A new smartphone again? Rethink unhealthy culture of frequent upgrades
A new smartphone again? Rethink unhealthy culture of frequent upgrades
The need for more durable and sustainable digital devices is urgent. Read more at straitstimes.com.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
Consumers however are at the heart of an unhealthy culture of frequent device upgrades
Yes, blame it on the consumer and not on the companies that spend an incredible amount of money to first hire marketeers that think all day long of the best way to push 'new' products, and then run costly campaigns to spread the word.
Gotta be honest. Yes blame us. It takes two to tango.
At one point in my life there was this anti consumer movement culturally that got absolutely destroyed and buried. Maybe we're all just sheep without any free will controlled by Steve jobs of the world. But I feel like we refused to keep certain fires lit and now we're all freezing. That's our fault.
Most of it was super obvious too. When ads started invading, some people were pissed. But there was always way more people saying 'who cares'. But things like ads fuel this consumerism to get people buying and idolizing the tech channels or kardashian lifestyle with all the bling and flash of new. Now we have a generation who probably think anti consumption lifestyle is just flat out crazy talk. Like how do we not have any counter culture anymore to the lavish consumerism culture. Almost every culture has an opposition but that one seems like it's non existant in a world consumed by ads products
How many people are actually getting a new phone every year? I don't think I'm poor but maybe I am? Everyone I know keeps their phones for at least a few years and then replaces them when they are no longer functional.
Still. Every 3 years feels like too often, but that's around the time things stop working - likely due to planned obsolescence and updates designed to make older phones work worse.
Should we really blame the consumer for replacing something the manufacturer designed to break after a short time? What's something else you pay $1500+ for that is useless 3 years later?
I'm not saying consumers are not to blame, but i have objections against the phrasing; as if it's primarily blaming consumers. I myself am not quite a minimalist, but do have strong tendencies in that direction. So, i never cared about fashion, or buying the newest gadgets. And i know there are people who are the complete opposite. However, i do feel that companies fuel the greed of consumers big time.
While consumers need to educate themselves/be educated by their caretakers and schools, i feel the heart of the matter is the marketing culture and the tendency of companies of hiding shady practices, like profiting from child slaves who have to mine precious metals, or women slaving away in factories for long hours, while risking their lives and bodies due to unsafe machinery, buildings and being bullied by their
employeesemployers, for a shamefully low salary. Edit to replace the word employeesI think along this line of reasoning when it comes to evaluating myself. It’s how I keep myself in check and “sharpen” myself as a person. I like to remind myself of how often I fall short of it though. I also like to remind myself of the things that I have going for me that others might not have had.
When I play the more charitable viewpoint of other people’s life experiences out in my head, it’s usually pretty easy to see them getting where they are. There’s a lot of suffering in this world, and large, effectively international companies are finding ways to exacerbate that in order to keep their businesses growing. It’s nice to sit down after a long day and veg out to short little videos, where each gives you a little chuckle or smile. It’s not that hard to get caught in the trap.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I agree completely that the path we’re going down is concerning and scary, and individuals can absolutely put the work in to make their lives better and elevate above the mainstream, but for any given person, that can be very difficult for any multitude of reasons, and we can’t forget compassion for them.
I don't think there were ever that many of us who read Adbusters every month, but it's likely even fewer now.
I think that reality TV and social media influencers have had as much to do with people embracing conspicuous consumption as a culture as much as advertisers have.
I don't really like this trend of absolving consumers of literally all agency in how they spend their money. Outside of practices that intentionally try to make older products obsolete like purposeful throttling - which should absolutely be shamed and made illegal - no one is holding a gun to your head and telling you to buy the new phone or else. If someone decides that a product is a worthy use of their money and decides to purchase it, then so be it. People aren't children and can decide how they'd like to spend their money, and I really don't see what's wrong with a company trying to convince you to do so. People can make their own choices, and that includes financially poor ones. They can also choose to prioritize different things than you or I might.
Ultimately, if you don't want to buy a new phone, don't. They're really quite good nowadays and tend to last a while. There will of course continue to be shiny new things, and if having the newest thing is truly important to you, you can decide to spend your money on it. Or, you can also not. But to say that consumers have essentially no choice and are simply the poor victims of marketing with no real agency at all is reductive to the point of being almost patronizing.
Ultimately, if you don't want to buy a new phone, don't.
Could you have made a more vacuous comment? Obviously people shouldn't buy every new toy that comes out, that doesn't change the fact that 90% of the blame—and 90% is a hard floor—belongs to the people who waste the Earth's resources pinching it off in the first place and then waste even more in protectionism and generally making sure there are as few viable alternatives as possible.
And that make their phones expensive enough to repair that buying a new one is a logical fiscal decision.
I always say this. You're one person. Facebook was once a trillion dollar company that hired teams of engineers, phds, and marketers to device the most abusive ways to keep your attention. There are literal studies showing how insta promotes depression in young girls and yet they're still allowed to operate.
