If I had a nickel for every time someone says "this person's being a huge jerk to me but I think they might be neurodivergent"
If I had a nickel for every time someone says "this person's being a huge jerk to me but I think they might be neurodivergent"
Regular reminder that being an asshole is not a symptom of any form of neurodivergence. (You can replace “neurodivergent” with depressed, anxious, bipolar, etc. and the diagram works equally well)
ETA: social faux pas, awkwardness, and genuine symptoms of neurodivergence don’t make you an asshole. I shouldn’t have to say this? An “asshole” is someone who enacts a pattern of abusive, controlling, harassing, and/or harmful behavior with no remorse or concern for how other people are affected.
I agree but would qualify my agreement with a note:
Some of our neurodivergent traits come across as assholeish or rude behavior and while most of us try and temper and mask it does slip out especially in high stress situations.
Intention matters.
I think it's my responsibility to explain to coworkers and make super sure they understand how I am especially after a high stress event (for me that'd likely be a server outage in production).
This is true! But there’s a very easy way to tell the difference.
When you find out you hurt someone’s feelings, do you apologize, express how terrible you feel about it, and try to do better? Not an asshole.
Do you double down, make excuses, and blame them for feeling bad? Asshole.
Saying the wrong thing doesn’t make you a jerk. Not caring about other people’s feelings, does.
You're still making it a bit too easy for you. "Not caring about other people’s feelings" is very close to "Not able to understand why somebody reacts and feels a certain way" but is definitely not the same thing.
I'm a parent to (at least one diagnosed so far) autistic child and there are plenty of situations in which this very kind, friendly and empathic person is simply unable to understand why one of the other siblings reacted as they did. Has nothing to do with whether they care or not.
Do you double down, make excuses, and blame them for feeling bad? Asshole.
I often inconvenience people in a particular way. (I'm very frequently late.) I apologize a lot but then I keep doing the same thing. It's really hard for me not to, I get why this frustrates people, and I don't blame anyone who refuses to put up with the inconvenience. However, people often assume that I keep inconveniencing them because I don't respect them, and I want them to understand that that's not what's going on.
Intention matters.
It matters up to a point where the negatives outweigh the good intentions, same as everyone else.
The tough part is people hide when they're offended, so you can't even avoid doing the same faux pas in the future.
They just gossip behind your back about you being a jerk. Problem solved!
There's absolutely a point where I'm not going to mask for the sake of social niceties. I try my best to not be a jerk though, but there are so many situations where I've been called rude for not following the NT script. For example, stopping someone, saying I don't want to have a conversation right now, and walking away. Not an excuse to avoid difficult talks either, just when it's a convo about whatever random thing and I don't have the capacity to listen.
"I don't care what's wrong with you. If you're an asshole, you're an asshole"
This has stuck with me for about 15 years now. A neurodivergent stage crew member who was consistently an asshole was being an asshole again, so this other kid just yelled at him and told him off. Everyone in the room gave him the shocked Pikachu face because he yelled at the ND kid. Someone said "dude, you cant yell at him" and then he laid down this quote.
@5oap10116 @isaaclyman Being diagnosed with all kinds of crap before they finally settled on AuDHD, I've always sworn by "Diagnosises can be an explanation but never a shield."
Own your shit.
I feel like I'm missing something here.
Something many groups need to hear, not just the ND crowd.
Damn right.
The sentiment is right, but using the phrase wrong with you, might be a little harsh. There's nothing wrong with them, they are who they are.
None of that excuses being an asshole though.
Wrong with you would be more like if they're going through a breakup and they aren't themselves, or going through grief over something etc.
But directed at a ND person where it can come off as being about their ND isn't good.
Edit: "I don't care what's going on with someone, if they're an asshole they're an asshole" would be a better option
Don't yell at people. The right answer is to tell them that they are a problem privately.
Yes, but it's IMHO not as clear cut. Some of the things we do because of our executive function disorder can be interpreted as us being assholes by those we interact with. One can act like an asshole at times and not intrinsically be one. Some things are perceived as assholeish by some people but not others.
