The firearms subreddit is really unhinged
The firearms subreddit is really unhinged
Running out of reality to blame, they got to make stories.
Man if only it was actually like how cars are regulated.
Required training, tests, insurance needs and has to be safe for others.
If only cars were actually regulated like we pretend they are...
What an interesting concept. Insuring the gun owner could really have merit. Then you’d have a company who would be very heavily invested in the responsibility of the gun owner, as well as needing a record of firearms owned to be insured.
You'd also have pressure on firearms manufacturers and regulatory bodies because the insurance companies covering the owners would do everything in their power to shift blame away from their customers, so as to avoid paying out on the policies. Suddenly you have a lot of money behind preventing accidental discharge, etc
Right, and my life insurance should be able to hold a claim against their insurance, or everything they own. That way my insurance doesn’t go up with their recklessness and my heirs don’t need to deal with the legalities
You're just creating a tax on the poor for them to practice a constitutional right. Insurance providers 1. Aren't going to pay out anyway, that's their whole thing, so much like health insurance, it's money being thrown away every month, and 2. You're adding another middleman from an industry most people think is greedy/corrupt AF, and why would that ever be a good thing? Plus, you know damn well once the insurance companies get involved, all of a sudden minority gun ownership numbers are going to drop because, mysteriously, all of their premiums shot up overnight for totally
racist/homophobic/transphobic/misogynisticunknown reasons.I'm all for requiring more training, or licensing, background checks should be required for every gun sale, I'm just saying this to show I fully support gun control measures.
Require more training, but it needs to be made affordable. Every gun control bill is just banning firearm models, or limiting magazine capacities, or whatever. None of them every talk about subsidizing firearms training for those who need or want it. Even my blue state only requires one 8-hour class and one live-fire test to get your conceal carry permit, and the instructors even talked about how people ask about taking further training, but when they hear the cost and time (almost all the classes require taking time off work, which some can't do) involved, they just say they can't afford it and they'll just watch YouTube or whatever.
Edit: Not sure how "creating an unnecessary monetary barrier turns a constitutional right into a constitutional privilege for the rich, all while enrichening a corrupt industry that will absolutely fuck this up" is such a controversial take, especially when I've added that training courses should be mandatory and subsidized so that finances aren't a barrier...
I agree. Gun insurance is the future. You want to have your guns? Fine. Underwrite the risk.
No thank you. Guns ownership is a protected right under the constitution and can not be controlled to the degree that car ownership can.
Yes but... A lot of shooters would not seek that insurance. Steal guns, ghost guns, or simply not give a fuck about the law since they're going to break it anyways.
In my opinion, the root issue is a moral/mental one. Do the shooters believe they are killing? Are they "saving"? Are they not real people? Etc. If you don't believe people are real, you're not really hurting anyone.
The required training for a driver's license is a bit of a joke.
I'd rather a joke with a little training and safety classes to lower your liability insurance than the current solution of ignoring the problem
Sadly depends on the state. Would also love if we did more like other countries for driving instruction. Although would need more public transport before that would possible
God I wish we could apply that to every right, y'know? Like, wouldn't it be great if we could test people before they could vote, so that we knew that they understood the functions of the different branches of gov't, the limitations, the history of legislation, the origins of common law and where our style of government comes from... It would be so wonderful if rights weren't really rights at all, but were privileges only given to the most well educated and intelligent people.
Maybe even some literacy tests.
Oh, or if you needed a license and credentials in order to speak in public! That would be awesome! Or if you needed to be an attorney to assert your right to remain silent!
Wouldn't be great if the police could just search anyone for any reason (or no reason) at any time unless they have obtained a privacy permit? Think of how many criminals they could catch, including people who shouldn't have guns, if they could just set up road blocks and strip search everyone who comes through (except those with permits, obviously). For good measure they should make us all take off our shoes too.
Gun ownership is a right protected under the 2nd amendment. If cars had been around during the revolutionary war then perhaps there would have been an amendment as well. But as it is cars can be regulated to a larger degree as they are not a protected right under our constitution.
Washington State just legislated a legal requirement that all gun purchases must include proof of a completed gun safety course. Unfortunately in typical government fashion, they did it in the stupidest way possible. It's an online class that can be finished in 5 minutes, you have to bring printed proof of it every time instead of storing the status somewhere, and there's no exemption for law enforcement, military, or scouts. It would be great if it was an actual gun safety course and they exempted people with a proven history of gun safety training.
You may think you want guns regulated like cars, probably because you heard it somewhere and thought, "yeah, that seems reasonable".
But if you stop and think about how cars are actually regulated vs how guns are actually regulated, I think you'll maybe see that it's perhaps not so reasonable an idea after all.