Social media's marketing schemes are the new generations tobacco industry.
Though i agree with you, i never feel like 'i'm only one person'. For instance, if someone turns off the lights and recycles their trash, they often say; how does it help, i'm only one person after all. But there are so many people thinking the exact same thing and together we can help change the world.
So, yes, companies should be changed and i think this is also about politics and economics, which are usually conservative and greedy. But i never feel like the things i do are in vain; i'm standing with perhaps millions of invisible people who care about the environment and try to do their best and who all might be thinking; i'm only one person. Many people do want to change and try their best, but it's time that all these conglomerates are being forced to change for real, instead of getting subsidized, and just greenwash their products.
Why not both? For example: one of the advantages if Iphones is the long software support. Why then are people buying a new one every year? I‘m still rocking an IPhone XR and while the batterie is down to 80%, I haven‘t encountered an app that brings it to it‘s knees.
blame it on the consumer
Yeah. Blame it on the consumers indeed. Are you a adult or not? Put the tendies down and put your big boy pants on and realize that you need to take responsibility for at least some of your actions.
Same goes for all those dopes that pre-order every game that gets released and then we all wonder why the industry releases so many unfinished games that need patches and updates. That's because consumers are rewarding these game developers for releasing shitty software.
Ok but first manufacturers must "rethink" planned obsolescence and right to repair
I agree. I'm tired of always blaming the end users for everything
Planned obsolescense is a myth. It's just cost-benefit that makes old tech crappy. Tech keeps getting better, and supporting the old device is a pain for no extra money. And phone architecture is stupid so they need every single part supplier to provide updates if they want to update the OS, unlike PCs where the hardware is better-abstracted.
You're either a troll or an uninformed idiot who has never done operating system development. A properly modularised OS can allow for minimal upkeep for older hardware. A leading example is Apple's .kext system allowing for near 10 years of OS support both on macOS and iOS. Not that I think Apple is a great company but they do have some really good software development practices.
Also regardless of the technical explanination above, accepting a constant flow of e-waste for the sake of a new shiny year is just unethical regardless of the supposed reason.
it's not just phones or devices that need updates, though. None of my refrigerators, washing machines, dishwashers have ever lasted more than 10 years; I think the average is about 5 years before they stop working, get all rusty or a very expensive piece breaks so they are not worth repairing. Meanwhile all of my granma's old kitchen appliances are still working perfectly after 60+ years of service.
Sure, it might be just that over-optimizing their production so they are more performant while being cheaper to make is also making them less durable, but I don't see a lot of motivation from companies to go out of their way to build durable things either. And it's not that I think Corporate = Bad; as you say it's a cost/benefit thing, it's just that the "benefit" companies try to maximize is their shareholders', not our planet's. It's on Politics to create a legal framework where some of the cost to our planet is shared with companies (so they have incentives to make things durable/repairable again) and on us consumer to choose wisely what to buy, when and from whom.
Reduce. Repair. Recycle.
Most phones, break this at every step.
A big part of it is built in batteries that are difficult to replace. My phone has a removable battery and is on its third one now... still works fine and does everything I want it to, after 10 years of use.
Edit: It's running Lineage Os 18 (android 11) not the original android 5(?) it came with, so security updates are not an issue.
This 100% since my screen has a small crack in the corner, I need a new screen just to get to the battery.
Because of this they want me to leave my phone with them for up to 30 days while they order the parts. It’s an iPhone XR. How can they not have parts?
I know it’s because apple makes it difficult on purpose.
Also there are not Apple Store in the country where I live, so I have to go through an authorized provider.
I’ll get a 15, but then I’m taking this phone to an unofficial repair shop to get it fixed up for cheap.
maybe it's my personality or i'm old but i keep my things (including tech) until they become unusable. i've never thought about upgrading my phone every couple of years. i kept my last phone for 6 years (it became a brick), my current phone is from 2018.
I intentionally buy things that I know I can use until they are unusable. I do not often buy anything from apple.
Me too. My phone is 10 years old, my microwave is 40 yrs old, my car is 24, my home theater amp is 25.
I take pride in taking care of my stuff and making it last as long as possible. It's something I got from my grandmother who wouldn't let anything go to waste. (She was a refugee from ww2, so she knew a thing or two about making things last and making due.) Obviously not everything can last that long, but if you get good quality things chances are it'll be around a lot longer than if you just buy cheap or flashy stuff.
In the era when everyone seem to be taking out expensive contracts for new phones every year I have had just 4 smart phones in the past 20 ish years. They all reach the stage where they are just too slow for modern apps but I think we might finally be in the stage where compute power progress has slowed that the current phone might get an open source Lineage et el on it for a decent period of time with multiple battery swaps.
