Banning sex work is about as successful as banning drugs. All it usually does is lead to more misery for the sex workers. Which is entirely the intention, of course.
Let's not forget the other side of the equation, a lot more people would try drugs if they weren't illegal. Which is a good thing, because learning about them helps all of society.
So long as that drug use is paired by actually good rehabilitation infrastructure (like Portugal's drug abuse treatment before its unraveling)
Also, completely banning sex work makes it a lot harder to regulate.
The Scandinavian model only criminalizes the clients, so I guess making their life's worse isn't the purpose. Still I am in favor of a fully regulated market with favorable working conditions.
That model is much better but from what I heard it's still not optimal for sellers because buyers are still committing a crime so it will still need to happen far away from the law and anyone that could help protect the sellers, like in massage places and sus places of town. Otherwise no buyers would dare buy.
Way back in my senior year of high school (around 2002), we had a debate project where everyone partnered up, picked a controversial topic, picked a side of the topic, and then researched and advocated for their side to the rest of the class, including a Q&A at the end, where the class could challenge their position.
To our surprise, the two hottest girls in our class picked prostitution as their topic, and advocated for it to be legalized. The teacher was also surprised, and curious enough to let them present their topic to the class.
We all thought they were joking with their topic, to get a rise out of all the horny boys. After all, as 17/18 year olds, our experience with prostitution came from movies or TV documentaries, where it was generally shown as a disgusting and degrading act; the last resort for a woman down on her luck.
But the girls' presentation was incredibly well researched, with figures regarding the number of deaths, violent crime, drugs, and human trafficking involved in illegal prostitution, compared to Nevada's legalized prostitution since the 1970s, which had practically no numbers to report.
They even did a deep dive into a brothel in Nevada, where the women were paid very well and treated kindly and fair and not like they're just a piece of meat. Plus, they had regular checkups and practically free health care because of their profession. They even walked through the various services they provided, since some people (they serviced anyone, not just men) wanted other forms of intimacy instead of just sex. It was a safe and judgment-free environment, on both sides of the table, and the women employed there actually wanted to do the job, with the option to quit anytime. Unlike illegal prostitution, which removed the woman's autonomy over her own body and placed her in dangerous situations, exposed to violence and drugs to barely make a living.
In the end, the girls did a fantastic job on their presentation and convinced a whole class of seniors that prostitution could be an honest and respectable position, and should be legalized. I've never looked at it the same way since.
We need to seize the means of reproduction
That would be a great sign for an abortion rally.
This is funny and also begets some serious questions about who we are seizing the means of reproduction from and why they were seized in the first place. Silvia Federici offers some answers in her book Caliban and the Witch
Sex work needs legislation and unions, and work as defined by capitalism is degrading
I think they should do the fuck they want
this comment is very funny
I'm pro sex work, however:
I have mixed feelings about the current ubiquity of online sex work like onlyfans. In theory I've definitely got nothing against it but I'm worried that a lot of young women are faced with shitty economic prospects vs potentially lots of money on onlyfans. The alternatives are so poor sometimes that it feels like coercion.
I just wish young people had better options all together.
I have good news for you! The income distribution of OnlyFans creators like many other platforms follows a power law, where the top 1% earn 33% of all revenue, and the average creator only earns $150-180 each month. Don't think young women doing it tough are likely to be coerced by that.
Most of the high earners are those who already have an established audience, e.g. ex porn stars.
OnlyFans Income - How Much Do OnlyFans Creators Make? - https://supercreator.app/academy/guides/how-much-do-onlyfans-creators-make/
Only fans is an MLM scheme, and watching "content creators" brag about how awesome it is to groom the next generation is... At least ick.
Nothing wrong with sex work, as any work, when done within a healthy ecosystem. But it is still a very murky area due to the very nature of human sexuality. The lines can get blurred very easily. Not as bad as Wall Street though. That's where the real abuse is.
Wait, how is onlyfans a MLM? Is there something about how onlyfans is structured that makes it like Amway?
Not all work. Just work you have to do to not starve. We have enough resources to provide a basic living for everyone. We can then use work as an incentive for more luxuries and encourage people to explore the types of work they want to do. Like creative endeavors. Pay more incentive for the work people dislike doing but is still necessary. We'll figure out what work is actually necessary and what is just spinning wheels.
Long as it isnt forced on them, let them work
From what Ive heard about customer service jobs in the US, sex work sounds way less degrading than that.
On the flipside, you can make most jobs, including most types of sex work, not degrading
Old joke, but on topic.
A professor asks a class if anyone there would be a sex worker if they were paid $1 billion for a year. Everyone raises their hand.
He then asks if anyone in the class would do sex work for one night if the pay was $5.00?
Class is all irate. "What kind of people do you think we are?"
"I know what kind of people you are. Now we're discussing the prices."
That joke has a bit of a history
A woman I know went to Vassar College. According to her, the original version was a Harvard professor talking to an all female class.
Wouldn't be surprised if Julius Cesar heard it from Seneca.
I don't partake, but it's definitely degrading because you have to sell your body for a living just like construction or factory jobs.
