Store making me feel like an outcast because of privacy concerns
Store making me feel like an outcast because of privacy concerns
Okay the title is a bit exaggerated, but honestly not far off. This post is very mundane and a bit long, but thought it fits the community.
I'm visiting my home country and went shopping for pants, there were "30% off everything!" signs with a tiny text underneath that said "member discount" (don't have membership). Not a problem, did not notice and I don't care for such marketing tricks to get you into the store but okay.
Picked up couple of pants, went to the cashier and they asked me "do you have our membership?" - I answered no and expected the follow up question whether I'd like to join, but, to my positive surprise the cashier just happily responded "okay, not a problem!" and continued to bag my stuff.
I stood ready to pay and then the cashier said "now I just need your phone number and you can pay". Hold up. What. I did not expect that, I honestly had a burst of anger inside me (never gonna take it on a cashier, they are just doing their job). I asked nicely why do I need to give my phone number and I was told that to register me as a member so I can get the discount.
I declined and said I don't want to join and would like to just pay.
The entire interaction after questioning why they need my phone number was awkward, as if I had been the first person to decline, the weirdo, aluminum foil hat wearing hermit.
This was just one of many interactions in the recent years that make me feel as if I was a weirdo for not sharing all my info around. The worst is when everyone keeps telling me "its just an app, just download it and use that why do you make things complicated" or "just sign up you don't need to pay anything".
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(Your Area Code) 867-5309. None of the younger store clerks know the song reference when I give them this number. But I get chuckles from older folks in line behind me
There's usually already an account with that number, so just try it out. You probably don't even need to actually open an account. BTW, if you do open an account, don't expect that a fake phone number is going to keep you anonymous. Everything is linked these days. All of the big data brokers are buying and selling information to each other. The second you swipe a card, it's going to match that card to real information from some random online purchase 95 years ago, and they'll have all of your real information, including political preferences, address, phone number, all of your email addresses, ethnicity, height, weight, sexual preferences, everything. They have it all, and it's all linked to every credit card you have ever used.
Pay cash when available, keep cards for when it’s not or it’d be a hassle (your discretion).
I use this everywhere. Regularly get discounts on gasoline.
I just search online for the stores number and use that. They can bear the burden of their own bullshit spam
This only works if you're from a country with 7 digit phone numbers.
I don't get it either. I would rather use 8-800-555-35-35 because of the catchy meme ad.
What's the reference?
How about [your area code] 800-8135?
Or give a 900 area code.
I had this experience once in an Ikea, of all places. I calmly told the clerk that according to local laws (which I cited), it was illegal for them to demand that information from me (phone number and post code) to sell me anything, and if the computer wouldn’t let them do it, then they should call a manager for an override.
When the manager came, the clerk said “this person refuses to give me their info” — to which I added, “your computer refuses to comply with the law; please override and then notify HQ that they are in contravention of the law and liable for significant fines.”
The next time I went in, they still asked me for the info, but the clerk was able to override. I suspect they just put in fake info for everyone who refused to supply it.
Well done for taking a stand. The problem, as ever, is that most people prefer to comply obediently even if it feels wrong. And then next thing we know, it becomes standard practice.
BTW I have been in your situation and responded similarly. Usually it ends in the clerk inputting dummy info, sometimes after I irritably tell them to do so.
I can imagine that the tactic used on me works - same as making the hide/close/disagree button small. Dark Patterns in real life.
Maybe just an awkward sales agent, or they thought you were mad at them for in their mind trying to help. I decline phone number and zip code all the time. Also been using someone else's phone number at grocery stores for years -- started by mistake. I don't care about accumulated points or whatever but discounts at grocery store are pretty significant for me.
But I understand your frustration in general. Keep up the good fight :)
Any time a store asks for a phone number, I use the local area code followed by 867-5309, and 9/10 times it works
How is Jenny and does Tommy know?
What's frustrating is that they're not real discounts. The Club Price is the regular price, and you have to agree to tracking in order to not pay above retail.
I can relate, and agree that maybe the cashier found it just as awkward. Tried to be as nice as possible because I know its a tough job!