First and foremost, guns are already regulated in significant ways that cars are not. For example, requiring background checks, prohibiting purchasing/owning by particular groups of people (e.g., felons, drug addicts, domestic abusers), and numerous places where you're not allowed to take them.
None of those restrictions apply to cars (though maybe they should), so "regulating guns like cars" implies rolling back those restrictions on guns. (Otherwise it wouldn't actually be "like cars", would it?)
Second, a lot of restrictions on cars are for common use, and the minute you fall outside of that, many of those regulations don't apply.
For example, in many (maybe the majority of? Not sure) states, the whole license/registration/insurance requirement only applies to vehicles that are operated on public roads (of course, your bank will require insurance if you finance, regardless).
So a farmer could buy a brand new pickup for cash, sign an affidavit saying it won't be operated on public roads, have it delivered by flatbed truck to his farm, then his 14 year old kid could drive it around all day with no license, registration, or insurance, and everything is (potentially, depending on the state) completely within the law as long as it stays on the farm.
There are parallels that can be drawn with gun purchases for use on private property, but hopefully you get my point by now.
So for sure, if you want more/better gun regulations, then by all means, advocate for that. But please don't suggest that we regulate guns like we do cars because that's a terrible idea.
When people say "regulate guns like cars" all they mean is to add the requirements of a licence, tracking ownership and sale, and proof of training.
It's a short hand, meant to be snappy, like all political phrases (BLM?). So next time you see the phrase be sure to respond to that argument because that's all anyone is really talking about when they use that phrase.
Fuck the NRA.
Required training, tests, insurance needs and has to be safe for others.
You didn't make a point. You talked about some unrelated things with operating vehicles on private roads, which is nonsense, because plenty of laws still apply to the manufacture and sale of the vehicle initially, and also all laws of civil liability still apply to it.
Funny comparing guns to cars. I need a drivers license to operate a car, something I will be tested for and have to renew regularly. A car has a registration number that is registered to me and a license plate with the state that gets renewed regularly. Also insurance is required, the cost of which goes up if I'm irresponsible.
Owning and driving a car is not a Constitutionally protected right.
Yah and the right to bear arms is not absolute. You can't and shouldn't be able to own just a bunch of rocket launchers. Just like with the first amendment, you still can't threaten people. You can have sensible laws around rights.
Also, running the country off ideas people had hundreds of years ago is so backwards.
...killed 10 people on the interstate.
Regardless of the rest, this is like saying that guns would be confiscated because someone shot 10 people at a shooting range.
If it were a regular occurrence that people were driving cars through classrooms, like it is with shooting into them, then the conversation around regulating cars would look a lot more similar to the one about guns.
The biggest difference is you need to have a license for a car and it needs to be registered, and in most places you have to have insurance to cover any damage you may cause. None of this is true for gun ownership, despite a car being nearly required for life in the US and a gun being a toy for most people, or at best a tool that is used for one particular job.
The biggest difference is you need to have a license for a car
I agree and made a similar comment on this post but you can buy a car without a license in every US state. It's the driving part that requires a license. It's a nitpick but still applies given the conversation around gun control is focused mostly on the purchase side of things.
About 45,000 people are killed in motor vehicle crashes each year, and that's nearly double the number of homicide--which includes negligent homicides--committed with firearms.
Take the average person who will cause a fatal car crash next year, and ask them what they use their car for every day.
Now take the average person who will shoot someone to death next year and ask them what they use their gun for every day.
I enjoy and own guns. Ive used them for hunting, I’ve used one in self defense (no shots fired). Sensible laws regarding guns are just fine by me.
Yep, I own 4 pistols and 1 revolver, and I still think we need a lot more gun control.
To drive that car, she had to take a class, get experience under an instructor/valid driver, take a paper test, take a practical test.
This is not the gotcha you think it is. As a gun owner, I'm for responsible gun control, and this meme is anti-gc.
Not trying to compare these two things, but as a German it always stroke me as odd that many Americans will go to any lengths in order to defend their right to bear arms, but they all totally accept the fact that there's not a single highway in the US without a speed limit.
In Germany, it seems to be the other way round. Noone really cares that guns are strictly regulated but most people will fiercely oppose the introduction of speed limits with the same level of fanaticism of American gun nuts.
Tbf, the limit on how many bullets you can legally fire (outside of defense of life or great bodily injury) in public is "0" so technically there is a limit on that too.
Yeah I've always kinda questioned why we have speed limits on highways because not only is the entire point of a highway is to go as fast as possible but there's also very rare actual enforcement with the few speed checks being the cause of accidents thanks to people braking to 50mph when they were going 80mph also we have laws dictating that if everyone is doing a faster speed then the limit you can get pulled over for doing the limit
Yeah I've always kinda questioned why we have speed limits on highways
So the police have somewhere to find extra funding.
