A woman made a vague threat to a healthcare company – does she really deserve up to 15 years in prison?
A woman made a vague threat to a healthcare company – does she really deserve up to 15 years in prison?
No
Betteridge’s Law of Headlines. Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word “No.”
/thread
No need to scroll further, folks.
trump stole 500 million dollars from the state of ny... rapists spend less than a decade
this is a warning to poor people
Reminds me of the case way back in the day with someone who pirated music getting insane fines and how it was juxtaposed with the relatively small settlement an airline had to pay when its negligence actually killed people.
It seems I remember Kim Dotcom
listinglosing his extradition case, as well.
She hasn't been sentenced and the maximum for rape is
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For Aggravated sexual abuse with children: Life imprisonment without parole or any term not less than 30 years
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For all other Federal Sexual Abuse cases: Life without parole or any other term
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Of course not, but they're going to make an example out of her to deter the rest of the proles.
You know what? Everyone deserves freedom of speech, and threatening healthcare CEOs is not, in my opinion, a breach of it. There is a huge difference between threatening vulnerable minorities and threatening invulnerable minorities.
Doesn’t a threat have to be credible? As in you can make a threat if you’d like to but it has to actually be a legitimate threat. This isn’t that.
Realistically unless someone says this phrase and has google searches of the CEOs home address, this isn’t a credible threat at all.
"Freedom of speech" in US Law means that the government cannot suppress ideas, expressions, or beliefs so long as those ideas or beliefs do not harm specific peoples, nor negatively impact public health and morals, nor negatively impact national security. In some cases, it isn't allowed to promote harm of protected classes including race, religion, skin color, gender, or disability, but in the USA that often becomes a civil matter.
If I had my way we'd be even more strict about it: hate speech would be an actual crime and sexual orientations would also be protected classes.
So a woman quoting a murderer who assassinated an insurance company CEO, directly sending that quote to the insurance company that denied her claim, is not and will never be covered by freedom of speech.
Shit like this is going to happen until us poors remember our place.
This reminds me of Minority Report. Arrested by the pre-crime unit.
Guilty without the crime actually being committed.
If her crime is threatening then that actually is what she did, in the past.
The punishment of 15 years is just way over the top
That's not what she did. There are legal standards for what constitutes a threat, and what she said isn't one.
I hope this case gets some attention too. This is some ginned up bullshit. We can’t let them stomp us into silence.
I’m not celebrating a murder, this is some fucked up shit in many dimensions and I would prefer a different timeline.
But remember we are not children who need to bow our heads and take our scolding.
For-profit insurance companies are liable for the deaths they cause. Full stop.
How’s that for moral clarity?
She should not be charged in my opinion. It wasn’t a credible threat.
What the shootings has done is shown how many Americans are fed up with the current system.
You’re seeing stories from democrat and republicans.
I don’t condone the violence at all but he may have sparked a medical revolution in our country.
Saying (paraphrased) "you're next" is not a threat. It's an observation.
She made no threat.
This is some ginned up bullshit.
The "you're next" after referencing a high profile murder is what actually did it.
Like, that's a credible threat. 15 years is fucking insane, and context is going to matter a lot. Did she just get denied cancer treatment for her 2 year old? Or told it's not insurance's fault doctors won't prescribe opioids? Or any of a million things in between.
That's why we have trials, to find out all that stuff. And if it's a jury trial I feel juries would be sympathetic.
The 100k is the real bullshit, but not owning guns doesn't mean much. It's insanely easy to buy a gun without a background check thru private seller loopholes.
But our bond system is insane, because the it causes judges to inflate the amount 10x. If you can afford to put it up, you get it all back later. A bondsman you pay 10%, they put up 90%, and they get the whole 100% back. Your 10% is their profit. If a bondsman thinks that's a good risk, why does the court consistently over estimate the risk?
Bonds only exist so poor people are punished more than rich people.
credible
able to be believed; convincing
Did anyone really think she was coming after them after that? No. She got heated on the phone and said something she shouldn't have.
It's not nothing. What she did was wrong, and it's reasonable for it to be a crime. We don't want to always have to investigate or deal with constant threats. However, she was neither credible nor specific, which are two major criteria. (Keep that in mind when you're posting here, by the way.) She committed a crime, but not one that should be very serious.
The way they've framed her is obscene.
Thanks for the insight on the typical terms of bonds. Good info.
