It's not just Adobe. Now Logitech wants me to go to a random website in order to add peripherals to my computer, and I'm met with this when I go to the page they tell me to
It's not just Adobe. Now Logitech wants me to go to a random website in order to add peripherals to my computer, and I'm met with this when I go to the page they tell me to
As if it wasn't bad enough that they want me to use a random internet service to add a keyboard to a usb wifi receiver, they have the balls to put this for Firefox users. I clicked out of pure curiosity, as I'm not even remotely interested in involving a corporate internet service in getting my keyboard connected to my computer. This is the message you get now on Logi Options software if you have a Unifying Receiver: 
For the curious: https://logiwebconnect.com
EDIT: some people on the thread have brought up that the error message being displayed for Firefox users is due to the WebUSB API not being implemented by Firefox due to security concerns. This still does not justify having to use a web app to plug peripherals to a PC.
Lesson learnt. Stop buying products from HP, Adobe and now Logitech. Create a list of shitty companies and share it with everyone. Consumers have the ultimate power, stop buying g their product ans see how quickly they change everything back to normal.
Comments like this just make me depressed (well this is all depressing really) because it feels like a lot of people don't quite understand how utterly insignificant we are to these businesses. They will lose so few customers it won't even wiggle the dial. People will simply download Chrome to do whatever this is, they will get the data they want, user goes back to using Firefox until the next shitty company makes them use Chrome for something.
The problem is simply the consumers. We are all suffering, increasingly, because of the complacency, tech illiteracy, laziness, and short-sightedness of the average consumer. It's not really their fault, in that these businesses are the ones making the decision to do this, but realistically, if there's no market pressure, a business is going to do exactly what every business does, which is maximize all potential avenues for profit.
The average consumer is the reason why we can't have nice things anymore. And it is getting very hard not to feel a certain degree of resentment toward them as everything seems to just get progressively worse and worse with no hope in sight for any type of correction. They don't think that this is something they need to care about, and it legit makes me want to scream thinking about 6-7 years from now when these same exact people will complain about how unusable the internet has gotten.
@deweydecibel @Yoz don't blame the consumers people have busy lives and don't have the time or interest to spend their limited free time learning privacy or avoiding a certain company because of an obscure privacy reason they don't understand.
this is why market pressure is essentially bullshit. If more aggressive action is taken towards these companies instead of just blindly believing in the free market we might actually make an impact.
we have the free time let's use it to hurt them
The average consumer is the reason why we canât have nice things anymore.
No, it's the supply side cornering the market. If there was two similar mouses on the shelf, and one said "no crappy spyware bundled", the average consumer would buy that. That's what they teach the "free market" is, and how free market capitalism should solve this problem.
But free markets don't really exist, the better mouse without crappy spyware doesn't either, so people need to come together and force corporations to respect the social contract. One might call this governmental regulation. That's where the answer is.
100% even I blame the consumers for being lazy and illiterate.
I think we will finish sooner if we make a list of ethical corporations:
These are the closest I've found in the US: https://www.bcorporation.net/en-us/certification/
yeah I'll start:
- ă ¤
done
The list is a book
đ¤Łđ¤Ł
Add
- NVIDIA
- Apple
- Microsoft
- Meta
- Tencent
- Amazon
- ARM
to the list
Yep this. We act like wait, how, what, why, where when we let them do it all along. Take the camera back. Let them choke on their websites, registration and other nonsense.
heh, all of them (plus several others) were on my list of "never buy from them" list a decade ago. Never had any reason to reconsider
Ever since the fake tweeters (the speaker).
well shit, their mouse are good. do we have an alternative to the mx master series?
Now imagine having to do this under literal pressure while trying to configure the Logitech controller for your submarine.
If your website doesn't work with non-chromium browsers your website doesn't work.
Well, no, this is using the WebUSB most likely which is not supported by Firefox. Regardless of the security implications of the WebUSB API, this is a Firefox specific issue
Motto of this age of internet
Especially when there are things like Babel that make it fairly trivial to get your scripts working on all browsers.
I run the website on Vivaldi and it didn't work
Wow, wtf Logitech?
Any simple device, that should just work by plugging it into your computer, that instead demands an internet connection between you and the device.. is 100% a device thats designed to steal your information/habits/etc.
because there is no reason to have the expenditure and costs of running a webservice otherwise.
it's 100% a device that is getting returned for a full refund because it literally doesn't work.
I own Logitech products and I while I agree it should work out of the box, it's great you can change the connection to a different USB plug in case you lost one. Until they started providing this web app you had to install their software and it only supported Windows and OSX. On Linux, having it available through Chrome is better than before.
Friend bought an Asus motherboard. In the user's manual, in the pins layout section, there's no instructions nor description of the pins, but instead a QR code and a text that tell you to scan it for the Pins Layout instructions. (Note: The page is mostly blank and have tons of empty space, beside the QR code and the little small print texts). Scan The QR code, lead to a page to download another PDF. Open the PDF, it have one single page showing the Pins Layout description. (That only took half of the page)
And my friend wonder why I got so mad.
You just know that that page will be gone one day and then nobody will ever be able to find that pinout anymore
Print the page and save it in a box so you can be a hero in 20 years.
As a public service, we should set up clearly named torrents of files like this.
