So I think the general idea is that you can convert more CO² to carbon in the form of sugars and O² molecules per square foot with algae than with trees. Trees would totally do the same thing if we ripped up all the concrete and buildings to replant a forest, but that process would take decades.
This can be added into existing infrastructure and helps I guess. Kinda a neat concept.
It would be. Cities and urban areas aren't the problem. Suburbs, with 20+ Minute commutes, on hot swollen rivers of concrete and asphalt flowing from them, with every individual in their own metal/polymer box burning hydrocarbons is the bigger problem. Cities might be a solution.
Conversely these algae tanks can go lots of places a tree wouldn't be practical. They'll never need to be trimmed out of power lines etc. Or tear up sidewalks, streets or foundations. That's not to say we shouldn't have trees. Just more green overall.
I have this fantasy where we humanity has a whole biotechnology skill tree that we never unlocked but there's like a Renaissance waiting to happen that will one day uncover all these cool new branch's
But why not just like... Do that somewhere where the mass actually makes a difference? You'd be better off dumping acres full of this shit instead of regrowing a forest. Doing it in individual tanks, sparsely within a city, is both an inefficient use of resources and fucking ugly.
Trees only purpose in a city is not to clean out CO2. It's not even their primary purpose in a city. If it was, they'd be selecting specific species etc.
Alright I'm just going off of what I learned in environmental science class this summer, not an expert here. There was something about algae blooms (usually caused by fertilizer runoff) being a really bad thing for local ecosystems. I'm not sure if this is relevant to what you're saying, just throwing it out there lol
I mean ideally we would flood the ocean with Fe³ and spark a mass breed of this shit where it belongs. The biomass could work it's way up the food chain as an added benefit too.
While it's good to be skeptical, algae tanks like this are actually a good idea for the use-cases for which they are designed. Places where trees would be difficult and expensive to grow. The tanks more efficiently capture carbon, require less maintenance, produce fertilizer as a byproduct and the solar panels on the tank produce enough extra power for there to be a USB charger on the bench. The goal isn't to replace trees with tanks but to use them where it makes sense to do so.
Too expensive to grow trees? Thank god capitalism is saving us so much money, we are all so rich now that we can simply buy oxygen tanks instead of having to deal with those money sucking trees and plants.
To echo what some other people have said, these algae tanks absolutely should not be used instead of trees. If I see a tree get chopped down and replaced with one of these, I’ll be sad and angry. However, these can go in places where trees can’t go, like rooftops. And you don’t have to either wait for a tree to grow for a decade or take a tree from somewhere else to install one. It also serves as both a seating area and can mount a solar panel on top. These and trees both have their place and should both continue to be used.
You don't need to put algae in cities. They can be basically anywhere to absorb CO2.
Trees in cities tend to be carefully chosen for the environment. Are we in a climate where we need to put salt on the road in the winter? Choose trees that can tolerate some salt in the ground.
And the oceans are incredibly vast, so they provide most of the world's oxygen! Obviously it's hard to get a precise number but 50-70% is the accepted range.
There are many reasons to plant trees in the city but local oxygen supply isn't one of them. Mostly trees look nice, and make people feel better by their presence. They also have a significant cooling effect, something a steamy tank full of warm algae definitely won't help with on a summer day.
You really think those massive, experimental water tanks won't require more maintenance, because you have to trim trees once ever few years? Or because their roots might grow too much?
Well of course, you can't give working class people any money for working, you can only give them a slave-wage. That's why all manufacturing was outsourced to very underdeveloped countries when NAFTA was first put into place.
You can easily get away with exploiting people who have no other choice but to work for a dollar per year, but it's much more difficult to do that to someone's neighbor in their community.
Let me explain what I mean by that: when a driver fucks up and his car careens off the street and hits a tree, the tree stops the car very abruptly. That's great for, say, an innocent pedestrian who was saved by hiding behind the tree, but can apply rather serious consequences to the negligent driver. Car-brained traffic engineers see it as their mission to protect drivers from any and all consequences, so they insist on ripping out all the trees to create a gigantic "clear zone" so that the car is free to careen wherever it wants without hitting anything solid. Squishy things within the clear zone, such as pedestrians, don't enter into consideration.
