"What MAGA all agree" is a fool's errand, like most universal consensus questions.
But here are a few high points:
- Some genuinely believe the rhetoric about how Trans/brown/non-Christian/etc. people are destroying the American way of life, jobs, safety, sports, the economy, and whatever they get pointed to at any given moment.
- Some are outright racists, bullies, and fascists, and absolutely love what Trump is doing right now.
- Many are just frustrated with their lot in life, and are willing to try anything (except personal action) to improve things.
- Many more feel like they're just a few paycheques or a small windfall away from living the rich life like Musk et al. As about 90% of lottery winners can attest, winning $10M or so doesn't make you obscenely wealthy, and it's still pretty easy to piss it all away. They have no concept of the difference between "rich enough to not work" and "rich enough to own multiple superyachts."
Most importantly, a large subset of this last group overlaps with the others, and believe that they only way for them to get ahead is by climbing over the bodies of others.
Causing a complete collapse of society to own the libs.
"That'll show em!" They said, proudly looking at the divet in their face where their nose used to be.
This is actually what many of them want: no government at all telling them what to do, but they’re safe because they got guns! And that’s where the thought process ends.
Add in that they think once they stop paying taxes they’ll be rich like Trump too.
Plus an serious dose of racism.
The complete collapse of society, but not to own the libs. It’s to set up a new political system controlled by billionaires as techno feudal lords:
https://piped.wireway.ch/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no%3Fsi%3Dfev-OzgZmzcUfsPW&t=1
They’re not even trying to hide it:
https://thenetworkstate.com/the-network-state-in-one-sentence
Reactionary ideology is all about protecting privilege by demonizing marginalized people. They believe in zero-sum rights and privileges: in their view, expansion of rights for another group inherently means a loss of rights for them.
Bingo. Conservatives believe that if someone outside their group is given anything, they lost that thing.
It's stupid simple, zero-sum game theory is the only thing they believe in.
Lemmy: "It's RACISM!"
No, it's far simpler than that.
It’s also racism.
Not a loss of rights, a loss of advantages. They want to keep them.
I've talked to friends that were very excited Trump won. Recently tried having an open conversation with someone that left my community afterwards over the conversations because I didn't come to his side.
They just believe it'll be better. What better? They don't know. They can't verbalize, because they're told it's terrible now and will be better.
They believe Trump isn't a criminal, didn't incite violence on Jan 6, the woke people are out to get them, etc. I've literally asked people to define "woke" for me when they use it that way. They can't. They don't know. They're not bad people, they're brainwashed at this point.
I agree. I’ve heard people say that they willingly voted for a criminal rapist huckster and I don’t believe that. They thought he was something different. They are fucking dumb, not evil.
The way it is playing out in my family has led me to have to totally reevaluate my perception of my own father.
He is a generally kind man. He stayed with my mom for two decades as she declined with Parkinson’s. He took good care of her when so many people might have ghosted.
But based on his inability to see the danger here to things he himself values, I can no longer think of him as a good man. He has always valued knowledge and reason yet he swallowed the cat-eating crap out of Ohio in spite of the clear bullshit of it.
He is Mormon and very faithful. So I don’t know what he gets out of this all, except that it has required me to grieve him before his passing.
He is not actually a good person I am afraid, but he is very obedient. Learning that distinction is very painful. He does not possess the moral clarity to know the difference between what is legal/popular and what is right.
I always idolized my dad as a child because he was in so many ways a good father. We will probably never speak again.
Sorry for your loss.
Religion sucks so much, especially the more dogmatic ones. Mormonism is gross.
One insight I would offer is that categorising people as "good" or "not good" may not be helpful. I suspect that your dad probably invests a lot of effort in being a good man, he's just unable to acknowledge that his perspective has been corrupted.
We judge ourselves by our intentions but others by their actions.
It's not wrong to never speak to him again, but maybe this will make the mourning easier.
Thank you.
Yes, I agree black and white categories aren’t the ideal way to describe people.
But there comes a time when nuance is used against the compassionate to normalize reprehensible actions. We are in that time now.