This is reminding of how pissed off I am with Adobe recently after using After Effects a lot, documentation, or lack thereof. It's really hard to find instructions on what a given effect does, or how to use it. Each effect in the effect panel in After Effects itself has an about button in a context menu, but it's a credit for the author of the effect which is useless and weird anyway because aside from some exceptions the credit is 'Adobe' . There's no locally supplied electronic document for the user manual, it's all online. That's frustrating enough, but there doesn't really seem to be any one single user manual, there's lots of different things with similar names but with widely varying degrees of detail. Sometimes if you happen to accidentally stumble on to the right section of Adobe's site that has a list of effects and also details about them (there's at least one page which just lists them) the degree of detail is variable in the extreme. One effect I tried to use didn't have any user reference and the best I could find on Adobe's own website was a dead link to a forum post (not Adobe's forums, a random internet forum) which I was eventually able to find myself through Google and then recover the video via youtube (the original of course was long since not on that site). That video also, while very helpful, wasn't even entirely correct because the author of the effect responded to the forum post many years ago to correct some incorrect information in the tutorial.
I was already furious at this fucking joke of an attempt at documentation of their own software, but I looked up more videos, all from around 2008-2009ish and in those videos, the user was running the Adobe Creative Suite software that used to come in a box before Creative Cloud and they were able to open up a real user manual that came with the software which had documentation for the very effect that they were able to browse to demonstrate some of the concepts for its proper use. WTF!? They had documentation already written and then revoked access to it! Why!? What's the point? Ant they have the documentation for the effects in some form albeit varyingly useful, on their website, why can't they just collate it in to a PDF and package with the application download? Resolve does, I use it often. It's so unprofessional to rely on random internet forum posts from decades past in lieu of proper documentation. People lament users not RTFM well I literally couldn't.
I'm spitting at my screen like it's adobe's face while reading all that
I can sort of see the reason behind it. If they're hosting the manual then they can keep it updated (typos/mistakes/changes etc.). Printed manuals can become outdated by the time it reaches the buyer.
What they should've done instead was to include a printed version, and then add a QR code to see the latest version online. That would've been very handy
The thing is it's not the entire manual, just one (half) single page that tell me which pins doing what.
The printed manual is for this specific model (with exact rev. Version) and with the rest of the information available.
The physical pins on this board is not going to randomly change themselves.
If theyâre hosting the manual then they can keep it updated (typos/mistakes/changes etc.).
This was never a problem with manuals when they were hosted offline.
Printed manuals can become outdated by the time it reaches the buyer.
What, the product magically changes during shipping?
Are they updating the pin layout after I bought the motherboard somehow? The dude didn't say it was the whole manual. Just the pin layout on the actual hardware.
Even if it was the whole manual: the hardware won't be updated. The BIOS could be, but that's like one little section of the manual most of the time and would be the only thing to make sense to send a user to a webpage for. All the info about the physical thing will never change, so needing it online to be updated is unnecessary.
You know you fight it? Return it. Say it doesn't work with your system. It's a perfectly valid reason to return a product.
Wait until you learn about the government. To get your birth or marriage certificate, my county requires that you go to a totally shady URL of a private company that actually is in the business of printing those and shipping them, for a fee of course. Oh and enter your SSN and ID please, without knowing if thereâs any security standards they follow.
Am I the only one spooked that the government would not keep those records itself??? And ask a private entity that returns almost nothing if googled by name?!?
This depends on your government I guess? In Germany the authority for passports is a private company (former state property and now again owned by the Federal Republic of Germany) - but indeed that sounds scary.
I get this vibe from kroll. I have had multiple companies send me mailing to use kroll monitoring after they have had a security leak.
So itâs doubly concerning. They managed to lose my info and not they want me to use a random shaft looking website to monitor my credit.
In the beginning there was NCSA Mosaic, and Mosaic called itself NCSA_Mosaic/2.0 (Windows 3.1), and Mosaic displayed pictures along with text, and there was much rejoicing.
And behold, then came a new web browser known as âMozillaâ, being short for âMosaic Killer,â but Mosaic was not amused, so the public name was changed to Netscape, and Netscape called itself Mozilla/1.0 (Win3.1), and there was more rejoicing. And Netscape supported frames, and frames became popular among the people, but Mosaic did not support frames, and so came âuser agent sniffingâ and to âMozillaâ webmasters sent frames, but to other browsers they sent not frames.
And Netscape said, let us make fun of Microsoft and refer to Windows as âpoorly debugged device drivers,â and Microsoft was angry. And so Microsoft made their own web browser, which they called Internet Explorer, hoping for it to be a âNetscape Killerâ. And Internet Explorer supported frames, and yet was not Mozilla, and so was not given frames. And Microsoft grew impatient, and did not wish to wait for webmasters to learn of IE and begin to send it frames, and so Internet Explorer declared that it was âMozilla compatibleâ and began to impersonate Netscape, and called itself Mozilla/1.22 (compatible; MSIE 2.0; Windows 95), and Internet Explorer received frames, and all of Microsoft was happy, but webmasters were confused.
And Microsoft sold IE with Windows, and made it better than Netscape, and the first browser war raged upon the face of the land. And behold, Netscape was killed, and there was much rejoicing at Microsoft. But Netscape was reborn as Mozilla, and Mozilla built Gecko, and called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826, and Gecko was the rendering engine, and Gecko was good. And Mozilla became Firefox, and called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041108 Firefox/1.0, and Firefox was very good. And Gecko began to multiply, and other browsers were born that used its code, and they called themselves Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040825 Camino/0.8.1 the one, and Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.1.8) Gecko/20071008 SeaMonkey/1.0 another, each pretending to be Mozilla, and all of them powered by Gecko.
And Gecko was good, and IE was not, and sniffing was reborn, and Gecko was given good web code, and other browsers were not. And the followers of Linux were much sorrowed, because they had built Konqueror, whose engine was KHTML, which they thought was as good as Gecko, but it was not Gecko, and so was not given the good pages, and so Konquerer began to pretend to be âlike Geckoâ to get the good pages, and called itself Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.2; FreeBSD) (KHTML, like Gecko) and there was much confusion.
