The "man or bear in the woods" question is obvious ragebait. Thinking people don't entertain hyperbolic hypotheticals that are proposed to sow divisive rhetoric.
The gender war is a psy-op proxy for the class war.
::: To be clear, I'm a proponent of market-socialism economically who wants a functional federal republic like we're supposed to have on paper. I am not a "tankie", nor do I want anything to do with them.
When I say "class war", I say we fight it with the ballot, and a gun if it gets ugly to the point of no recourse (that is still far away, thankfully).
I mean, what the fuck are people gonna do against Predator drones with Hellfires? Be vaporized as cannon fodder? We'd be gullible rubes for the whims of the "enlightened LeAdErS of the People's Revolution", that's what. :::
Pretty much.
In hiking groups, certain people bring it up, and it's the kind of people you expect.
The rest of us just go hiking
There's also a TON left unsaid in it. Is the man armed? are you armed? Is it a hiking path? Is it the middle of the forest? Are you camping or just walking? what kinda bear? is the bear just walking or is it attacking?
You're overthinking it; those questions are totally irrelevant to the point. Though, to be fair, the question doesn't exactly specify this at face value.
It's really just a thought experiment: would you rather take your chances, alone, with a random bear/man in the woods? You don't get a weapon. You dont get to choose which man or which bear, or what they do. It's a gamble.
I think in this situation it is probably more important to look into why more than half the population chose Trump.
Probably because most voters want someone that reminds them of their dad as the President.
wants to have sex with them?
Or discourse like that could be why young men are choosing the right.
They're so wrong to do so in such a vindictive way.
... but that doesn't mean they're not doing it. People are petty, including men.
I'm honestly not sure it's even vindictive. Maybe in some cases, it's a big complicated issue.
We get such different news in the age of algorithms, they may not even see it as vindictive. I think it's easy to pull back from a group that paints your identity as a villain, and I think that's likely some of it.
They are choosing it because Theo Von / Shane Gillis / Tony Hinchcilff / Dana White / Joe Rogan / UFC / Russian propaganda / random MAGA streamers.
All of whom thrive on stuff like man vs bear discourse
I think it's too complex to attribute to one thing, I think you're right that the alt right social media pipeline is real and an issue.
I'm just saying I understand not identifying with a group who trash an identity a person belongs to. They just disengage. Nobody likes being put into a box that paints them as a villain.
Just my opinion of course, the left (as a social group) can examine the current discourse and try to adjust, maybe like framing it as a class struggle or a liberty struggle, or continue being divisive and risk being overridden.
Trump learned how to win friends and influence people from Carnegie. People just want to feel heard, doesn't matter what you say back to them. It's essentially slight-of-hand, but for feelings and emotions.
All those other guys know a cashcow when they see one.
This is a graph showing that a fair number of them actually just chose the bear.
That statistic makes sense when considering less of the liberal and/or left turned out while the right held their numbers. Guess the right is more effective at getting their youth to participate in the system while the left in this age range are more disenfranchised every generation.
Wait... didn't he win with 57%?
Meaning women were more likely to vote Trump than men?
The cohort age 18-29 as a whole were under the national average. But men aged 18-29 we're just barely under the national average
while women were massively under the nation average.edit although true it can't be inferred from this graph alone
When Harris was nominated, I told a friend of mine that my biggest fear was it was going to energize racists and sexists because she was black and a woman. I though she was great candidate, but the level of racism and sexism in this county is beyond insane.
Well it's a good thing your worries were unfounded then because Trump got 72 million votes in 2020, and as of right now he's got those same 72 million votes in 2024. 10 million or so democrats sat out this election compared to 2020 and that's why Harris lost.
He should have lost a few million considering the sheer number of his supporters that earned Herman Cain awards.
Either that or states aren’t doing mail in voting since we’re not in the middle of a pandemic, so democrats had to work and didn’t get a chance to vote.
It was actually because they gaslit people into believing that Biden was a competent candidate until like 3 months before the damn election.
THEN didn't even hold a primary.
And then let Kamala Harris completely train wreck the campaign and say shit like 18-24 year olds were stupid (notice how most of those votes from men for trump were around that age?) And sure, the video was taken out of context but she did say it and these dumb fucks didn't care what the context was when they see that clip droning on their TikToks and shit.