So my take on this is that they still need to be told they are behaving like an asshole. The behavior is inappropriate regardless of the reason. Like " Go away and come back when you have yourself under control and sorry this is hard for you."
On the other hand, it's not always something we actively do. If I lose focus on something I was doing with someone or on a conversation, I didn't do it on purpose, and I literally couldn't help it. I have definitely been called an asshole for it before, but calling me out on it doesn't do anything but make me feel like shit cause it happened again, and as I know it always will, I now know you'll always think I'm being one
The behavior is inappropriate regardless of the reason.
There are tons of things that people do that are considered asshole or not asshole depending on who is involved, the context, and intentions.
Pointing out someone's addiction issues is often a social offense because 'everyone knows it' and it causes trouble. But interventions are things, and friends calling someone out in public might be the way it gets through to them.
Sometimes people make fun of others in public which is fine if both of them are fine with it and they avoid certain topics, but those can vary widely by person and the audience.
Hell, pointing out that someone is being an asshole is often considered inappropriate!
I think it depends. My son is deep on the spectrum. He's pretty pleasant, and he can tell if he's making someone upset or angry, but often has no idea why.
I could absolutely see him being rude or making someone uncomfortable without knowing it, and in many cases I think it would be a challenge to help him even comprehend how or why he was doing so, even if he could tell it was happening.
One of the things that makes me feel the worst for him is when he can tell he's not handling a situation "correctly" but has no idea why. It really upsets him.
So yeah, I cut people who I think might be ND some slack.
Your kid doesn’t sound like an asshole, so IMO all good.
This is just an ad for MasterCard; change my mind.
You got me. Mastercard: the credit card for neurodivergents, assholes, and everything in between
"There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's neurodivergence."
had this happen in politics subs. “wow i can’t believe you hold the beliefs you do, what kind of neurodivergent are you?” has deadass happened
i would rather you call me a slur :(
I'm direct and highly value honesty, but I've learned that's no excuse for lacking tact. Being a minimal degree of kind and polite to neurotypical people isn't particularly difficult, it's just learning to interface with someone whose emotional drivers you may not completely share. It's easier than learning to interface with a nonverbal species like a cat or a parrot.
How did you learn? I'm asking because that's not something I'm seeing discussed here.
I don't even think most of the commenters here have given it any thought.
It's kind of important to the topic because at least part of the problem is that education is lacking both in NT and ND people as far as how we both developed healthy boundaries to mitigate "being an asshole".
If nobody tells you your behavior is not acceptable in a way you can comprehend then it's a communication issue and and education issue. If it's that then we should discuss that.
I started by reading "How to Gain Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. It's a bit dated but was required for a college course. It helped me realize there were certain actions/routines that would give me consistently okay results with most NTs. Not great, just okay, but okay was a huge improvement.
That helped alleviate the often crippling anxiety I felt in many social situations with new people. Free to actually think when around NTs who weren't charmed by my ND data dumps, perplexing eye contact, and random obsessions, I was able to actively observe social interactions between myself and others. From there, it was a matter of trying different things and learning to lick my wounds when I blew it. My standard apology for doing something that made someone uncomfortable was along the lines of "I'm so sorry, that came across wrong. What I was trying to convey is (X). I'm not the best communicator sometimes, but I'm working on it. Can we start over? " with direct eye contact and a strong, chagrined, "practiced in the mirror" smile.
That's the jist of it. Getting over the basic skills and confidence hump is the hardest. Once you have those, it's really no different that practicing a sport or playing a game. It's learning to act but for the purpose of being genuine with those who might not understand your natural inclinations.
This drives me bananas.
On the one hand as someone with ASD, yeah, I would have loved to have a little more understanding growing up but on the other you do not get a free pass just because you are some flavor of "special". Everyone is special. Everyone is a weird combination of neurotypcial and neurodivergent it's just a matter of degree and how it's all put together. When you say someone is neurotypical... how do you even know?
When you say that something is not your fault because you are neurodivergent did you even try to find a work-around? Did you try to find away to make the other person more comfortable? Did you try to exercise the understanding you demand of others? Or did you just say you don't have to?
