featuring female protagonists; well-loved classics like Final Fantasy 7 have strong underlying themes regarding pollution, climate change and environmentalism, and Metal Gear Solid was a biting critique of the military industrial complex all the way back in the 90s!
Prior to the current, rampant commercialisation of video games - they used to be viewed as art or at the very least passion projects, intentionally designed with a strong underlying message.
The problem now is that with the ubiquity of the internet, Gamers™ have unintentionally collaborated into creating echo chamber where the worst of humanity is given the largest soap box.
I think it's the same issue as conservatives suddenly realizing their favorite band or movie/tv franchise is gasp woke!
They passively consume media without analyzing it beyond the surface level, then are personally offended that they were "baited" into consuming what they see as woke propaganda.
Then they also notice a trend of more overt progressive elements in media because of an increase in surface-level corporate pandering, and they blame "wokeness" for bad storytelling without realizing people who are actually woke hate the shallow pandering too.
Repubs be like, "Rage Against the Machine was really good until they got all political and stuff."
you can type
™for the proper ™ symbol.❤️
There are plenty of modern games that deliberately make these kinds of discussions. A handful I’ve played recently with strong political or at least philosophical themes:
- Helldivers 2
- Talos Principle (both games)
- Deus Ex series
- The Witcher series in general
I wasn’t trying to imply that there aren’t any games with strong messages nowadays - we’re discussing all the hullabaloo about games being “too woke” now, after all.
More-so I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of everyone railing against most modern games that dare to illustrate even the most milquetoast opinion counter to their own, while at the same time venerating the ‘good old days’.
Games if anything are less woke now than they used to be
For real, check out this dude complaining about anti-religion in Castlevania lol (I feel okay sharing this because account is deleted and thread is ancient by internet standeds, otherwise I always wanna prevent brigading etc): https://www.reddit.com/r/castlevania/comments/d57q9m/does_anyone_else_feel_like_the_antireligion/?rdt=55043
Or consider that God always dies in SMT games, or there’s a path to always do that
Not sure if it's mentioned yet but the "secret ending" of Metroid was that she takes off her helmet and reveals herself to be a woman in the end. It was actually written to be a surprise for people who beat the game very fast, which makes this a really weird example.
And honestly, I think that's them being accidently progressive for shock value, since subsequent secret speed run endings in later games had her in a bikini...
Is that true tho. I remember playing metroid a lot, but i don't think i ever beat it, because i was to young to really understand the whole backtracking thing. The only map i ever had to "read" untill metroid was the overworld map of super mario 3.
But i still knew she was a girl because when you died the armor flicked out or something.
I think you're confusing the original Metroid with Super Metroid. In the original, she bursts into particle effects upon death. It's not until Super Metroid that the armor actually disappears briefly on death, but by then the "secret" was already well known. https://youtu.be/OUNb_DF1zwI?si=bIjQfvjoQTiXRBjo
The original Metroid instruction manual - at least in English - refers to Samus as "he" throughout, so it was definitely set up as a surprise at the time. Still, while it could be better I still consider it subversive and cool and something similar happening today would probably still piss chuds off.
Tom Hanks had a TV show about two guys who wear women's clothes so they can live in a female only residence.
Ran from 1980 to 1982 and it was never a big deal with the Christian Nationalists then.
Some Like it Hot came out in 1959, and is about two guys who disguise themselves as women to hide from the mob. It did gangbusters despite not being approved by the Hayes Code, and is considered today to be an all time classic.
Mr. Television, Milton Berle did drag; as did such popular stars as Flip Wilson and Jonathan Winters.
Never seen the show, but isn't this an instance where cross-dressing is seen as a gag and not necessarily an acceptable and normal thing to do?
If Metroid came out today:
"UNBELIEVABLE!!! Woke SJW cultural marxists made Nintendo to put politically correct forced diversity into Metroid! Only on Chudcast, the podcast by naiveCentrist1355, formerAtheistTurnedChristianFundamentalist23456, epicGamer7822, Dr IGroomTeens, and iSwearIamNotANaziJustAModerateChoservativeChristianDemocrat1488"
I don't think this is a particularly good take. Inclusivity IS much more important today than it was to people even 10 years ago. The real issue is that being woke is GOOD! It's crazy that people have twisted it around, like shutting our eyes to the world's problems (being "asleep") is somehow the right way to be.
I think both are true. We are more interested in inclusivity today, and that is a good thing! But it's also true that certain currents in our society have reacted to that like an immune system to a foreign body. Things that were benign previously become objects of irritation and anger as one of the 'outsiders' even if it's no different than the long-established and beloved things.