It is for these reasons that I cannot stand listening to NPR anymore. The ineffectual hand wringing and disingenuous ’liberal self-reflection’ is tiresome and we are well past the time for thoughtful think-pieces.
I shared with my mother, only yesterday, that I consider her somewhat of a bad person for voting for orange for a second term. I said that she could be forgiven for not perceiving what he is the first time (though it was obvious to anyone with limited understanding of the world), but after seeing him in action and voting for him again, she should be ashamed of herself. I don't expect the relationship to ever fully recover, as I will not forgive her for endangering my loved ones and all of us collectively.
I'm very grateful that my parents have never lived in the Utah bubble; they saw right through Trump in 2016, and, for the first time in their lives, voted for someone other than a Republican.
Keep in mind that Benson was hard right; he would have thought that John Birchers were leftists. He and his faction may not have led the church for very long, but they had a profound influence on it.
It can hard to see good people do bad things. To learn all that love came with limits
I have a brother who leans conservative, but not part of the cult. He is generally a good guy but a combination of being surrounded by conservatives and believing too much of what he reads online.
He’s an engineer at an old time manufacturer and especially condemns DEI hires. I have no way of judging whether they really do hire primarily for reasons other than merit, or if he has a limited perspective informed mostly by his peers, or if it’s really a generational problem as he’s part of the old timers being replaced by upstarts.
It’s probably partly generational. I mean the old guard got pensions and we get wtevs.
People who aren’t in leadership often have no idea how to judge actual merit anyway. Especially among engineers who often develop very myopic views informed by their tech specialties. I am often gob-smacked by the incredibly stupid ideas otherwise brilliant engineers have about how the world works.
So sadly folks like your brother are probably feeling validated for their racist feelings right now.
Validation of their feelings and a return to a mythologized past. Try having a reasoned political discussion with someone like this:
Well back in my day things were just better. America was the best and we didn't have to apologize for that. And the blacks and mexicans and what not didn't complain so damn much because folks were wired different back then and there wasn't nothin to complain about. Chuck Berry. You know Chuck Berry? Greatest rock and roller of all time and he was colored. Didn't nobody have anything to say about it, he was just damned good at guitar. Now the kids - black kids - listen to all sorts of damnable noise and them from the cities in gangs shooting each other up and corrupting good white kids in the small towns and suburbs getting them into drugs. We'll be lucky if we dont end up like another Chicago. And they whine and complain about racism, but we had a black president and look how that turned out. Granted he was a muslim and not even a citizen, but try tellin them that. I mean hell look at what Hillary did to all them folks at Benghazi - just let them muslims kill all of em, probably wouldn't have been politically correct to fight back. Dumb broad even wrote it all down - the emails. Had her dead to rights - she should've hanged but thats what you get when you have all those corrupt democrat senators in charge of the kangaroo court. And those democrat cities just keep letting illegals stay because they know they'll vote democrat - they don't care how many of them are raping and murdering women and kids long as they get their votes. Not even just the mexicans anymore, you got those communist gangs from venezuela taking over whole apartment complexes and the defunded police can't do anything about it. You know something was wrong with that Biden election - not just illegals voting but I saw on Fox that they were sending out whole reams of mail-in ballots to blacks and college kids and what have you. And then they take all the conservative ballots and conveniently lose boxes of them. Maybe Elon's going to fix it now since he knows all about those voting machines. Liberals voting for dead people too, but that's been on the news since Bush - I don't know why nobody does anything about that. Now you know what's really racist is planned parenthood - nobody hates babies, especially black babies, as much as planned parenthood. They kill more black babies than anything and the demonrats just keep convincing folks that its OK. Makes me sick that we kill hundreds of thousands of babies every year and i dont care what color they are. You know another thing? We knew which bathroom to use - we figured out a genius method. I'll tell you: drop your drawers and look down. Then you'll know. And you'll know if you should be on a mens or womens track team and if you should wear dresses. It's probably because all the kids have autism from the vaccines these days - now I guess they're mutants because of that COVID mRNA vaccine too - but not me. No sir. I'll stick with the DNA god gave me. That's probably why all the boys think they're girls now. Or cats and try to piss in litterboxes at school. People knew who and what they were once. They knew their place, worked hard, and didn't complain. Now if we can just get Trump in for a few more terms then he'll set everything straight and get rid of all those regulations so I can afford eggs again.