America does have a racism and sexism problem but to tell yourself that that is the only reason she lost this election would be lying to yourself in a very major way.
I did vote for her too, btw. First time I ever voted. But Jesus Christ the democrats just seem like they don't want to win at this point.
Thankfully it looks like that did not happen. So far Trump got less votes than he did in 2020. It's just that Harris did not manage to get the democratic voter base off the couch.
People keep saying this but they haven't finished counting the votes. In California alone only 55% of votes were counted and he had 4,000,000+ votes there. The remaining votes could easily put him past his 2020 total.
You want this to be true because it's a simple explanation, just like Republicans. Stop being so immature and look at the actual dogshit platform she ran on and think again. You just defined confirmation bias in your comment. Doesn't make it true
This isn't going to be popular, but part of the problem is not acknowledging that 42%. It's fucking insulting, frankly. Plenty of women voted for the bear.
EDIT: In light of reports of tons of guys saying "your body my choice" and shit, I actually regret writing this & everything below.
Like, what the fuck, boys?
52% of white women voted for trump.
Chances are that many of the people crying about men voting trump, are part of a demographic that mostly voted trump.
Trump apparently won the popular vote anyway. Most of everyone who voted, voted trump. But let's focus on men and then be surprised that young men who are very insecure about themselves anyway, feel attacked by the left and choose the right.
Please don't get me confused, I don't think it's good this many men voted for The Stain. Also, 52% of WHITE women, but I bet if you combined ALL women, that number would drop dramatically.
My broader point is, IMO, that 42% never gets talked about so why would it grow, yeah?
Or, put another way, when I talk about women, who are my allies against the Patriarchy, I speak of why I like them (because I do, I LOVE women). They are resilient, strong, resourceful, grounded, etc, all the good stuff, and I try to include all women in that, they are my allies. I try NOT to focus on trad wives, manipulators, "gold diggers", abusers, weirdos like MTG or Caitlyn Jenner , you know, bad people (and there are plenty).
But when I hear about men in the ally space, it feels like I hear all about how awful and dangerous we are and that's it. And there's ALWAYS this group of guys willing to go along with it and point and go "yeah, we totally suck! You guys saying we don't are the real problem!" But, how is that motivating to anyone? It makes me upset, anyways. Maybe I'm just a big emotional baby, who knows?
Anyways, I'm blabbing. Bad habit of mine.
WHITE WOMEN CHOSE THE DUDE THIS ELECTION AND THE DUDE WAS TRUMP
Yeah, but there are a LOT of white women in the south.
Absentee ballots are cool and all, I'm sure southern husbands and fathers love being able to 'check everyone voted properly'.
You know, I read shit like this and even though they had their fuckups, I recognize my parents did some major things right. We had family voting might, amicably discussed the candidates and issues, and then they showed us you could knowingly vote differently and still be a loving family.
Open fascists weren't on our ballots until recently which made disagreement significantly more palatable. Talking about the rest of the ballot tho, honestly on some measures I don't care that much and others in my family do. I'll gladly lend my voice/vote on issues my family cares about if they'll do the same for me (and they have).
"My house my votes"
God, the whole of Lemmy is such a meme right now; the majority of women voted Trump as well!
Lmao!...
Not true, but nearly half of them did
The majority of White women voted for him 53% to 45% (not sure what percent of those are in the evangelical christian demographic).
Women overall voted against him 53% to 45%. Funny how those numbers were the exact opposite. Anyway it was a smaller margin than Dems were hoping/expecting from women.
source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls
no, 20 million Americans withheld their votes.
that greasy orange fuck actually lost votes.
2020 had some of the easiest voting rules in US history, with universal no excuse mail in.
Democrats were more likely to mail in votes than Republicans. So (largely Republican) states cracked down on mail in voting shortly after the election.
The participation plunge you're seeing is largely the result of that decision
ya, but what if you pretend that women are some monolithic left-wing force that totally would take the bear, instead of people? the bear v. man is literally a left wing bubble thing.
Its weird that the same group of people are ignoring women's ability of independent thoughts and actions are the same ones saying (not unreasonably) the other side is dehumanizing women.
