Ostracize Nazis Rule
Ostracize Nazis Rule
Shout them down in every space, make them embarrased to think the stupid shit they think.
If we don't embarrass and correct them now we will have to kill them later when they come for our friends and families.
Yeah don't let them have the swastika either.
Wait… I'm hearing it's too late for that. Damn.
They already killed hip-hop.
Could you elaborate on this? I mean there's Kanye obviously, but "killing hip hop" is a strong statement considering he fell off years ago.
The culture of "real" hip-hop is basically crime culture, within that crime culture the same methods of of fascist control are used. Like the way rappers attack one another and try to control people. Gangs intertwined with the culture. Gangs are fascist, they are Nazis, they abuse people for their own personal gains. Rappers are often a voice for that sort of shitty behavior.
Just listen to any "gangster rap" they are all authoritarians raping other people's lives.
(Very generalized)
I’ve read all the comments here and I’ve concluded that we don’t really have an effective way for dealing with this problem, although we all recognise the problem.
Will forever hate them for trying to take Pepe the Frog.
feels bad man
F the fascists
This is why gatekeeping is actually important. But you've got to be sure you're keeping out the people who want to change the group, rather than people who want to join it.
norse mythology: the bisexual dude who has a meathead son and an adopted genderfluid kid. doesn't go anywhere without his horse-grandson. knows everything will go wrong when they get a dog.
For a second I feared Lemmy didn't have the "Save comment" function yet.
This is a wonderful point! I recall years ago reading the government said of the hippies that they just started selling them incense (to put it lightly) and it was one of the ways of taking them down from the inside. So this is an old trick used by many. Sucks how insidious it all is.
Do fascists really try to take Satanism though? Don't they usually prefer to claim to be on God's side?
There's a bunch of fucking Nazi punks out there. Punk and satanism are uber alles. Punk is anti fascist as it gets but these fucks are too stupid to see it.
Fascists try to take everything they can get their hands on to try and get a way "in". There's O9A, Joy of Satan, STS (not TST) and others.
I don't know man, Satanism is pretty fucking stupid.
You're pretty fucking stupid.
Does that go for liberal or philosophical ideals like free speech?
I come across a bit of rhetoric identifying free speech as a right-wing authoritarian cause, arguing that they "claim, twist, poison, ruin" it, so it's fine to give it up and no longer defend it.
Those rhetoricians seem to have a skewed or ahistorical disregard for the advances in political philosophy from the enlightenment era that got society out of the dark ages, away from authoritarianism & toward political plurality & liberal democracy. Freedom of speech was a foundational development & its growth enabled the civil rights movements that followed.
Yet according to the rhetoric, it's a problem now that right-wing authoritarians claim is as part of their cause. They'll just let them claim & define it, and now that free speech is wrong (since they let right-wingers "have" it), it's okay to limit & undermine it.
One might think they're right-wing authoritarians in disguise trying to dupe everyone into threatening the foundations of liberal society. Whether or not they are, there's a good chance they'll show up here possibly in response to this comment. Is there a name for that type of rhetoric or the people who argue it?
Anyway, it all seems like capitulation to me. I think letting fascists claim such philosophical ideals is a mistake.
Free Speech is the right to have and express opinions without being repressed by the government. Yelling fire in a theatre is not an opinion any more than harassing people with racial slurs or other forms of flatulence.
Nobody is giving free speech to fascists. Ignorant assholes are misappropriating the term to justify their disgusting behaviour and they're the only one's falling for it.
The (direct) harm principle of free speech has been a standard recognized since at least J S Mill. It's reflected in legal limitations on incitement of imminent lawless action (falsely shouting fire); incitement of violence; defamation; discriminatory acts that objectively deprive peaceful access to rights, opportunities, or resources we are entitled to. It does not restrict merely offensive conduct that bothers.
Are you referring to harassment in the looser sense of merely irritating conduct or in the stricter sense of personally targeted conduct that is unwelcome & objectively harms or deprives peaceful access as mentioned before (often through persistence)? We don't have a right not to be offended.
Freedom of speech is specifically for speech we do not like including much that you listed. It's also for speech to oppose that, which could be taken much further instead of trying to compromise it.
There's a specific breed of online Nazis who insist that it's 'punk' to be Conservative.
Those idiots wouldn't know punk even if it headbutted them in the face.
fascists are even trying to steal the identity and word of conservatisim.
conservatives of 12-15 years ago are liberal by todays standards.
Not wrong at all, the Nazi Party co-opted and stole countless icons and imagery, the swastika itself was stolen.
and the modern day Nazi Party in Russia at least, tries to steal entire letters of the Latin alphabet.
I have a Celtic knot tattoo on my forearm (actually it's the album cover of King Crimson's album Discipline).
My British friend told me I shouldn't display that in public in the UK because people might think I'm a neonazi.
I'm like fuck no, Celtic symbols don't belong to Nazis and I won't let them have it! Also, it's a prog album cover wtfRespect for having Discipline cover tattooed on your forearm
Yeah, prog rock's not very popular so most people won't recognize it as what it is, unfortunately.. However, I wear band tshirts like 80% of the time and by far the best reactions were to my Rush Tshirt. Followed by Riverside and KGLW.
