"But but..... what about shareholder value?"
- East India Company, United Fruit, and plenty others.
And God said go forth and multiply profits for the pharaohs, priests and tax collectors.
"But but… what if some of them are terrorists?"
>"Nothing justifies genocide."
>Proceeds to make arguments justifying genocide
I have no idea how you could possibly think this supports your position on things.
If Major Kira was living under a government that offered no alternative to genocide, she'd take up a phaser and start killing government officials, you know, like she literally did, in the show. She'd never condone someone who supported genocide, even if it meant resorting to violent opposition instead.
Proceeds to make arguments justifying genocide
"Justifying genocide is when you oppose genocide, and the more you oppose it, the more you justify it" - Very Serious Lemmings
Alternatively, "The prospect of an eventual violent revolution justifies genocide" - Very Serious Lemmings
Or more realistically, "I think that the prospect of virtue signaling without affecting government policy justifies genocide, because that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside" - Very Serious Lemmings
“Justifying genocide is when you oppose genocide, and the more you oppose it, the more you justify it” - Very Serious Lemmings
"Opposing genocide is when you vote for someone doing a genocide and the harder you post about supporting them the more you oppose it" - Very Serious Lemmings 🤡
It's very funny to me that you received friendly fire because people on your side saw a simple "genocide is bad" meme and just assumed it was about them. You'd think that would lead to introspection but what do I know lol.
Despite the trolls accusing people here of justifying it- I do t see anyone here is doing that. I’m pretty sure they know this, and this is what makes it hard to call them out for what they are doing. It’s like arguing with Christians.
They just misinterpret your words, rewrite them using their English-to-Troll filter, and shout them back at you once they say essentially the opposite of what you’re saying.
Example:
ME: “of course I don’t support genocide. But not voting for Biden isn’t going to stop it, and Donald ‘finish the job’ Trump is going to be far worse on Palestine than Biden could ever be!”
TROLL: “See! You support gEnOciDe!”
Now, you could accuse me of doing exactly what I’m accusing them of, but I’d urge you to look through my recent comment history. Somewhere between yesterday and today- you can see this exact thing happening.
The point is. From what I can see, NO ONE here is supporting genocide. The ones in other communities that do, get banned pretty quickly. And anyone that is accusing people of it, are proving to everyone that they aren’t here to discuss things rationally- because they’re starting from a complete and total lack of rationale.
Meanwhile:
"I support the Green party."
"So what you're really saying is, you think everyone should not vote on election day, or vote for Trump."
In a perfect world, that option would be viable. However, if you look around- and pay attention, it’s not. And it’s not even remotely close.
I’d be all over a third party option if there was even a small chance they’d succeed. But they can’t. And this isn’t an opinion. Vote third party and yeah- hate to say it but you are throwing away a vote. And it’s not a big stretch to understand how a non vote or a third party vote FACTUALLY benefits Trump.
I fucking hate that this is how it is, but I’d rather live in the real world than believe in my own reality.
I see tenforward is leaking...
I approve.
The only thing that shocked and appalled Riker was Picard pulling the women he really wanted.
Lul, didn't even notice this is politicalmemes
Much like the federation, it’s their duty to explore and trade culture with far away, strange cultures. Much like here in our c/politicalmemes, a lot is different but there are many similarities to the c/tenforward they call home. They have families, jobs, sometimes get trapped in the pattern buffer, cloned, or stacked by a macrovirus . . Just like here.
Yep, this is definitely Ten Forward. It's a bullshit dogwhistle designed to help Donald Trump get elected and do more genocide, so it can't be from Risa, it must be from the crappy one.
Time Traveller from 1993 (when this episode aired): "So, what's 2024 like?"
"If you say you won't support genocide, you get accused of being a Russian asset."
Also an anti-Semite.
Or a sinophobe or a russophobe, or a bad sport depending on which genocide you deny.
It's a fucked up state the world is in when all great powers have their own genocide which they deny.
Whichever way you vote, this will continue to happen. Sobering thought, eh?
This isn't totally true, but it's partially true. If Trump wins the American election, he will double down support for Israel and completely write off all those who oppose them as terrorists.
Biden is just kind of apologetically supporting them because he's a weak leader that can't afford to rock the boat. He does weakly push back often, it's just nowhere near what we want or need.
If Biden actually wins the election, he may actually end American support. I'm of the opinion he's afraid of offending democrats and independents that support Israel, thus losing him the election (since he's barely ahead in the polls.) Most of us are still going to vote for him despite this, because Trump is far worse... You can't say that about the people who support Isreal.
Biden is just kind of apologetically supporting them because he’s a weak leader that can’t afford to rock the boat ... If Biden actually wins the election, he may actually end American support
No, he is ideologically committed to supporting Israel. He has said this multiple times and I see no reason to disbelieve him. I think it's equally likely Trump would stop supporting Israel because of America First/antisemitism, which is to say, so unlikely as to be impossible.