Thank you and you too, fellow privacy enjoyer!
Yeah, I think this was just a hard sell, and it works. My friend and I were apartment shopping and had already checked out a few places. Then we arrived to look at another complex and after meeting with them, we said we'd let them know if we'd like to move forward. They were very friendly, but pushy, saying "no, you don't have to do that", "you're moving in here!", that kind of stuff. Being naive and lazy, we just said okay and took the path of least resistance. Oh well, gotta live somewhere!
Everyone's approaching this from the privacy aspect, but the real reason isn't that the cashier thought you were weird, they're just underpaid and under a lot of pressure from management to try multiple times and in some cases they even get written up for not doing it because it's deemed part of their job. They hate it just as much as you. Same when you try to cancel your cable subscription or whatever: the calls are recorded and their performance is monitored and they make damn sure they try at least 3 times to upsell you, even when it's painfully obvious you're done with them.
Just politely decline until they asked however many times they're required to ask and move on.
I did politely decline and didn't want to make a fuss about it - the title is bit exaggerated and from outside perspective it probably wasn't that dramatic.
I know that the cashier is just doing their job and I didn't want to make their day any harder than it probably already was. I smiled, thanked and left right after paying.
Hope I don't sound like a karen, just wanted to share my mundane experience in this community since I really love the discussion that is going on in this thread. I do hope that all of us in this community still remember the human when interacting with people in the real world.
... they're just underpaid and under a lot of pressure from management to try multiple times and in some cases they even get written up for not doing it because it's deemed part of their job. They hate it just as much as you.
I've worked retail and call centre jobs and I can assure you this is many people (at least those who are not too exhausted to care). These workers are constantly pressured to enshitify their service at the expense of theirs and the customer's experience.
I haven't worked a counter in over a decade, so can only imagine it's got worse.
Stores will never respect your privacy or data, so you have no obligation to respect a corporation’s expectation of truth.
Just have memorized fake data ready for bullshit like this, say it when asked. Then the retail person who cares even less than you about it (but is forced to pretend they do, in order to survive) can get to their break faster. Win win
Very good point, it seems to be the most popular advice in this thread and will try this next time!
Yeah in Australia I just use my home phone landline number converted to a mobile number, first 2 numbers are state code so like 02 1234 5678, mobile numbers are the same but 04 at the start. No idea if it is someone else's number but I haven't clashed yet.
I use 0400 000 000. I've had a couple of looks, but just smile and nod. I also have a spam that's called <name>'[email protected]. I should make a spam account without my name though. I never log in. It might be dead by now.
Every time this happens to me, the clerk/cashier just shrugs and is like, "okay". They get it, but are obligated to try anyway. The best you can do is be polite.
100% would never want to make their day tougher than it already probably is.
This hermit politely declined, paid, thanked, and left. The anger I felt was towards the retail company and the clerk doesn't need to witness that.
I was looking at ISPs yesterday as my current contract ran out so they're taking the opportunity to wring me for all my money. One place I looked at has a regular price and "members price" for every plan. I go to see what a membership entails and it points me to download an app. No clue if the membership is free or not because I don't want or need an app for every utility and purchase I make. People like you and I are not the norm but from my viewpoint you're being reasonable and the world has lost all sense of normalcy and reason.
That is just it. An app for everything, when it could just be a website you login to if you absolutely must have an account for something.
I'm glad I'm getting some peer support here and glad to hear similar stories.
From a privacy point of view, it makes pefect sense to not share your phone number with a merchant. The only buisness you have with them is a single transaction, they don't need any more information about you other than knowing that you paid.
Agreed. It used be worse here - at some point merchants wanted your social security number to create a unique customer identifier.
I will not describe how angry I felt hearing a shoe store clerk ask for my social security number (again, did not lash out at the clerk), but I was angry.
That thankfully did not last long (iirc).
"Would you like to donate money to us that we pretty pretty promise will go to some vague charity while we reap the tax benefits? No? Are you sure? Fine, we'll just ask you next time (regardless of your answer this time)."