Me too. my phone is from 2017 and I'm fine with it. It's part of your personality, to preserve things. Associating personality traits to being "old" or to any stigmatized aspect in our society is a dirty trick to manipulate people (in this case, used to force people into consumerism). Just be yourself, and don't feel bad about it.
Legalize Right To Repair Ban Planned Obsolescence
Boom, solved the problem. But once again it's easier to shame Joe Q. Public than hold the real criminals accountable.
Won't solve the problem of people spending 1000+ dollars a year on the latest and newest because they need it as a status symbol to fill the vacuous hole where a personality would be.
and I'd wager more people are buying new phones every year for that reason, than due to forced obsolescence.
Some people will do that regardless, but I would keep all of my phones for longer if the batteries were easily changeable and they didn't eventually grind to a halt. I loved my Pixel 3a and would still be using it today if I could.
living from the ego is a choice. everyone is free to examine their values and beliefs, and choose a life that supports their well being. not doing this is pricy.
I mean if they can afford that, good on them I guess? But it really would help for the rest of us who ya know, don't base their personality on whatever they're lugging around in their pockets.
Ban glue in non-waterproof electronics. I remember when I didn't need to risk destroying a device with a heat-gun to open it up and repair it like 10 years ago, but y'know, everything needed to be thinner.
Thats one thing that boggles me.. I've never heard a single person go "Y'know, this phone is nice..but I wish it was thinner and more fragile".
I'm convinced they just want to make phones thinner, and push screens further to the edge (or in the case of Galaxy, around the edge and down the side) just to make them more likely to break when dropped.
Smartphones have been "good enough" for a while now. Enough power and battery to do all the things needed for enough time before running out of battery.
IMHO there are 2 reasons we still regularly upgrade.
- "Obsolescence" wether it would be perceived new hardware features or just new software not being available
- Use/breakage (I include batteries dying in that) with no reasonable way to replace parts
I've had a few phones over the years some of them I "legitimately" just broke (one had a cracked mb after a bike accident) I broke my second to last phone trying to replace the battery (thought I would be able to, broke the screen). The fact that everything is glued down and made to not be replaceable irked me so much that my current phone is a Fairphone. Replacing the battery takes 1 minute and requires no tools. Replacing the screen takes like 5 min and 8 screws. I plan on using this phone for at least 5 years more if possible. But I understand not everybody can shell out 600 dollars for an "OK" phone.
It’s impossible if the vendors stop shipping os updates. I can’t use an out of date phone for my works 2fa push. Kept my phone for 5 years and it was still going, but the planned obsolescence got me.
Have work issue you a hardware FIDO token (such as a yubikey) or give you separate cell phone just for work. They legally can’t make you upgrade but if your phone can’t get enough security updates to install an Authenticator it is probably time to upgrade to be honest.
the thing is most of the phones are fully capable of running the modern version of the operating system they shipped with but the vendors stop supporting the products to make you buy more shit
Writing this on an iPX which got its last update this week, 6 years old now but I’m just waiting for my banking apps to require iOS17. People will blame development costs for excluding older phones but there is no reason iPhones should not get iOS updates for 10+ years to save App developers the work.
If only new batteries were easily swappable...
They will be in the EU
flip phones have those, but i've never had to swap one. the longest i've had one before it broke was ~ 7 years and a charge still lasted about half as long as when it was new (2 weeks vs 4).
they actually fit in a pocket and last a lot longer between charges. i don't 'need' the internet on me 24/7, so i'll keep getting those as long as they're still made.
Well, that's good, but most other people either need to or want to.
Yes, I have one of those as well, but a smartphone is something I carry anyway.
It’s good practice to buy at least one or two new smartphones per year.
Thank you for the tip, Mr Business Man!
Battery degrades every six months, and most batteries sold are either cheap but fake or QC-passed but as expensive as a brand-new phone.
Dude the downvotes, it's a joke. Should I put /s? lol
Battery degradation is real, but typically lithium batteries in phones should last 18-24 months before their noticeability bad enough to want to warrant a replacement.
But, if you're constantly leaving it in a hot car, draining it to near 0%, or otherwise stressing it out, it will will significantly worse off, even at 6 months.
The fairphone and terracube are starting to take off. Being able to replace hardware was a staple in early cell phone design and hopefully will come back.
I would consider these if they weren’t still using Android. Anything with Google involved is unacceptable to me.
Fairphone allows you to unlock the bootloader and install an OS of your choice.
See https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9979154556817-Google-free-Android
I only upgrade when my phone literally dies or can’t support criticial software and security updates anymore. I upgraded from an iphone 6s to a 12 Pro Max 2 years ago and will probably hold on to this phone until it’s no longer supported.
Sure, let's blame consumer for corporate policies
It's both really. Too many people rock a cracked screen, then upgrade it as soon as they can. Rather than looking after their device or getting it repaired.
But at the same time, corporations limit device longevity due to bad practices. Like limited security updates, planned obsolescence and anti-repair policies.