That is roughly paraphrased from my parents, grandparents, other family, some senile guy at the grocery store who wouldn't stop telling the cashier about Chuck Berry, etc. They don't have rational political goals, usually. These folks are genuinely operating on an entirely separate set of facts and assumptions to us. Their brains are co-opted by decades of counterfactual propagandized conspiracy theories, which are too numerous and ingrained to easily disabuse them of. They are faced with an increasingly complex world and are constantly told versions of events that are terrifying or disgusting to them and spoonfed the solution: fascism, piece by piece, until you get MAGA.
I couldn't even finish the paraphrased quote. I want to slap this nonexistant being who never actually said those things, because they never existed....but in a way they exist everywhere. Like I just screamed, knowing I can't reply to you, and put some facts in place, because you're not actually saying those things. You're showcasing the spirit of someone who does say those things. And I get it. I do.
I just also want to scream into a pillow.
It's exhausting. And trying to convince someone like that of anything is basically impossible. I have had painstaking, well-reasoned and well-sourced political discussions with many people like that. Funny thing is, I can almost always get the to agree to progressive or socialist policy goals. But, there are all these ideological land mines and, if you trip one, then they fall back into their defensive web of miscellaneous falsehoods and conspiracies.
Reads like satire.
If they like Chuck Berry, they’re gonna love Morgan Freeman.
I normally do not talk politics with people I know, but this one person said they like trump because: “all I know is when he was president, I did good financially”.
I tried to tell him that the government is slow to enact things so he did good because the previous president. He didnt want to hear that and dismissed it.
If that's all he knows he doesn't know very much.
My cousin said the exact same thing.
They don't know shit, but they still vote with such confidence. It's maddening.
Like most MAGA.
if you ask a hundred of them..
you will get a hundred different answers.
they voted because it made them feel good and addressed their anger. not for any rational reasons. it's why they are so surprised at what is going on.
they had NO IDEA what they were voting for or why they were voting.
Are they surprised about what's happening? I don't actually think they realize or care at all as long as it's their boy doing it
True.
One conservative acquaintance voted for trump to bring Jesus to the country and to stop abortion.
Another voted for trump because they worship money and believe that another trump administration will help him get richer.
It hurts people they think are lesser, such as LGBTQ and people of color. Racism and bigotry are very much alive in the USA. They would eat a shit sandwich if they thought a lib would smell their breath. Hate is all they know.
Owning the libs, getting to say r*tard, and grabbing them by the pussy
"draining the swamp, eliminating the deep state"
Yeah I agree, it's this kinda propaganda that they pump out there, and a bunch if other shit we've all seen. Lies. They lie, and like the asshats that owned the news papers when that's what people read, they own the social media now.
Nothing new under the sun.
What to do when they become the deep state? Will they purge themselves?
They want you to suffer. Their lives are miserable, and their media has taught them that it's YOUR fault. So now they want you to suffer.
Hint: the reason it's this way is that the elite control the media. If you're fighting with your financial equals on the other side, then both sides aren't getting together to fight the rich.
Hint: the reason it’s this way is that the elite control the media. If you’re fighting with your financial equals on the other side, then both sides aren’t getting together to fight the rich.
The focus of this cartoon is, I believe, an Austrailian(?) politician. I think it works though as "generic oligarch" or "Republicans."
Don't forget folks:
I believe the Australian is Rupert Murdoch, owner of Fox news and The Daily Mail
They will 100% sacrifice their own happiness and rights if they know it’s hurting people who live their lives is ways they don’t like.
This isn’t an exaggeration.
They literally want bloodshed and the world to burn
This is conservative vengeance
And everyone is going to suffer from it
I realized this during the 2016 election. People always say they are voting against their own interests, but their only real interest is to spite someone else. Hurting other people is a win, for them.
MAGA doesn't know.