Then cometh Opera and said, âsurely we should allow our users to decide which browser we should impersonate,â and so Opera created a menu item, and Opera called itself Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 9.51, or Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; U; en; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061208 Firefox/2.0.0 Opera 9.51, or Opera/9.51 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) depending on which option the user selected.
And Apple built Safari, and used KHTML, but added many features, and forked the project, and called it WebKit, but wanted pages written for KHTML, and so Safari called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; de-de) AppleWebKit/85.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/85.5, and it got worse.
And Microsoft feared Firefox greatly, and Internet Explorer returned, and called itself Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0) and it rendered good code, but only if webmasters commanded it to do so.
And then Google built Chrome, and Chrome used Webkit, and it was like Safari, and wanted pages built for Safari, and so pretended to be Safari. And thus Chrome used WebKit, and pretended to be Safari, and WebKit pretended to be KHTML, and KHTML pretended to be Gecko, and all browsers pretended to be Mozilla, and Chrome called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/525.13 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/0.2.149.27 Safari/525.13, and the user agent string was a complete mess, and near useless, and everyone pretended to be everyone else, and confusion abounded.
Oh for fucks sake. It's getting to the point where this needs legislative intervention to put an end to this tomfuckery.
Every day, I'm inching closer and closer to pulling the trigger on moving to Linux once and for all.
Just do it. I've been on Linux full time for >10 years, and these days there's very little to give up when going to Linux.
Give it a shot! Maybe you'll like it. :)
Me 4-5 years ago. Join us. :p
It's totally doable now. Even compared to when I switched (when Windows 10 came out), it's smoother and easier to transition.
The only real issues are adobe products being a pain in the ass. I don't use them in the first place, but they're a dealbreaker that requires dual booting for some folks.
Anything else mainstream tends to be WINE friendly nowadays. I keep a Windows 7 media computer for my music needs because musicbee is a pain in the ass on Linux, and that's it. Everything else is linux now that's mine.
For music, consider running a Plex server and using Plexamp. It's a fantastic app, and they recently made the basic features free - previously you had to have a Plex Pass. There's Plexamp apps for Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android, and iOS.
Join us. Gooble Gobble we accept them!
I switched fairly recently and it's definitely not perfect. Some stuff is better, some worse. The big thing for me is: Linux on desktop is getting better and better all the time. Windows on the other hand? Well, just ask any windows user. Most of them seem to want to just go back to XP.Just did it, building my Arch now. Working on ricing, and I got GPU passthrough setup for a Windows VM for when I need it
Nobara os sets up everything you need for gaming by default
Iâve been using Linux more at work, and holy crap is it quick and smooth to install something like Linux Mint now. Itâs just as smooth once you start using it too.
Iâve been using Fedora too, and itâs all good, but Linux Mint really surprised me.
Yeah, it's doable nowadays. There are many guides that can help you pick a distro and then install what you need. If you're a beginner, usually Linux Mint is the one to go for, unless you have extremely recent hardware
What is stopping you? You won't regret it
Mainly a couple of work programs I depend on and it never gets multi monitors right on my laptop. Also, I have to keep myself familiar with Windows to support my customers.
Ok well as a Linux user I don't get any of this. I connect to the keyboard with Bluetooth and it just works when you plug it in. There are no pop-ups or alerts to go to any web pages.
Just saying life is quite a bit better here in that regard.
Problem are extra funtionalities. I have a MX Mastee 3. Works perfectly on Linux, but is has a additional Button for the Thumb. Can't be configured on Linux officially. There's a third party script called Logiops. It sometimes work, but it's not relieable either...
Ah yes, extra functionalities probably don't work on Linux, thats true. I have gotten so used to that but it would be frustrating if I just bought a very expensive MX mouse of course.
I have just stopping buying those things so in a way I'm missing out, but I also don't have to deal with this stuff. So its just pros and cons as usual.
My setup is based around Logitech Unified Receivers and my linux desktop. I use solaar for pairing, which offers more functionaliry that Logitechs own software does for Windows
Solaar is 100x better than the crappy official app.
I had a Logitech mouse and keyboard. OpenRGB and Piper can be used to set the RGB and adjust the bindings, DPI etc
I have a Logitech K380 that for some goddamned reason by default requires Fn keys pressed to use function keys normally. On Win and MacOS their software can be used to turn it off. On Linux it's a bunch of scripts that sometimes work and sometimes don't.
I have a keyboard with the same anti feature. It is beyond stupid. I used to like Logitech stuff, since 2016 or so when I got that keyboard I've hated them. I've had a couple other of their devices since then, and they always come with some bullshit that require their special software or a special account to disable.
I fuckin hate Logitech now.
This picture here seems pretty damning for a monopoly suit. They didn't even include Firefox, meaning every browser listed is reliant on Chrome's Chromium engine.
Other people on the thread have commented that it's actually due to Firefox not implementing WebUSB due to security concerns, so it is technically a valid message, but for the wrong reasons. Why the hell does this need to be a web app?
For tracking purposes !
The reason is simple: Web developers earn less on average than backend developers.
It's the exact reason why nearly all modern "apps" are just packaged browsers rendering web pages and their APIs are in turn node servers also running in the background. Instead of actually native software. The web devs are cheap, more so if you keep hiring fresh BAs and firing anyone with seniority.
It doesn't. Logitech does provide software for doing this. No browser needed. https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025297913-Logitech-Unifying-Software
Enshitification continues. It has no bounds.
Add that to the list of reasons I'll never buy Logitech again.
I'm in the market for a new keyboard and mouse. Any brand recommendations? I'm looking for something normal... No mechanical clicking, no glowing lights, etc. Just a normal wireless keyboard and mouse.
I recently bought a cordless, very flat keyboard from Cherry - loving it.
"This browser does not support the application" No, the application doesn't support the browser
At least keyboards and mouse should be plug and play.