Biden is the #1 whore of israel. He's been sucking their dick for his entire career.
I think I could find it in me to justify geocide of the Jem'Hadar.
(Since this is not a Star Trek board: The Jem'Hadar are a genetically engineered race, made by the Dominion. Their purpose is to be ruthless soldiers. They are engineered without emotions, or any care for human-like values, and so they inevitably have no sense of ethics. They are managed in two ways: first, the need for a drug-like protein that only the Dominion can synthesize; and second, a predisposition to recognize the Founders of the Dominion as their slavemasters.)
But any race, even a race with a proven tendency to be assholes, like the Cardassians, deserves a chance.
As for Palestinians, it's not even close. They should obviously be considered innocent civilians. If I were to make inferences about who was the more evil race based on the current war, I would be much more likely to pick Israelis because of their current kill count of civilians.
But we don't make such inferences. They're all humans. They're way more closely related than Bajorans vs Cardassians. They all evolved on the same planet, are the same species, with a very recent common ancestor. It's due to their upbringing, education, and circumstances that Hamas and IDF both wish to commit genocide, and it's due to external funding that IDF has been more successful at it.
You need a revisit of DS9.
Jem'hadar had their own set of internal rules and even disagreements on how to interpret or execute orders. The drug was used to ensure absolute control because they could evolve in a cultural or spiritual sense.
The Jem'Hadar were capable of going against their programming once their Ketracel addiction was treated. You don't need genocide.
The Jem'Hadar were not without emotions. In Hippocratic Oat we see that. I'd argue that the fact that they're an enslaved race Surely it's better to be working to break them free of that enslavement, rather than committing genocide.
But then again I think Janeway's genocide of the Borg was wrong too.
I tend to agree with don't genocide The Borg, but how do you deal with The Borg? The just keep coming back stronger, and they're kinda antithetical to the whole idea of free will.
Generally a good take, I just wished you hadn't used the word "race", because the concept of race itself is only a thing among racists, and we should not use that kind of language.
I am shocked and appalled by this grotesque show of antisemitism. Shocked and appalled I tell ya!
EDIT: /s...obviously
This is super hypocritical coming from pugjesus. Yikes.
That's pretty hypocritical coming from a .ml user.
Posting memes about tankies isn't committing genocide. He's metaphorically burning people, not literally.
OP who has been spam posting pro Biden memes for the past month in this sub
lmao, I checked my last month of posts in this community, let's go over them, shall we?
For those who are wondering but don't want to go down through, it's 1/18 pro-Biden posts, in the past 30 days. How strange that a tankie would make such an easily disproven lie! Totally unheard of! /s
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Anti-genocide (this one)
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"Based leftist president tells coup leader to fuck off"
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Pro-ranked choice
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"SCOTUS is fucked"
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"FORM UNIONS"
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"Fetishization of Russian politics is incredibly transparent and you shouldn't fall for it"
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Anti Ukrainian genocide
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Anti Ukrainian genocide
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An ACTUAL pro-Biden post [That's 1 so far, for those counting]
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"Trump speaks like a particularly troubled third grader"
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"Capitalism is fucked"
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"Trump speaking on history is fucking bizarre"
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"Not everything bad is fascism; some things are bad but NOT fascism"
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Criticism of China's anti-LGBT policies
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Anti-genocide
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"Why do right-wingers always have anime profile pics"
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"Reagan was a shitbag"
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"MAGA doesn't know what socialism is"
Oh I'm sorry I should have said the past 3 months of your terminally online ass
A personal screw you for putting Pakistan on the wrong rail for this one:
spoiler
some lazy paste post links in case someone else actually sees this reply https://lemmy.world/post/15388460 https://lemmy.world/post/15423884 https://lemmy.world/post/15534543 https://lemmy.world/post/15653486 https://lemmy.world/post/15661013 https://lemmy.world/post/10309731 (you get the idea)
Also bonus meme
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You can say that all you want as long as you accept you have to vote for it.
Let me put it this way - there's no justification for what Israel is doing or our continued support of Israel. There's also no justification for welcoming fascism into the US.
This whole shitshow is a stain on our souls, collectively and individually. It's all we can do to make the least bad choice, and then work towards it not being forced on us again.
Then we can enjoy some entirely new and unforeseen shitshow to torment us.
It's shitshows and stains on your soul until you die.
Yeah, it sucks that no one talks about the Junta
If you took this out of the context of being on lemmy, it would be impossible to tell which side this came from.
What the fuck are you smoking?
Outside of shitty Israeli propaganda, no-one thinks Israel is under the threat of genocide.
And who think that Israel is committing one? The rest of the fucking world.