So eyes peeled on this one too I guess. They are making an example of her, I mean the judge plainly said so. We can’t let them get away with these excessive charges.
I didn’t kill anyone and I never will. But I will be damned if I let this moment fade into the next news cycle.
As a society, we are having the conversation about for-profit healthcare NOW!
"The car on the other side of the zipper merge is going now. You're next."
It doesn't mean I intend to do anything, I'm just observing society.
Work any phone helpdesk job and you will be threatened six ways to Sunday by people who are upset over the most minor things.
Yes this incident came after very prominent consequences for an insurer in the US, but I would be hard pressed to believe that someone who works for a company that denies people lifesaving healthcare hasn’t heard worse.
I’m not celebrating a murder
You can though, no one will stop you.
This specific murder It isn't morally wrong. It isn't hypocritical. It isn't compromising some foundational pillar of being a human.
Those who stand at the top of a capitistic, private healthcare industry made a choice to create, perpetuate, secure, and promote a system which resulted in deaths of millions for the benefit of shareholders and themselves.
You don't have to qualify your indifference or quiet your support. There is no moral quandary here.
This has literally helped people already. Anthem undid an anesthesia policy reform which would have not covered it in procedures after a certain amount of minutes
She would have never been able to be charged before the patriot act. No weapons, no capacity to act on them, vague and unspecific. Its crazy how our freedoms have been eroded and how many folks seem to think thats just fine and dandy.
I’ll never understand how people are ok with limiting other people’s freedom based on “what if”.
Indeed, when George unleashed that shit, Patriot Act, I told everyone we are one step closer to forming the SS or NKVD. Once again, we have Mango Mussolini with his merry band of racist thugs.
I have not liked it since the get go and fought it. Ugh I have these emails to a dem senator with have who came out of the military who is pretty good but to entrenched in the mindset. Still I never really felt it till this arrest. Chilling as fuck.
She's a scapegoat. They arrested her to make a public example of her. Fuck those bastards, set her free.
On the other hand when women complain about threats from stalkers the police do nothing. You might as well delete the word justice from this criminal justice system.
The system is definitely criminal alright
She absolutely does not deserve that. Isn't America the home of free speech? I guess not for the plebs!
No, the executives, BoD and major investors do.
We should erect a giant bronze statue of Luigi. Put it in a road right near UHC's headquarters in Minnesota. Make them all drive past it each and every day on the way to work.
It worked for that bullgirl in NYC, didn't it? Let's make it happen.
Where is her free speech?
Free speech is for nazis, as far as I can tell
In the freezer, next to the peaches.
Ah, so basically next to the freeze peach; got it :)
They are going to argue it's not protected under the true threat doctrine.
When a woman calls the cops because her abusive SO threatened to kill her, they can't do anything about it.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. She could have said DDD without “you people are next.”
Having said that, if we’re really judging people, and corporations are people, why isn’t the denial of health care seen as manslaughter? 70 people pass every day due to the lack of medical care in America. We have worse outcomes, shorter average life than other civilized countries.
When is a corporation sued for murder & sent to jail? I know it sounds crazy, but that’s the point. These systems aren’t making sense. They lack humanity. This is a bad, morally bankrupt system. Older Americans loves their Medicare: that’s socialism.
I’m so sick of this shit.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
They lack humanity.
If they lack humanity, why doesn't it make a right?
Hurt people hurt people. I don’t know how to fix things. But if we go around destroying one another, what will be left?
I think the system is immoral. It should be abolished. An absurd takeaway from that would be “health insurance workers should be jailed.”
I find it challenging to say our humanity is through being inhuman to one another. Wouldn’t our humanity need to come from humane action?
I’m as upset as everyone else about these machinations. Everyone is a child of someone. If we don’t remember that, all is lost.
Two wrongs don’t make a right
There was only the one wrong here, she didn't do anything wrong
I saw someone else say this, but I hope they start rounding up the incels on Twitter saying “your body, my choice” as credible rape threats if what this woman said is going to be litigated with such fervor.
She was released and all charges dropped. This was a silly farce by the judge and prosecutors from the jump
I don't think that's right. She's been released on bond to house arrest; the charges still stand.
Lol no
Prosecutors throw the book at people, sentences get reduced by dropping things, aclu better get on this and keep her from getting a stupid plea deal, and fight for free speech
Yeah, it's hard to judge how people ought to respond to plea deals, but 15 years is long enough where she doesn't have much incentive to take one unless it's for time served or probation or something tiny like that.