All of my Logitech devices have come pre-paired. It's when you want to add additional devices to an existing receiver that you need the software. The idea behind the unifying receiver was to not require multiple dongles of you wanted to mix and match keyboard and mice.
This could, of course, be solved with a pairing button on the receiver, however instead of software. I had to get the IT department at work to install the unifying software on my work machine so I could pair a new mouse and keyboard.
For what it's worth, you can pair the devices and dongle on any machine, and those pairings are maintained when moving the dongle to a new machine.
But then how would they force you to create an account, register the devices, accept a ToS which gives them rights to your first born son, and inadvertently sign up for 97 spam campaigns?
This is why google adding DRM to google chrome is another blow to firefox, website owner will definitly not want you to mess up with their site or block adds. and if you want to use the web you will have no option but chromium based browsers.
Since configuring a printer or a keyboard require online web applications, I'm looking forward the need for web app to setup my network card.
Thanks for sharing this, I'm definitely not buying Logitech products now.
I wonder if there's an open source/local implementation to connect your keyboard to the receiver?
I found this program called Solaar for Linux at least
For other mice Piper is a good alternative under Linux. I use it for my G502.
Fuck Adobe in particular. Greedy bastards.
Well, thanks for the hot tip to never buy a Logitech keyboard. I have a G604 mouse and it's really been giving me a headache, it conveniently started double clicking right after Logitech's in house warranty expired. A bit of internet research shows it's a fairly common problem with the mouse, though it sounds like Logitech fights people tooth and nail about it when it expires within the warranty. Often people get the exact same mouse back and are told it doesn't have any issues, yet it continues to double click. I really love the unlockable scroll wheel but between my mouse lasting just a year and now their web connect non-sense, I think I'll be moving on from the brand. Don't even get me started on their mouse software, they present Ghub bloatware as the solution, when the real answer to manage your mouse is the program they made for pro gamers called Onboard Memory Manager.
I had a Logitech trackball start double clicking right after the warranty expired too. Seems intentional to me. Now logitech is on my company shitlist and I won't be buying anything from them.
Ran into double clicking issues on my two G903s, eventually ended up putting some aftermarket switches on the second one. They would be the YIMAGUJRX RUNJRX Red Kaith GM 4.0 Mouse Micro Switches on Amazon. That was 2 years ago, longer than either of the two G903s lasted (and I did swap my first G903 switches with some Japanese omrons from Muccus brand, but they ran into the same issue after a while), so you might want to look into whether the G604 can use them. It's ridiculous that the end user would need to end up learning how to solder and get soldering gear to fix a high end product after a year...twice....but here we are.
As for the Onboard Memory Manager, I'll have to look into that one. I hate having to have GHub running lest I want a rainbow mess and no macros on my G903.
So how long do you have left on your mouse subscription before it expires?
You gotta set up that monthly payment on your credit card!
Not the Logitech I became a fan of, glad they updated the name to Logi reflecting they're half the company they used to be.
I miss the old Logitech software and Logitech Gaming Software, from like 10 years ago.
Now I can't even launch the driver software to adjust my webcam or mouse behavior from my work computer because of legitimate Internet security settings preventing random background apps from exfilteating data, which is exactly what it's trying to do.
Customer support of course blames the user for their app that will never finish loading until it talks to the mother ship.
In fairness to me this kind of thing is nothing new on Logitechâs part. Back in the XP/Vista days, Logitech refused to follow established usb standards for things like webcamâs and the like. So we depended on Logitech providing drivers, which they didnât bother doing for a lot of their hardware beyond XP. So all of a sudden a 1 year old bit of hardware wouldnât work on Vista because reasons.
Logitech and Creative Labs were the absolute worst for forcing proprietary tech and then refusing to support it properly.
I get this fun error:
Since I have no clue which random USB cable came with the keyboard I am locked out of the settings or updates for my 200⏠keyboard.
God, I hate everything. Type C was meant to make everything easier, not fuck us over with non-standardized proprietary versions from every fucking manufacturer.
Write to their customer support and complain.
Modern software is honestly disgusting. I hate shit like this.
Sometimes I think I might have spent too much for my FLOSS System76 Launch keyboard but seeing this kind of monopoly moat-building chicanery makes me feel better.
You can never spend too much money on mechanical keyboards :D
$285, Jeez.
Have you tried the old "Unifying Software"? https://support.logi.com/hc/hu/articles/360025297913 Maybe try the Bolt app: https://support.logi.com/hc/hu/articles/4418089333655
Edit: the FAQ says you should be able to add devices with the Logi Options+ app: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500007354982-How-to-connect-a-Bolt-device Have you tried that?
Last time I dealt with this I had to download that one to add/remove devices. It was always a separate app for some reason, maybe they just moved it to the browser?
Also about the firefox notice: I think in this case it's not fully Logitech's fault, it's not the classic lazy developers, you cannot workaround it with user agent switcher: Firefox doesn't support the WebUSB api, considering it's an usb device it should need this api: https://caniuse.com/webusb The supported browsers are same as the ones supporting WebUSB.
That's another thing that firefox deliberately doesn't support this api for security and privacy reasons: https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#webusb
The next question is why they developed this app as a webapp? It doesn't make any sense. If you don't have internet you cannot setup your keyboard? There are still a lot of situations when people have to use their computers without internet, this just plain stupid. But I've seen a lot of stupid things from logitech, even though I love their hardware, typing this from my K750 solar keyboard.
these sort of shitty browser support walls on sites worry me more about the browser DRM Google is developing
They used to force you to download a random app to get your peripherals connected, which was incredibly annoying for me. Didn't think they could find a way to make things even more annoying. No more Logitech peripherals for me I guess.