The only time I hear about a new game coming out is when the protagonist or side character is a woman or black and the outrage from right wingers leaves gaming news
Her shoulders were only big because of the outfit. Which was very much in style for 1986.
On the best endings, especially for the games where she isn't 27 pixels in total, she's traditionally shown to be pretty muscular.
Not space-marine pauldron-filling muscular, but far too big not to be called woke..
Isn't she super tall?
Actual models vary pretty wildly by game (out of suit for Other M has her quite short compared to other people), but I believe the only official height and weight comes from the Super Metroid player's guide (and more vaguely in the Metroid 2 manual), which says she's 6'3" (190 cm) and weighs 198 pounds (90 kg) without the suit.
The issue I have Is when there whole character is that they are a minority
Like I love Ashoka but Ray Skywalker is just boring
Now when people hate on actual good characters like Samus That's when alarms should be sounded
I love how Rey could have been an example of how the force can manifest in anyone . But instead she's Palpatine's granddaughter so never mind turns out it's just hereditary lol. They had it all setup and then fumbled it.
It's kind of amazing how shitty episode 7-9 are. The franchise made a profit on momentum alone.
The trend of "let's make a woke cast of characters that are all from different cultural backgrounds!!111" and then completely abandoning good storytelling and worldbuilding is maddening.
I get there have always been garbage stories but most of the failures have all been from replacing a good story with ideology. You can't just abandon good story with established world logic and expect fans to not be up in arms. For some reason people forget that the only reason why characters become idols is because of the great stories they are in, not because the character looks like xyz (though cool character design does score some points too.)
I don't really have many videogame examples of this stuff, just movies and tv shows. Games can usually get away with a bad story and good gameplay or perhaps vice versa. Movies and TV have no gameplay (depth) to fall back on.
I just rewatched the original Star Wars trilogy with my dad because he was feeling nostalgic, and damn, Leia is more badass than the rest of the cast put together
No, there's a tiny sexy blonde girl in a leotard inside. Heck if you finish the first game fast enough you get to see it as a special reward.
Probably the wrong character to make the point tbh
Actually, the 'waifuization' of Samus Aran is relatively recent- originally she was described as 6'3" and 198lb, and looked like this:
I hate to be the one to say this, I love metroid and much prefer the giant buff samus depiction you linked to ZSS; but imo the games that really brought on the 'waifuization' of samus are echoes and zero mission, and they came out in 2004. That's 20 years ago, they're closer to NES Metroid (1986) than now.
Edit:typo
>Stirrups
Awooooooga!
How in the world is a 192 cm tall, and 90 kg woman small?
Hell, I'm 192 cm tall, and 115 kg, and most people tell me that I'm tall and "athletic" despite me having a "dad bod," with an IMO considerable gut. Admittedly I do miss the 8 pack I had when I was 14-24 years old, but I was painfully skinny and swimming my ass off literally to achieve that.
No, because she'd be a new character instead of a lazy, crappy rewrite of already established characters. Which is why I hate current Luke Skywalker, but not Miles Morales. It's why I hate current Klingons, but not Baldur's Gate 3 (haven't played it (yet), but I know there are gay characters involved, which is fine by me).
Thank god it's fine by you.
is miles morales not an original character ?
Not to put words in their mouth, but I think that’s what he’s saying:
Miles Morales is cool, because he’s his own person with their own character traits.
As opposed to rebooting Peter Parker and making him a half black, half Puerto Rican (which I think is what he is inferring when mentioning Luke Skywalker and Klingons).
Not to haters who think legacy heroes should never have successors or treat their name like some kind of precious think never to be touch by others (except for in the mainline comics, sometimes for years at a time but always reverting to the OG within 5-6 years).
Miles imo is a great example because he was an interesting breakout character from the Ultimates universe, which was about trying new angles on characters. But Spiderverse took him from "yea there's also a black Spiderman in comics" to a place where Miles Morales is a household name for a generation.
This robs the original Spider-Man of nothing. Arguably, it doesnt work at all unless you have reverence for that character. But people haaaaated Miles in certain circles of the internet. Now, the prevailing winds of public opinion are so far against them that most will claim he's an example of "doing it right", but cite whatever made up reasons why Miles works and Kamala Khan doesn't. Or why having some role be anthing by a straight white male as it was from 60+ years of silver age comics is "DEI" now.
She has large shoulders in the same way Batman have ears. Its a suit.