Read this as "sex at work" and the second point was very confusing
First, the fact that labor is external to the worker, i.e., it does not belong to his intrinsic nature; that in his work, therefore, he does not affirm himself but denies himself, does not feel content but unhappy, does not develop freely his physical and mental energy but mortifies his body and ruins his mind. The worker therefore only feels himself outside his work, and in his work feels outside himself. He feels at home when he is not working, and when he is working he does not feel at home. His labor is therefore not voluntary, but coerced; it is forced labor. It is therefore not the satisfaction of a need; it is merely a means to satisfy needs external to it. Its alien character emerges clearly in the fact that as soon as no physical or other compulsion exists, labor is shunned like the plague. External labor, labor in which man alienates himself, is a labor of self-sacrifice, of mortification. Lastly, the external character of labor for the worker appears in the fact that it is not his own, but someone else’s, that it does not belong to him, that in it he belongs, not to himself, but to another. Just as in religion the spontaneous activity of the human imagination, of the human brain and the human heart, operates on the individual independently of him – that is, operates as an alien, divine or diabolical activity – so is the worker’s activity not his spontaneous activity. It belongs to another; it is the loss of his self.
-- Karl Marx, Economic Manuscripts
But some people choose jobs that DO satisfy their intrinsic nature. I worked my arse off to have a job like that.
Pee on me and call me a Kohl's cashier, daddy!
Hmm, not sure it passes the kink test.
I'm pro sex work because I am all for the idea that if you do what you love, you won't have to work a day in your life and, boy, do I love having sex. 😎
We should accept that there's both people for whom sex work is just like any other job, and people for whom it implies renouncing to an element of privacy they'd rather to share only with their partner/s. Should it be legalized? By criminalizing it you're screwing over a lot of people who do want to perform that work and don't provoke any issues in the world, but legalizing it might have ramifications that are horrendous.
For instance, say your country has an unemployment system where you'd lose your unemployment benefits if you receive a job offer and reject it, and immediately after getting fired you receive an offer to work at a brothel. That's great if, for you, there's no emotional element attached to sex, but for a lot of people that would be a nightmare, especially if they need either a job or the unemployment benefits.
So, my take: decriminalize sex work but don't regulate it yet. Once we have either socialism or UBI or both, and no one gets under risk of suffering personal misery for not having a job for a while, legalize it like all other jobs.
Wait, if you get offered a job that is dangerous or can scar you mentally, you have to accept it or lose your benefits?
Depends on the country's legislation. Conservatives parties often tend to make these regulations such that it's easier to terminate your benefits with a more ample range of job offers.
Sex work can have an emotional element to it as well.
I am for sex work, I am against sex abuse.
Nah. Sitting around waiting for a check in the mail and wacking off all day is degrading.
kinda sounds like only fans
Is there a sign up sheet somewhere or…?
Most works can be made into a way that they're not degrading, and the ones that can't, shouldn't be jobs.
Honestly, if I could make six figures posting feet pics, I would do it too
I have nothing against sex work or sex workers, but I do think it's inherently more degrading than most other jobs. We're talking about the industry that normalized selling used panties and bath water to lonely strangers online.
It's perceived as degrading due to the societal stigma that has been created against it. If it's between consenting adults, there is nothing degrading about it. Don't degrade people for any choice that is not harming another individual. We've created a prudish society where we look at anything sex adjacent as someone we shouldn't talk about in public.
Is it because sex is a sin for women, but something that must be earned for men? Is it because sex outside of the established order is bad? Is it because sex without love is degrading? What motivates you, consciously or not, to make such a value judgment over such an exchange?
i mean fucking amen
Reminder to keep it chill in the comments. Discussion is fine as long as you aren't personally attacking others or saying misogynistic shit. Double check the rules pinned at the top if you need a refresher
In my cou try is normalized and regulated. Sex workers have to have a public health certificate. And the place where she he works have to have all papers.
an argument against regulating sex work is that it would place government control on what we do with it bodies
That's also happening with banning it, of course, but I'm not sure if the jump we necessarily want is legalization plus regulation. Just a thought, no stance yet
It would only regulate bodies in regards to labor, which is something we already do in other industries. We allow or even mandate drug tests for employment, something that is occasionally justifiable for certain professions. We already regulate out of work activities that could affect job safety, so prostitution wouldn't introduce anything new. Most of the harmful things that could arise from regulation aren't unique to sex work
that's totally something Jessica would say
You should have a right to comprehensive worker protections, same as anyone else. I mean I personally don't respect you as a person, but that doesn't mean I want you to suffer from a lack of healthcare and living wage.
You don't respect sex workers without knowing anything about them? Like just blanket not respect them as people?
It seems to me that most come from very dark places and are just doing what they can to survive.
In the building where I live there are several sex workers. One lives next door to me. I always make sure to be extra nice to her without forcing any kind of interaction beyond what's polite because I just know she must be having a rough time due to her work. Can't be easy.
A lot of the hookers out there don't do black guys and other guys of poc. Sex work needs to be regulated so such things don't happen.
Wait? Sex work should be regulated to prevent freedom of choice in clients? That seems a little counter-intuitive if you ask me
I mean it's the same as literally any other business. There's a reason businesses aren't allowed to discriminate based on things like race/ethnicity, national origin, sex, and in civilized parts of the world, gender and sexuality.
well this is a delicate area because people have the right to be attracted to whoever they want to be. It's not racism to not be sexually attracted to a certain race. Just because a woman is a prostitute doesn't mean that she is required to say yes to every man.
But wouldn't that be an argument for not treating sex work as a form of labor like any other? I wouldn't have any problem saying a plumber or store owner or photographer or basically any other type of worker should not have the right to refuse service to people based on race or not being attracted enough to the person trying to get services. I agree that I wouldn't be comfortable applying that same standard to prostitution, but that feels like an argument that there's a fundamental difference between sex work and other, more typical, forms of wage labor.
If your job leaves you with irreversible bowel damage and STDs, I don’t think you can throw it into the same category as other jobs. Oh, it needs regulations and protections, alright, but I think it goes a little beyond what OSHA can offer.