Annoying for you but not for them. Instead of shitty apps, they can now just make shitty websites. It's much simpler for them.
Want to actually stop this? Buy a device & return it because of this. Now repeat once a week at a different store. Use cash.
Cashier: "So, uh... Why are you returning this?"
Serial Return Activist: "Because I have to use Chrome to install the device, and I don't want to use Chrome because of browser monopoly and privacy concerns."
Cashier: "Got it."
Checks box marked 'Found A Lower Price'
The individual cashier wonât care, but the manufacturer might, especially if theyâre returned as defective because they then make their way back as RMA.
Shops will also stop stocking the item if it stands out because more people return them.
They want to make a profit after all and if they have to discount items as âopen boxâ then theyâre losing out on profit, especially since the margins on some of these are already pretty low for retailers.
If this tool runs in the browser, I bet it's using the WebUSB API, which Firefox doesn't appear to support: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/USB
Honestly I prefer it this way. This means that it's a lot less likely that a bug exposes my USB devices to a random website
Good.
Tech is becoming aids. I miss the day you had an aux cable and a USB cable and that's all the fuck you needed.
What baud rate your serial connection needs? Parity bit? Is it even COM1 or COM2?
It wasn't better, it was annoying in a different way.
I have never in my life thought about those things
This recent trend of using the browser window to handle logins and authentication is lame. Several apps that I use at work use the browser for file tracking too. You open a shared file, which opens the browser, which then opens the program with the correct file. Like what the fuck? It's lazy and annoying. They polute your workspace with open tabs that you never wanted. If they're going to use the browser for handling everything, then just make it a fucking web app! But nooo! You need to download our program so that we can track you, even though we actually use the browser for all of the functionality.
Browser auth is easier to dev and more secure because SSL is pre-established. Browsers tend to get security updates more often and have built in cert stores. Browsers are so central to an OS nowadays that path traversal is easier to set up, relative to individual apps.
If every application had to write this functionally, companies would have to redirect dev focus away from their core services and, most likely, would be shittier (for a number of reasons). It would also lead to more OS bloat.
On the other hand, if every app was a web app they'd be able to track you even better than they do now (at least regarding human interaction with the app itself); it's easy to set up an outbound block on an application that isn't a browser. On the other hand, installed apps can establish persistence. Like how Logitech does with its options software (I fucking hate this behavior btw).
- Note that I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, just trying to enrich it
I understand that they're leveraging the browser SSL for authentication. But there are ways to do that without opening another tab inside of your browser and then just leaving it there. They could handle those calls inside of an app window that loads whatever resources they need, or makes secure CURL calls, or whatever. There are a lot of ways to implement it that would result in a better UX. Yes I agree with you, they're saving time by doing it the way they're doing it. But I disagree that the UX should suffer because the business management wants the engineers want to save time. There are paths that address both issues. They may require some compromise, but the end experience for the user is superior. Maybe my ideas are dated, but I have always strongly supported the belief that user experience should be one of the highest priorities when building user interfaces. I think the problem is that we now live in a world with thoroughly entrenched tech companies, so they put UX third, knowing the user has very few options.
LMAO Opera??? Jesus, Logitech. I love my Logitech mouse but this is reason enough to go with someone like Corsair next time I need one.
Something something, Linux?
Oh neat. We're back to the bad old days of "This website requires IE Version 6."
This still does not justify having to use a web app to plug peripherals to a PC.
Unify is so you can add several devices to a single USB dongle. The keyboard itself should work out of the box without using that website, that's an extra feature
OK that makes more sense. But still. I'm sure it would have been possible to do that with only local resources. This is just a security nightmare waiting to happen, even if you don't care about the privacy implications.
My guess is that they wanted a single interface with a single codebase that works on all OSes, as long as they run a browser that supports it.
Having said that, they could just ship a HTML file and do it all locally instead of on the web. I still don't quite understand why they changed this, as the feature used to be built-in to their app.
you can still do this without the webapp https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Logitech_Unifying_Receiver
Is that for Linux only or can you use it on other OS's? I don't own this device and probably wouldn't need it, but if I find myself given a nasty surprise like this after buying something I'd like to be able to bypass the bullshit but I'm also unlikely to be using Linux.
Logitech has supported pairing multiple peripherals to one USB receiver for quite a few years now. It's usually part of the driver package
They support opera but not firefox -_-
Isn't that because Opera is Chromium based?
Yeah, swapped to it about 10 years ago.
Oh i still remembered it having an in house engine.
I wonder what would happen if you changed your user agent and told Firefox to say it's Chrome
Nothing much, because the required code isn't in Firefox. For a change, there is a legitimate (albeit shitty) reason for the display of the failure page.
Would be an instant return for me. Last one I bought didn't require anything (MX Master 3S) and just works out of the box with any machine, luckily.
Is WebUSB on Firefox unsupported as in "not implemented at all" or as in "available solely on the nightly build with a specific about:config flag on"?
None, that's probably why Firefox is excluded in this case.
This reminds me that we need a windows port of Solaar (https://github.com/pwr-Solaar/Solaar)
VIA jumped onboard to this proprietary stuff, too: https://usevia.app
It's a real shame. Related threads for both Logitech and VIA:
I hated when via moved to using a web browser to remapping, since I find it hard to trust if the website is compromised. Fortunately my keyboard can do vial.
Vial has its own security issues it promised to solve but didnât necessarily. I think it still exposes the keyboard matrix activity to any software that asks for it.
This is probably the only thing I hate about my keychron now.
Was gonna replace my g502 with a new one but I'll be looking at other brands now.
I think it's a smart move. I like my G502, but have learned that ambidextrous mice are more for me. I get soreness if I only use my right hand for mousing all the time.
G502 might just be the most overrated mouse on the market. You'd be doing yourself a favor.