Feed the hunger act of 2014. Allows restaurant corporations to avoid taxes on revenue as long as it comes from the customers as a donation.
Would you like to donate to the Cut Child Hunger in Half fund?
Plot twist: Literally
The last time I bought a Mac was like 10 years ago, at an independent computer shop that specialized in them. The person at the register insisted on getting my personal info "because Apple needed it" but I didn't want to give it. The person at the register very slowly sauntered up to their manager, had a long discussion, and eventually they figured something out because I suddenly didn't need to give my info. It was kind of nervewracking because I was paying cash and I was like: what if I hand it over, and they change their mind? It's not like I could call the cops, I'm the wrong demographic.
Anyway, whenever I thought about getting an Apple system, I remembered that experience and went with something else.
When I worked retail, I never asked for phone or address or anything. If they volunteered it, I’d do it, but I never asked. Management talked to me about it several times and I just kept not doing it. I think they kept me on in busy times because I could blast through any line of customers faster than anyone else (I wonder why 🤔)
Appreciate people like you!
This is sadly very common where I'm from, except you don't even get a discount from it. I've taken to just politely declining, since I'm sure the person working the cash is probably pressured to get people to give their personal info.
"And can get your email?"
"No thank you"
"I need your email for the receipt"
"I appreciate it but no thank you"
It's a slight non sequitur while still being polite. Saying "no thank you" when someone is pressuring you works well in many situations.
I think your misinterpreting your own social anxieties as being made to feel like an "outcast".
The fact of the matter is it's just not normal to question why a store wants your phone number and I'm sure the cashier was taken aback by the whole situation.
Convenience, not privacy, is the norm. There is going to be tons and tons of awkward social interactions when you go against social norms. Accept it and be proud your advocating for your privacy.
Yeah the title is a bit of an exaggeration of my feelings and as you mentioned, I was a bit anxious too since I have been abroad for quite a long time (and encountered something I did not expect in what I thought was an environment that could not surprise me).
Agreed, it could very well be that I was the first customer to question since the cashier started working there.
Thanks for the uplifting comment!
Another way they get your phone number is mandatory SMS 2FA login. The Dunkin Donuts app does this shitty behavior.
Why is there a dunkin donuts app?
Why is there still Dunkin Donuts?
Most likely used to get discounts but you pay with your information.
I stood ready to pay and then the cashier said "now I just need your phone number and you can pay". Hold up. What. I did not expect that, I honestly had a burst of anger inside me (never gonna take it on a cashier, they are just doing their job). I asked nicely why do I need to give my phone number and I was told that to register me as a member so I can get the discount.
"Sure thing, It's +XX 111 222 3333" Just give them garbage.
That's probably exactly what I'll be doing from now on. Was hoping for the simple "would you like to join?" but guess that's out of style.
I think the cashier was under the assumption that you wanted the discount, and asked at the end instead of immediately after you said you weren't already a member. It doesn't feel rude or invasive, from my perspective, maybe just phrased as an underpaid employee.
What I do recommend is a VOIP phone number and attached separate email for all marketing purposes. They can track and sell that as much as they'd like without impacting your personal details or necessary accounts.
I'm a casher in the US of fuckin A and I can assure you that we don't care on a personal level what you do. If someone not having or wanting to enter a phone number at the register is the weirdest customer thing that happens in a shift then it's the most relaxed shift of my damn life.
I asked nicely why do I need to give my phone number and I was told that to register me as a member so I can get the discount.
I declined and said I don’t want to join and would like to just pay.
I've just said "I don't have one" when asked this for awhile. This never seems the phase the cashiers, I'm guessing they know what that really means. Half the time I still get whatever discount, though I've never tried to sign up for a membership saying that.
If it's an online form my phone number is just (local area code)555–5555. I've never had that not take, except for one case where it automatically enabled 2-factor auth and I had to create a new account.
Damn, should've tried that! Thanks for the tip!
I miss print coupons. Hearing "get the app" or "there's an app for it" makes me flinch these days.
A long time ago they wanted a phone number for me to get a hair cut. She looked at me like I was crazy when I said no.