They're fearful, hateful, instinctive idiots who are more afraid of being proven wrong than anything. The definition of ride or die.
Some migrants got harassed, they can pretend they set our allies "straight", dei got "dismantled, funding cut to orgs they don't like, pardons for j6 fed collaborators, security removed from political enemies...
As what Trump actually did for them as voting block, they are selfless, they need nothing as long as libs destroyed by daddy for the loolz
Many years ago, I was at a friend's house and his parents were watching Bush on Faux News. Friend said, "We're loyal Republicans. We'd rather have an idiot in office than a Democrat."
Edit: Before the inauguration, I got back in touch with another Friend who went to a few protests but converted to maga because he started listening to the JRE podcast and whatever the algorithm also recommended. We know the type of influence that jre guy has on vulnerable minds. The podcast host literally twisted his mind 180 degrees.
Edit 2: I'm not sure that I consider them friends anymore as they would rather have their guy in office and not care that people like me get screwed over.
Crabs in a bucket. They don't care if things get worse for them as long as they inflict the same suffering on everyone else.
Hurting their perceived enemies.
This really is the only right answer.
Pretty sure the common denominator is “owning the libs.”
It’s not just liberals that are voting against their opposition more than they are voting for the political candidates they vote for; the other side is largely doing the same. That’s why American democracy is failing: we’re so disillusioned with our own parties that we’ve been reduced to voting for them just to keep the opposition from power. Hence, no matter how we vote, we’re dissatisfied, but we tell ourselves pretty stories to make it all right. The only real winners are corporations, which have all of these clowns in their pockets.
I've been saying it for years and every time I'm told "but if you don't vote the lesser evil the greater evil wins!"
Well, as predicted, if you do vote the lesser evil the bar is lowered year after year until both are significantly more evil than before. Standards must be enforced. We need to demand candidates that are better than last year's, not just better than the opposition.
I agree, but I honestly don’t know what the solution is. Beyond blind revolution, which is inherently chaotic and difficult to predict, I don’t see a solution. The U.S. seems doomed to spiral in the same way we’ve seen other nations do so for the foreseeable future. It all depends on how this current administration plays out and how people react to it in the future. Americans are so uneducated and gullible these days that I can’t predict how they’ll behave (and I’m an American).
"We made people we don't like fucking miserable for a bit"
Ultimately the kind of person that goes all in on a cult like MAGA could lose everything to shitty policy or because their great leader started a war or smth -- But they'll still reason it was worth it because all those <Slur>s were put in their place.
I’m going to go on a less extreme take. They’ve been told from childhood they live in the land of opportunity, yet they work in dead end jobs or working fields.
They see money flying away every paycheck they live week to week on while being pumped propaganda (that people in suburbs and urban areas don’t see) that shows people who look different from them getting gov’t housing and getting programs funded with their tax dollars.
The same party they now demonize supports ridiculous looking gay parades that show a mentality they don’t understand, so they begin to hate. They wake up morning after morning in the same place with no change, and they stew and stew and stew.
So now they basically give up and see a hyper-masculine wannabe saying all the things against those who are different, and the long encrusted anger starts spewing out.
Most of the comments here are ignorant and hate filled against the wrong people. It’s not the MAGA supporters that did this, it’s the system. We need to stop polarizing ourselves with hatred and point the finger at those truly responsible. Not the poor (literallly) voters who are so dejected and living in decay that they just don’t give a rats ass anymore.
The more you hate the other side, the less you see the truth. The goal is to make you hate them. The goal is to make them hate you. You can’t define an entire person in a paragraph.
I think MAGA represents to Republicans what progressives like Bernie and AOC represent to Democrats. Republicans were able to reimagine their party into a form that isn't just going to follow the status quo that, like you said, has led to a stagnant existence for average Americans over the last 50+ years. And stagnant is probably a nice way of putting it, since buying power has essentially disappeared, on top of wages barely moving.
So Trump comes in, he says drain the swamp, and you hear that to mean the whole machine, everyone who, for the last 50 years (and some folks have been involved in that government for a good chunk of that 50 years, just perpetuating that status quo) has allowed the rich to get richer at the expense of the working middle class.