I hate that some people call ASD a disability. Sure it might be disabling at time but you shouldn't use that as an excuse not to work hard and be successful. There is no reason that I need to walk around telling people I'm disabled. I realize some have it much harder than others but I think we all should work hard to try to be better especially since unemployment is so high.
I hate that some people call ASD a disability.
100%
Different people have different challenges. For me ASD is both very challenging at times but also a superpower.
since unemployment is so high.
It's not though. Currently 4.2% which is on the low end of historical averages and what is considered "normal". Not to discount your point but just to counter the ongoing narrative - largely false - about the current economy.
Elon Musk.
Hell in the UK we had the (ex?) host of MasterChef, Greg Wallace, accused of being inappropriate with women in the workplace and making them feel unsafe and uncomfortable around him - Nothing illegal (that I know of), sure, but enough that he was rightfully dropped from whatever broadcaster was employing him.
Cut to a week into the tabloid media meltdown, Greg claims he "thinks he's on the spectrum" as an explanation for his sexually explicit and creepy behaviour around women. The usual shit where you're neuro typical until you're a prick then you're actually an autistic smol bean uWu.
When that didn't help, he then showed his true colours by claiming the "typical" kind of woman (I'm assuming he's referring to the trope of "ugly" women complaining about sexual harassment) making the complaints that got him fired.
I was in a coffee shop a few years ago and a guy in line was wearing an O.G.R.E. shirt, a way old computer game from 1986.
I said "Nice shirt! Never played that game, though."
Completely delighted, he ranted about his love for the game until my order was ready. And it was a bit hard to get away from him afterward.
This is definitely someone who could've fallen into that category.
But I don't see it that way because I'm also neurodivergent and know people never engage with us like that. Might have made his day.
Just a little story from that borderline in the Venn diagram.
Sounds like you touched on their special interest. You almost certainly made their day, even if you felt a little awkward. I have autism and my special interest has changed several times, but that passion usually remains (especially if it lasted for a year or longer). It's taken my entire adult life to figure out when people no longer care
I didn't think anyone would have considered that asshole behavior. Annoying, maybe, but that doesn't come across as mean.
I think a better example would be something like a coworker saying "You said you'd send me that information yesterday" which can be interpreted as "hey can you send me that information you mentioned?" OR "hey fucko, you lied to me"
That's not asshole behavior. That's called autistic infodumping.
Basically autistic people get dopamine from talking about there special interests. It is like riding a roller coaster and sometimes it is hard to stop.
Seems like some users thought this thread was a free pass to question neurospicy folks legitimacy regardless of assholeishness. Cool lemmy.world, cool /s
It's because the phrase "neurodivergence" is an umbrella term. It's all but useless in the context given. That's a fact no matter how cool and breezy you are about people with disabilities.
I have an older brother with cerebral palsy - I know no other life than one that sympathizes with people with disabilities. I dedicated my life to helping children with disabilities. I have worked with children with cerebral palsy, autism, adhd, dyspraxia, downs syndrome, retts syndrome, ALS and many other conditions and brain injuries for a chunk of my life spanning over 20 years. I was treating them from before Ritalin was used to treat patients with ADHD (in England at least).
The term "neurodivergence" is not useful in the context it is used in here. Everyone is neurodivergent, and the terms popularity modern times has tweaked it to mean something else that is not clear. A social media "tag" used as an umbrella term is just that. It's not a diagnosis or an excuse because it's not one thing.
It is exactly like saying "i have fibromyalgia" - because that is also an umbrella term that leads to the question, "What does that mean in this context?"
The umbrella term "neurodivergence" includes both conditions that aren't an excuse and are an excuse for behaving like an asshole. Anyone can claim they are neurodivergent because they are. Therefore some people will use the term as an excuse for behaving badly no matter what their quirks are.
When they ramble on about something you don't care about or actively don't want to discuss, say "Hey I don't like this conversation, can we talk about something else?"
Yellow: "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable."
Red: "What? Why don't you wanna talk about this, is it because you secretly hate me or are hiding something? Now I know we need to talk about it until I'm convinced you're hearing what I have to say on this topic."When they ramble on about something you don't care about...