In short, not enough people care enough, and the companies prey on this. Attacking the "upgrade culture" is valuable, as legislating against these bad practices can only happen if the people exert enough political pressure
Same situation as plastic straws. Let's blame the public for using straws, when actually it's industries and corporate policies that refuse to adopt better practices.
At work my manager still rocks an old Motorola g5 plus. He says phones have reached peak performance and there's no point of upgrading. Hes a humble, down to earth guy also make $210k/ year.
The problem is that there are security updates that those old phones need and aren't getting. The whole "let's tie the operating system binaries to the hardware" thing was always dumb, somehow Windows can handle binary-blob drivers that aren't built into the OS.
Oh I loved that phone! I still have it but I didn't have the balls to replace the built in battery so I reluctantly decided to upgrade
He replaced the battery by himself. Ordered stuff from ifixit.
Peak is definitely not true, but there is no point in upgrading for the foreseeable future.
I hope my phone lasts me decades. I don't really see it being incapable of doing what I need it to unless we radically change how we use our phones.
I'm sure people have felt the same way about PCs, too. Ever since Sandy Bridge, there hasn't really been a reason for most PC users to upgrade unless they were gaming or did some other CPU-intensive task.
I'll tell you right now your phone wont last a decade.
That battery, even with light usage, will eventually degrade to the point you'll have to charge it multiple times a day to keep it alive.
and then you'll have to do the math and decide between getting a new battery and just getting a new phone.
Thats the decision i had to make when I needed a battery for my old phone.. Did the math and found the cost of a new (to me) used phone was close enough to the cost of the replacement battery + labor that it was more value to me getting the newer phone, with newer OS, and still in the receiving update window than putting a aftermarket battery in my old phone.
Granted, the math gets heavily skewed in favor of a new battery if you are well experienced in cellphone disassembly and know you can do it without breaking the screen or back. I'm not, and any savings would go out the door if I broke anything, which is why I was going to let a professional do it.
Phones have to easily repairable before you can blame consumers for upgrading. Cell phones are pretty essential for modern life and most of us don’t want to be without them for long. The upgrade allows for people to not have to worry about what to do when something out of warranty breaks. It is like fixing your car. In warranty, the manufacturer or dealer takes care of things. Out of warranty, you have to find a repair shop. Finding a repair shop is difficult. Trying to get a second or third quote on a broken car is difficult and costly.
The alternative is to make repair shops have transparent prices and make it easy for them to get oem parts. The other option is to force companies to warranty their phones for longer. Until the government does one of those you can’t blame consumers.
It is possible to find phones that are easy to repair in Europe. I think they are going to hit the American market in a few months.
So now that people have options, it is really on the consumer side.
Yeah, but that's an insanely recent development
gosh, I love my Fairphone.
Fairphone 4 with weekly android 13 updates here! ( lineageos )
Oh dang that's neato!
Me too!
First and foremost, don't feel pressured to get a new hand tablet with a ten-lense DSLR stapled to the front every single year.
I know Straits only used a picture of an iPhone to get more clicks, but Apple is the least of the offenders when it comes to this. iOS 17 runs on phones released six years ago (including the last iPod touch!), and security updates go a couple years further back than that. I wish Android phones could guarantee that kind of lifespan.
Battery replacement sucks on every smartphone except for obscure modular phones that suddenly lose support or the company goes out of business. But the newest iPhone actually makes it easier to replace the battery (read: still sucks a bit). So, while you have to jump through hoops, you can replace the battery on every smartphone (usually through official channels, but also by other means if needed).
What needs to happen is the masses need to be taught that it's okay to keep your phone for a few years. Phones need to regarded like cars. Drive it until you can't, THEN get a new car. And when you do, consider a newer used car. Once that becomes commonplace, then companies will be forced to tone down their release schedules.
This isn’t talked about enough. Apple at least for now support more older models than most if not all androids. The key is not to buy into the marketing. Phones today are good enough and mature enough to not need to be at the bleeding edge every other year. Just get a new case, new wallpaper and swap the battery before deciding a new phone.
Honestly if you care about camera improvements, get a second hand semi decent mirrorless or point and shoot camera. Way more fun. And easy replaceable battery and storage.
that's why Apple forces replacement parts to be paired with the original device, making impossible for repair shops to scrap and reuse parts of broken iPhones to repair others.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/82493/we-are-retroactively-dropping-the-iphones-repairability-score-en
Agree with all of this, however there isn’t any need to tone down release schedules. There being a new product doesn’t force you to buy it, however it does mean that when you do come to buy it there is a fresh model available. For example imagine if they adopt a 3 year release cycle and you break your phone on year 2.9, now you’re forced to buy a model with a 3 year out of date feature that will itself be obsolete faster, especially since a new model is round the corner. This isn’t the best system. Better the phone companies keep making the latest tech available, so when you do need to buy you can get the phone with the longest life ahead of it.