In other words, one important "advantage" of these "liquid trees" over real trees is that they can be mounted on breakaway stands, so that they yield (and therefore provide no protection to any hapless bastard who might've been sitting on the bench at the time) when a car hits them.
It's sad that the effort to do something innovative to solve a problem can easily get dismissed via a zero effort critique by someone who never took the time to learn why it was created.
There is a tree right next to it. LOL so obviously space for trees. The trunks take up less space, its just they require pulling up surrounding sidewalk sometimes, and maintenance crew for trimming and watering in dry spells.
Trees don't perform nearly as much work as the algae tank in sucking up C02 and outputting 02, require more maintenance, and takes longer to deploy (have to wait for tree to mature).
I think a lot of these are just cool experiments and projects grad students do for the sake of doing them. Then some hack writes an op ed about how we don't need to worry about deforestation because we can plop algae tanks down instead.
I thought it was more of an experiment that, if proven successful, could eventually aid in the exploration of space since we would need to engineer ways of creating oxygen for prolonged travel.
Sadly, dealgaeation is quickly becoming a catastrophic problem. However, we are confident we can soon genetically modify human lungs to partially breathe the sulphur clouds that will engulf our planet!
Trees offer real world benefits of carbon reduction, temperature reduction, shade for people, the psychological benefits that trees offer, some limited wildlife habitat, and they do it without much outside help. They grow themselves with decent maintenance.
But you have to build and maintain this tank. What carbon was used to do so, and what maintenance will it need. Can it offset its own cost? It offers no benefits to wildlife, no shade, no temperature reduction.
Yeah, trees leave leaf litter and can heave sidewalks with roots, but given that neither system is perfect, there’s no reason to argue that boxes of algae are better.
Why do we need to argue which is better? In some places, beautification isn't really practical, but you can still stick these around. They don't look hard to install or uninstall, unlike trees.
I would hate to see a tree actually replaced by one these. But no one but the meme is saying that is the plan.
I think we have reached the limit for how much we should "improve" and replace nature, if there's no room for trees we should make room instead of accomodating yet another industrial solution to a problem created by industry in the first place.
Nobody uses an urban tree that gets cut down. It just gets hauled off to the landfill.
It's absolutely ludicrous that when the gigantic oak in my yard fell the arborist didn't know of anybody who could cut it up into lumber for me -- even in a city with so many urban trees that it's called the "city in a forest" -- but allegedly the economics of it don't work out, or something. I dunno if that's true, but it pisses me off enough that I'm half-tempted to go buy a damn portable sawmill and start a business doing it myself.
Say that to the table in my living room. (They removed a lot of old exotic trees that were lining some road some years back, those trees got sold to people making nice tables).
Selling the trees was only a side effect, and these weren't your run of the mill trees either. But exceptions exist
I'd have to see how it is better than, worse than trees on a case-by-case basis. But generally speaking, I can think of a few reasons this is better:
Trees are messy. They take a long time to grow, they take constant maintenance while growing, then they eventually die. Tree roots fuck up pipes & concrete. If this installation is equivalent to 1 or more trees, it is doing the work in a fraction of the space.
At the same time, though, green space has shown to improve mental health. I would be curious (and very sceptically biased) if algae tanks have the same impact.
For real, the people on this site deserve the hell they create for each other. If Kbin had a functioning account delete button, I'd have been gone months ago.
Guys, it's not one or the other. We can have trees and algae tanks. Trees can still offer all of the benefits they do like shade and beauty while algae tanks can be used to increase fresh oxygen. Algae is much better at absorbing CO2 than trees and providing clean air which is a big problem in a busy city.
It is one or the other because they'll come out of the same budget - it's an "opportunity cost". So if the city has $1000 to spend on either a tree or a tank, then they can't spend the same $1000 on both items. We'd need some balance between the two.
We are in a parasitic relationship with capitalism. Capitalism constantly extracts from life and the environment. When life begin to limit captialism, capitalism will go to great ends to remove life. Capitalism is not sustainable, nor is it naturally occurring. Abolish this evil system.
How about we only have some capitalism. Let's only allow less slavery and habitat destruction in exchange for us all to be subservient to billionaires.