Or, hear me out, you could listen to them infodump because it will make them happy?
When I realize I'm dominating a conversation I will try to give other people space to talk and also let them know they can tell me to shut up. I won't take it too personally.
Even if you let them know they can say shut up whenever, they likely won't. The best bet is to do the first option all the time, because even with permission, most people still wouldn't do it though they may want to.
I have an overwhelming urge to shop now.
This meme brought to you by pɹɐɔɹǝʇsɐɯ
I guess MasterCard is either autistic or asshole now
Definitely asshole at the very least
I think a fair number of self-proclaimed "neurodivergent" folks just like it because: a) They think it's a free pass to be an asshole b) They think it indicates some sort of superpower with no downsides and that they are superior to "normal" people.
Knowing some clearly sincerely neurodivergent people I tend to be highly skeptical when people assert that status in an interaction where I wouldn't otherwise be able to tell.
Masking exists you know. Just because you can hide it doesn't mean there isn't more under the surface. This is more of a Autism thing but I think some ADHD people also mask.
You're right, but also there are still a ton of people that pretend or think they have some type of mental condition when in actuality they don't.
I have diagnosed OCD (by a medical professional) and I've only ever told about two friends in my entire life because the millions of gross people around the world that say they have OCD for the most normal fucking things that everyone In the world can relate to.
Somebody saying they have OCD is so fucking cringe to me now because of these morons that I'm scared to tell anyone even if I'm close to them.
So, for some honesty, I feel like there's been a culture of folks treating "neurotypical" almost like a slur, like "neurodivergent" means better and thus folks thinking they need a diagnosis.
I know someone that self-diagnosed as autistic and was very excited to "finally make it formal" and shopped for a therapist that was qualified to diagnose and had even diagnosed a friend of theirs as on the spectrum. They were so pissed when after a couple of months of sessions the therapist continued to decline to issue a diagnosis. They couldn't just be normal. I think most people I've heard personally declare themselves to be neurodivergent to be roughly in this camp.
I think popular internet culture is teaching people that a normal person has zero struggles with things like getting out of bed in the morning or being on time, and that if you have any whiff of not liking to do some unpleasant part of daily life then you are neurodivergent. It also tends to teach that neurodivergent people are smarter. I think this serves to dilute the reality of those with more serious issues. Similar to how a flood of "service animals" has diminished the experience of those with sincere need for them.
I'm ADHD and probably on the spectrum. Most of my friends are some level of both too.
There are still assholes who are also neurodivergent. I've met some. I avoid them. I will generally get along with other neurospicy people, especially if their combination is closer to my own, but an asshole is still an asshole.
That hasn't been my experience but the demographic I hang about still has some stigma associated with being ND, so they wouldn't "admit" to it unless it was relevant/apparent.
Curious if it's regional or age related.
For example, at work where there's a lot of 50+ people shaping the culture, I don't think ND would be seen as an asset.
However, to me those that grew up when Asperger's first hit the scene seemed more likely to treat it as "cool autism", and migrated over to "high functioning autistic" when the DSM ditched it as a distinct diagnosis. I seem to recall some commentary at the time that the Asperger's as a distinct diagnosis was more detrimental due to its popularity, and while formally the criteria for Asperger's versus Autism would be similar, there was a sense that people should be more reluctant to diagnose as autistic than they were to diagnose Asperger's.
I don't think ADHD ever enjoyed status as a "cool" diagnosis though, but certainly in the mid 80s was overdiagnosed in children.
I've been called an asshole many times. I think most people think I'm a nice person, but to the wrong person I'm a complete asshole. If I find out you support cops I'm suddenly the biggest asshole alive. If you're a capitalist? Guess what, asshole mode wants to turn on.
That's fine in echo chambers, but when you're in a diverse group? I had to learn social skills early on as a kid, and not every autistic child learns how to adapt to a social situation. I put my example as a hard truth: We can't applaud people being assholes to certain people and then be appalled when assholes remain assholes to those aren't the acceptable group of people to be an asshole to. If I want to remain socially acceptable around cop-supporters, I have to adopt different social 'postures' like respectfully disagreeing instead of calling them boo-tlicking piggies. My tolerance for respectful disagreement only lasts so long, though, when my under-the-breath stuff starts coming out and then I know I can't be around people if I want to be accepted.