Dawg, I only upgrade phones and laptops once every 8 years or so. These things are EXPENSIVE, I can't afford one more often than that.
My current tablet came out in 2014, that's when I got it. It'll be a decade old in just a few months.
Besides swapping the battery out twice over the years, it still works great and does everything I need it to do. Fantastic big AMOLED display, too.
Yea, idk, I’m upgrading my phone after 3 years, and if this buyer comes through I’ll have paid $100 for that 3 years of use.
I think a lot of people treat the idea of upgrading often as the old become ewaste immediately or is just kept in a drawer. But selling my used gear while it still has value keeps my overall burden down and devices much cheaper. I upgraded to the Pro Max this year, and out of pocket after this sale I’m spending $350. If I had had the Pro Max before I’d probably be getting another $100 or so for my used device. I’ll do the same thing in 3 - 5 years depending on if/when I have an incentive to upgrade again.
Laptops and tablets are a different story since they don’t keep their value quite as well as iPhones do, and if I’m honest have a much smaller impact on my daily life.
Most of those older $300-400 Android phones are ewaste for the most part after 3-5 years. Higher-end everything is more valuable and generally lasts longer. $50 work boots vs $400 work boots.
Modern $300-400 phones however I think will last 5 years easily in terms of performance depending on your needs.
I'm still rocking my Galaxy S8! Gonna keep it till the battery is toast.
Replacing the battery is not too hard too
S7, hoping to move up soon, but the paper aint really been there and it's not like Pokemon Go's a high priority in my life
Which tablet is it?
problem is planned obselescence.. dont buy it? fine.. a few more years we will do it for you to by dropping support for the one you are using
Apple supports its phones for at least 6 years. You definitely don’t need to upgrade every 2, 3 or even 4 years.
But but but! If I don't get the newest shiny toy as soon as it releases, how will people know I support them? /s
I keep seeing the complaints, but do enough people actually upgrade yearly? Because anecdotally (including online communities in this) I have seen most people claim that they only upgrade every 3-5 years and I think that's sensible as an upgrade cycle and will only get longer now if my own feelings match the general populace.
I personally have found myself needing an upgrade every 3 years on average and think I'll find a way to go longer with phones which don't lose security updates around the exact time the battery starts swelling on my old phone (my previous reason for upgrading and seems to be happening again)
In the US at least, I think most people get their phones through their carrier and are stuck on a contract paying it off for ~3 years. I think rich people and enthusiasts/fanboys are the only ones who upgrade every year or buy it unlocked at full price from the manufacturer.
I am not in the US and not locked into a contract and neither is anyone I know IRL but nonetheless we do upgrade at the same cadence. As for the people who upgrade their phones yearly, unless they're keeping the old phones in a locked box I think it is not that bad if those old phones see use as an upgrade for someone else (either given or sold as a second hand device) or even if those phones run duty as a makeshift device.
I personally think it only becomes a problem if it's literally e-waste or if the majority of people were upgrading yearly (which is again because it'll lead to the first problem but felt like putting it separately too). If it's playing some role in the world it's okay¹ in my book.
^(1: I wonder if people who use their old phones as a secondary device (eg: a music player for running)^) ^(are creating e-waste or not. As in if it would've been better if they used only one device for both purposes and either gave/sold the old phone or didn't buy a new phone in the first place. After all one could make the case that battery degradation would make them need an earlier upgrade)
Most people in the world buys full price from manufacturer. And they are not rich or enthusiasts at all. It's just in the US the consumerist mindset of paying $1500 over 3 years for a $800 phone is enforced by the carriers. And the ones who go out of that mindset to fanboy, buy $1500 overpriced phones. Most people aren't buying flagship phones. Mid and low performance phones are perfectly serviceable for the vast majority of people.
I dunno, my phone's always start to have issues if I keep them too long. Boot loops, frequent crashing, random resets, functionality failing to work as it did when new, lack of security updates, etc. The hardware is built to fail
...no longer receiving updates.
Also it was hella expensive back then. You can get a Pixel 8 for the same price with 7 years of updates. Way better value.
Yeah :( I love my 2017-2018 phone to death (it's a Pixel 2 XL, and in the ~€400 phone market they are still trying to beat its camera quality 6 years later - and since it's a Pixel it's still more fluid than several phones I try in store, like €400-500 Samsungs, that display evident stutters that mine does not), but it has started with the random crashes and "dying" (boot loops followed by not turning on anymore) for a few minutes / hours before coming back to its senses occasionally
Yeah, I'd still be using my galaxy note 4 if it didnt start having so many issues. Used that phone for what seemed like 6 years. Well built, but the replaceable batteries that were reliable were harder to come by. It had boot loop issues, it had some sort of memory corruption defect that was common with note 4s.