I believe the issue most people have are the strong woman thing. House of the dragon on HBO is awesome because they threat the women and black characters like actual humans. Rings of powers absolutely sucks because it doesn't treat women or black people as humans, but as a canvas to portray some opinion.
There will always be shit heads sure. But the majority of people aren't. Neither do they write up anti woke essays on the internet.
Actually, the 'waifuization' of Samus Aran is relatively recent- originally she was described as 6'3" and 198lb, anf looked like this:
They fucked up the quote. It's "Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Body".
If it came out today by a "woke" studio she wouldn't be blonde, attractive, or white, and she would use shitty popculture references.
Also, the gameplay wouldn't be good because the studio would blow the entire budget on paying celebrities to be voice actors, and culture experts.
Why do you think The WokesTM don't like hot women? Why do you think we're all prudish? At most, we all want different types of beautiful women.
You also conflate us with corporate shittyness, even though we're doing more to push back against it than anyone. We form unions to challenge these suits that are only good at squeezing money.
You think getting mad at woke games will challenge the forced references or overpriced celebrities? If anything, you're only ensuring the industry gets more soulless and creatively bankrupt. Game devs become "woke" after exploitation awakens them.
I used "woke" in quotes because the definition of woke is debatable. You clearly identify with a different type of "woke" than what I see as "woke".
To me "woke" means taking an established franchise that has a core audience that is mostly white male, then change that franchise to target a minority that probably doesn't like the franchise to begin with. This includes taking away the ability to self-insert for the majority, or making a character less attractive so that someone else can self-insert or be less offended about seeing beautiful characters.
Samus is a strong female protagonist with little personality, and you also barely see Samus outside of her armor. She is therefore a good self-insert for anyone. The reason she was made a woman and not just a mystery is because of the sex appeal, which clearly paid off if you ever search her rule34.
Viewing her sex appeal as problematic and removing it to promote body diversity is a "woke" thing to do, but also incredibly stupid, because of how important that sex appeal is to the franchise. A "woke" company would make this stupid decision, and the core demographic would be rightfully infuriated, because their beloved character was ruined.
I don't see for example Forspoken as problematic or even "woke" on a franchise level, because they made a new franchise with a new character, rather than ruining an existing one. It is maybe woke on an industry level because they target an almost non-existing demographic (people who can self-insert into the insufferable main character), but in my opinion, the only problematic part about that franchise is the way gamers were shamed for not liking it.
Now where do celebrity voice actors come in, you may ask. And to be honest, it is less about "wokeness" and more of a recent pattern seen in games that tend to be "woke" but it is a weak correlation, and more of a thing I said to highlight these studios inability to prioritize the important parts of games (making the gameplay good). A better example would probability have been only hiring voice actors of the same ethnicity as the character, thereby limiting the available high quality voice actors, and ending up with lower quality as a result. This is a "woke" move because it prioritizes DEI over quality.
About that thing you said about unions. I'm not really sure what wokeness has to do with it. Are you saying the main driving force behind these unions is wokeness? I only see unions as something that improves the quality of the workers rights and life, not the product itself. Not that I would know much about it. The japanese game industry that I'm part of has no unions as far as I know.
Those games would have been shit with more... traditional characters as well.
It's like with comic books. The writing has never been great, but incels only had a problem with it when they can't self insert into a power fantasy.
I recently learned there's at least one writer who has worked on both Halo 5 and Forspoken. A lot of people have issues with the writing quality of Halo 5. One issue I personally have is how many scenes don't really start or end. The scenes often open with the conversations already having started and don't seem to conclude by the time it ends. The lines I've heard of Forspoken are also awkward, but there's way more vitriol for Forspoken. Now why could there be so much more negative attention for that game?
It's like with comic books. The writing has never been great, but incels only had a problem with it when they can't self insert into a power fantasy.
The writing was great if you're into comic books, also self insertion in power fantasies is the purpose in these comic books. Complaining about this is like complaining about gambling at a casino.
The lines I've heard of Forspoken are also awkward, but there's way more vitriol for Forspoken. Now why could there be so much more negative attention for that game?
The difference between halo 5 and forspoken is that the main protagonist in halo 5 isn't insufferable. Of course people aren't going to like the game if they can't relate with the main protagonist. Forspoken seemed to target an audience that doesn't exist in the video game industry or at least is very underrepresented, so you're going to have mostly incompatible players trying it and disliking it. On top of that the protagonist is so full of herself it pisses off players who aren't this core demographic (that probably don't play video games to begin with).