Soo... Bye Logitech, it was good while it lasted with you.
They've been going downhill for years anyway. This is just the last nail in the coffin.
Logitech has been making atrociously shitty fucking internet based software for pretty decent hardware since the first harmony remote back in 2001. Only buy their hardware if it absolutely will never require software of any kind imo
Every Logitech mouse and keyboard I bought broke in some way, their hardware is just as bad.
I've had a cheap Logitech Marathon M705 mouse for a long time and it's been fine. Batteries (2 x AA) last around 2.5 years for me.
I rarely use my windows laptop for anything but a few core tasks, I swear every time I went to do anything I need to make a new account for something -i needed to log into my laptop's inbuilt system dash then I needed to make an Nvidia account to upgrade my graphics card drivers just to play baldurs gate - which has it's own pointless launcher which wanted me to sign up...
One day they're going to give all the data to an AI and it's going to say 'why the fuck do you make people sign up for so much bullshit? None of this data is even slightly useful' then it'll launch all the nukes
Replace Nvidia driver installer with this, it's much lighter and no sign up!
This happens on Windows, right? What would happen on Linux, would the keyboard still work as it gets connected?
Yes. They are using WebUSB. That's only supported on chrome browsers for now. But it also works on Linux. The home automation community makes great use of that api.
What keyboard is this? I certainly don't have to do any of this. I plug the keyboard in and I'm done. Why do you need to go to a web page?
Actually I'm just using Bluetooth to connect to it and I don't use any unified receiver stuff.
So, the windows app doesn't work anymore? That's pure garbage.
Now you Windows users know the pain of Linux users.
I was hoping it would be us that stopped feeling the pain, not them added to our pain.
Is it to download the driver or for something else?
Well from some quick reading online, it's not for downloading drivers. It's literally an internet service Logitech is forcing its users to use in order to connect their peripherals, it's insane.
It's probably using WebUSB to put the receiver in pairing mode.
Logitech unifying recievers can work with any compatible product so you can add/remove devices to it. It used to be a standalone program to pair devices (looks like you can still download it) this replaces that program and the standalone option will probably be going away.
https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025297913-Logitech-Unifying-Software
This
I know Opera is Chromium based but according to statcounter Opera accounts for nearly the same % (actually slightly higher) overall desktop browser market share (Opera 4.48% : Firefox 5.96%)
Yet support for Opera but not Firefox đż
Disclaimer: Iâm a Firefox user.
Support for Opera wasnât a completely separate effort, it just happens to work because, like you said, itâs Chromium based. If it wasnât, it wouldnât be supported eitherâŚ
Its because they did not had to do anything for supporting Opera. They made their app work with Chromium based browsers and Opera is happened to be one. Firefox on the other hand requires additional development to be supported.
What's this? I've never seen anything like that on my Arch Linux.
Have you also built your keyboard from scratch?
I don't get the question, because you don't build Arch Linux from scratch either. That'd be LFS.
We live in a better world. :)
Yeah, nope. Pull that shit and I'll find something else to use, then make a youtube video of me smashing their shit in my driveway.
Add Logitech to the shit pileâŚugh
I've owned Logitech mice for years and they've all been solid. I have a Steel series keyboard and I'd like to move away from Logitech, but SteelSeries doesn't make a mouse with enough buttons. I use the G604 right now and it has the right amount of buttons for all the random productivity stuff, like assigning copy, cut, paste, paste as text, etc to buttons. SteelSeries mice either have a few buttons less than I'd like, or a moba mouse with like 30 buttons lol.
I haven't checked Razer but I haven't been thrilled with their previous designs and I just want to consolidate to just one piece of software. I've had a couple of one particular Logitech keyboard and a few of the LED would burn out and only display certain colors. And that was after a year or so.
Have a look at Roccat mice, the Kone XP (wired) or the Kone XP Air (wireless) mice might be what you are looking for.
I bought a Logitech mechanical keyboard which happened to be RGB. I did not specifically want an RGB keyboard but it was the one mechanical one that was on sale at the time, and all the cheap(er) mechanical keyboards seem to be the gaming ones these days.
Yeah, so apparently there is no way to natively control or even turn off the lighting from Linux and it always defaults to the most obnoxious scrolling rainbow light show. My home office which I use for working night shifts remotely looks like a goddamn rave, really easy on the eyes when I'm sleep deprived as fuck at 3 AM. Is defaulting to a soft white backlight or something that much to ask for?
Did you try openrgb? Just curious!
https://openrgb-wiki.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Logitech-Keyboards/
Training you to be phished.
Well I'm definitely not buying stuff from Logitech again
hmm, I usually end up uninstalling 3rd party apps and just go with standard MS drivers. too much useless bloat. last bought a generic Amazon mouse because it does what I need
I hate how everything requires additional software all the time (at least on Windows). Just give me proper drivers and no bloat, how hard could that be? Instead I need the G HUB for button mapping on my G903, I need Logi Options for the fn keys to work on my MX Keys, I need two of Corsair's shitty fucking apps just to get readings from my "smart" PSU and to control the fans on my AIO, I needed an additional ASUS program that was incredibly fucking shitty, just to control the case fans (eventually gave up and now I'm more than happy just going into the BIOS settings)....and don't get me started on the rgb. Close G HUB? Now my mouse is all rainbows n shit. Close Corsair whateverthefuckname? Now my corsair keyboard has all the wrong colors since somehow they don't map them correctly to the onboard memory (I got rid of that keyboard and got the Mx Keys instead because there was 0 upsides to having a mechanical rgb keyboard). Even on my razer laptop, if I dare not have synapse, I'm stuck with shitty rgb mode, and they don't even try to get white properly implemented into their RGB keyboards.