Anyway, fuck nazis !
I had to stop wearing my Mjølner pendant because of those fucks. So I fully agree.
You didn't have to. That's called relenting. Could have worn a "fuck fascists" message alongside it? Maybe it was easier to give up that battle?
Nazis are cultural parasites.
They already took flags in multiple countries.
It’s always iffy when you carry the flag of your country because the people who do that tend to be assholes. Let’s not let them get anything else.
And take the flags back too.
Yep. 100% true in Sweden. They've been doing it since the 90s.
Or Hawaiian shirts. Man, I love my Hawaiian shirts and I was not happy when they were briefly associated with some nonsense fucking Civil War 2.0 bullshit. I'm very glad that particular stylistic movement fell apart.
Boogaloo Boys were strange, they seemed to be a bunch of loosely affiliated extremists from every corner of the political spectrum (although concentrated in certain corners).
It seems like they were accelerationists.
We just watched one do a nazi salute twice, on national TV, in the seat of government and not a single member of the "opposition" had the balls to walk up there and punch him in the face.
The Nazis have won. People care more about civility than fascism.
Boy, you give up easily. They've "won" already?
Be ungovernable
People care more about civility than fascism.
It's pathetic how true that feels.
The fascists will lose. They always lose. They might seem to have the upper hand right now, but they can only fool the people for so long until they fight back.
Unfortunately it takes too long for them to lose.
Nazis are a bit like cockroaches. If you stomp a couple, the rest will run away and hide.
I agere. Sadly they hurt a lot people untill they get stopped or destroy themselves.
Man, feel like Norse iconography might be almost a lost cause here. I was looking into getting a Thor's Hammer tattoo years ago... Every variation you can think of has been co-opted by a Nazi group somewhere. I think it was the FBI that used to keep a database of symbols linked to terrorist groups, most of it was various flavors of Nazis and most of that was symbols stolen from Norse culture.
I was looking into getting a Thor’s Hammer tattoo years ago
Couldn't a "fuck Nazis" message somewhere clarify that?
Here’s a resource if anyone is looking https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbols/search
Nazi punks FUCK OFF!
You got one downvote. That asshole is either in the wrong discussion and doesn't know their music or is a Nazi cock gobbler and needs to wipe the orange off their lips.
They already tried to take punk and punk said "no".
They can have Nickleback
BUILD THE WONDERWALL
They’ve already taken some Metal. Went to a Metallica concert and there were trump flags in the parking lot, militia-style shirts, firearms shirts, blue line flag shirts, Punisher skull shirts…. I was surrounded by White Power and authoritarians. The Metal Heads I grew up with all decided they wanted to carry the batons and riot shields they hated in their youth. Didn’t help that FFDP was there with their military fetish and making commentary about the Biden administration.
Aren't/Weren't Pantera associated with white supremacism as well?
There's probably loads more to be fair
Yeah there are some videos out there of Phil Anselmo screaming "White Power"
Kind of yes, although their music didn't have anything to do it, and their "white supremacism" didn't go much beyond "but can that n----- play the guitar?", confederate flags, and Phil Anselmo's "edgy humor". Some of it was actually overplayed, because Dimebag didn't play his guitar 100% aligned to perfect rythm, and djent kids didn't like that. Metallica is more aware its own right wingedness in its music.
Tbf these are the guys who killed Napster
One of many, but certainly one of the loudest and most monied voices.
Didn’t help that FFDP was there with their military fetish and making commentary about the Biden administration.
I'm kinda disappointed how much I like some of their stuff, but I refuse to support them and their Wehraboo fanbase.
I can believe that.
I've a afroamerican mate here in Sweden, kinda mad lad.
He's from NY. Once he told me at every gig he was the only black guy in the crowd (90s), Punk, metal, he always was alone.
Anyway it seems he had a good time, but I guess NY it's diffent from many other places in the Us.
Dude I went to an Incubus concert a couple years ago and there was a guy proudly wearing a "Let's go Brandon!" shirt.
He might've been cheering on the singer though.
Tbh Black metal (awesome as it is) has a lot of ties to Nazi movements. Back when I was first getting into it I bought myself a Burzum shirt, because I only had a vague idea of Varg being somewhat of a controversial figure. I thought, how bad could this guy really be? Well... He is B A D. Despite a lot of this kind of music still being a guilty pleasure of mine I have ventured into anti Nazi bands such as Neckbeard Death camp, who are really vocal about kicking Nazis from the scene. That being said, traverse black metal paying heed to your step, for ignorance can end you up with neo Nazi band merch.
Man, fuck Varg. What an absolute waste of a human and an absolute stain.
Damn I love Lemmy, this would get OP banned on Reddit ... just the truth.
Glad to have you here :)
It feels like old reddit
I remember when Anime ang gaming were pretty progressive. Now they complain wokism about everything. God fucking damn.