Just don't buy a fucking new phone every couple years
I would probably still be using my Pixel 2XL if the battery didn't die. Or a Nexus 6P if that didn't die from the hardware defect they got sued for. Probably even the OnePlus One before that too, but that may be a bit old for daily use
The 2xl was fantastic. I'm on the 6 now and I miss how light it was, but the higher refresh rate is nice.
I stopped using mine a few years ago, because it would not hold charge, and would also just shutdown at 20%. Upgraded to a Galaxy Note 10, because it was new at the time, and I managed to get it at a 600$ discount. Deeply regret getting it, by this day.
My mom still uses her 2XL today, however we've upgrading her to a new phone next week
And here I am with my S4 running lineage Os (android 11)
Phone is on its third battery but doing fine, and does everything I want it to.
Wow, I commend you! I replaced my s5 3.5 years ago because it was feeling very sluggish, I can't believe what is like using an s4 with modern apps!
I actually find it's less sluggish with android 11 than it originally was... but then again I don't have a lot of apps on it, mainly firefox, Rethink (firewall), Voyager (lemmy frontend that uses firefox), Adaway, and a few other ones. I don't have any games or anything on it, I only game on my pc anyway.
The bloatware that it originally came with did nothing for performance, that's for sure.
I'm still using my S5.
I still have four new replacement batteries. I expect another 4-6 years with it.
That's awesome
Have a Note 10+
Screen needs replacing : $450 + tax (cdn) Only one more year of security updates
Bought a "renewed" s23 for $700. I didn't want to but it didn't make sense to sink so much into the old phone even though it worked fine. It pained me to give up the SD card slot...
I feel that. I was rocking an S8 I got Black Friday 2017, but I finally had to upgrade in March to an S23. The battery just couldn't get through the day anymore and I didn't want to go through the hassle of swapping the battery myself. I couldn't ship it somewhere to get it done either as I use it for work purposes.
I was perfectly content with the S8, otherwise. I could have used it for another 5 years if the battery was easily swappable.
I'm hoping my S23 will last me another 5.5 years (I enabled battery save mode so it only charges to 85%, which is more than enough for me). And by that point, I hope Fairphone has a flagship that's good enough to switch to.
Using a phone that long is risky due to the lack of security updates, especially if you're using it for work. People not using phones longer is a problem, but the bigger issue is manufacturers killing support so quickly to force people into upgrading.
I recently upgraded after 5 years on an iPhone because it reached the end of its support cycle. I considered another iPhone because 5 years of support is great, but really didn't feel like paying another $1000+ for what is essentially the same phone I was already using, just with a different body. So I went with a used Pixel 7 on ebay and installed GrapheneOS on it, and I'm very happy with it. I'm getting the same 5 years of support, a more secure OS, and I'm recycling at the same time!
Guilty as charged. I get a new phone about every two years. Do I need a new phone every two years? Absolutely not. All essential features work just fine on older devices. Why do I still do it? Probably because I'm too enthusiastic about new hardware.
I hand down my old devices to family members, and when I hand a device down, the receiver hands their device down to another family member. So the phones I purchase are actively in use for at least six years. 6 years is around the point where Apple drops support for major new iOS updates, and eventually also security updates. Batteries get old and replacement costs tend to get very close to the remaining value of the device itself.
I'm not trying to justify buying a new smartphone for myself every other year, but there's only so much you can do as a consumer. Sure, there are aftermarket ROMs for many Android devices that extend software support, but that's hardly something everyone can install and maintain. You can get replacement batteries from trustworthy brands for fairly little money, but then you either have to replace them yourself (which isn't trivial for many people), or pay someone more money to replace it for you.
In my opinion, only a small (or at least lesser) portion of the blame is on the consumer. The EU and other governing bodies need to step in and require manufacturers to:
- Provide at least 10 years of software updates. This doesn't have to include a ton of new features, but it should include compatibility updates (so newer versions of apps run just fine) and obviously security updates. Some people use devices with hopelessly outdated software and they are fine with it, but I'd say up-to-date software is very important nowadays (look at the recent WebP bug for example).
- Provide replacement parts, especially batteries, for at least 10 years without a profit margin, including a service that replaces these parts - again without profit margin.
- Make batteries user replaceable. The EU is already demanding this, so give it a few years and we'll hopefully get at least that.
- As a bonus, make phones modular and upgradable. Framework shows how it can be done for laptops, I'm sure it's possible to miniaturize this to smartphones, even though this probably has its limitations.
If all this is in place we can start blaming the average consumer.
Still, people like me aren't completely innocent, I'll admit that. I know that I'm just fine using older devices. I used a first generation iPad Pro 12,9" for a long time. I think it had a dual core A9X SoC. I eventually upgraded to an M1 iPad Pro and sure, the old device was way slower (or rather the new device was a lot faster), but I'm not doing anything with the new iPad that the old one couldn't handle somehow.