Companies have had the chance to work together on making these things more standardized, less bloated, more controllable and user friendly, but instead they choose the path of bloated and buggy software or web apps for things you should be able to do locally. I hate it and I'm never going RGB or fancy schmancy that requires custom software ever again.
I'm still using a Corsair Strafe kbd because I like backlit keys. nothing flashy. half the time it doesn't light up. reboot
also get rid of MS Windows and use linux also helps.
It's kind of hilarious they didn't just build this into the options app. But WebUSB gets a bad rap for no good reason.
WebUSB's only sin is that it's being spearheaded by Google. It's a useful technology that means theoretically you only need to write to one platform - the web. Let the browser deal with the different USB APIs for each OS (please
godgoogle save me from libusb). It's safer because of the browser's sandboxing, the permission dialog, the much greater likelihood they're using good standard TLS instead of rolling their own encryption, the list goes on.Personally, I'd rather visit a web page one time to set it up and then forget about it, than to have to install Yet Another Thing⢠that ends up running in the background, always checking for updates, reporting analytics back to the mothership, and constantly sucking up just a little bit of my CPU time even when I don't have any Logitech devices connected. (Sound like any other Logitech software you know of?)
I had a Pixel phone that I wanted to reflash back to the standard factory image. Did I have to download a special program, reboot the phone into bootloader mode, and perform an ancient ritual sacrifice like I do with a Samsung phone? No, I just had to visit the right web page and click "yes, allow this page to fuck up my phone". No lingering software left over on my PC, at least once the browser cache goes away.
Same with many Arduino and ESP32 projects, by way of WebSerial. If the page you're reading doesn't have to send you off to some other program and can just, right there in the web page, flash your device with the software it's telling you about, that's a good thing.
The web is becoming the application platform of choice. No App Store guardians to reject you from it. No 30% cut to the man. The list of reasons to have to install a program to your native OS is shrinking. Even 3d games can be done entirely in the web now. Rejecting WebUSB/WebSerial just means developers have to keep writing stuff for every OS (if you're lucky).
I've used the unification software a lot and it never required a browser for anything. That means that they went out of their way to change the way the program works and make it worse. This seems to be a pretty common practice these days. Companies take a perfectly good program and then actively make it worse. Just leave working stuff alone, damn it!
I'm surprised as well... What the fuck? Can't be that long ago I used it too.
Does this mean no more mice and keyboards from Logitech?
I did just buy a wireless pro and it should last about a decade but my G703 only needs a switch replaced and it could put in another decade.
And that's where we stand now, repairing good products until we can't anymore.
They have always had the best mouse design and it will be a very sad day, very far down the line, when I have to switch to something that looks like a fucking sci-fi toy.
I went through two G903s due to bad switches which would fire multiple clicks per physical click. Ended up buying aftermarket buttons for the second one and it's been great. Now I wish I had other options for mice; Logitech was the only brand to bring a very nice solution for wireless charging mats to the market, and as far as I know they've been unchallenged in that. I'm stuck in the Logitech ecosystem due to that powerplay mat, but I guess as soon as my G903 dies for good, I'm ditching it and trying whatever else I can, knowing full well it will be a downgrade coming from my current setup. It's a painful realization.
Oh dang. I have a Razer Blackwidow, and enough buttons on it have crapped out that a new keyboard is definitely on my list. Not shooting for another Razer (their build quality has really gone downhill :-/) so I had planned on a logitech since I like how the buttons felt on my previous keyboard (some logitech model, no idea which).
That's a hard fuck-no on logitech though.
Any good recommendations? I think I want to hop off the mechanical bandwagon - I really like the feel (and relative silence!) of scissor switch keys. Super bonus points for backlit (don't give a fuck about RGB, just want to be able to see it in the dark) and programmable keys.
Never used Corsair before, but tentatively eyeballing this guy: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/keyboards/ch-9226065-na/k55-rgb-pro-lite-gaming-keyboard-ch-9226065-na
If you are wanting shorter switches you could look for a keyboard using Cherry MX low profile switches or if you are wanting really quiet switches you could try the Cherry MX silent Red switches.
I quite like the Coolermaster keyboards as everything is done on the keyboard without the need for any software on the computer.
The reliability of dome and scissor switches are pretty abysmal compared to mechanical and often times it's just the odd one or two keys that break with no cost efficient way to fix them (aside from buying a new keyboard).
Quiet is a big factor. The blackwidow I have is the stealth edition, which is supposedly quieter than normal, but it's still pretty clacketty. I even bought a bunch of silicone o-rings to cushion each key, and it's STILL kinda loud.
I also feel like I have to push them way far down compared to a non-mechanical.
Scissor switches are like a little love tap and it fires, and are much quieter than any other type I've used. I'm just not super familiar with any peripheral company other than Razer (which has gone to shit hardware) and Logitech (which has gone to shit software),
it's not a strict useragnent filter, they're displaying this for all browsers that don't have the web usb api
firefox does not support it yet (support is planned afaik)Never heard of it, so had to look it up:
The WebUSB API provides a way to expose non-standard Universal Serial Bus (USB) compatible devices services to the web, to make USB safer and easier to use.
How could it be safer?? I don't want websites to be able to access my peripherals!
you need to confirm and select a device before a website can gain access to it.
there are multiple legitimate uses for this, such as:- stuff like Arduino ide (it can run and flash boards in a browser now!)
- hardware cryptocyrrency wallets (crypto sucks but whatever)
- usb key authentication (can be used in big companies or something)
Does it work if you click Cancel?
It works through Bluetooth just fine, I just never got it to work with the USB receiver (I was trying just now, still no dice). The app also works just fine if you click cancel.