What gets rewarded gets repeated.
I have, like, three stacks of neurodivergence, but I also have some sense of altruism and am aware of my limitations. So, in order to avoid imposing myself too much on people and ending up as an involuntary jerk, I just avoid interacting with others as much as possible, just in case.
I wish you would be friends with me instead
You do not have to be friends with anyone! :D
I thought what we had was special 😢
I try not to be an asshole.
The problem is I am direct and do not sugar coat things. I treat others how I would like to be treated which can be seen as rude. I make an effort to not be that way but it ends up the same.
FYI "not sugarcoating things" is the asshole's mantra for saying anything they want with callous disregard to how its received. Based on displayed attitude in your comment, I sincerely doubt you are as kind as you think.
I'm Autistic which means I tend to miss a lot of social context. It isn't a intentional behavior and I work pretty hard to think though if something might be offensive to someone. I don't like to upset or annoy others it is really bothers me if I upset someone. Most of the time I end up over thinking social interactions which leads me to just sit quietly and avoid talking.
I think this overlaps with neurotical v neurodivergent, but also "ask vs guess culture" can be a source of conflict
To an extent ya. You need to take responsibility for yourself. But also if I interrupt someone constantly that's not bc I want to
It's exactly why I do not present any of the mental psychological isms my therapist gave me to other people. I've seen loads of folks who pretty much brag about these things—using them as excuses to be shitty or negligent people with no attempt at learning or practicing social skills. I run like the wind anytime I hear someone brag or lament (usually just a backdoor brag) that they are "empathic" or "highly sensitive." I'm very cautious around people who bring up their "ADHD," "anxiety disorder" or "autism"—especially if they do it regularly, publicly (on social media), or very early upon meeting them. And don't get me started about personality disorders. I know people who are legitimately trying their best with all these things, but the genuinely responsible and aware folks seem to rarely wear those as kind of strange badges of identity.
It's funny, because a common symptom of ADHD is oversharing, especially early on in a relationship when it's less appropriate. This doesn't make them an asshole, of course.
And for me it's a way of communicating "hey, sometimes I'm gonna not think before speaking or lose attention mid conversation or something else, this isn't me intentionally being disrespectful and I am trying not to, but sometimes I'm gonna fail so please don't take it as a slight"
Yeah I've got plenty of issues but I manage to not be a dick, kinda feels like those are separate categories as far as the whole mental space goes.
If I had a nickel for every time someone says "this person's being a huge jerk to me but I think they might be neurodivergent"
Then I would have zero cents
Yeah, but how many nickels would you have?
As it turns out, also zero.
The trick is to divide by 5. The trick of that is double it and divide by 10.
Yeah I have two childhood friends that are brothers. Their other brother is very autistic. When we were kids a lot of people didn't understand autism enough to get that while yes, his autism did affect the way in which he was a tremendous asshole, it didn't cause it. He happened to have a shit personality and disability level autism
A business is not obligated to tear out every stairway to make a ramp because some of its users require a wheel chair. In the same vein, not every social interaction where a person who is neurodivergent (diagnosed or not) hurts the feelings of another person is necessarily them being an asshole. Another commenter said something about how intent matters. They're right. It does.
However it matters for both parties. It's situational and it's important to remember that a lot of social interactions involve misunderstandings because there is a lack of communication from both sides and a set of different expectations on both sides.
I don't necessarily think it's fair to view every social interaction through the light of who is the injured party. We don't do that to people with physical conditions. You wouldn't accuse a person in a wheel chair of being an asshole for having an expectation of accessibility. But that's because society as a whole has come to an understanding (by force) that accessibility for these physical conditions is important.
I don't think society has come to that realization about ND people, nor do I think that the average person looks at ND behaviors and adapts to them in a meaningful way.
So when people have an expectation based on Neurotypical behavior and a ND person doesn't meet that expectation, do they recalibrate at all to temper the expectations?
