Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Lashes Out at 'Predatory' Jill Stein

More importantly, if you are voting for her because of the environment, voting for stein is actually harmful to that goal because it helps trump win, which means instead of making baby steps in the right direction, we'll run full steam in the wrong direction.

Fascists and Putin are sure to support her however they can. Cue the trolls.

I would absolutely vote Green but to do so would be unthinkable until we have ranked choice voting. We should band all the leftists together for one big push to get that enacted everywhere. Once we do that we can go back to our divisive bickering.

The trouble with supporting a third party -- and I say this as someone inclined to support a third party -- is that anybody who actually does it is either (a) an idiot who doesn't understand the game theory of first-past-the-post voting, or (b) an incredibly fringe nutjob. The result is that all third parties absolutely destroy all their credibility and ruin any chance of getting more mainstream.

If you're a third-party-inclined person who isn't an idiot or a nutjob, your only real option is to vote for Democrats in general, and ones who support ranked choice voting in particular (because you sure as Hell aren't gonna get it from the Republicans), and then switch to your third party of choice only after ranked-choice voting is passed.

Libertarians == conservatives who smoke weed

The DSA has far more electeds in every level of the government, and they've managed to do it without spoiling presidential elections. It's easy, all you have to do is run through the Democratic Party primaries, they figured it out decades ago, curious that Jill Stein and the Greens somehow didn't.

Across an entire nation, they have 140 whole offices. They have more people on their party organizing committee than people in office. None of those 140 are even at the level of state legislature, despite there being many races with unopposed Democrats that only have a few thousand total votes cast in them.

The last election for my state rep had 4,000 votes cast. He had a single opponent from a party I've never heard of who got 1,000 of them. There were more candidates running under that low name ID and sparesly funded local party than there were Green candidates. If they were a real party trying to advance progressive causes, this would be an ideal place to build local representation. Single-party state, tons of DINOs to challenge from the left, and low turnout that could make successful challenges possible.

Wow, 143 elected offices is massive. Such prestigious positions as "Neighborhood Council", "Conservation District", "Town Commission", "Planning Group", "Park Commission" (Pawnee reference??), "Select Board", "Zoning Board of Appeals Alternate", "Water District Board of Commissioners", "School Committee", "Advisory Neighborhood Commission", and gasp what's this? The mayor of a California town of 22,000 people? Why if all of them banded together and moved to Connecticut (and somehow became popular with the residents there), they could collectively make almost 77% of an entire Connecticut General Assembly and literally no other offices including mayorships, governorships, all of the other state legislatures and the federal legislature, and all the god-knows-how-many positions in local governments.

That's a drop of LSD in a lake.

I honestly can’t recall if it was some sort of geopolitical analysis in the comments or actual news anymore, but years ago I read that climate change and the collapse of the North Atlantic Current would eventually open up vast areas of Siberia to mining/drilling, improve farming conditions in Russia, harm farming, solar, and wind in Western Europe, while dropping the temps in Western Europe. It would also raise temps in the eastern/southern U.S. and make hurricanes more dangerous and economically damaging along the entire Atlantic and Gulf coasts.
What I read concluded that climate change would be a major boon to Russia and any sensible leader there would want to facilitate it.

Wasn't there a cushy job at a military contractor he could have filled? Or was he so bad that nobody would offer him one?

>Third-party fringe candidate who gets less than 1% of the vote having dinner with Putin, Trump's national security advisor who was later arrested for lying to the FBI about his ties to Russia, and several major Russian political figures before an election in which Russian interference provably helped Trump win.

>The US president acting in an official capacity and meeting with the leader of a major world power.

"They're the same picture."

Boy, Russian bots Jill Stein stans are really tripping over each other to see who's the biggest, dumbest idiot, aren't they?

It's great that they can pretend that'd be the case while standing literally no possible risk of being elected. It's easy to stand by your morals when there is no risk at all of having to defend or enact them.

Then they should join the DNC and reform it from the inside. Join the progressive movement. Shift the Dems back to the center-left. All they’re doing as a separate party is siphon votes away from DNC, which gives an advantage to the RNC, which erodes their own efforts to push green policies.

With what power? If the Green party continues doing nothing, gaining no local seats, no congressional seats, then how are they protecting environmental policy?

What actions have the Greens taken to inspire your confidence?

I don’t. They’re not a serious party, and due to how shitty our electoral process is, all they do at the end of the day is strip votes from the Democratic candidates.

I wish that wasn’t how our elections worked, but it is. Pretending that’s not the case is a self-defeating strategy.

• Populist.

I trust Greens to protect environmental policies much more than the DNC

Idk if I "trust" them to do anything, per say. I've never seen a Green candidate assume office.

But the argument I see from Democrats is that you have to vote for the liberal guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry or you'll get the conservative guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry, instead. My current crop of Dem-aligned city and state officials are hugely in the tank for the petroleum industry, they've done little more than greenwashing when it comes to waste management and sustainable development in their districts, and they are openly hostile to environmental groups in town.

If the Green Party becomes the refuge for people disillusioned with the O&G aligned local democrats, who is to blame for that? Insidious Machiavellian Jill Stein? Nefarious GOP ratfvckers? The shadowy hand of Vladimir Putin? Or the Democrats who consistently fail to deliver mass transit, waste recycling, and environmental regulation, even within their base strongholds?

Jill seems to think the Dems are running Biden.

Are those the arguments you think that are siphoning off democratic voters?

So she's only a threat in the system we actually have?