You could maybe even put a small portion of the blame on developers (or rather, people in charge at software companies). Many apps use frameworks like React Native to port their apps to mobile, and while it's better than Electron, it's still nowhere near as efficient as a true native Swift UI or Android (don't know how their current UI framework is called) app. Huge companies that clearly have the budget to make individual, native apps for each platform rarely do this anymore (Discord, Instagram, ...). Building efficient apps would likely make customers less annoyed that their old phone is "getting slower".
Sure, there are aftermarket ROMs for many Android devices that extend software support, but that’s hardly something everyone can install and maintain.
They could be if device makers, app developers, and Google didn't actively try to make it harder.
What about new phones is driving you to get a new one? The industry has been stagnant for quite a while now and every year it feels like the only selling point is "camera improvements". If anything I think phones have lost features over time with the last worthwhile phone being the Galaxy S10 with everything since being a downgrade in multiple ways.
Provide replacement parts, especially batteries, for at least 10 years without a profit margin, including a service that replaces these parts - again without profit margin.
you'd have to nationalize hardware production and service. for-profit companies would not accept a zero-profit decade-long obligation like that.
I for one feel like the hardware hasn't actually gotten better "enough" since I got my Galaxy Note 9. All the "improvements" feel marginal at best and don't give me the impression that they'd impact my user experience enough to justify the loss of a headphone jack.
Fuck ALL that jackless horseshit.
AND I still can, and do, use wireless earbuds!
Whenever the cable of my trusty wired ones might get in the way.
(Which is seldom)
I for one feel like the hardware hasn't actually gotten better "enough" since I got my Galaxy Note 9. All the "improvements" feel marginal at best and don't give me the impression that they'd impact my user experience enough to justify the loss of a headphone jack.
Fuck ALL that jackless horseshit.
AND I still can, and do, use wireless earbuds!
Whenever the cable of my trusty wired ones might get in the way.
(Which is seldom)
I think it's weird to get enthusiastic abount something and then bored with it in two years.
If it was worth getting enthusiastic about, wouldn't it last me longer? Lol.
Right? My Pixel 4a still works like new but Google's dropping support so I have to get a new one or run a custom ROM. And the new phones don't have headphones jacks!
All that said, I mostly use Bluetooth headphones anyway now, and it's rumored that Google will switch to a 7 year support cycle, so I might just grab a Pixel 8 on Black Friday.
Google Play system updates are a thing since the first Pixel, and still continues to be updated to this day. So there still is some form of system updates.
Samsung S7 (same year as the first Pixel) when it reached end-of-service had to have a few security updates due to some pretty big android exploits. Pixel however did not need a security update because Play system took care of it. So even though your Pixel reached EoS, it actually didn't really.
Luckily it's much better now. My 6a has a 5 year support cycle, so I'll definitely get bored before the support ends. Also like you said, the 7 year support rumor too, which I think would be really good. Don't think they should be supported longer then that.
I still got a 3a! It's definitely on the slow side these days, even with root.
Google's dropping support so I have to get a new one or run a custom ROM.
Honestly, why? If it works for you now, why wouldn't it work for you then?
Because modern apps may not support old OSs. And because security, I'm not sure if Google will still release security updates, but security is important.
Bold of you to assume I don't lose or break my phone every year or two
Yeah, the thing with phones is they're used every single day, and see a lot more wear and tear than say, a Kindle or a laptop. Not everyone wants to fork out for an OtterBox or some other ultra tanky case.
I try and go four years between updates, but for my Pixel 4 that meant a warranty replacement on year two due to a charging defect, and buying another used Pixel 4 off a coworker three months ago when mine got water damaged. The replacement just shuts itself off randomly multiple times a day, and that's fine for a couple months but I'm really looking forward to upgrading to the Pixel 8.
We probably shouldn't treat phones like leading cars, upgrading every year because something shiny and new came out, but upgrading regularly just due to wear and tear makes a lot of sense.
Have you tried a rugged phone?
Yep. When you can’t easily replace a battery it’s a strong (intentional?) disincentive by the manufacturer that pushes people towards buying a new phone. If you need to surrender your phone for a day or three to get the replacement done, people would rather sign a new contract for a phone than be without.
5 year old Oneplus 6.
Does everything I want it to. Everything still works. Rooted. No ads. Still runs fast. Never used up 80% of storage.
Only notable issue is my battery. If i'm away from WiFi and I'm using it a lot (listening to YouTube ad free on fire fox) then I'll run outta battery by the end of the day.
Near as I can see cell phones hit a plateau 4 years ago. And unless you have a phone with built in obsoletence - there's no reason to upgrade anymore for the average user.
Eventually, when your phones gives out,.consider a pre-rooted Fairphone.
5 year warranty, decade long software support, and everything is easily user replaceable including the battery.
The steps are in this order. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Keep your own phone for now to reduce
I looked at this today. Aside from the initial investment this seems to be amazing.
Makes me with I cared more about my privacy to take advantage of the options.
And that I had the motivation to learn more phone based programming...
