Could the USA "kick" a State out?
Could the USA "kick" a State out?
A loud minority of Texans call for Independence, which is not really possible as far as I know, BUT could the Rest of the USA just kick another state (Not necessary Texas) out? Or is this also not possible?
The US Constitution currently has no mechanism to break any individual State out of the Union. Throughout our history, this has been interpreted as a sign that the Union is perpetual, and not able to be dissolved. This got put to the test in our Civil War, where a bunch of states up and said "We're Leaving" and the Federal Government said "You can't just do that". They fought a war over it, and the Federal Government won, proving its position correct by force.
With that said, the US was founded as a government of the People, and so if the people want to carve out a way for States to leave, they must first establish a mechanism via amending the Constitution, which requires a 2/3 vote in both houses of Congress (or a Constitutional Convention) coupled with 3/4 of State Legislatures ratifying it.
There is a provision, though, to make States out of other States. Maine and West Virginia were both formed out of land that belonged to Massachusetts and Virginia.
Wonder though, does that mean states can combine?
It's laid out very explicitly in the COTUS (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1):
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
The funny thing is that during the civil war, West Virginia seceded from Virginia, and Congress voted to allow it and they were accepted into the union. There are a lot of people who argue that when that happened it was unconstitutional. However, it has never been tested, as far as I know.
You could just pass an amendment...
But specifically for kicking a state out I don't think the bar is that high. If the legislature and executive agreed then it could be done very quickly.
Oh, but there are all sorts of details to work out....
- are citizens of the state no longer US citizens?
- if so, what happens to their Social Security? Medicare? I don't want to keep paying for those freeloaders
- if they treat it like renouncing citizenship, they make those people pay taxes on all their assets and 401(k) holdings before leaving
- Do armed forces members from those states now get kicked out of the US armed forces and go to the new state's armed forces?
- Does the new state get to take over any military bases and Federal buildings?
- Can the rest of us build a wall on the border and make them pay for it?
There's a lot to iron out. The Brits got screwed with Brexit, and they weren't even leaving a country.
CalExit was a russian disinfo plot to weaken the US, and Texit knows that, but they love russian disinfo.
Anything is possible with a constitutional amendment.
To further add, there is nothing in the Constitution which allows for having a state leave and the Constitution is where that process would be to be laid out. So, if a state wanted to leave and the rest of the country agreed, you would need a constitutional amendment to spell out that process.
Given the high bar required to amend the Constitution, having a state leave would need to be very popular politically.
Aka, it'll never happen since one side consistently torpedoes their own bills when the other side agrees with them.
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Dems suggest texas can texit if the GOP drafts it.
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GoP doesn't want to blink, crafts it in a way that gives Texas power when it leaves, to please the howling magats
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Dems say "cool. These 31 states on both coasts are seceding. Using the process laid out, each coastal block will reorganize into its own group.
Now the red states are booted. Miller time.
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That would require Congress to be functional.
Or if most of the population just decides to ignore the constitution. But how likely is that?
If you poll half the population, they don't even know what the Constitution says. They could be ignoring it now.
Except for denying a state equal representation on the Senate without its consent; the Constitution explicitlyforbids that.
As a Texan who is working to create change in this state, please don’t kick us out. We aren’t only the bad things you see on the news. We can offer you:
Brisket
Big Tex
Cowboy Hats
Willie Nelson
Chuck Norris
Fried (insert any food group)
Everything cool about Austin
Czech kolaches
Boots galore
And so much more.Help us. We are a lot more purple than the news makes it seem, and we have been gerrymandered to the point that we need more than a simple majority to create change. If you can find it in your hearts to assist us in becoming a swing state, the whole nation stands to inherit all the things that made Texas an iconic part of the country in the first place. We are worth the effort.
Spent a lot of my formative years in Tx... dude...
Texmex. If we lose texas, we lose the fusion of meat and cheese and guac and tortillas that is texmex. It's worth saving all on it's own.
Otherwise to your list I'd add: Stevie Ray Vaughan, Austin City Limits, H-Town / dj screw pantera's Pantego and so much more.
and fuck chuck norris, he's a fundie chode.
Every Texan I've ever met has been a good person. The only time I ever see the Texas represented in the media is in the media.
I've seen Texans in the wild go on tirades when the attendant at the store checkout says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"...
The vast majority are definitely good people, but just want to point out that the people you see in the media are real. They are here, and they are loud.
It's also easy to forget that living in the cities doesn't represent the people everywhere in the state either. As long as I'm in a city, anywhere in the US, I've never seen extremely blatant racism. But go to the wrong areas in small towns and you get jeered at for not being white.
I feel like a lot of people in Joe Rogan's circle have been moving to Austin, and with his current influx of cash it seems centered around that, which means he's most likely been looking for what benefits the ultra rich, and will vote and promote accordingly.