"But then how am I going to harass you endlessly for years to come?"
That woman needs to get psychiatric treatment lol
Best not to overthink it - The sales clerk is trained to ask for this stuff.
Luckily most times I encounter this I just tell them no I don't have a phone number with them & continue checkout like normal. Sometimes that means not getting a sale price on something but usually I avoid those type of member-specific sales anyway.
And worst case - Just make something up. At Best Buy a sales rep absolutely refused to sell me something from the mobile dept without my info. Which didn't make sense because earlier I had bought something at that same Best Buy with a different rep & that rep took my order without my info no problem (she said she had to enter a phone number but just entered Best Buy's).
Yet this particular sales rep refused to proceed without info, so yeah he got an entire fictional name/address/phone/email on the spot.
Yeah at no point was I mad at the clerk and didn't show it at all that I was boiling inside, because its just their job and they have no say in it.
Haven't tried to say I don't have a number or come up with a fake number, but read this in the thread earlier and will probably give it a try next time!
No point asking them to justify why they have to ask, they probably don't even know. Just say "Sorry, I don't give that out". I've never had a store push back after that - they probably get it all the time.
Why not lie ? My phone number is 526-432-8267
It’s been more than 20y since the first time I remember sternly declining to give either a phone number or postal code to a cashier in a retail shop. It pissed me off then and still pissed me off now.
I do this all the time.
"Can I have your address?"
"For a haircut? No, will it let you skip it? Ok good do that then, thanks. I don't need 50 new mailers a month about damn haircuts, you feel me."
Problem solved, they always just say "yeah I hear that."
“I don’t have one” is what I typically say lol
I realized a few years ago that my GF inadvertently solved this issue for me: She likes registering for anything that provides a discount, so I use her phone number.
"Are you a member?"
"Nope, but my GF probably is..", and 90% of the time I am correct.When I was younger and lived at home we had "family accounts". When I went to a store I picked up the "family card" and used that. So similar experience!
My wife is the same way. She doesn't care so I just use her phone number for everything. But then she wonders why she gets more spam calls than me...
Why don't you just lie ... Each time a different name surname email address physical address phone number ... Yeah sometimes it's Mandatory to use a real address for delivery purposes just put a random name in and add a post-it on the doorbell saing something on the line of leave packages for Crudelia demon here please. Temp mail for most discounts is enough... The test cases in which they do not only ask for your phone but also want to verify it it's pretty slim ...
Some email services will let you append arbitrary strings to the end of your email address with a +. Whenever a sales associate asks for my email to sign up for discounts, I give them [email protected]. I love the looks I get for that.
Wow that's so cool hope proton does
That's the advice I've gotten here pretty much, and will probably deal with it in that way from now on!
It is sad that we have to do that, but don't think this will change any time soon.
Yeah usual 2024 dystopia
I have a second SIM that I use for situations where I don't want to give out my real number.
It's a traditional PAYG SIM where I pay for a tiny bit of credit and it lasts until I use it. I need to make a billable once every few months to keep it active. So I just text myself once every couple of months. The $10 I put on it will last a few years before I need to top it up. Or I could just 'burn' it and get a new one.
Missing the entire fucking point, but that's typical for braindead .ml users I guess.
Please enlighten me at this point I'm curious
Nah, you're not abnormal. I've had the same thing happen at multiple store. The most invasive has been Microcenter; they tell me that I have to give them my email in order to wait in line for tech support, and then bombard me with spam. Every time I buy something new there, I have to tell the cashier to NOT use the address on file that they won't unlink from my bank card.
Microcenter hasn’t been nearly the worst of it for me, but I can confirm the spam side of it. I had to give them my email for some part warranties. However the actual emails in my case was just a single click to unsubscribe or change the preferences (It’s been a while, don’t remember which) and it was done just like that. It’s still a little infuriating that I have to give them my email though, let alone the spam that comes along side it.
Yeah, but every time I have to buy something new, they automatically sign me up again. They never give me an opt-out.