A speed limit encourages everyone to go a similar speed and sets the tone to a safeish speed. How fast most traffic goes on a highway does vary wildly by region, but at least from what I've seen regionally, its largely informed by the construction of the highway and the speed limit. Lower limit means lower overall speed while a higher limit leads to a higher overall speed
As an American who has lived in Germany, I’ve found the lack of speed limits to be more of a fantasy.
Sure, there are stretches of the autobahn where there is no speed limit - but they are comparatively short. The constant construction destroys any ability to make true use of the autobahn. Similarly, the public tends to drive at 110-120kph - despite the lack of speed limit. Overall, a disappointing experience.
To compare, the highways in the US may have speed limits of 65mph, but the traffic moves at 75-80mph in the slow lane (NJ, NY).
This argument is bad and you should feel bad
Funny, the only politician I've ever heard actually talk about taking away/seizing guns was Donald Trump
They must all really hate him for that, right?
Donnie banned the bump stocks!!!
But for real though, maybe we do also get rid of cars? Why not build more public transit and less drunk driving accidents? The only especially bad part of this is the police.
How does one drunk driver even kill 10 people before dying themselves?
Drive into a basketball court
Or a bus. Or sets off a big chain reaction crash
Funny enough most drunk drivers survive. Ragdolling instead of tensing up. The macabre of life.
Actually pretty easy; a car swerving around and being a danger can often pass others by because those others took evasive maneuvers to avoid them...which caused them to crash into yet more vehicles.
I'm up for banning all cars slowly.
Luckily there is not a word in the constitution about em!
Right? Good policy means you look at issues and try to fix them systemically.
I don't think cars should be removed at gunpoint, but if we could have a more robust and clean public health transportation system which would naturally phase out cars, I'm for it. Give us fucking decent high-speed rail.
And for the guns, at minimum give people health care including mental healthcare
make up stories
It's an analogy, that's how they work.
And it's not a really flawed one. But the big difference is that Cars are tools, they have legitimate and important usecases outside killing people and they are much harder to kill people with since it's relatively easy to flee from a car, they tend to get stuck in tight spaces
Which imo makes cars okay to own.
But yes, cars are also super dangerous, look at the Christmas-market attacks over here in Europe. And nobody wants to ban cars.
The fuck are you talking about? So many people want to ban cars. Myself included.
Well, in some niche cases (rural living and wild animals) I can be convinced they can be a tool. But generally that 'tool' is just violence.
2A ppl want to have violence as an option, which rapidly turns problematic.
Letting the government have a monopoly on violence can indeed be problematic. I would be more amenable to the 2A arguments if they weren't such arrogant fucks about it.
I like the implication that guns are equal to cars in terms of necessity. Some people can't leave their homes without driving, and some people (cowards) can't leave their suburban house without their emotional support weapon.
I see this sentiment parroted in every post about guns, and I get it: Some people have never been in a situation that required one, and they don't understand why people would need one.
What I don't get is what it's contributing to the conversation.
The problem is for every responsible gun owner there are dozens of irresponsible ones who are a danger to themselves and others.
Look at all the damn cases of kids killing themselves playing with guns left out by their owners.
Anyone who argues against the idea of gun control shows a distinct lack of empathy at best and is one of the those irresponsible and dangerous users at worst.
I’ll certainly buy that there are some people and situations where a weapon is a necessary tool, And some people who can use them responsibly. however the problem is the majority of careless or frightened weapons holders who are a deadly threat to everyone around them. Most talk about guns rights doesn’t account for that and completely ignores the rights of the potential victims to not be killed
As long as you’re treating gun control as all or nothing, I’ll have to side with all the victims rather than the few responsible gun holders. Meet us someplace in between to try to reduce the harm caused by your tool and protect all the innocent victims
Some people have never been in a situation that required one, and they don’t understand why people would need one.
Realistically such situations come about because of easy access to guns. Make it more work to buy and keep a firearm, use red flag laws to prevent those who cannot safely own and maintain a firearm from having them, provide easy gun buyback & disposal, and eventually the gun population will dwindle and fewer people will have actual needs for guns. Overtime with such programs firearm ownership should eventually find itself at a reasonable level where only responsible gun owners have them
I agree that cars are over-dispensed.
This is some peak dumb shit.
I wonder how they feel about sobriety checkpoints.
The 2nd amendment literally doesn’t provide them the right to a weapon.
If it did, particularly for the reason they say, literally killing a politician would be legal if you could prove “their tyranny”. That’s the biggest load of bullshit.
It’s a simple provision that provides the States with the right to arm their own militias.