Then the hentai thing is insane how the rape theme took over. They cry censorship and shit but man you follow a guy in Instagram that does hentai ONLY ABOUT RAPE! 80+ works all about rape! You don't see a fuckin problem there buddy?
Yeah it gone a little personal.Then the hentai thing is insane how the rape theme took over.
It took over? What were those tentacle monsters doing? Loving tenderly?
Yeah I get it but I mean the NTR and "guy doing the rape" definitely took over. I remember on the late 90s early 2000s it was much more fantasy bs and "lucky guy" stories shit like bible black and house of dolls where the exception rather than the norm.
I can give it to you that maybe it was always there and I'm having some rose tinted memories, but definitely is worrying and the supporters are quite a handful that's undeniable.
I'm not going to let them take fat and stupid. The sacrifices my people made will not be in vain!
Is there a conservative punk rock movement?
the bigger thing right now is people being purposefully obtuse and treating "punk" as the same thing as "counter culture."
conservatives are using this argument to state that they are the REAL punks because they are anti-establishment (while somehow holding all branches of the government but whatever)
in their mind punk people change their political ideologies to whatever is the opposite of who is in power, and so clearly all existing punks had to flip to the other side the second obama was elected or something.
(I'm a second generation punk on both sides and my whole family would curb stomp these asshats)
Conservatives have never and will never be the punk, because punk is a counterculture movement against cultural conservatism, not who is in office at any given time. Punk has always been about cultural freedom, and conservatism is about cultural restriction.
One of the best examples of conservatives' superficial understanding of counterculture was during the 2020 elections in Philadelphia, when some Boomers wrapped themselves in flags outside a polling place and danced to RATM "Killing in the Name". They heard the words "fuck you I won't do what you tell me", and decided that it represented THEM, while discarding the rest of the lyrics and the entire meaning of the song.
They do this with all media, from music to books to movies and TV. Their understanding and interpretation of art begins and ends at the surface level.
Like the broader skinhead movement, Oi! was originally just a punk subgenre, but now a lot of people only affiliate them with fascists. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi!
Testing link correction
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi!
Ah it wanted the hyperlink syntax, actually seems sound design
How about letting them have "no", "get bent" or, in extremes cases, a punch to the kisser? Can they have those?
Nazis can have Trapt. That’s what they can have.
I agree with this. That singer is a mega douche anyway. One of the most hilarious things I've seen was a few years back when he was trying to beef with Ice-T on Twitter, and Ice just kept calling him "Mr. Trapt" and it sent him off the fucking edge.
this goes for most ideologies, really
Nah, other ideologies create things and can do more than just appropriate.
Fascists haven't created anything cultural since Leni Reifenstahl. And she was a documentarist.
For Fascists all imagery and symbols are merely empty signifiers for nostalgia, a mythologised past, and a sense of belonging.
No, it really doesn't. Nazism is uniquely disingenuous and predatory by its nature.
They aren't predators. They're parasites.
They can have ska.
Over my dead fucking body.
Alright. If you want it, you’re gonna have to skank for it.
A Caribbean genre revived by black marginalized youth in the formerly imperialist Thatcher's UK? Are you ...sure?
It’s a joke about ska being shitty.
But that scene has also had its own issues with Nazis.
They can have nothing
Yep. I don't even want them to have country and I don't listen to any modern country.
I love ska especially punk ska
Booo!!!
Angry Oi! skin noises
Even this I would deny them.
I agree it seems harsh, but remember that these are Nazis.
I don't think they really ever steal cultures like that?
Which culture did they ever take and appropriate?
In the US, Norse Pagan is getting kinda white supremacy-y.
The ADL didn't call Elon's salute a hate symbol, I think we can rule out their expertise at the moment. Also: "Non-racist pagans may also use this symbol, so one should carefully examine it in context rather than assume that a particular use of the symbol is racist."
Skinheads and oï weren't nazis at first (and still aren't for some part)
In some places, the SHARPs are the only skinheads around, which is nice.
And still aren't for a big part.
Im pretty sure I’ve heard the term „goth maga“ before so there is that…
Edit: and I just looked it up and now I feel sick. They already have a website and everything. So yeah, there is that.
You're underselling the cringe. It was "dark, gothic MAGA"
That's not gonna stick. Maga are not cultured people. They don't listen to music, they don't delve into self reflection, they aren't thinking about meaning and the universe. There is no art there.
Sure there are a few people here and there, that will make a website, but that's not gonna hold.
I’m okay with letting them have Christianity though.
They can have nothing.
Not real Christianity though. Not the one where people feed people and help others. Don't forget Prez Carter and Mr. Roger's were both that kind of Christian. They can have the Jerry Falwell style bullshit.
But my childhood church said that Carter and Rogers weren't real christians. Mr Rogers never would have advised I follow the bible's instructions to marry my rapist, for example.
I've heard "cherry picking" used a lot to deride christians for not following the bible, but I absolutely want people to be fake christians and only follow the feel good parts. I don't want people to be devout and take things on faith, I want them to question what they're told. I don't want the real christians who follow the bible as closely as possible. I want them to acknowledge that the bible has some horrible stuff in it that nobody should listen to.