Here it's similar. I've found out that if to the question
do you have our membership?
I respond "No, thank you", they often understand correctly and don't assume I want to set one up
Now I know! I was positively surprised when they didn't ask the follow-up question, but I see now they have been trained to not ask it at all.
To be fair to the cashier, they were just trying to do something nice for you and getting you a free discount. I doubt that any "training" was involved, they probably didn't think that anyone would refuse to give a phone number for a discount.
Most people wouldn't care, but I used to get so any spam calls that it wasn't worth the risk anymore.
I wonder where you live that that happened. In America you're expected to say no, cashiers don't care. They don't get paid enough to.
This happened in Finland, but I didn't want to specify it to spark a universal conversation, which succeeded!
I know people from all around the globe deal with privacy issues and hoped that others would share their experiences.
They are told to try to convince people to sign up. So they're going to act manipulative in order to get you to. It's just part of their job. Just keep refusing and don't think much of it.
Yeah, I'm a bit sad that even offline shopping is showing clear signs of dark patterns, but guess it is just so.
Nothing against someone just doing their job though. Can't always choose where you get your living from.
I encountered this in a computer club (I mean the place where you play per hour to play computer games on a good PC if you lack a suitable one at home). The accounts there were using phone numbers as usernames, and apparently if one is used, it would have to be verified. However, after refusing I was just given one-time accounts every time (with a random string of digits as the username), I just couldn't save unspent time for another visit so had to pay precisely. Funnily enough, the host herself the first time mentioned one-time phone number rental services for this reason)
Nice of them to atleast offer an alternative!
Caring for your Privacy and the general privacy of society in the aggregate, given the increasing data mining, collecting, advertising and other trends is the normal mindset.
Getting propagandised and brainwashed into thinking that paying, with your own money for literal microphoned devices operated by for-profit-focused Corps that will listen in and record you so as to give you lazy weather updates or help you play a song, or purchase knick-knacks online in exchanhe is the crazy take.
Getting you to feel ackward is the point of peer-pressure and their Marketing. Just ignore it. You are not in the wrong.
Just give made up number instead of making a big deal
If you're visiting from another country, try giving them a number from there (real or fake). What are the odds that their system can cope with international codes?
That could also work, if their system allows more digits than the standard digit length of their own phone numbers.
I've bumped into this issue myself when trying to fill my second phone number into input fields which require me to pass a number I actually use at the moment into systems where I do want to give them my phone number...
Alternate option, set up a premium number and profit!
I don't have a phone or address, I am unhoused.
Give fake information every time. Waste the cashiers time with questions. Make them pay for it.
Ah, I was wondering where all the Karens went.
Cool assumption bro. Hope that works out for you.
I am never rude to the poor people that have to work retail. I know the pain; I have been on the other side of the counter.What I'm talking about is malicious compliance.
They tell the cashiers to push the program and be helpful? Fine. I will let that cashier be the most helpful employee ever and at the same time gum up the company data collection system with fake information.
At the same time as more punshment to the company they will see reduced sales and throughput requiring additional cashiers (more hours/pay for those people).
But please bring on the fake internet point brigade.
Be as rude, as harmful and as immoral to them as legally possible. These advertising system workers don't deserve anything good.
/s, right?
No.
Not to retail workers. The vast majority of them are underpaid and overworked. Between the stressful nature of a job like that and the various stresses that tend to come along with being an adult working for anywhere near minimum wage they probably don't have the mental bandwidth to care about anything beyond their ability to get by. You're not going to change anything by being a dick to someone like that.
Now if you happen to run into a developer or similarly paid person for a company like Meta or Google, absolutely be a dick to them. They've chosen to work for evil and have the means to choose otherwise. Acute social pressure could actually make them care and choose something else.
You're very kind, mister/miss. On the other hand, my opinion is very radical. The problem is that retail workers not only are a part of the system but also they often mind it and argue when you try not to opt in for privacy-hostile memberships. Some of them may do it because of stress but it's impossible to know every one's case so just ruining lives of all of them should be good enough. After all if they didn't care, they wouldn't mind us opting out.