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven.
— Desmond Tutu
"What the fuck are you smoking" is an ad hominem designed to distract from my undeniably true point, specifically: that both sides are similar in using unfair allegations of defending genocide to dismiss more nuanced beliefs of the other side.
Outside of shitty Israeli propaganda, no-one thinks Israel is under the threat of genocide.
This is called a motte-and-bailey fallacy. You're taking my point implying that both sides accuse the other of defending genocide and then wanna say I'm suggesting Israel is under threat of genocide. These are different things. You use a different thing because if you were to address the actual point, which again is undeniably true, you would have a very hard time.
To be clear, the "genocide" Israel supporters (unfairly) accuse others of defending is the Hamas attack on Israel, where Hamas killed unarmed civilians at close range, proudly recording it on video. I don't mean to imply you can't figure that out on your own, but you kinda forced me to point it out.
And if you say "but people who are protesting Israel aren't defending Hamas attacking Israeli civilians, but are defending the right of the Palestinian civilians to remain alive", then you understand completely. Now try swapping the relevant ethno-religious tribes.
From the river to the sea, Israel shell be free!
I'm joking but Israeli politicians do use similar rhetoric to justify wiping out Palestine
We've even had an "Evil must be opposed!" moment.
It's a pitty Bibi didn't hang himself while jumping off a railing.
supporting conservative genocide is just another way of saying you love your fellow humas
Maybe we need to take a step back, define herbicide and then go from there
No idea what you're referring to OP. Stop vague posting and say what's on your mind.
"The ongoing genocides in the world are bad - yes, all of them. Israeli, Russian, Sudanese, Chinese, all of them. All. Of. Them. None of them should have anyone playing apologetics for them. Genocide is bad. Genocide. Is. Bad. No, it is not 'a complex situation', that moniker was surrendered when the genocide kicked up. There is NO justification for genocide."
I assume you got that quote from your dentist right?
Also I'm more referring to the headline you made for this post. I seems to imply that "genocide is bad" is now a widely controversial position. But again, who the fuck knows what you're saying. From where I'm sitting it isn't controversial at all, and I'd need to dig into the foulest depths of the internet to find a tiny handful of people with that position.
The only good mosquito that bites humans is a dead bug.
"Kill them all ticks, mosquitoes, centipedes and w/e. if it moves kill it.
This is spacehooks and I approved this ad for president "
Edit: sorry, moving on.
I'm on your side, man. I'm on here bitching on "BOTH SIDES" types all day long. I'm voting for Biden (or, on the off-chance he's replaced, whoever the fuck is put up as a viable alternative to Trump). Voting to intensify genocide, as with a vote for Trump or a failure to oppose Trump with one's vote, is never acceptable.
It's just that we also must accept, as citizens, that we bear a part of the responsibility of this mess, and at no point can we look back at this and say "Well, as the American people, our choice to tepidly support genocide wasn't THAT bad, or geopolitical concerns justified it"
Our choice is dogshit. Even if it was 100% reversed now, it would remain dogshit, albeit much less dogshit than continuing or intensifying it. And we have to square with that on our souls.
Yep I know, sorry. Just took down my rants, I didn’t see it was yours until I got all worked up. Apologies.
well it seems you‘ll all be voting for it
Welcome to democracy - where the ignorance and malice of the politically uneducated majority force the politically educated minority to make shitty and immoral choices.
It's better than the alternative, of course - the ignorance and malice of a politically uneducated minority forcing everyone else to support one shitty and immoral choice.
This isn't democracy. If ending genocide was actually a choice on the ballot instead of two ghouls who both support genocide, I bet most would vote to end genocide. What we actually have is a representative system where we're told that we vote in politicians who represent us, but in reality they represent the plutocracy and the plutocracy wants genocide.
it's not controversial, what is controversial is what is being defined as genocide. Classic mischaracterization.
Now i'm not going to get into the immediate debate about whether or not this is an active genocide or not, because frankly, not my fucking problem.
what i will get into is the commonly accepted definition of genocide, which is in past tense. It's also commonly used to specifically denote a certain ethnicity, which considering that israel is indiscriminately bombing, i'm not sure how much that applies. I feel like considering palestinian an ethnicity would be like considering a US state to be an ethnicity as well. Though i'm sure there is historical merit to that statement, the complexities of it are not something i'm intimately familiar with so i won't say much on it.
Regardless, I think palestine is realistically entitled to it's own nation, i see no reason for it not to be. Israel, arguably is also entitled to it's own nation, i see no reason for it not to be either.
It'd be cool if israel and hamas stopped committing war crimes, but considering that this is a war in the middle east, i don't know when that will happen.
ethnicity
¦the quality or fact of belonging to a population group or subgroup made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.