Yeah but only 39% of bears voted Trump.
I think the ones who didn't vote for Harris are desperately rationalizing to blame Trump on somebody besides themselves.
the majority of women voted Trump as well!
White men and women specifically
Mine is one race you could probably justify a hate crime on.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah no. Either Musk or Putin learned how to hack without detection. It's WHOLLY unlikely that majorities of women were polled, a gender gap was polled, and somehow that all magically disappeared. That is a STRONG indicator of hacking.
Either you don't understand what you're replying to or you don't understand statistics... Or you don't understand a lot of things.
So I guess you voted for Trump
Hah, are you serious...?
That seems bang on average for the entire country. If anything that suggests to me that men in that age group are less susceptible to trumps influence since other age ranges of men were in the 60s and 70s
Cool, now do women!
I mean, it sounds to me like men also chose the bear. Why did they choose the bear, is it because they're stupid? Probably not, they likely just thought their odds were better with the bear.
Dropping the metaphor, and looking in the cold light of day, those young men saw a better future under Trumpler than Harris. Articles signaled this well before, and nothing was done to address it.
Will their future be better - probably not. Can they be made to think their future is better, that's a tough one. Remember, you can trick one group of people into thinking they have more rights by stripping the rights of those around them.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Well, there's still 42% who voted for Harris. What's wrong with them?
Nothing is wrong with them, but I get not wanting to gamble with thos odds.
Especially when, according to the national park service, "when bear encounters do happen, they are most often nonviolent". So if you had to gamble...
Are you saying that theres >42% chance a bear will be on your side in the wilderness then?
That makes no sense. By all arguments taking "a man" is prolly the far better choice anyways, people are just stupid.
There's a 100% chance that "the bear" is a fucking bear
Theres at least a decent chance "a random man" is an asset to survival and your odds of success go up instead of down...
There's no scenario where choosing "the bear" improves your odds of success >_>;
That is women literally choosing the bear (by not voting or who voted Trump, same thing).
Trump isn't the bear you dolt. He's the guy in the meme.
What is everyone talking about?
That meme is kind of a engramatic shitshow. We should stop referencing it.
Check the statistics for white women :)
Yeah, i think i'm swearing off white women too. It would be tough because i'm white as fuck but i'm considering it.
If no woman will consent to a guy like that, he’ll just vote for the candidate who promises to abolish consent
I love how so many men in the comments are butt hurt by this comparison. Almost as if it hit the nail right on the head.
You are aware that 52% of white women voted for trump and that he won the popular vote by nearly 5 million votes (72,656,451 for trump, 67,978,280 for Harris) between both that is 140,634,731 votes. So 1% would be 1406347.31. so trump won by about 3% popular vote.
Blaming specifically men and exclusively, is what pisses them off.
America is sexist and racist.
Maybe compare similar demographics, because woman between 19-29 didn't. At least not in the states where it matters (because the popular vote doesn't matter for the US election).
How many Trump voters do you imagine are here?
2020 election.
Its cultural, men are more likely to be Republicans. One day this will change
I don't know about that. We have to remember that people just didn't come out to vote. Trump's base is Trump's base. It's unchanging. People didn't come out to vote, it's not that Trump flipped people.
This is the real answer. Dems moved right again so their progressive base stayed home.
sorry i wasn't clear at all. but ive seen alot of mention of gender and i feel the polling from 2020 disproves this as its not massively changed.
I am both disappointed and not surprised that half of young men voted for him
Half of everybody voted for him. This is such a ridiculous post, those are barely off the numbers for the whole election. Which is ridiculous, but why single out this group?
"Still deciding which minority is to blame" -The Onion.
Gotta be pissed off at someone, I suppose. Some blame leftists, some blame Latinos, some blame men.
That's just not true. I'm waiting to see final numbers, but (just like every election) around 1/3 of those eligible bother to vote consistently. And half of them voted for Trump. The undemocratic Electoral College didn't help, but apathy won him the White House. And it may just cost us our democracy...
Just give up humans, you have no future, you are not viable as a species.
The elusive .ml concurrence
If there isn't a movie yet where a woman meets a strange man in the middle of the woods and he starts acting creepy and she gets scared, then she sees a bear and decides to chance it with the bear... and then the bear runs past her and mauls the creepy guy-
Well there should be.