One of the commenters here gave an example about working with a ND person and the response the rest of their co-workers had to another person calling them out for it in a fit of anger. The thing is, it should not have gotten to that point. And it's not just because others should have been setting good boundaries in a healthy way about that behavior. It's also because they should have been tempering their expectations and not overcompensating for that ND person in an unhealthy way.
Part of the problems we're seeing between NT's and ND's have a lot to do with communication and an inability to compromise or at the very least try to find resolution in healthy ways.
The thing about the neuros is most of the time they don't know they're being assholes. The actual assholes do, and don't care. If you explain to a neuro they are being asshole they will almost always try to change
Some neuros are assholes but choice. It takes a lot of effort not to be an asshole sometimes.
Everyone is an amateur psychologist now
Preach
One more post for this thread and then protecting my energy. Topic of great passion, interest and survival for me.
You are not an asshole for protecting your energy from abusive behavior.
The following must not be confused with abusive/asshole behavior:
https://purrfurnax.tumblr.com/post/750391775364104192
Social Ostracization and Bannishment should be a last resort only.
We can do better with communal moderation and conflict resolution.
I reccomend the youtube channel AnRel to address some of the greater nuances
Also, this playlist is something i return to every so often: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaOxDnLZqNcmxxkuxTVxYnhrYEOeoTRjP
It's so hard to tell sometimes. Thinking of a bipolar chap I knew back when. Decent hang most of the time, but really thoughtless and possessive at other times.
I still think he was mostly a jerk. Mostly.
I had a friend that had a traumatic brain injury and almost lost his leg from an explosion in Iraq. They guy was a loose cannon, so I tried making sure he didn't do things that were to stupid. He would often run dilemmas by me, and I would talk it out so that he could make healthy choices. I could tell that he kind of looked up to me sometimes. I would hang out with him, give him regular guidance, paint a healthy path for him...but that was pointless. I was too powerless to help this guy. He just wanted to be stupid, drive drunk, run red lights, have ton's of one-night stands, get into bar fights, hustle money, do drugs, hangout with the wrong crowd, etc. I had to cut him off because he was trying to drag me down into that scene. One time in the middle of the day, I'm riding shotgun with this guy. Everything seems fine. Some guy cuts us off. He gets pissed and pulls out a pistol from the center console to show the guy that cut us off. I'm in the middle of the altercation begging for him to just move on. Luckily, the other guy backed down. The last time I hung out with him, he shows up at my house unannounced and says we're going out to have fun. My girlfriend gives me the approval. I get in the car with him, and he starts driving to I really don't know where. A light up ahead turns red, and about 3 seconds into it, we run it without stopping despite my warnings. I then realize this guy had been drinking. I can't remember how, but I either pulled an Irish goodbye or had my girlfriend pick me up. I never hung out with him again.
Years later, I heard he got married, bought a huge house in a fancy neighborhood, and had five kids. A few years after me drifting away from that entire social circle, a joint friend tells me they heard he was in a halfway house/rehab facility after beating his wife. Some people just can't function right even with supervision. It was a hard lesson. All things considered, I still feel bad for the guy. I believe he was a good guy deep inside, but needed more supervision than what I could provide as a friend. I hope he recovers for everyone's sake.
What he really needed was for his country to stop ignoring the true cost of sending troops into dangerous situations and for us to support him properly.
If we as Americans can’t take care of our soldiers once they’ve come home, then we can’t afford to be the world police. I’m thoroughly disgusted and ashamed of my government for allowing this situation to happen.
You are a good person for trying to help him, but realistically he needs constant support from professionals.
Being an asshole is occasionally a symptom of me not being consistent enough with my anxiety meds though unfortunately. But I'm generally really apologetic afterwards when I realize and it doesn't happen often and only for a few days typically.
Also You will always be a bad person in someone’s eyes, it’s unavoidable. Trick is to make this number small enough to still be accepted in social groups so you can attain the holy triad of Family, House, Health.