I've book marked it for future investment
Wow! That sounds right up my alley.
I found out the last time I bricked my phone that the number of people willing to help me had gone from 'help in minutes - live help' to 'answers via a forum - hours and days response time' and that's why my phone hasn't changed anything major in 8 months. I'm too afraid to mess anything up.
I ain't reading this but I would like to. Anyone got a paywall free version? I tried 12ft.io to no avail.
Does anyone have a full article?
It's not about more reusable hardware it's about software being constrained to support existing hardware rather than ditch it to save a fee bucks on development.
Yep. I've had a pixel 6 for the past 2 years. It's still phenomenal. Zero issues with it. I'm keeping it another year.
I still use my Galaxy S8. Works just fine, could use a new battery.
On a s7 edge right now, but it's really showing its age
I still use my S9.
Actually after 2 years I got a S21 or whatever and gave the S9 to my daughter. But that one died after 2 years, so I took back the S9 and have been using it for another year.
I sill have my s9. I have had it for years, but I think next year I might change, only because this ones battery is starting to drain a little toofast.
My last phone had a cracked screen, loose USB-c charging port that required me to wiggle the cable to charge it, and a battery that drained the last 20% in about an hour. Finally I upgraded, but I still use that last one, plugged in with the wire taped to the back so it stays there, as my streaming box
I bought a second hand flagship from 2019 and surprisingly seamless keeping up with the new ones. And always keeping it on an optimized manner. The only apple device i have is ipod touch 6th gen, yes its old but still working serving my music needs. Also bose speakers from 2000s they get dusty pretty easy but still functioning up to this day.
Samsung S21 Ultra that I got in September of 2021
I'll probably go another year before upgrading, depending on how much it makes sense financially.
I got my phone for free, thankfully, from Visible. They were going to make me upgrade, but I never did and they just decided to send me a new phone instead.
First time I've gotten a new phone for free since I was a kid.
Somewhat related. My grandpa has had a Nokia flip phone since I was a kid. It's around 20 years old. It's survived so much abuse. He's replaced the battery in it about a dozen times. He got a call last year from ATT saying due to the 3G shut off and other network changes his phone will no longer work. They upgraded his plan and sent him an S21 all for free. First new phone he's ever had since the Nokia. I'm dreading the experience in 3-4 years when he calls me that the battery sucks and shit acting up.
He could sell the S21 and get a Fairphone instead? At least then the battery is still replaceable along with other components.
The default wallpaper looks so much like testicles photographed from below and I can't unsee it
I was skimming the comments just for this, I'm baffled by nobody else seeing what I saw! Though I see a butt. Why aren't people mentioning that weird image?
My old iPhone phone gets sent to a developing country to be used by another person.
It’s not going to landfill just yet.
Jailbroken ios 15 dopamine iPhone 12 user:
“Yeah I’m not upgrading for a long time “
its not some conspiracy. the more complex, durable and water proof a phone is, the harder its going to be to repair or replace a component or battery. the nice thing is that now that the technology is mature and basically good enough to do anything fairly well, people won't need to upgrade for tech or feature reasons anymore. Now it will just be a trade-off between durability and water/dirt resistance, and repairability.
Also, people have no clue how to care for batteries. phones get left in hot cars at 100% charge, left in the sun at the beach at 100%. There is no BMS or hardware battery protection mechanism that can protect against that. Those batteries are fucked and will need to be replaced. And replacement means breaking the water seal around the phone, so it's annoying and expensive. it's just the way it is. you are responsible for your battery, and the better you treat it, the longer it will last.
That waterproof/durability argument doesn't really hold up. We had waterproof, durable Android phones with user replaceable batteries a decade ago. They were made primarily of plastic, and had a nice thick gasket around the battery cover.
That's part of the problem with all these phones made of "premium" materials like glass and titanium. They serve no functional purpose, they only make the phone more expensive and less repairable. And of course, both of those things are great for manufacturers that want to sell you a new phone when you drop it ONE time and the glass front and back crack.
Back when I had a plastic phone I didn't even use a case, I beat the hell out of it and it never broke, and I replaced the battery myself in thirty seconds.
I laugh at the stupid titanium thing on the iPhone. It's such a stupid marketing ploy by Apple. Like, it's impressive of course, from a manufacturing and engineering point of view, working with titanium is always difficult and challenging. But Jerry Rig Everything disassembled the thing and the titanium is a 1mm veneer around the border of the phone. It has absolutely no structural or protective function at all. The frame is cheap and reliable old aluminum. And the titanium is covered in a disgusting plastic coat that peels and scratches just as easily as any paint over aluminum or plastic. It's such an obvious scam made to justify overcharging for a boring, dull and standard phone.
We have had watertight user serviceable with external batteries handheld amateur radios for decades. Your arguments are baloney. Phones are only this way because manufacturers want them to be this way.
but they are nowhere close to as thin, and nowhere close to the same complexity