So many chode Americans believe “theyre the miltia!!!”. The government also defines that, though, and it’s … not everyone. Its only males 18-45, and women in the Guard. That’s it. So the only people the 2nd amendment could even begin to logically and legally allow a weapon are healthy, able bodied males 18-45 and trained women. And they don’t really need to prove theyre able bodied, so every fat guy with a gun is breaking constitutional law
Almost everything you said is correct, but you forgot that a militia is not a military organization, they are paramilitary and are still civilians. Legal definition of a militia does not mention requirements of age or health. National Guard is a military organization that is funded by public tax dollars and mandates specific ages and health.
Because of this fact, militia are only mandated by the US Constitution to be "well regulated" so that when a state governor calls them to action, they need to form and follow a chain-of-command, which requires the ability to train with their firearms on their own personal time and their own dime (they are legally not allowed to be a burden to the taxpayers in any way, unlike the state National Guard).
So this means unrestricted access to commercial firearms and the freedom to train on federal land or private property with their own personally owned (not government issue) weapons.
Originalists, yet they stretch the definition of “at war” and “tyranny” to meaning at all times for everyone.
Its straight up propaganda, its illogical, and its not what's written.
Uvalde
Sandy Hook
How many more
I hope you catch one if you really believe the people should have the right to unfettered firearm access
I know lots of Dems and they practically all own guns.
Is this the most fuckcars poster ever? NGL I lowkey love the implication that the only purpose for cars is to kill people 🥰
NRA shills in this thread shoukd be ashamed of themselves. But we know they're not. They don't care about other people. Just money. If Hell is real, they deserve it.
i dont get it
Reddit OP is correlating an excuse for banning guns with a
comparableexcuse for banning cars.thanks, i was confused by the sawat team and the lady, i wondered where her gun is.
Do you know what a metaphor is?
Is it where you make up a fake scenario and then get outrage from it?
is it where you make up a fake scenario
Yes, that's generally how metaphors work, making a difficult concept easier for people to understand by explaining it in different terms with a hypothetical. I'm glad I could help you learn this.
and then get outrage from it?
Are you talking about the guy you're responding to? He doesn't seem very outraged, to me. Or do you mean the guy posting the screenshot on reddit -- you got "rage" from 'gun control in a nutshell' -- how, exactly? That doesn't sound like frothing at the mouth to me, that sounds like someone making a point.
What a strange comment.
That's essentially how gun control works though.
Maybe the biggest workout your AR-15 gets is the monthly 2-gun PCSL match. But your state has decided that a mass murder in a different state is a good enough reason to ban semi-automatic rifles with box magazines, and now you're a felon for simply possessing something that was legal when you bought it.
And there's not really an end point, because all the bans in the world don't change human nature. Germany is cracking down on people carrying pocket knives because stabbings are up sharply. In England you can't carry a screwdriver without good cause. Banning tools doesn't change the material circumstances that lead to violence. (Not that either Republicans or Democrats want to do that; Dems want to ban guns, Republicans want to ban anyone that isn't a straight white christian from owning them.)
Slippery slope fallacy, huh? How about we start the conversation with agreeing that we want to reduce deaths and injuries from firearms, and figure out a sensible way to do that?
Sure. And I can happily give you some great ideas that don't infringe on fundamental civil rights.
Most violent crime is a result of material circumstances, so change the circumstances. Make income and wealth more equal through tax policy so that there's less disparity between the worst-off and the best. (Yes, I think even a single billionaire is a failure.) Adequately fund public education, and stop letting conservatives steer money towards charter and magnet school. Reform the criminal justice system to focus on reform instead of punishment. Create a single-payer health system so that no one has to drown in medical debt, and start seriously funding public mental health systems. (My first therapist in Chicago had been in public mental health until the city slashed the budget--again--and he lost his job. He went from working with severely mentally ill homeless people--people who desperately needed the help--to high-functioning autistic people like me that just kind of suck at being human.) Build and adequately fund high-density public housing so that no one has to live in a ghetto. And, maybe most importantly, start funding community programs, like sports leagues, gardening groups, and the like, all on the public dime, so that people can start building real-life connections.
Fucks sake, we're nearly the richest country in the world, we can do this shit.
possessing something that was legal when you bought it
I'm there ATM, yet the first thing I ever learned about the law in school was the notion of "grandfathering".
Germany is cracking down on people carrying pocket knives because stabbings are up sharply. In England you can't carry a screwdriver without good cause.
And all of that is true, read it right here in lemmy, and far beyond weird to my sensibilities.
I’m there ATM, yet the first thing I ever learned about the law in school was the notion of “grandfathering”.
Supposed to be a thing, and yet isn't, not really. You can talk about the 'takings' clause, too. What states may do is ban a thing, and require you to turn it in, and then give you what the state thinks is a just compensation. Or insist that, while you can own it, you can never sell or otherwise transfer it, which undercuts the idea of ownership of a thing in the first place.
possessing something that was legal when you bought it.
Like some sort of contra banning. Could even call it, contraband!