And so you toss on your blinders. You're not necessarily a bigot, but you believe social issues are a distraction from actual problems (i.e., ones that affect you directly), and you vote in a way that you hope will better your life. It's hard to blame someone, especially someone just exhausted from grinding through their shitty life, for thinking about themselves. It's not the right way to think, but I get it.
This is pretty much it, in my view.
Americans need to watch the Estonian-Georgian movie Tangerines before demonizing "the other side". Besides an anti-war movie, it's also about a movie about how two sworn enemies realize the other is also human.
A good clip to watch if you're not interested in watching the entire (relatively short) film
It hurts people who aren’t in their arbitrary in-group, and they believe that is good. They believe any affliction to them by way of those harming the out-group is a necessary sacrifice to cleanse society of the evil sin of not being in their arbitrary in-group.
The cruelty is the point.
Aren't you cute? Did you come up with that all on your own? Or are you simply, and mindlessly, repeating an easy little slogan? Any idea of the origin of that, context, anything at all? No?
I didn't leave reddit to come here and see children repeat slogans for upvotes.
What a shitty way to respond to an innocuous comment.
What's your problem?
If you're hard-right, might as well join Truth Social
How could we forget? We’re all here to please you because you ditched Reddit. Congrats on that by the way, see ya around! 👋
A MAGA I know told me this is all worth it because he doesn't want his son to know gay people exist and wants revenge on the people who told him he can't say "Merry Christmas" anymore...
So straw man arguments and a misunderstanding of sexuality.
Oooh, big words there fella. What are you, educated or something?
They get to say the n word with confidence, in certain situations, far from large groups of POC's, at their dive bars... surrounded by their christo fascist friends... where was I going with this?
They're too deep to take it back now they gotta go full nazi and act like everyone else is the problem
Check r/conservative and you get a fair idea.
I do. There is no information there i couldn't find written on a bathroom wall.
That makes sense, it's probably the same people writing both messages.
They're a cult, everyone within the cult implicitly agrees on the reality that matches what the leader(s) say regardless of what the leader does. There are many pipelines into the cult, gamers/incels, being an outcast for some reason, the general shitty state of things, etc they all lead to a desire for things to be better in some way. The leader promises this and everyone in the cult agrees that following the leader will fix these things somehow. If the leader does something contrary it is justified simply by saying that you as not the leader don't understand. There's 5d chess being played and while you're awesome and good with 4d chess because you're in the cult only the leader and some of the higher ups know the 5d strategy. Don't worry and trust the leader. Drink the Flavor aid, your kids and friends already did.
Some believe that we are reclaiming American greayness. That the tariffs are just china writing a big check to the usa. That majes feel like we are finally fighting back.
You have other that just feel good that dei, woke, sjw, litard, liberal, etc etc policy are goibg away. So society cab finally put good compient people in jobs and not be held vack by forced racial quotas.
You have other that love tge nazi salute stuff and really feel lije the government is finally working for them.
You have many who just feel good its not a democrat in office
It seems to me Trumps strategy is always to promise different, often contradictory, things to different people. Anti elite is the red thread.
By tearing the entire country down, I guess a lot of his base feels he is successfully fucking up the elites. They like him because his different and promises real change, and I guess that's what they are getting.
They get to be part of a cult of hate?
They think all of the gov'ment was corrupt and bad, so they're cheering for the destruction of all gov'ment.
Our explanations for the behavior of outsiders say more about our beliefs than theirs.
Even explanations that feel correct to us are almost certainly wrong in important ways.
There's plenty of scholarship on the various reasons people support fascism, that's probably your best chance for a full answer.
I personally think it's like a short circuit in the brain's reward circuit or something. If you can convince people that what they are doing is achieving a greater good, they will do an endless amount of evil in order to achieve it.
Those that wake up from this delusion often end up being horrified at their own actions.
It should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway:
If you are anticipating being enriched by the suffering of others, you are not in the right.