Of course it's an ethnicity. The mental fucking gymnastics you genocides defenders come up with.
because frankly, not my fucking problem.
We live in a global, interconnected society. Yes, it is your fucking problem, no matter how indirectly.
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
the quality or fact of belonging to a population group or subgroup made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.
so technically this more closely matches the definition of ethnic, rather than ethnicity, but ethnicity is just the specific designation of an ethnic group, so meh.
from my understanding around the local area to Palestine and Israel, is that Palestine (and Israel as well) are more legally and specifically defined, than ethnically defined. You could argue that Palestinian would be an ethnicity, but like i said, is the entire state of Wyoming also an ethnicity? Indiana locals are Hoosiers, yet they don't ascribe to a certain ethnicity. Like i said i just don't know enough about the local area to be able to classify it more properly.
In fact, the basic internet resources seem to affirm this, googling Palestine brings up two primary results (for me at least) Palestine: the geographical area (unrelated to ethnicity) and the state of Palestine: the country (presumably also unrelated to ethnicity)
"Half of the Palestinian population are diaspora and refugees." also pulled from the same resource, uses Palestinian to refer to the people who "are a member of Palestine" rather than an ethnicity. Historically this is what ethnicity means, but i don't believe that Palestine, over the last 50 years of it's literally global timeline, has remained to be Palestinian, i'm almost certain it's floated away over time, as things tend to do in systems of entropy.
this is from wikipedia, so not a guaranteed source of truth but it seems that Palestine is Arab, which would make Palestine ethnically Arab, ignoring the minority communities. From what i can tell, and from what i expect, Palestine seems to be a cultural melting pot of sorts, so i'm really not sure the term genocide applies here at all.
The mental fucking gymnastics you genocides defenders come up with.
it's really not, is an individual state in the US considered to be it's own ethnicity? Genuine question.
We live in a global, interconnected society. Yes, it is your fucking problem, no matter how indirectly.
and yet, i only speak English, how many languages do you speak? I only live in the US, where do you live? I only have experience with western US society because i haven't been anywhere else. Where have you been?
With all due sincerity, i do not fucking know shit out most of the world outside of the US, it's literally not my place to make governmental decisions for the UK, or Ireland for example. Do i want Israel and Palestine to be at war? No, same as i don't want Ukraine and Russia to be at war, am i going to tell them what to do? No, it's not my fucking land, and it's not my fucking government. This is literally not my problem to answer.
The western society, the US in particular has issues with over projecting power and influence into eastern society and expecting it to work, it doesn't time after time. Why are we expecting this to be any different?
genocides defenders
also to be clear, you are quite literally pulling this out of your ass, because i'm not even sure this would be classified as a genocide, it might be. And here you are arguing that i am quite literally defending it, even though the only thing i contest is what these actions are constituted as. Whether or not i think it's genocide or not doesn't magically make all the people dying go away. You're the one doing that conflation here, not me.
also, cool reference to the nazis, once Israel turns to Egypt and starts bombing them indiscriminately or something, i'll believe you.
Kinda soundin' like a tankie here...
If believing genocide is unjustifiable means you're a tankie, guess I'm a tankie.
No, I was fucking with OP. He posts a lot of anti tankie shit.
Hey OP are you telling people not to vote against fascism or are you going to deny this is a dogwhistle?
Oh joy... I guess watching liberals pearl-clutching themselves into supporting colonialist genocide is going to be the dominant spectacle on this community until the hammer drops in November.
Yay.
Now do conservatives...pray tell where does trump stand on genocide....to shreds you say.
You're a fucking idiot.
Now do conservative
Which part of...
I guess watching liberals pearl-clutching themselves into supporting colonialist genocide
...didn't you understand?
So-called "conservatives" are liberals, Clyde. So-called "conservatives" buy into the exact same pro-capitalist, pro-colonialist ideology of liberalism that you buy into, Clyde.
The only difference between the people you call "liberals" and the people you call "conservatives" are that the latter is further along the "liberal-to-fascist" pipeline than you are.
Ah my favorite self flagellating liberal! What's keeping you around this community, then? Is this easier than finally facing the mirror?
Ah my favorite self flagellating liberal!
Oh, you remember me? How flattering.
However, I don't remember you... you liberals all sound the same to me, and, of course, that's a you problem.
Does anyone have proof there is a genocide and can explain me?
Let's buy this guy a one way ticket to Gaza
Yeah I’m still waiting on these groipers to supply anything of substance to their lame troll attempts from 2020
Look up the definition of genocide, you stupid and way too obvious groiper dummies
any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Article 3 defines the crimes that can be punished under the convention:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.
Hey, how complicit do you figure someone is if they keep sending military aid, knowing they're being used in war crimes and knowing the government receiving them is openly talking about clearing all the "bad people" out so they can build settlements?