This whole thread is a great example of why I'm continually disappointed with Lemmy. Half the comments are just some variation of "capitalism bad". I hate capitalism as much as the next guy, but it sure would be nice if people would stop grinding their axes for a few minutes to talk about the actual subject of the post. Or just not comment at all if they don't have anything relevant to say.
People tend to forget that trees have roots.
Roots cause problems with infrastructure.
Hence why when a problem arises you try to "get to the root of it".
I saw something like this, which piped exhaust from a generator thru a container of water and algae, with the idea to capture the co2, etc produced. Sure why not. I'll still prefer trees.
God, yes. Trees provide shade, transpirative cooling, homes for animals (birds, mammals, insects), and a particular natural beauty that tanks of algae do not.
And you can't grow trees on concrete. This one is particular is just the first one of it's kind and it's mostly in a spot to show off the technology. I'm not aware of any other ones that have been built yet.
All these people being like “why don’t we just use trees” as if the capitalists could profit from them like this. And not to say this is cost efficient, of course planting a tree would be better for everyone, but whoever installs these things will have a contract guaranteeing them money that taxpayers will be told is being put toward green initiatives and so will be eager to part with it I guess
Local ordinances specify minimum space requirements for trees, which may mean that they're not allowed to be put in certain places. Also, they can cause pedestrian safety issues, as well as Ada compliance problems in confined spaces. This is an easy way to get something green in a place where you would otherwise not see a tree because of a lot of beaurocratic bullshit.
Obviously, you can argue that all that needs to be changed. And you'd be right. And in many places it's moving that way. But then you also wouldn't get anything done for quite some time. This is an option where there might be no other viable options at the moment.
This doesn't have a root system to worry about so it needs less underground space. Don't get me wrong I love me a good tree, but in places where there isn't enough land for roots to spread this could be useful. Lots of side walk trees die due to not enough space for the roots
It's been proven that humans didn't actually get most of their fresh air from the rainforest, but actually from millions of these algea in the sea... Which is actually more logical, since trees do the opposite at night, kinda undoing any advantage they made during the day...
Hence why it's said you should never put a decorative small tree or even plants in the bedroom as they can take away oxygen levels in closed rooms at night. It's even said not to sleep under trees outside at night cause it can cause respiratory problems.
They don't use enough oxygen over night to negate the effect as they use the carbon to grow. It's still bad to have a lot of plants in your bedroom, but it doesn't really matter as long as they are relatively small.
That had me go and look it up and apparently you're right that they use part of the carbon dioxide as energy storage, but as I understand this storage eventually gets released in full when the tree dies too...
Not sure if that would be so much to balance it out again, but it does still diminish their overall effect even more...
I am under the impression that trees don't actually produce that much oxygen. That they're more like carbon banks, storing it as they grow and then releasing it again when they die, rot or burn down. Meanwhile most of the oxygen produced actually comes from algae and other sources.
Source: some old memory of something I heard, so take it with a grain of salt. It would explain these things tho, beyond the cases where growing a tree would be impractical.
That was my thought as well. I've seen what some homeless people are capable of. (Not trying to dump on unhoused people, here, but there are some seriously ill people left out on the streets). This glass needs to be nearly unbreakable for it to work
Trees and algae have different utilities. Trees are beautiful, reduce temperature, offer shade, and produce a modest amount of oxygen. Algae tanks produce vastly more oxygen by volume and cause you to question whether it’s really enough to continue meandering through life in this stone and metal postmodern hellscape and maybe it’s okay to finally indulge in a vacation near open fields and untamed wilderness. The local camping spots might be available in a few weeks if my sanity can hold out. One doesn’t completely substitute the other.
Because they pick trees that have gender. They plant male trees, see dogwoods, the flower but not bare fruit. So you get allergies because of tree cum. And as far as I know plankton cum doesn't come with side effects.
I don't even understand which part of the tree experience these tanks are supposed to replace. Are they really just there to pick up CO2? Because you can also plant a forest outside the city for that.
You'll miss out on all the other tree benefits, but so you also will with these glass tanks.
People can grow trees. You need a lot more to make one of those contraptions. Hard to control people when they can just grow a plant to do what they need.