Absolutely right. All the people in my mentions are mad at this fact. I keep trying to tell them that it doesn't matter what Stein's whole platform is, as long as she has a saner opinion than the dems on genocide, she will be an alternative for a lot of people. Her voters know she won't win, but they will not vote in support of a genocide! It's not "single issue voting", it's having a moral baseline.

Calling for an arms embargo is productive.

It's not clear to me what you mean here. Are you saying that AOC is attacking Jill Stein in order to bolster her own "leftist cred", or that Jill Stein is chasing "leftist cred" by attacking democrats?

If it's the second one, then I would just refer you back to my previous comment. Any attacks from Jill Stein could be easily defused by adopting a few popular planks. If you actually meant it the first way, then yeah I kind of agree!

Pro-fracking, pro having a fascist in their Cabinet, pro-war profiteering even during a genocide, and you call it the most left-leaning ticket in ages? I hate that I have to agree, but I don't think it's as strong of a point as you'd like it to be.

Why would they stop now in that case? "More left-leaning than any dem ticket in ages" is not a very high bar. Shit, it's so low, you can't even slip "opposes genocide" under it!

I do think RCV would be a better system than what we have now, but I have very little confidence that it could ever be implemented without some loopholes that would essentially undermine it.

Hurrdurr

Lots of people still think Greenpeace is about renewable energy and not funded by oil companies

Just look at Jill Steins Twitter. She is basically Gaza and attacks on the Democrats. She exclusivly attacks the Democrats. No attacks at all on Trump or the Republicans in general. She also has no problem with climate change or enviromental problems. That is very intressting for a supposed Green Party.

Other countries with similar electoral systems have Green parties with seats in national parliaments. Compare that with the UK Green Party. They are perfectly able to not just talk about Gaza, but also about UBI, more renewables, public transit, 4 day workweek and so many more left issues.

Jill Stein is the quintessential politician who will say anything to get elected. She will traffic in 9/11 truthing if asked or antivax nonsense in spite of being a pediatrician.

its gonna blow your mind but H. Clinton is not running in the current US presidential election and hasnt been a political operative for 8 years. Tough to digest, I know.

The spoiler effect is a geometric problem within FPTP voting systems, it has nothing to do with weak stances/lack of common interests of a given candidate.

A 3rd party vote is a vote for neither but with a nod toward where we'd like to head. I loath the DNC just slightly more than the old RNC. With the RNC becoming a MAGA party, I could never vote for one of their candidates. When our vote is fascism or a DNC status quo I'll plug my nose like I did for Hillary and vote for whoever the DNC puts up. I'd really like to see the non DNC preferred candidate win the primary in 2028 and have the progressive arm of the party have significant clout.
And yes, the DNC has unwavering support for Israel. What more proof do you need than Biden still sending weapons to them while a genocide is taking place? The Prog wing in the party is a great voice, but they have little clout and AIPAC has been effective at getting them out.

I always thought a parliamentary system made more sense so we could vote for parties that aligned more closely with our ideals and our ideals for our nation. France is currently showing how the divide between right wing nationalism, the leave it as it is people, and those who want more social and economic equity can still lead to deadlock as much as a 2 party system can. The powerful are so powerful now and our information is controlled by so few, with so little social responsibility or regard for the media as a watchdog over the powerful. They are the powerful trying to keep us in the dark.

Not imo. One side wants to kill me with no regulations on air, water, and food so a shit sandwich would be acceptable to them if it lines their benefactors pockets. The other side may want to get me to eat cauliflower because not only is it good for me but it lines their benefactors pockets

We may be doing a lot of choosing the lesser evil but gd there is such a huge margin between them right now. I am not willing to give a rapist traitor a 2nd chance to damage the country more than he already did. Hell I expect him to try and pull off something right on election day and if not that a Jan 6th 2.0 right after it. Putting the country into a civil war would not bother the diaper wearing orange shit sandwich in the slightest.

I will not at all be shocked if republicans under trumps command try to push election certification to the house while complaining of fraud that didn't happen.

She should work harder and maybe she'll accomplish as much as Jill Stein has in congress.

the system devised by wealthy landowners to keep power out of the hands of common people isn't actually a democracy? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say!

I would argue that. FPTP, you either vote tactically or the vote doesn't count towards the final results. That's not real democracy to me.

off the top of my head, she's the only one calling for a full arms embargo of Israel, and also the only one pushing for medicare for all. she has also consistently criticized trump and biden's immigration policies. all of this aligns with my interests, and so she is who I will most likely vote for.

The green party has never held a local office

this is wrong. As of the November 7, 2023 elections, at least 142 Greens hold elected office. I found this with 2 seconds of googling.

That's a congressional campaign website, not a presidential campaign website.

does fuck all for years and springs up when it's convenient

Oh I didn't know she was a Democrat.

See also:

legitimately a threat

LMAO

The more you read, the funnier it gets 🤣 what a mook

Laugh all you want

Yeah, right? AOC is a bad ass until her party is suddenly unfavorable because some of them but not her aren’t supporting Gaza hard enough. But unsurprisingly, none of these people ever complain about Uyghur genocide—the other Muslims.

It’s easy for Jill to be hard on this topic because she knows the presidency is out of her reach. But AOC is still in play, and sadly—in the actual world we live in—she has to play the game to win.

Obviously they meant "tied for the Muslim vote"

https://www.cair.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/CAIRMuslimVoterSurvey.pdf

This data is echoed by FiveThirtyEight

AOC has always been garbage. As requested

LOL yes I think that went well over the heads of some.