I assume it's "Sending all the foreigners back to where they came from" (even if they came from the US). Anyone who doesn't look, think, act or speak like them have to go so they can live in the utopia they think it will be once they've all gone.
There is no more consensus about anything between MAGA people than there is among the left. People are individuals and they have different values. Voting for a party/candidate doesn't mean they agree on everything. There's likely greater differences in views and values within the groups than between them.
the left
Quick reminder: America has no left. The Dems are centre-right vs GoP far-right (and counting).
This is very true.
Here in Missouri, for instance, voters went red but also passed a $15 minimum wage, required paid sick leave, and voted down an abortion ban. It's ironic, considering Democrats always insist that if they just get more
conservativecentrist they'll win elections.
they want to be openly fascist
From the replies, it seems that we’re all having a hard time pinning it down exactly.
All they have to agree on is that they are getting something they want, that "something" can be different from person to person.
"Look in his eyes, it's all lies. The stars after v be stripes have been swiped, washed out and wiped and replaced with his own face"
It was written about W but I think it applies again
OP is asking an interesting and important question. While I don’t claim it as definitive, there was an insightful article written in 2016 that attempted to address the question head on: How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind
Already some of you have gotten angry, feeling this gut-level revulsion at any attempt to excuse or even understand these people. After all, they're hardly people, right? Aren't they just a mass of ignorant, rageful, crude, cursing, spitting subhumans?
It feels good to dismiss people, to mock them, to write them off as deplorables. But you might as well take time to try to understand them, because I'm telling you, they'll still be around long after Trump is gone.
This is basically Lemmy's whole MO LMAO 🤣
Remember that they accurately believed the DNC were horrible. They stopped Hillary. They stopped Biden and Harris. Good for them? Kinda, not really though.
... We know Trump is worse. Far worse. But they saw a legitimate threat, a group of people who were not going to make their lives better, and they took some kind of action to stop them.
And then lots of bigotry. Can't forget that.
I’ve wondered this exact question. How does any of this evil fascist shit benefit the average Trump voter.
Trade tariffs just make things like durable goods more expensive.
Deporting migrant workers is going to make food more expensive.
Killing all references to Trans people doesn’t do anything but hurt the Trans folks.
Killing all references to climate change is just going to eventually destroy the whole planet (well just our existence on it.. the planet will be fine eventually).
Killing the Dept of Education is just going to make us all dumber.
DOGE is just a meme dept whose soul purpose seems to be to let Elon enact his revenge.
RFK2 gets in charge of all the countries medicine and vaccines and bans it all just in time for Pandemic 2, Electric Boogaloo.
So basically things get a lot more expensive, the rich get richer, lots of people die, and the world becomes a generally more shitty place. Yay!!! Let’s Go Brandon!!
It's not like these people are open to reasoned debate. The only answer is there is something broken inside and fuck if I know what.
Revenge. 🤷♂️
Why, the same thing everyone gets from voting: stopping the other side.
They say it all the time. You just have to hear, and more important, listen to them
About 70% of reps think the government deficit is too high. About 45% of Dems think the same. Both have been, interestingly, increasing yearly.
Widespread, 60% of voting age adults in USA think the government spends too much "on shit nobody cares about". My quote.
Because people want the spending on medical care, education, science, social security, helping the needed and so on. Polling shows it.
But this has to come at a cost.
Dems want a bigger state apparatus behind all this.
Reps want an efficient, smaller one behind this.
Interesting as well , a lot of people, like 40%, want more spend in security forces.
............. no one believes trump will deliver a smaller government. If they do they haven't been paying attention.
This use to just be a libertarian thing, too. So, you can say they are united in this cause but could I really ask any MAGA person and this is what they will tell me?
if you’re going to make that point you need to mention the pattern of unfunded tax cuts over the last couple decades.
Yes the deficit is way too high, but also yes funding is too low on important things like safety nets, human services, infrastructure, long term societal advance. Most importantly, yes the unfunded tax cuts focusing on the wealthy and corporation of the last few decades is the real issue
There are two levels of maga, the exploited and the exploiters.