We need a cocaine bear 2
Fuck.
It's amazing how I've never ever seen a single thread on this metaphor and not seen at least two to three male users get furious and thus prove the metaphor 100% correct. Not once. Every single time. It's like catnip they can't resist it.
no, women chose the man (Trump)
That is not in agreement with exit polling, what is your source?
Frankly at first I was angry at those who chose the bear, but after learning the majority of young men are republican I blame them less and less.
And this is why I choose the tree, you don't even ask why, you just react
plot twist they actually choose Trump
Correct me if im wrong, not American;
People in your family can know if you register to vote as a dem o rep right? I suspect that if voting registration was anonymous like normal countries a lot less white women would have voted for trump
Registration doesn't require a party affiliation.
Party affiliation doesn't require voting for the party you've affiliated with.
Who/what you voted for is anonymous.
Oh okay, now it makes more sense
You don't have to be registered under a specific party I think. I'm not American, but you can register as an independent. And you don't have to vote for the party you're registered for. Actually I have no idea why you even register for certain parties in the first place
It's so you can participate in primary elections for that party. Some people who vote Dem in the general election will sometimes register as Republican so that they can vote for spoiler candidates in the Republican primary. There's not enough people doing it for that plan to really have any impact though.
But the same logic applies if you are trying to hide your votes from nosy family. Family members have enough info on you to be able to look up your party registration so if you are afraid of them causing drama, you can register as whatever party the rest of your family is registered as and then vote for the other side in the general election. The actual votes you cast cannot be traced back to you... Which can raise other concerns like not being able to verify if your vote actually counted.
registered maybe, but whether dem or rep is not chosen
I'm in California, and the only things party registration seem to affect are (1) (important) which primary you vote in and (2) (not so much) what type of political spam you get, not the amount.
That is why people in general are abandoning the democrats
I don't understand how that tracks. Please elaborate.
No
Edit: Well I should explain why I won't. I don't want to get screamed into being another person abandoning the democrats.
Your team needs some serious work on their messaging.
The first sentence is a moot point to get people to think. I'm not american.
Edit 2: Yeah, should've stuck with "No"
fun fact: if the bear lets you go 1 out of million times (i pulled this number out of my ass), it is statistically safer to meet a man as long as you don't meet more than 16 of them... 😂
a whole 7% polled. truly representative/s
Well of it is randomly selected, then i think it is?
and the other 93% are chopped liver because they dont register. kayo, pectate
Pretty sure the bear thing is the reason why at least some young men voted like that. Generally hating on men seems so widely accepted to me that I don't even blame anyone who decided to vote for Trump out of spite.
Bullshit. EVERY group gets "hated on." It's just that the Venn diagram of powerful rich assholes and men (especially white) has a massive overlap, and they use and abuse the power they have without hesitation nor consideration for anyone but themselves. They deserve to be hated upon (and this is coming from a white guy), while so many others they shift blame to don't.
I agree about the overlap but why generalize a whole group like this? Why needlessly antagonize people when something this important is happening?
Let's just keep shitting on men collectively, surely that will help!
We aren't shiting on men collectively, we are shiting on men who voted for Trump.
It's not all men, but as an American man, there is a lot of trash in this country.
Shit on men. Call the conservatives nazis when it’s the Black, Asian, and Latino voters who carried this election. Repeat quotes out of context. Spread lies. That’s how we get more people on our side, right??
No worries. The people in question don't even know Lemmy exists. This is just venting in the wind.
You remind me of "Elevatorgate" scandal. Remember these days, you'll see why in a few years.
Men are getting some hate when every other group in the country gets more hate by the majority and then men lash out when they do the majority of the crimes. They have held all the power by majority for all of known history. So they lash out.
The abuser is crying because it gets a bit of its medicine now it wants to actively harm others more. Be better and you won't be hated. I don't have problems with minorities and women why I support them. It's called being one of the good one's and having empathy. I understand why someone would be apprehensive when I walk in the room. I could sell them out and jail them or SA them and get away with it for all they know. Earn trust.
Where have I heard “one of the good ones” before?