Because her alternative is to go into court and play all the audio and then let the jury imagine what they would do if they were getting f***** over, and let them remember all the times they've said things that are definitely not threats, but someone else could be an a****** and erroneously construe them as such. And you're always taking a gamble when you go to a jury trial, but that's not a bad gamble to take.
There is no goddamned way UHC doesn't pressure the prosecutor to drop this to avoid that recording going public because half the jury will be left with the same sentiment when they hear it. And when it is public they will have a lot more to deal with.
If this woman's lawyers are smart they call the bluff and say "why yes, let's get this out into trial, use discovery to add context, and play that recording". There's law, justice, but the most important thing sometimes when the moment is right is perception.
It's called wrong thinking from the book 1984
The US justice system is f'ed up.
We have a legal system, not a justice system.
Meanwhile customer service agents have been hearing much worse than this for decades, actual direct threats not vague comments, and no one ever gave a shit before.
That's because those threats are directed at the agents.
This threat is specific to CEO's and those in charge.
It's that simple.
Don't give them ideas
Jury Nullification is my right.
The thing about Jury Nullification is that you have to make it through the majority of a trial. 97-98% of criminal cases (in the U.S.) end in a plea deal without ever going to trial.
Sure, but that's on them. Taking a deal is always in the hands of the defendant. But if it looks like public opinion is on their side and the concept of jury Nullification has become common knowledge, that might be enough to substantially swing what's offered in those plea deals. Prosecutor might be generous to avoid the jury letting them off Scott free.
not on lemmy.world evidently
Did she say she was running for the presidency? Because in that case, she could take someone out on main street and she could grab them by the pussy too and nobody would say anything.
She should have tried to purchase a president or maybe purchase the presidency itself for a self pardon.
Joe should pardon her wtf Joe!
Free slave for the state of Florida. I mean, they might let her go in a few months, but slam that 15 years jail stay bill right on her. You really effed up on the "land of the free" over there.
That "when they came for the ..." had already happened. Years ago. Think on that. SL
No, but they are going to throw the book at potential copycats to deincentivise others. First of many, I'm sure.
Sounds more like a setup imho
Oh, I missed it it's f****** Florida. Anybody living in that state is taking their own life in their hands. No she does not deserve to have the book thrown at her but her likelihood of that happening is very high.
If Boston’s home is later found to have a bunch of disguises, a 3D-printed gun and a manifesto, I will, of course, eat my words and any hats that are available.
Those items will magically appear if needed for them to make a case.
This is so sad
Of course she doesn't, but the ruling class needs to make an example of someone - they're not about to let us peasants get away with defying them.
Long live freedom of speech!
Briana Boston is her name
She won’t see a day in jail. She never threatened. What she will see is a huge payday.
Not likely she can win a civil suit. They needed probable cause to arrest her, and QI says that even if they lacked it, they're still off the hook. The judge has absolute immunity. That's it, even if she beats the rap, she can't beat the ride.
Her first amendment rights were violated. If the state doesn’t pay, the insurance company will settle out of court
She won't see a day in jail
Interesting, interesting... I wonder where people are when they get a $100,000.00 bond...
You know what I mean.
Yes, if she doesn't shut the fuck up and not talk to the cops.
I think she's guilty (you can't be making threats like that on the heels of someone actually committing an act of violence) but even that is too much time. IDEK if she deserves jail time at all. I'd rather see her get a fine and maybe a month or two of community service.
I don't believe that "You people are next." is a direct threat.
What's the cool-down timer on the free speech special ability ?
Asking for a friend.
I don't believe that "You people are next." is a direct threat.
Sounds pretty direct to me, especially in the context of recent events. I don’t fault the CS rep at all for reporting it to her superiors and the police. Totally reasonable to be wary of copycat crimes or just similar acts of violence against healthcare insurers in general.
I don't believe that "You people are next." is a direct threat.
I'm sure you don't, but it's a reasonable interpretation of what she said.
What's the cool-down timer on the free speech special ability ?
What do you mean by "special ability"?
I don’t think she was actually making a threat, but she sure chose to sound like she was, which was fucking stupid on her part. Given how the rest of the evidence makes it clear the threat wasn’t serious, I don’t think she should be charged as such, but perhaps a lesser charge that affords her a fine or something. Can’t let people get away with that shit, but charging her like she’s making a serious threat of violence is a waste of taxpayer money.