Like when Chappelle jokingly said we should give Trump a chance because he was trying to get those tax cuts on the horizon. For the rich. Which didn't really sound like a joke. Which was followed by bringing Musk onstage and laughing at the poor. Left and Right aside, it's about the money for these guys, and I'm a little bit wary about a place so willing to accommodate.
I could be wrong, but the wealthy tend to know exactly where to know and why, but it could also be envy on my part.
As someone from MA, I think Shiner Bock should be on that list.
YUP.
And Alamo, too. And if you're at a dive bar, lone star lol
Hey, if it all hits the fan I would be in favor of an airlift to keep sending soy milk and avocados to Austin, so they can send back some of its abundance of weird.
If it gets to that point, I think its more likely to declare the state in insurrection or rebellion and send in the army to passify it, rather than trying to expunge it.
Pacify*
yes, sorry, I am what you would call catastrophically sleep deprived so its a miracle i'm as legible as I am.
There's some pretty valuable infrastructure in TX and many other states. They'd definitely take it back and give the idiots who are responsible for the trouble a token fine and gentle slap on the wrist. It's an American tradition. They'll probably execute the derps doing the actual funding though.
Pros:
Lots of land
Natural resources
Coastal access
Cons:
Shitty power grid
Rednecks
Consensus:
worth fighting to keep, but if we're going to do that, take the opportunity to cleanup the more vocal of the rednecks.
Honestly Texas just needs to split into five states. Not everyone in the state holds the same beliefs as the people who live in north and east Texas. The Houston and Austin areas are far more progressive and liberal.
Can you imagine how gerrymandered those state borders would be?
can a state be named after interstate 35?
Yeah and then those states can break into states and factions and — oh we got Mad Max, nice.
Luckily I'm not Texan, or even American.
Then also split California and Illinois and New York and Georgia and Florida
With enough approval, the US could do anything. It's either Constitutional or it would be Constitutional after an amendment is passed and approved.
If it is by the consent of the rest of the states, then yes. I'm not aware of any existing legal process, but a constitutional amendment could fix that.
Such a thing is unlikely to ever happen. Territory means people, infrastructure, and resources, so it's almost always better to hold onto it, unless you can't defend it.
It isn't. Until suddenly it is.
Most countries borders fluctuate during history.
The US border has fluctuated through its short history, but only by growing (as long as you only count states and not other claimed territory)
I suppose it's possible but it would never happen unless that state basically committed an outright act of war against the rest of the US. At that point they probably would have left the US on their own though.
And even in that scenario the US government would probably send in the military to forcibly take that state back before they just give up and force them to leave.
It's not possible legally or Constitutionally; it's possible in that they can secede by amending the Constitution, or by winning a war of secession, but that's it. They can't leave and they can't be kicked out.
Though they could be divided into or amongst other, smaller States.
Technically winning a war of secession would have to end with an amendment to the constitution too, unless it ended with the eradication of "the USA"
There is no provision that allows a state to vacate or get kicked out. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
A loud minority of Texans call for Independence, which is not really possible as far as I know
I'm a history illiterate so maybe I'm wrong but I'm sure lots of countries thought that before an insurrection. Not that I think Texas would rebel but literally why couldn't they?
As far as the legal and historical precedent goes - we fought a war over it.
If states fail to provide a representative government to their citizens, then the states has walked back some of the steps required to become a state. A serious SCOTUS could potentially block Senators and Representatives from a state that really gerrymanders or denies people the right to vote. In my opinion.
There is currently a challenge to remove 10% of WI representation because they removed ten percent of voters from the rolls.
The district of columbia is not a state so it's probably an easier place to start.
No, they cannot. I hope someone gives you a more in depth answer because I'm very sleepy. Socially, just because a state votes red doesn't mean that everyone there is awful. It would not be fair to those citizens.
I do believe that texas has the right to secede. It won't happen, but it was part of the bargin to rejoin after the Civil War.
Belief has nothing to do with anything. The resolution that granted Texas membership into the Union allowed for Texas to divide itself into five separate States, but not to leave the Union.
Quote the exact text of law or Constitution that informs your belief a state can secede, bud, or you should change that belief. Not understanding that states can't secede is dangerous. Being told to stop slavery was why all the southern states tried to secede before the Civil War, but the war actually happened because they tried to secede and they're not allowed to.
Don't forget: united, we stand. It's as true today as it ever was.
They didn't secede because they were told to stop slavery. They seceded because it looked that the national consensus was moving against the expansion of slavery to new states and territories, which would have limited slave states overall power in the long run.
They were very explicit that they were leaving to protect slavery as an institution, but to be fair nobody in power was threatening to abolish it when they did so.