In other words - Get rid of witnesses
Easier to not be a shithead but u do u
Nah, getting rid of witnesses sounds easier
the point is there is always someone who will call you a shithead. It’s unavoidable fact of life
Jokes on you I don't have to be friends with anyone
One of the largest problems for a neurodivergent people is neurotypicals misunderstanding how they communicate and assuming that they are being an asshole simply based on how neurotypical people communicate or miscommunicate with each other.
Not understanding or playing into the neurotypical communication method of constantly lying by way of direction and expecting others to read between the lines often comes off as being an asshole or worse if they assume that you have unmentioned motives.
I'm pretty sure it is a symptom of BPD.
Neurodivergent people: Trying their best to fit into society
You: Fuck those assholes.
As someone who is neurodivergent and operates at an engineering level, when I'm under pressure I can sometimes be an asshole unintentionally. I try my best to recognize when I do this and apologize when I can. It's not something I can help. It's impulsive which means it's hard to control.
Here you are telling everyone that I am not deserving of compassion or understanding and should be written off as an asshole.
Do you know what it's like being neurodivergent? How people treat you when they find out? I now have to be on my best behavior at all times or I could get labeled an asshole and therefore deserve nothing according to you.
Sometimes mental illness is like having a stab wound in your gut and you have to act like everything is fine. It's not always possible in all situations.
To say this post lacks awareness is an understatement.
Man I got NPD and even I would find it weird for people to like me just because they know I have NPD like you don't gonna deal with the shit, if they can't help being assholes then step it up
Sorry but I don't understand what you are saying with your first point. Is your second point literally "you need to step up your mental illness game?"
Neurodivergence is not metal illness. You can not "cure" what is not broken. Trying to do so is what causes serious childhood trama. Neurodivergence is tied to communication differences and a differences in how the brain works.
For more information look up the double empathy problem.
Neurodivergence comes part and parcel with mental illness for some people. Depression is a mental illness that a lot of ND people suffer from. It has a direct effect on how we communicate especially when compounded by other ND traits like hyper focus or anxiety (the latter of which is also considred a mental disorder).
It's reasonable for someone who is ND to be experiencing mental illness that may compound behaviors that society as a whole doesn't condone.
I think a lot of people here found it a bit caustic. But I don't necessarily disagree with the point I think you might have been trying to make.
There's a line that's pretty easy to draw involving intent and behavior. However the actuality is the world isn't made for us and this is as much an accessibility issue as it is anything else.
This is pretty clearly demonstrated in the show House. There's at least one episode where House is in a wheel chair and he illustrates how he can use that wheel chair to get away with a lot of intentional behavior masked as accidental or otherwise unintentional. At one point I believe he even makes it clear it was intention and able bodied people give him a pass because "you wouldn't hit a guy in a wheel chair".
When people think each incident is unintentional they are more likely to be willing to compromise their irritation or boundaries. When they feel the incidents are intentional they feel righteously angry and are less likely to fall back on social norms. However they still generally default (for people with physical disabilities) to compromising their boundaries in order to be socially accepted or not look like the bad guy. This is part of the problem with the whole thing.
This is part of the problem with this discussion. The main assumption here is that each party is operating on the social norms laid down by NT people and nobody in the thread seems to be readily able to agree on what specific behaviors make you an "asshole" because it's subjective and ND do not generally have the same reference baseline for what is acceptable.
This is not making excuses. It's laying out facts.
There's a lot of anecdotes here in this comment thread. There's a lot of personal experience that is valid but does not necessarily equal the experiences of even a marginally reasonable subset of the population to make an analysis of what constitutes an "asshole", or what behaviors specifically are NT or ND.
But it seems we can mostly agree that deliberately using the condition of being neurodivergent as a shield for behavior we know is not acceptable is wrong.
The scale by which we measure that isn't decided by ND people though. It's decided by a society of mostly NT people. And because society by and large doesn't even necessarily acknowledge those differences and make boundaries based on facts and education rather than feelings we end up with this hodgepodge of badly enforced boundaries, unhealthy masking that does real damage, and under/overreaction.
But people still deserve empathy. That empathy doesn't mean you should abandon or alter your boundaries to accept unacceptable behavior.