IDK... the Unifying Receiver has always been a piece of shit
Yeah, why not just use Bluetooth, almost everything made in the last few years supports Bluetooth and it doesn't need a shitty proprietary dongle.
the device comes with the dongle that connects it. In an office environment with machines that do not have wireless or bluetooth, you are stuck. The only time this app is any use is when you get the help desk call and someone tells you their new mouse doesn't work and they have a bunch of neighbors (in cubes or offices) that have the same hardware.
Even the shity 1 cent aliexpress mouse does Bluetooth...
As I learned once I started using it with Bluetooth, Bluetooth devices don't work during POST, so I've had to have a secondary wired keyboard at hand for whenever I go into the bios.
wtf
What
The
Shit
I just use Redragon stuff. It just plugs in and works. Only time you need the software is if you wanna remap buttons or change the colors.
Which is why I use my mouse in onboard mode after setting it up with someone else's computer
I believe it is a trend in Chinese tech companies.
Thanks for the info
Trying to figure out my next move when my harmony hubs become a pain or stop working altogether.
Harmonys have required the internet since forever, which i get because the device database is constantly updating. I wouldn't worry about longevity though - we still use a 525 (the one from before they started limiting how many devices per remote)
There aren't any great alternatives yet (maybe ever) but Sofabaton U2 and the Skip 1S seem to be the current most popular replacements.
You will lose some functionality, unfortunately there's nothing to be done for it but wait and support the companies trying to go in the right direction.
Personally I like the Skip 1S haven't tried Sofabaton.
Logitech, no! đ
That's so frustrating and stupid. When I bought my latest mouse I went with a Zowie specifically because you can change the relevant DPI/polling rate functions with a button right underneath the mouse. It's simple. It doesn't require a proprietary third party application or website on my computer. And usually those things don't even work with Linux, not that I would want them in any OS.
This might be new. I've been using Firefox for years and have a couple of Logitech unified receiver devices. I don't remember chrome being involved. That would've pissed me off too.
Pretty sure if you fire up Logitech Options right now on one of your devices with a receiver plugged, in you should see this pop up. On a skim through Google, it seems like they added this about a month ago or so.
On Mac, I just tried it and that does not happen. I don't have a wireless keyboard though, so that possibly is the difference
sorry to drop in with an opinion, but I love my mouse festooned with buttons. Logitech and Razer have FUCKED UP MY DREAM
@sorebuttfromsitting @JGrffn Have a look at Logitech G600 mouse, 20 buttons plus shift, scroll wheel w/ tilt. Go nuts.
the G600 is exactly what I am rocking now, after the Razer equivalent failed. The hardware mouse itself is cool, but the software on windows is so lame. block that shizz via firewall asap. Can program it in linux as well.
If your keyboard is supported by ratbag, it might be worth using it + piper to configure your board instead of whatever this is
I kind of see the point in this.
Things I can do with Chrome'ish browsers:
- Install GrapheneOS
- Reinstall my Pixel phone.
- Flash ESPhome devices.
All this with a single browser, no 3rd party applications. I think it's called WebSerial and it's a neat feature. Quite sad that Firefox doesn't have it.
If you can really overwrite your operating system with your web browser, that sounds like a security nightmare.
There are multiple steps in between for installations, but yeah the attack surface is quite largeâŚ
You have to manually allow bootloader unlocking from within your phone's developer menu which is hidden by default, and then you need to boot your phone into the bootloader menu. Only then will the browser be allowed to interact with the phone, and even then you get messages on the phone that you have to confirm to allow anything to happen.
Nobody's accidentally going to replace the OS on their phone by visiting a website.
It's a protocol/interface for writing to USB. So whatever you can do over the USB cable with software, you can do from the browser.
Remebers me of IE with ActiveX. Except that Google has W3C under it's thumb and pushes this stuff a standard.
Does the old connect software still work? I remember it was a pain in the ass to find.
Honestly, I have no idea. Logi Options works just fine. I've used Bluetooth so far with no issues, but I don't get keyboard connectivity during POST, so I either need the Unifying Receiver or a second keyboard to plug in JUST to access post. I haven't ever gotten the receiver to work, and by the looks of it, I never will.
Always a good idea to have a wired keyboard handy.
đ
To those wanting to jump ship, Logitech isn't the only mouse/keyboard company doing this and they've been trending in this direction for a while (ever since they ditched Unifying Receiver for Logi Options).
Logitech G devices with the Lightspeed dongle still work with no pairing software (the dongle is pre-paired). You'll need the G software to change things like DPI though.
Ya most of them are good w/o pairing, but if for whatever reason you need to pair then the software has changed.
I use a G603 (wired) and MX Master.
Yeesh
So...I guess I will stick to wired peripherals then.
If I am understanding what this is all about ... Then I think, if they had put forth even a tiny bit of effort, they could have come up with a solution that doesn't require a website for installing.
You generally don't need to download the software to use the stuff and Logitech has been OK about that. The dongles are paired out of the box and bluetooth just works, but if there are problems (or button mapping) then the software is needed. Eg. some of them will pop up an installer when you plug in the device (I know my Razer keyboard has some shite software that boots at login.
@JGrffn That's the kind of thing that makes me respond "lol, no"
Spoof that shit yooo
Change your user agent to imitate Chrome broski
It doesn't work because Mozilla refuses to add WebUSB support to Firefox. Changing your user agent won't magically add it to the browser.
that's not how it works
You don't need to use anything web to set up your Logitech devices. You only need web if you want to sync your settings between multiple PCs. It's a very handy feature, by the way. Your hate is misguided here.
If this is just for syncing settings, why does it use WebUSB? Why use a browser at all for that?
To push settings directly to your dongle.
Thank you for this comment, I was wondering this. Still sucks it doesn't work on Firefox
Yeah, they could make it better.
At least they made it work with Opera and not Safari.