For the moronic rubes who vote for it, it is purely about the bigotry. Their daily life is going to get fucked up in so many ways, but that is ok because minorities.
For the the psychos exploiting the endless maga train of morons it is pure grift.
I think this question's a tad premature, as it's only been two weeks, but in the short-term I imagine the major beneficiaries are the border cities along the southern and northern borders. I think there's also an argument to be made that it's objectively a good thing that Trump is making other countries commit to their own security in a bigger way, rather than depending on US resources. It was also pretty cool to see some actual positive news out of Palestine in recent weeks.
Other than that, it's the same culty shit we see no matter who's elected. Dems pretend their guy is a good president. Republicans pretend their guy is a good president, even when they're doing objectively atrocious things or demonstrate that they're not functioning well cognitively anymore.
It was also pretty cool to see some actual positive news out of Palestine in recent weeks.
The fact that you think that has anything to do with Trump shows how disingenuous or ignorant you are being. The ceasefire was reached while Biden was president, and the only thing Trump has done is reauthorize even bigger bombs for Israel.
The ceasefire was reached while Biden was president
No reasonable person thinks Biden was the reason the ceasefire was reached, as the genocide continued until the literal final day of his presidency, with his full support. There's a very good reason why he had the nickname Genocide Joe, and that reason is that he did everything to earn it.
I do like seeing that Democrats are pretending they oppose genocide now, though, even if they're only doing so out of political convenience.
But what are illegal immigrants doing that is bad? They pay taxes (sales tax, property tax via rent, and income tax if they have a stolen ID), they buy things, they contribute labor. We're spending money to deport and hold them. It's all a net negative.
If the problem is that they are undocumented, then document them. Give them work visas. They don't get the right to vote or have access to welfare systems with a work visa.
How many children of immigrants speak really good English? They usually translate for their parents in my experience. Which means they are assimilating to the culture. It also seems most time the first child might have a more ethnic name, the first grandchildren usually have more American names.
Illegal immigrants commit less crime per capita, which makes sense because if you are here illegally and do crime, you get deported after your sentence. They have a bigger incentive to not do crime.
America was built by immigrants, we're known as the cultural melting pot. When did it become such a big deal and so restricted to enter the country? Our birth rates arent high enough to sustain us forever, we need immigration. It just seems like we artificially made immigrating here harder so that people would inevitably sneak in so the capital owners had access to a cheaper workforce who won't speak out about injustices for fear of being deported.
I agree. I would like to see a more robust legal immigration system too, but I don't think that's ever going to materialize.
There are some issues that are a golden goose for the two ruling parties, and the Republicans make a whole lot more money with immigration being illegal than they do if we have an immigration system that actually works. That's money they can legally pocket by loaning cash to their campaigns at 20% interest, on top of taking "gifts" in exchange for lobbyist access, so they have a vested interest making sure it never changes.
With that said, this is what America voted for. We're stuck with it.
Along the northern border
Look, while most of the southern border rheroric is rooted in racism, I would say there is probably a bit of an issue there, just not nearly as terrible as these racist assholes keep pushing.
But Canada?
Are we pushing that Canada has a border issue now?
Do you think the dictator stuff isn’t alarming? Are you not made nervous by the attempt to determine the loyalty of LEO and the military to Trump rather than the USA?
No. The judiciary's acting to counter it, as it is designed to do.
Also, fascism is and has been a fact of life in America for decades. The Patriot Act is two decades old. Open torture in America is two decades old. Ferguson was ten years ago, and nothing changed. (except militarization of police got worse and now we have cop cities) Despite vast opposition to the genocide in Gaza, Biden made sure Israel got their WMD's. Most people in America are working 2-3 jobs at upwards of 100 hours a week for the privilege of barely surviving in a roach-infested studio. School shootings are not only a more regular phenomenon, but now people want it to be legal for people to 3-D print their guns and have them be completely untraceable. Abortion is criminalized in Idaho and soon it will be in the majority of the US states due to Biden's failure to act.
It's hard for me to pretend that things have suddenly gotten worse when they've already been bad for decades and it's just that half of the population is always willing to ignore it because their guy is in charge.
